Your Q4 sales strategy – with Anna Frapwell, Neon Digital Clicks

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:01

Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea to Life podcast. This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products, or if you'd like to create your own product to sell. I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly, practical advice, as well as inspirational stories from small businesses.

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Let's get started.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:27

Hello, today I'm so excited to invite Anna Frapwell back onto the podcast. Anna is the founder of Neon Digital Clicks, an e commerce growth agency. Their focus is on driving more profitable sales for babies, kids, and women's brands through meta, TikTok, Google ads, and email marketing. I've invited Anna back onto the podcast, and she did an episode about TikTok a while ago, which you should definitely go back and listen to because I really wanted to release an episode now for you about quarter 4. I know it's the summer, I know lots of us are going to be going away and taking some time off, but Anna has a really strong message around why we still need to continue with our business during that time and how what you can do in the summer can really affect, um, how you do in the last quarter of the year. So I really hope this is both inspiring and interesting, and I would love now to introduce you to Anna. So hi Anna, thank you so much for joining me again.

Anna Frapwell: 00:01:21

Hello. Thanks for having me on.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:24

So could you please just give a quick reintroduction to yourself, your business and what you do?

Anna Frapwell: 00:01:29

Yes, absolutely. My name's Anna and I run a digital marketing agency called Neon Digital Clicks. We're a full service digital marketing agency, so we work as growth partners really with e-commerce brands, and we take brands that are really serious about scaling and scale them up to kind of wherever they want to go, really. Um, and we do that through paid social, so Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, advertising, Google ads, and also through email marketing. And together, those three elements really support a brand to not only scale with new customer acquisition, but to also increase lifetime values as well.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:02:07

That's brilliant. Thank you. So we decided we'd have this chat now because we're heading into summer, which as we all know is typically quieter for retail. So what I'd like to ask you, first of all, is as we're going into summer, can we afford to just shut down and go on holiday and close the doors for six weeks? I already know the answer.

Anna Frapwell: 00:02:26

I knew you knew the answer. Yeah. I mean, no, I really, I know, I know that this is something that we have clients that said to us in the past, and we'll have kind of people that contact us and saying that they want to kind of hold their spot for getting into quarter four, but they don't particularly want to do anything over the summer. And my advice every single time remains the same, you know, the, those that continue to run ads, um, continue to do all of those great marketing exercises during the summer months are the ones that will win in quarter four. The ones that are winning in quarter four are the ones that haven't paused over the summer. If you pause over the summer, what will happen is you're making life harder for yourself when you get to September, October, because you're entering a space that's hugely competitive, but you're not, you're entering it where your competitors will have a much bigger edge over you. So you're going to have to work harder to get, can get cut through that, but also it's going to cost you more. It's going to, um, take more time. So, and if you're starting that in September, you really don't have time on your side either. So, um, yeah, answer to that is definitely a no. I'm not saying that you can't have a break over the summer. You can't relax a little bit. You can definitely do that, but I would be looking to um, outsource some of the stuff that you're doing or you need to do during the seven months so you can have that break or keep going. Um, and that's definitely the best advice if you want to have a great portfolio.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:04:01

That's so useful. Thank you. Yeah, I did kind of preempt the answer to that, because I think I might have told you, I have a similar conversation with lots of people who contact me and they say they want to start selling on Amazon because they're looking at Christmas, but they don't want to start, you know, getting set up until September. And I always panic when I hear that because the best time is over the summer, get all of the work, all the boring, because it's boring and tedious bits to get yourself set up and just put yourself in a really great position going into Q4. Whereas if you wait until September, October, in fact, October makes me sort of a bit shivering because it's way too late. It's um, yeah, it's, it is almost too late, which is an awful thing to say, but. But it's true. Um, I mean, ideally, Anna, what, what point should we be thinking about Q4? Because I mean, this is going out at the end of July. Um, and I know we have got, we've obviously got the summer, a summer ahead, but ideally should we be thinking even further ahead than this?

Anna Frapwell: 00:04:58

Yeah. So, I mean, we start having conversations with our clients or planting seeds about Q4 in quarter two. So we'll be saying, you know, let's. you know, have you had thoughts about what you're doing? Have you had thoughts about X, Y, Z? Because we can plan a lot ahead and we will always be building audiences to get things ready for quarter four. Um, and making sure that what we're doing in quarter two and quarter three is really setting you up for huge success in quarter four. Because as I've mentioned before, we know that that is the quarter that's the most costly. That's the quarter that's the most competitive. So what you need to be doing is starting as early as possible to put yourself in the best possible position for quarter four and making yourself like the most profitable you can be in quarter four, because there's no point having an amazing quarter four, if you're not having an amazing, profitable quarter four, and you know, these are things and strategies that can support you with having those great successes in that quarter.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:06:00

That makes sense. And when you're talking about advertising as well, something that I was thinking about is conversations I've been having with some of my clients about, and this is about Amazon advertising specifically, is that lots of people switch off their ads over the summer. You've probably seen the same. They think, oh, I'm going to go on holiday. I'm going to switch them off. But actually if you're still running ads, that gives you a massive advantage because there were less people doing it. And, um, The less competition and often it's a little bit cheaper as well. So I can't really see a reason not to do it, but talking about ads in specific, you know, specifically, is there anything that people need to be thinking about, um, when they're considering advertising over the summer? For example, if you've never done any advertising, is the summer a good time to start?

Anna Frapwell: 00:06:43

Yeah, I mean, I would, don't, if you've never done advertising, do not start your advertising in quarter four. Like there was so much testing, learning and optimization that needs to happen that you don't want to be doing all of that in quarter four, because that's just going to make things really, really challenging for yourself. So if you're new to advertising, don't, don't think, sit on it and think I'll start that in quarter four. Absolutely not. Um, but actually when it comes to advertising, you're, you're right. You know, there's so many opportunities in the summer that people are missing out on if they pause their ad spend, but also, you know, you're not a well oiled advertising account, uh, you know, whether that's Google, whether that's Facebook, whether that's, um, TikTok. It's well oiled because it's constantly being running and it's because it's constantly learning. It's because it's constantly optimizing. So you can't expect an ad account to have been switched off for a month, two months, and then go straight back in in quarter four doing exactly what you want it to do. It constantly needs to be oiled, maintained, optimised. And there are certain strategies that we'll deploy over the summer if we're kind of pulling back on things that will make sure that that account is continuing, continually being well oiled. Um, my advice is always carry on going for those optimizations and what we've often conversations that we've had with clients is yes, okay, your your return on ad spend might well take a hit during the summer months, you know, your cost per acquisition may well go up. We're always making sure that that happens in a profitable way. So we're not, you know, in a place where clients are losing money, but you might have to take a hit on some of those metrics. But actually, in the long run, you're going to be in a much, much better place. Um, and I think that's, what's really important is that not looking at how things are working for you month by month, week by week is actually, okay, so in the next six months, what do we want to achieve and how, what's the path to getting there?

Vicki Weinberg: 00:08:47

That makes sense. I guess what you're saying is you can put in the groundwork in the summer to set yourself up to have a really great rest of the year.

Anna Frapwell: 00:08:55

Yeah, and I mean, if you're building audiences over the summer, and you're, you're attracting cold audiences, people have never heard about you, you're planting those seeds, you're getting your brand out there, you're creating that awareness. If all that's happening over the summer, it's going to be a lot cheaper to retarget those people in quarter four than it is to go out and try and find new people in quarter four when you're up against everyone else is also doing the same thing.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:09:21

That makes sense because even if people might not buy from you over the summer, because as we all know, retail does always hit in the summer. I guess just being on someone's radar means that when they do start purchasing a game, whether it's Christmas or whether it's something else, they already know about you and they might consider you. Yeah, um, yeah.

Anna Frapwell: 00:09:38

And what's happening as well during that time is that you're, you're sending learning signals back to your ad accounts. So, you know, all of those learning signals are helping to optimize your accounts so that you know, not only are you able to retarget those people, but that your accounts are optimized so that they actually work better for you, for want of a better word, when you get into quarter four. So everything is going to work in a much better way than it would be if you just said, okay, let's have the summer off. Let's start in September. And this isn't about what I want to be really clear about. This isn't about fear mongering or making people panic and any of those kinds of things. It's actually just being really strategic in your business and actually thinking about things from a long term perspective, rather than a kind of short term quick wins perspective, because you know, that's, that is never going to be the right way to manage things ongoing.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:10:34

That makes sense. Thank you. So as well as, I guess, keeping things going and sort of running our businesses over the summer as much as we can, and maybe taking breaks here and there, what are some of the proactive things we need to be doing now if we want to make consistent sales during quarter four?

Anna Frapwell: 00:10:50

Yeah, so I'd be looking at your seasonality, your product mix. What is it that you know, making sure that you really look into the history of your numbers, the history of your product mixes. What is it that sells during the summer months? What is it that doesn't sell during the summer months? Can you be doing something strategically on your website with bundles and offers and things like that so that you are not just coming up with ideas because you think they're a great idea? They might well be, but actually utilizing the historical data that you have at, you know, your fingertips and actually working out what will be the best route forward over the summer based on that historical data. The other thing that I would be doing is really looking at your conversion rate and looking at whether there's areas that you can optimise things so that, again, it's not just about keeping things optimised on an ad account, it's actually keeping things optimised on your actual storefront as well, your online storefront, so that, again, when you go into quarter four, you're going in with a really good baseline and a really strong foundation. The other thing I would be looking to do is building your email list. So making sure that you've really been kind of gathering as many emails as you can during that period so that you've got that email list to retarget when you go into quarter four as well. So there's so many things. That you can do during those months to put yourself in a really strong position.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:12:11

That's brilliant. Thank you. And you mentioned email lists there. Are there any, and I'm sorry, because I'm going to get all the advice out of you that I can Anna, are there any practical things you can suggest to us for building up an email list? Because I know lots of people want to have an email list and it's on the to do list, but let's say, um, let's say someone's listening and they don't have a list and they haven't really made much of a start. What, what, what can they do? Because I think you're right. Summer could be a great time to focus on that. Particularly when things were a little bit quieter.

Anna Frapwell: 00:12:39

Yeah, so I mean, first thing you need to do is make sure that you choose your platform. We always recommend Klaviyo. It's just hands down the best platform for email marketing for e commerce businesses. The functionality, the segmentation, all of those kind of things are brilliant with Klaviyo. But whatever platform you choose to use, make sure that you have your essential flows in place and that you have a really good welcome series. You've got an abandoned cart series. You've got a browse abandonment, um, that you've got a thank you series and even a win back series. So they're the kind of flows, the automations that I would make sure that you had in place. Um, once you've done that, then it's about how do you get those people on your email list and how do you build that email list? You can try and do it organically. You can share the landing page to your, sorry, the signup page and through your organic channels. Um, making sure that, because that's the other thing with the email is, no longer can you put a sign up to our emails pop up on your website and have the expectation that someone is just going to part with their email address because you've asked for it, or because you're going to send them news or information. You really do have to look at it as an exchange between two people. And they're giving you something that's really highly valuable to you and your business. So what are you going to give them in exchange? And usually that is a discount. So think about that discount. How much can you offer? Profitably in exchange for an email, which could be really highly valuable to you. Um, and then in terms of growing that email list, there's lots of things you can do. Like I mentioned, you can do that organically. We always, with most of our clients have ads running to signups for emails, which you can do actually on Facebook so you can get people to sign up on Facebook to your email list rather than them leaving Facebook so it can all integrate with that sign up form. Um, so yes, there's lots of different strategies, but that's something I'll definitely be focusing on.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:14:36

That's so useful. Thank you. And, um, I'm going to ask a similar question about ads, if you don't mind, which is again, maybe someone hasn't run any ads before, maybe even a bit, a bit nervous about ads. So I guess I have two questions. One is, is the summer a good time to start advertising if you've never done any, um, what would be a few good first steps, please?

Anna Frapwell: 00:15:02

Yeah. So summer's definitely a good time. Like I mentioned before, it's cheaper. You're, it's a less competitive space when you start running ads and actually the whole time you're ever running ads, you must always look at it as a place where you're going to be testing and optimizing. You can't, you know, there's never a situation where you've created in that campaign, and you just, that's it, you're done. You don't have to look at it again. You don't have to optimize it again. You don't have to test things because things fatigue, things change, audiences change, appetite changes, all sorts of things change. So testing is a great thing to happen during the summer months. Um, I would, if you're an e commerce store, which if you're listening to this, you're highly likely you're an e commerce store. If you're an e commerce store, I wouldn't really do anything other than optimising your ad campaigns for conversions, because at the end of the day, it's sales that you want. Um, and I'd have to think about what is affordable testing budget. As an agency, we will always say that we need a bare bare minimum of 50 a day, 50 a day as a testing budget. Um, because without that kind of spend and actually the more you can put towards the testing budget, the better, because the faster you'll learn and the faster you'll get that data and the quicker you can make decisions and make changes. But without that kind of spend, you're not, you're not giving Facebook enough to work with. It needs, it needs data in order to optimize and in order to feed back to you what's working, what's not working. And if you, I sometimes say it's like filling a bath, you would never fill a bath with like the tap dripping. Just turn the taps on and fill the bath quickly so that you can get in, have your bath. You know, it's not, if you, if you turn the taps on dripping on a Facebook ad campaign, it's just going to take you a really long time to get any answers.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:16:51

That's really useful to know. Thank you. Because I would have, if you hadn't said that, I would have guessed that you would have said, oh, you don't need to spend much money and see how it goes. But it does make more sense that I guess if you have a smaller budget, it's going to run out sooner.

Anna Frapwell: 00:17:07

Yeah, definitely. And you just won't, you'll end up wasting that money, really, because you just won't earn enough. And what ads do is they will shine a spotlight on your business. The minute you start paying for traffic to land on your website, you are shining a massive spotlight on your business. And now that spotlight might just illuminate everything and everything's fantastic. And you drive loads of conversions and isn't life wonderful? Or that spotlight could actually... show up all the cracks in your business, all the things that need plugging, all the areas that need improving. And actually that's also a good thing. It's not a negative thing because that's a good thing because you've then got the knowledge and the intel to plug those gaps ahead of quarter four. is it that your conversion rate needs improving? Is it that there's an issue with, um, a dropout between, dropout, sorry, between ad to cart and, you know, that actual final conversion? Is it that people are dropping off and they're not spending long enough looking around your website? Why is that? You know, is it that your product descriptions need improvements? So ads are not just about sales, they're actually an, an, a way to very quickly assess the performance of your site and then plug those gaps, make those changes, optimize faster and get quicker results.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:21

That makes total sense, Anna. And again, I think the summer is a really great time to sort of dive into all of this. I've just recorded an episode myself this morning, which is specifically about Amazon and what metrics to look at and how to work out similar to what you've been saying, if there's an issue somewhere. So, you know, you're not converting well enough. And, um, I won't go into all of the details here, but basically looking at, I believe that the summer is a great time because things are traditionally a bit quieter.

Anna Frapwell: 00:18:47

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:48

To kind of do some of the work that you just might not get around to later in the year, because hopefully you're going to be super busy for filling orders.

Anna Frapwell: 00:18:55

And that's the thing, during the summer, your, um, your spend is going to go a lot further than if you start trying to do these things in quarter four.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:19:06

That's so helpful. So is there anything else, Anna, that you want to tell us, share with us, or recommend, um, when we're thinking about getting set up for a great Q4?

Anna Frapwell: 00:19:17

Um, no, I think the most important thing is to not plan to go into quarter four, you know, on the 1st of September and expect to have your best quarter four ever, you know, you, that planning starts now, or it should have happened months ago and, and again, as I mentioned, it's not a case of kind of worrying people or fear mongering, whatever, but you've got the opportunity right now to put things in place to have the best quarter for, and whether that is that you're going to focus on building your email list, or SMS messaging. I mean, that is huge. You know, don't neglect SMS messaging as a channel to reach your customers. If you kind of have SMS messaging, um, as an option and you're gathering telephone numbers and emails, and then you head into quarter four and you maybe have a Black Friday offer, being able to get that SMS, an email and a Facebook ad is going to extend your chances of actually making conversions and cutting through all the noise that's happening. So, you know, it's really important to make sure that you've got those foundational elements in place that you are testing, optimizing and putting yourself in the best possible position come quarter four to have a really successful, profitable quarter.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:20:36

That's really helpful. Thank you, Anna. And I really like, I think the overall positive message that I'm taking here is that you can listen to this episode today or even in the next couple of weeks and still have plenty of time to put yourself in a really great position.

Anna Frapwell: 00:20:50

Definitely, definitely. And I think, you know, if you want the summer off, think outsourcing, get someone in to do it. And, and we all know that, as business owners actually, you know, focus on what is your, you know, special skill, what you're great at, greater and outside the, outsourcing elements that you may be not so great at, because actually that's going to drive your business forward faster.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:21:11

That's really helpful. Thank you. And thank you for everything you've shared. This is really such a useful episode. I really hope everyone listens to it soon and has plenty of time to put all of this into action. Thank you, Anna.

Anna Frapwell: 00:21:24

Brilliant. Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:21:32

Thank you so much for listening right to the end of this episode. Do remember that you can get the full back catalogue and lots of free resources on my website, vickiweinberg. com. Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful. Thank you again and see you next week.