Why your product needs to be on Amazon – with Cara Sayer, Snooze Shade

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:08

Welcome to the, Bring Your Product Ideas To Life Podcast, practical advice, and inspiration to help you create and sell your own physical products. Here's your host Vicki Weinberg. Today I am talking to Cara Sayer from SnoozeShade. Cara is an inventor and an entrepreneur. She created her first product back in 2008. In 2014 she decided to sell her products on Amazon. And that was a real turning point for her business. Cara shares everything with us in this conversation, right from the really, really early days up into what she's doing with SnoozeShade right now is a fascinating conversation. Um, Cara is really candid, really honest. We cover all kinds of topics. Um, specifically we do talk a bit about selling on Amazon. So if that's what you're interested in, this will be a great episode for you. Um, but regardless of where you are with your products business, I think you'll find this a really interesting conversation. So I'd love to introduce you to Cara. This is going to start recording.

Cara Sayer: 00:01:06

Got it.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:07

Okay. So I'm going to start by asking you to introduce yourself, your business and your products, and we'll take it from.

Cara Sayer: 00:01:13

Okay. I'm CaraSayer. Um, I invented SnoozeShade, which is now the world's bestselling range of baby sun and sleep shades.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:24

Oh, thank you so much for that Cara. So can we talk a little bit about the first of all we'll thank you for being here. And, um, can we talk a little bit about creation of SnoozeShades, so why and how it came about and should go right back to the early days.

Cara Sayer: 00:01:37

Yeah, well it's early days cause um, my daughter is now 14, big years old and is nearly as tall as me. In fact, she keeps telling me she's taller, but I don't believe her. Um, and I shall hang on to that like quarter of an inch that I've got on her for as long as I possibly can. But at the time I, um, was, uh, so I had, I was pregnant with my daughter in 2007 and I had her at the end of October, 2007. Um, and, uh, I, and I can't remember the exact timings, um, but I. So, uh, so I was in a wheelchair when I was pregnant. Um, so I couldn't walk. And when I got back out of the wheelchair and started walking again, it was around sort of January, February, 2008. Um, and so I was out and about all the time and I used to do things like putting a blanket over the pram or my coat over the pram to keep her warm. Um, I would then suffer because I'd either be freezing or the coat or pram blanket would fall off and then you'd get mud all over it and the pram would roll over it, et cetera. Um, and then the seasons changed. And, uh, so we were out and about, and it was sunny and I wanted something to use to protect from the sun, but I also wanted something to help her sleep because, um, sleep was very important. It's very important to me. I think probably genetically I'm not sure she's my child now because she doesn't like sleep as much as I do, but maybe that's become later. Um, but, um, yeah, so I wanted something to help her sleep as, and when, so I, I, I remember, I think, and I think it must've been mid 2008. You know, six months old. And I had a group of friends, maybe we all went out for lunch and we all sat there and everyone sort of fed their babies. And then everyone did the same thing. They put a pashmina over the pram, they put a blanket over the pram, they put whatever they could find muslin, et cetera, the pram, trying to encourage baby to go to sleep. And I just thought, this is ridiculous. Surely there must be a product out there. That's like a blackout blind, but for the buggy, the pram, rather than the windows that we were all used to. And, um, so I don't know why it's really strange that people would say to me, you know, why, why did you do it? I really don't know why I did it. I just felt like it was sort of a calling if you know what I mean, or I was just really bored. I think. Really bored. Cause I'd had quite a sort of high-powered career before I had my daughter and I was quite bored at home. And I think I sort of was looking for something to do. That would be a hobby, a slightly bigger than a hobby now, obviously didn't realize that when I started. Um, but, um, anyway, so I sort of developed a prototype, which I now know would have been completely wrong. Um, and then I found a manufacturer and this is way back, like 2008, 2009, uh, way before the days of all the help that you get nowadays with sort of setting up, you know, e-commerce businesses, Amazon businesses and all the rest of it. So I managed to find somebody who manufactured in China and I actually still work with them now, uh, 11 years on. Um, and then I went to a, um, so basically er I then dropped it dropped it, picked it back up, dropped it, picked back up. And then there was a trade show that was happening at Excel in London, uh, which was a baby products association show. And I thought, well, do I go on Dragon's Den where I could get potentially laughed off TV, which could be embarrassing, or do I go somewhere like this show? And they had an area which was called the innovation zone, which was all about new products. And I thought, well, you know, I'll meet people who might be a bit more useful in terms of meeting re who would cause obviously in this stage and remember we are going back 10, 10 plus years, and e-commerce, wasn't where it is now. And it has changed a lot even in the last five years. Um, and so I just thought, well, you know, that's why I'm going to meet retailers and see what they think is a good idea for a product. Because if they think is a good idea, then they're going to know more than I am because I'm one mum, but they might know lots of parents and think, oh yeah, that, that would be something that would sell. So I went to the show. Completely hysterical went with my mom. Um, you know, I had a bird poo on my pram hood, which my mum spent a lot of time trying to get off. Uh, actually baby wipes are very lethal, like getting everything off here, but apparently it seems, I didn't know how we use them on baby's bottoms, but it also gets bird poo off pram hoods, just FYI. Um, and, um, you know, and I'm an ex event organizer. So I'm used to doing on putting on very professional displays, forget that I went super low key. It was all sort of pick, you know, A3 pieces of printed paper and whatever. So I'm very much a fan of, um, just get on and do something because if you sit there waiting for perfection, if I'd sat and waited for everything to be perfect, I hadn't even finished the prototype. I mean, I took the prototype with me and I was still sewing the straps on, in the middle. And so I shown people this product getting, oh yes, new, lovely product, high quality. And then as I did that, one of the straps would ping off and I'd be like, oh, except for that strap, which I sewed on. So just ignore that, you know, before it goes into manufacture. Um, so, um, yeah, and I, and I got, uh, JoJo Mama Bebe signed up straight away, wanted a couple of hundred units. And I had a couple of other interested that retailers and people who said yes, and then I signed up John Lewis and then I signed up Mothercare and, you know, and then it just kind of grew from there really. And so I went off and, um, ordered 10,000 units, uh, based on the fact that they'd never been a product like this before in the world. Um, and I had no idea like what it was going to sell. But what I did was I just sort of looked at the numbers and I said, right, well, there's three quarters of a million babies born in the UK every year. I think it's gone down recently actually. But that's what was, that's what it was at the time. And I thought, well, even if I just sell to like 1%, like to seven and a half thousand babies, um, then you know, surely I must be able to do that. Even if I end up like, And I was like, Ooh, investing. And then it was actually slightly cheaper if I order 10,000 units. So I don't know why I should've just, now I wouldn't do it, but at the time I was like, oh, well, if it's cheaper, I must buy more. Um, so anyway, I bought this 10,000 units and then I was walking up and down my corridor late at night, sweating and crying and all the rest of it because I've put all this money into a product that I didn't even know if it was going to sell. And then my mum was like, well, worst case scenario, darling, is that we'll just go and, um, go and sell it at car boot sales. So I was like, okay. Um, and I think, you know, that's, the other thing is sometimes we do get a little bit overwhelmed by what we're doing. And there is usually, you know, there's usually a backup plan somewhere and okay you know, if I'd have sold them a car boot sales, I would still have probably made a bit of a profit, you know, but not as much of one. And I probably wouldn't have drove a program to have lost all the money either as it turns out I sold the first 10,000 in about the first sort of only. Oh, I only went on sale in March, 2010 and I think had sold out by about September. So, um, you know, actually, as it turned out, 10,000 was the most sensible amount to order. Um, but, um, you know, you live and you learn and you, and you learn these things really.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:08:03

Thank you so much for all of that. I've got so many followup questions. Um okay. Let's start with those initial 10,000. Did you sell those were they, were they all sort of retailers or some of those you selling them?

Cara Sayer: 00:08:15

But what I also did, and this is why I also suggest people do, um, and I learned this actually from a friend of mine who runs a very successful baby business. And she told me this at a show, it was really interesting actually. Um, and I was at this trade show, not trade show. It was a baby show at the NEC in Birmingham. And I had, um, a new product coming out and she said, take the money now. Right? Take the money. And then you can always refund it. Um, she said, but if you don't take the money in general, what I was doing is I was just asking people for their details and then I'd let them know. But the problem is people know, then they'll probably be too lazy or they'll be, oh, I don't, I don't need it now. Whereas if you get them at the time, when they want to buy it, get their money off them. So I did that. Initially, what I did is I, my website went up in, uh, I think that's September, 2009, and I had a waiting list for products, uh, for people, uh, customers who wanted to buy it from me direct. Um, and I think I had about, you know, 150 people or something, and I converted a lot of them, but obviously remember this is a very unique product at the time. Um, and, um, but now retrospectively, I'd say if you're going to launch, you know, it's easier to take the money. Keep it on one side, please don't spend it. Like, that's what I would say. Um, in the event that you need to refund, it don't go mental. Um, but at the same time, it's much easier to keep people in the loop and let them know if that, like, even recently, obviously with all the crap that's going on with like shipping left right and center, you know, I've just had products where I've been out of stock for like six weeks and I've had to fly products in and all sorts. And so therefore I, I do pre-orders so people pay up front and then I'm constantly communicating with them to say, okay, we've had another delay, but then I'm always as well ending that with. But if you want to refund right now, tell me not a problem. We'll refund you immediately. So there's never any concern for the customer, from the customer they're not going to get their money back somehow. Um, and I think that's what most people worry about is that, you know, they, they pay for something. It doesn't arrive. And then actually no one, they don't hear from anyone from the company. Two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, five weeks, six weeks, because yes, it's on pre-order but people like to know that you're thinking about them. So I'm a big one about communicating with your customers. So I communicate a lot with my customers. In fact, I've just set up a whole, like post-purchase customer journey, um, for all my website customers, and I've got four websites around the world. Um, and, um, you know, they're, they're very personalized, but they're very much me, my personality as well, lots of GIFs, lots of cat GIFs and Friends GIFs, but, um, you know, but, but the thing is people like I've even had one lady. It was so funny. She literally, she was waiting for a product and because I wasn't very good at the technical stuff, I'd actually set this post-purchase thing off and she was on pre-order and she was like, oh my God, I just love all the messages. I've never seen anything like it before. It's great. And I was like, oh, thanks. But you know, little things like that, people underestimate how important it is to kind of be in touch with your customer and sort of get on your customer's wavelength from where they're coming from, which is not about you selling to them about, about why they should buy from you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:17

Yeah. And obviously your product solve a real problem as well. So I think the other thing, yeah, coming back to these 10,000 orders, which I hope you don't mind that that's massive. That is a massively scary number.

Cara Sayer: 00:11:29

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:30

I'll ask these two questions together because I think they might be linked. Um, so what I'm interested to know, because I think people want to know this, um, and if you don't want to answer, do you say as well, because that was fine. Um, but how did you manage to fund 10,000 units and. Did you have orders from retailers at that point and had they sort of paid for,

Cara Sayer: 00:11:47

well, I didn't have orders per se. I'd had interest and I'd had JoJo Maman Bebe had placed an order or told me they were going to place an order and they could have pulled out and retailers do. Um, but I think I had ordered for a couple of hundred, um, and the reason I was able to fund it actually is it's not a good story in some ways, but I worked for an ex friend of mine and I was doing business development for her while I was pregnant and she didn't pay me. Um, and it took me like nearly two years to get the money out of her. And by the time, and actually, because, because of the fact that she hadn't paid me, I was saving the money in a separate bank account to ensure that I got the full amount because I kind of knew she might try and be a bit shady. And actually that's what funded like, you know, everything happens for a reason. That's what funded the first, uh, I spent, I think it was at the time it's about 30,000, so it was 30,000 pounds. Um, and, um, and I put my own money in, um, it was my, my money, my savings. Um, it was quite a big risk, I suppose, but, you know, um, I suppose, I mean, I suppose I. I not that I could afford to lose it. Cause I was, I couldn't necessarily, but I, I suppose my attitude was a bit different with that money because I'd lived without it for several years. Just, I mean, because of the fact that I owed to me and I'd done the work and then I hadn't been paid for it. So maybe it had it been money I'd had for longer, I might have thought harder about it, but it just seemed a good idea at the time.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:13:07

Clearly it paid off.

Cara Sayer: 00:13:09

Well, it has done yeah. In, in, in spades, but, um, you know, it's, it's not something, I mean, I always hear about, I hear about, I mean, I knew somebody who God, I mean, they were like, remortgaging their house and doing all sorts of things to fund their business. And I, I'm always very nervous about things like that. I mean, I would never jeopardize my overall financial security in life in order to fund something like that. I mean, I, not that I could afford to lose the money, but if it had gone, it wouldn't have like destroyed me. So, you know, that was the difference. Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:13:38

And it sounds also, like you say, your products at the time was really unique. You clearly had a lot of faith in your products as did others. I mean, it sounded like at this trade show you did remarkably well considering you had a prototype that you've said wasn't, you know, a hundred percent. So what is it you think that?

Cara Sayer: 00:13:53

It wasn't actually finished. I ended up adding extra details to it anyway. So I mean, it wasn't even, they didn't even sell it. Hadn't got any final packaging or anything. I mean, you know, it was literally just this prototype with the, with the, um, the pingy straps.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:14:05

And what was it you think that sort of, you sounds like you did really well at that trade shoe. So what do you think about that attracted so many retailers? I mean, do you think it was you, do you think it was a uniqueness of the product? A bit of everything.

Cara Sayer: 00:14:15

I think it's a bit of everything. I mean, obviously I know it's hard to believe. I ha I think I have got quite a personality on me. Um, I did actually, win I think it was nursery industry personality of the year award in like 2011, I think, um, mainly cause I just go around getting very drunk and messing around with people I think. And, um, but, um, but, um, No. I think what it is is also I don't like selling. Um, so I tend to chat to people and I don't. I know, and I wasn't really, and also I think the other thing that was interesting is I wasn't, I always say this to people when you, if you're going with something new don't sell, ask. Right. Because I didn't try. I mean, I wasn't really so much interested in selling cause I hadn't actually got a finished product, so I didn't feel like I could sell per se. And my objective of going to that show was research and it was to find out whether or not like, was it well priced? In fact, I mean, I actually ended up putting the price up after I attended that show because the original price that I'd put it, um, I was going to put it on. It was actually too cheap and people said, oh, it sounds, I didn't put it on at that price. Cause I probably wouldn't have like, but still I would still be in business, but I'd put the price up. But you know, and that's the other thing you can adjust prices just because of the fact that, you know, if something doesn't work, it doesn't mean you can't. I mean, I adjusted some of my prices this year. I adjusted some of my prices last year. I tend to be quite. Slow, but I don't, I don't, I tend to literally just go, right. I'm changing the price from this, to this. Um, and then that's it. And then I see if it really hits the product and whether or not it's slows down sales, and if it doesn't slow down sales, then it's fine. And I do try and be practical. I mean, my main product, the bestseller that note that the range is known for has stayed £19.99 since I launched it. And I launched it in 2010. So it's been the same price for 11 years. Um, now obviously the cost of manufacturing that product have gone up. Um, but I still feel that that is a good price point for that product. I still make enough margin on it and I'm quite happy with that. Yeah. So, um, you know, I think it's probably, um, you know, and I've always sort of chatted and I don't stalk people. I mean, I was telling somebody the other day there was a particular retailer I really wanted to get into and I just used to chase them down the aisles at trade shows. I think he was quite scared of me at various points, um, and used to run away. I got himin the end

Vicki Weinberg: 00:16:28

Persistence definitely pays off.

Cara Sayer: 00:16:30

It can do. I think as long as it's persistence with a smile, um, and also be prepared to be rejected, be prepared to be turned away and don't get nasty about it. I'm I'm, you know, I was like, ok fine no problem. I am going to come back and I'm going to try you again, you know, just be warned, you know? So, cause I, I said, I believe that my product is absolutely spot on for your customers and I wouldn't be chasing it if I didn't believe that. So, you know, I'm not doing it just to make a sale, I'm doing it because I genuinely think that it will add to like, you know, the range of products that you offer. So I think having that passion behind what you're doing and that true belief, rather than just doing it, kind of for the money.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:17:05

Yeah, absolutely. And also your product genuinely, geuinely helps people. And I can say I had a SnoozeShade. It was one of the best things I brought when my first child was born. And then I use it for my second child. It was probably one of the longest running items that I had. Cause my, you know, they slept in the pram for quite a long time and is a product that solves a need because my children would not sleep in the prom unless it was completely dark. It had no stimulus coming from outside. So this isn't a sale. This isn't an ad, but yeah, it does. It really, it really does solve for me. And I think if you've got that faith in your products that actually this, you know, this is something that'll be useful for people, as opposed to just trying to sell it to make money. And obviously there's nothing wrong with trying to make money, but I think that's possibly the difference is that you knew you had something that solved a need for customers.

Cara Sayer: 00:17:53

I hoped it did. So in the early days, I didn't know that you see, this is the thing because I hoped it did. And I'd used it with my own daughter and I've seen other people using them. And, and obviously we've got the most, really fabulous reviews and all the rest of it. And, you know, actually, you know, it is, it's quite logical, which is that, you know, when you have children and you take them out and I've always said this, you know, we take babies out and we expect them to sleep wherever they are. Well, if they're in a busy playground or in a restaurant and you know, children are also in get babies, particularly, um, get knocked out of sleep cycles by what they see, because they can't go into REM if they're, if, and if they're stimulated and it takes like three seconds or something for them to be stimulated to a point where they can't go back to sleep. So what I do and I jokingly say this, but it's true. I bore babies to sleep because there's nothing interesting for them to look at and it's not scary blackout either, but it is dark enough to help them go to sleep. Um, but I didn't really know that. And I would say it probably took me a good few years to be genuinely confident. I'd probably say about five years actually. Um, to be kind of, and I think that's, I don't know whether it's a female thing. I think it might be, I think women are less in terms of being very bullish about, you know, what this does and what this doesn't do. And I like to prove everything. So I like to test, I mean, I, you know, I, I safety tests to the extreme, um, I've, I've done tests that nobody else would do. Um, you know, because I like to be able to say, well, I've tested it for that. And I know it doesn't do it. Um, whereas some people would just be happy to sort of say, oh, well it's passed general safety tests. That's not good enough for me because, you know, so I always sort of think, as I said, I always try and come from it from a sort of parent's perspective. What, what does the parent worry about? What does the parent want to know? But it has now I would actually confidently say a hundred percent, you know, obviously no product suits every child, cause that's just not possible, no product suits every person, but I think I've sold enough of them now and got enough reviews to know that it does what it says on the tin. You know, it helps them sleep. So, you know, for me that is really genuine and every single time I get a message on Instagram or Facebook or a review on the website, review on Amazon, whatever saying, you know, this has been a game changer, it's a lifesaver, you know, can't believe, I didn't know about this, my first child, you know, blah, blah, blah. It honestly, I genuinely every single time I love it. I, I, you know, it's just so satisfying to think I've helped yet. Another person. Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:20:16

Yeah, absolutely. And coming back to what you were saying about not being sure at the beginning that it works, did you do much testing the, in the early days in research or what was it, or, you know, did you try it out at the time?

Cara Sayer: 00:20:28

I didn't do the testing on with the sleep actually. I mean, obviously all safety features have been tested

Vicki Weinberg: 00:20:32

of course.

Cara Sayer: 00:20:33

Um, but now I didn't really think about it. I mean, I really didn't. Um, because I mean, I had, I gave out samples to people to try and things like that. Yeah. You know, I might've given out, you know, say 20 samples or something. And then who knows, I might have just had 20 people who had good sleeping babies, you know? Um, but I think it was because of the logic behind it, if you know, what I mena and I'm quite logical person. And so, as I say, for me, it was quite logical that it should work. Um, so the biggest challenge was to get it, to fit all prams and push chairs. So I spent many, a happy day in Mothercare in my local Mothercare in Weybridge, where they thought they call me the mad shade lady. Cause I'd sort of come in and I'd have Holly with me who was a little, two, three year old at the time. She'd be squishing around playing with all the toys and I'd be standing Yeah. And then I'd just be like trying it on another buggy, trying on another buggy, trying on another. That was the thing I worried about more was the fact that it wouldn't fit a buggy and then I'd be like, right. You know, it can't be universal fit. And I think that's the other thing you have to. Realize a bit, like what I said, there's no product that will suit everybody. You know, there will be some buggies, which it not necessarily won't fit, but people might not work out, but it does fit. And I get people now even now going, oh, it didn't fit this buggy. I'm like, I know it fits that buggy. I fitted it on that buggy, but they, for whatever reason haven't worked out. Um, so I still call it universal fit. Cause it is, you know, and I can make it, I can make it fit most things, you know?

Vicki Weinberg: 00:21:55

Yeah. Well, thank you for that. Um, and we've talked a lot about the early stages of your business. Should we talk a little bit about the turning point? So why it came and what happened there?

Cara Sayer: 00:22:05

Sorry, what do you mean in what, in what way turning point?

Vicki Weinberg: 00:22:08

Um, was there a stage in your business where things sort of wish things change?

Cara Sayer: 00:22:12

Oh yeah. Um, yeah, so in 2014 I was getting divorced. Um, and I realized that, um, you know, as much as I love my ex-husband and I do very deeply, he's one of my best friends. Uh, I wasn't going to get a penny. Um, so I had to either makes SnoozeShade work very hard for me to, in order to be able to support me and my daughter or go and get a job. Now I'm probably pretty unemployable at this point, I think really. Um, and so I thought, well, you know, the business was looked like superficially, like it was doing very well. I was doing sort of mid six figures, but the profit margin wasn't brilliant. I mean, it wasn't awful, but it wasn't brilliant. And, um, I certainly don't think I could have afforded to sort of actually genuinely live like on it quite comfortably. Um, So, um, I started looking away around what, what, where I was losing money and I was fine primarily it was the old bricks and mortar distributor route. And because you have, when you sell to a distributor, you have to give them a really, really massive margin because they've then got to sell to a retailer who wants their 50% margin. And therefore you end up making like a pound on an item. So imagine if you want, if you want to make a hundred thousand, you've got to split, you've got to sell a hundred thousand units. Well, when I sell on Amazon, say for example, that same product, I might make six pounds. So therefore I can sell six times less units, but make the same amount of money and having not had to buy all the other products that I would have had to in order to sell to Tesco and all the rest of it. So, um, and I saw these Facebook ads where, um, apparently you could just sit on a beach, uh, drink, drink cocktails, and listen to the sound of, uh, Amazon gives you loads of money and I thought, well, that sounds good. I'll have me some of that. And so I went to this conference, it was a two day conference at Heathrow I think 2015, it was either 2014. I think it was early 2015. And what I realized was was that a lot of Amazon sellers were not selling branded products and they weren't selling products that were particularly different. Actually. They were just, you know, it was the typical garlic crusher, postural supports and all the sort of things that we all joke about as being, you know, the sort of the joke products sometimes in the Amazon world. And, um, I spent, I realized that actually the other thing with a brand is that brands sometimes get on their high horse a bit too much and think everyone knows them. And actually, you know, for Nike, for example, you know, people are looking for a trainer, right. And, you know, for, um, you know, Coca-Cola, they're looking for a Cola drink, a fizzy Cola drink. And so I sort of started thinking about it a little bit more suppose I say rationally and more practically in terms of what are those keywords that are gonna drive traffic? Um, I also had to do a lot of like quite painful stuff. So I had to get rid of my distributors. I had to part ways with them, even though I'd been working with them for many years. Um, and I explained to them, I said, look, you know, this is a situation either. I either give up the, I either don't do this. And I don't, I try and make more money either, you know, or I go out of business. So either way, you're not going to have the product. Um, and, um, and then I started working on Amazon. I launched in the U S and Canada and Australia. And I did all that in April, 2016. Um, so, um, and then I had to also, uh, I was selling previously, uh, my distributors and wholesalers had been selling to resellers. So I had to stop selling my own product for about six months, um, because I had to wait to everyone to clear their stocks out and stop selling because I, I had like 37 resellers on same product, for example, you know, and the only thing that happens is the price just goes flying down. Um, and, um, so I did that, that was hard and, you know, cost, cost, money, um, cost, cost sales, but it was really sensible thing to do. And then I started working on all of the listings and all that sort of thing. I started learning PPC. Um, I did all that myself to start with. I now outsource it. I have been outsourcing it now for about three years, I think. But the first few years I did it all myself, which was a major headache. Cause I hate spreadsheets. Um, and yeah, just started building, building, building, and it's just been growing every year.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:26:07

Thank you for that. See, I know that you, um, I'm in the same camp as me and believe that selling on Amazon is a really good opportunity. Can you talk a little bit about why you think it's such great opportunity for brands? I mean, I have my own thoughts, but I would love to hear yours.

Cara Sayer: 00:26:20

Well, I just think you're missing a trick, um, because, um, you know, however much we like may like to pretend that, you know, we're a brand and everyone should be buying from us, et cetera, et cetera. Actually, the customer. May not want to buy from you. They don't necessarily want to have to hand their credit card details over to you. They don't want to have to worry about whether they get delivery like tomorrow or in a week or whatever. Um, and actually I find as well that sometimes, you know, even offering them a discount, they'd still rather go and pay full price at Amazon, but they'll get next day prime delivery. I do it myself. I think the thing is you have to think like a shopper, not a seller, and you have to think about what's best for your customer. So, I mean, I have links to all my products on Amazon, on my website, because if someone wants to buy it from Amazon, I might as well tell them where to go, make it easy for them. Um, and, and I think also, you know, I mean, I've got a friend of mine I'm always banging onto her. She's got amazing bag brand. And I, and I know people are searching for that brand on, on Amazon. Cause I can see it in search terms. And I keep saying to her like, and she does really, really well. She does seven figures just off a website and I'm like, you should definitely go on Amazon. She said, oh, well, no, blah, blah, blah. But the thing is you're not detracting from what you're going to do. Your customers are gonna stay with you and you'll still be bringing new customers on. And I mean, I'm growing my website at the moment. I'll explain a bit more about that in a minute, because I'm not all about Amazon. Um, and, um, you know, but the most important thing is that you give the customer what they want, not what you want. And if an Amazon, if a customer wants to buy it from Amazon, then they should be able to. And if you don't, then a lot of people who only shop on Amazon and there are quite a lot of them won't buy from you. So you're actually just missing out sales in my opinion.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:27:56

Yeah, I absolutely agree with you. I think. And the good, and the other thing about Amazon is that people are there to shop. Whereas if they're on Google or if they're on Instagram and your ad pops up, they might not be there to shop. They might be there to see.

Cara Sayer: 00:28:10

I just, I was having this conversation with somebody the other day. And I said, the thing is also is that quite often, for example, I'll see a Facebook ad, right? So I've been working with a Facebook ad agency for the, not for the first time. I've been ripped off many times, but this one is actually very good. And, um, and I've seen my sales, my website sales, my Amazon sales, everything has definitely gone up this year. Like, you know, really well. And I, and I, although I can't put a hard figure on it, my personal belief is that people do what I do. And what I do is I see a product on a Facebook ad. And then I go and see if I can get it on Amazon. Because, I don't want to deal with some Facebook, random company that I don't know. Um, and so I, you know, and most of the time on Facebook ads, it's not a brand it's like, you know, it's a sort of, you know, backscratcher or something or, you know, new makeup brush. And then you go to Amazon and there's like 20 listings, which are all for the same product. Cause all the Facebook ad company is doing is basically pretending they're a brand when they're not really in there selling, you know, we've, I've been ripped off many times by Facebook ads or not many times a couple of times. Um, but I sort of feel like, well, if I go and buy it from Amazon, at least I know what's going to happen. I'm not going to suddenly get hit by the fact that it's being shipped from China and I'm not going to get it for three weeks, you know? Um, so you know, there is that confidence in Amazon as a retailer that customers have, and especially, you know, when you're a prime customer, you know, you're, oh, well, if it's on prime, if it's available through FBA, you know, you're going to get it tomorrow or even that evening.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:29:33

Absolutely. And you know, your credit card details are safe. You know, you can return if you want to, there's going to be no hassle there. I think all of that makes a massive difference cause you're right. Putting your credit card details on the internet. It's quite scary, especially when you don't know what you're going to get or if you're going to get it.

Cara Sayer: 00:29:47

Know if you're going to get it exactly, I've had both instances. I got sent, I bought this robotic vacuum cleaner once, which when it arrived, it was supposed to be this all singing, all dancing, like vacuum robot, back floor, vacuum cleaner, which all sort of plugged in automatically to the plug and it, when it arrived, it was like a child's toy that took about 29 AA batteries. Um, so fortunately I managed to get my money back through my credit card, and then another time I bought this dress and, um, and they said, well, you know, all, no problem with returns, had to return it to China. And then they wanted me to, and then they wanted to charge a 30% restocking fee, even though they on their website, they said, there's no restocking fee. Um, and so there's absolute crooks out there, you know, frankly. Um, and, um, you know, so, so I think, you know, I don't blame people for not necessarily wanting to go to some kind of semi-random website.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:30:34

Although saying that, um, I do also believe that even if you sell on Amazon, Amazon, as you do, it's also important to have the website it's vital.

Cara Sayer: 00:30:43

You must have your own website and you see, I see a lot of Amazon associates, millions of, and sellers who don't do that. And actually they're making a big mistake because the thing is also, your customer wants to know you're real. Um, and you know, having a Gmail address on a website if for domain is pathetic, frankly, in my book, it costs virtually nothing to have a domain email address. Um, and you know, and it makes you look more professional. It makes the customer feel more comfortable. If I see like, you know, blahdy blue, blue at Gmail, I'm like, Nope, not doing that. Thank you very much. You know? So, um, you know, it is, it's all about creating a, a look and a feel that makes the customer feel that they can potentially trust you. And hand over their credit card details too.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:31:23

And you mentioned that you were doing some work on growing your website at the moment. So what are you doing there that you're happy to share?

Cara Sayer: 00:31:29

Um, we're doing, um, a lot of SEO work. Um, so, um, that is SEO work is not something that happens overnight. It's something that you need to work on with, like with a, with a plan. So I've got, um, a very good agency who, um, basically I've been up and working with them about the last year and we've been gradually growing it. And, um, it's quite funny. He like the guy that I worked with. Lovely. And he keeps going right. Well, you know, I'm going to aim to get you to here, like, you know, in sales and I'm like, oh yeah, right, whatever. And then actually we've hit it already. Um, so, you know, historically, you know, my website was only doing like 50 or 60,000. I think we've done 140 this year. Um, and that's a combination I think of, and that's just in the UK and then I've got the U S websites, Canada websites, Australia. So we're going to be working on each of those, um, individually. And I think it's really important that you have that direct customer interface, because just as there are the customers, who only want to buy on Amazon. There are also customers who actually prefer to buy direct from a brand. And so therefore you're giving customers a choice, which is what people want. They want to be able to choose where they buy.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:32:29

Thank you. And you touched on this a little bit earlier, when you were talking about your email sequences. Now I bought from you on Amazon. I have to be honest for all the reasons that you've outlined and I bought my SnoozeShade. That's where I bought it. But what's the experience like when people buy from you and your website, and do you have any tips or advice on how to make buying from. But, you know, from your brand

Cara Sayer: 00:32:49

on Amazon as well now, so you probably bought from me far too long ago because obviously things have changed now. So I use something called Helium 10 and there's quite a few of them, actually. There's quite a few providers out of those managed by stats and there's helium 10 and. I used to use another one Feedback genius. I think that day, I'm not sure if they're still around. Um, and I have automated sequences on Amazon as well, so I triggeratvarious points. So I do have, when someone buys from me, they get a follow-up email just to say, has everything arrived? Okay. Et cetera. And I send them a link to instructions so that they can like, hopefully get like use of the product. And then also if someone returns the product, I always send a message. And I just say, why have you returned it? I don't get very many returns. And the. Quite a high percentage of returns, emails on that. And people expect that It's ever so sweet. There was like, well, Hi Cara well I returned it because of such and such that we went on holiday, we didn't end up using it. Or like actually I realized I've got the wrong one and therefore I went and ordered the other one. And so what that does is the ones who've obviously bought it and didn't need it. You, I replied. And I said, well, thank you ever so much for letting me know. That's really, really kind. And next time you go on holiday, you know, do feel free to try and buy again. And if they bought the wrong one and they're now happy with the one they've got, I'm like, oh brilliant. That's amazing. Would you mind writing a review if you're happy with it? And you know, and then, um, I also, uh, what's that, oh, and then the other one is sometimes we get faults as well. Not very often, but we do. And then that's an opportunity to make her an unhappy customer into a raving fan. Um, so we bend over backwards for people. Who've had a faulty product and they love it because you know, there's no quibbling. We just ask them to send a photo and I need like the washing label to get the batch number. Is it. Just send a photo of the fault and then like, yeah, we'll send you a new one. No problem. No quibbles, no messing, you know, um, even when people have had it for several years, you know, I'm like, okay, well it's destruction to broken actually. Um, so, you know, if it comes to me, I've got like a 10 year old one. I mean, I got sent one back the other day, actually via Amazon. I think someone must've bought one off eBay or something or, or bought it maybe like 10 years ago. And then the elastic has actually cracked, uh, like, you know, when elastic breaks and goes flat. And I think what they've done is I think they've bought a new version of my product and then sent back as a return, the old one. Um, and I was horrified horrified, but people are sneaky. I mean, I do get people sending stuff back with babies, sick on it and all sorts of things. And I get all the returns sent to me. So in the UK, so they don't get very many of them. So I inspect them all. And you know, sometimes you get babysit or grass or cat hair. Yeah. If you've used this, you git, you know, and then you've returned it. I bet you said it's faulty. Uh, you know, just so you get free postage. Um, but. It's um, yeah, so, and then the post-purchase on the website is again, you know, I tell people what they're going to get. Like I say to them, look, you know, you're going to get an email, it's going to have instructions. Then I'm going to check in that. It's when it, after it shipped to make sure you've got it. Okay. Then I'm going to check. Everything's fine. And then I've, you know, I've got an extended extension on the warranty, um, which to be fair, I don't actually need them to do it. Um, uh, with my website, somebody's got their details, but I do it because it's like a nice extra touch. Um, and then we ask them for a review. So there's like this sort of, it's a five email or six email process that goes on over about a month. Uh, just but, but the never, the only are you saying you really, I suppose at the end, when we asked for review, um, and even then sometimes we've had it where we, when we've sent that email people then go, oh, I've had a call. You're like, okay, great. You know, Fantastic. Let's sort that out, you know? Um, so, you know, I welcome people having issues, but coming to me or us, I've got team obviously. Um, and, um, you know, we sought it out for you rather than sitting there bitching about the fact you bought this product and it's broken after 31 days and so Amazon won't take it back. Cause that's the bad thing about Amazon is that they have the stupid 30 day rule. Whereas I don't care. Like I said, if, if something breaks and it's like a couple of years down the line, I'll still replace it. Or at the very least I'd give you a five 50% discount off the next one you buy or something. I'd definitely do something. Whereas Amazon just goes on those, sorry. And then you get a bad review because Amazon is basically messed up on the customer side.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:36:53

Yeah, that definitely is one of, one of the downsides. And they also, I also don't think they take as much care for shipping as you would do.

Cara Sayer: 00:36:59

Do they take care of shipping? Honestly, I have some removals and they accidentally went to my house as opposed to going to the warehouse. And literally it was like, they'd taken a box that had been beaten within an inch of its life. And then put a couple of teeny, tiny little sellotape holders around it and then put at about 1500 quids worth of my stock. And actually some of them were missing. So they'd fallen out. And the DPD guy actually apologized to me, said, I'm so sorry. Like that's what it state it was in when I picked it up, I'm like, oh my God,

Vicki Weinberg: 00:37:30

Good. Well, we're talking about sort of a bit of a sort of negativity around products I hope you don't mind me talking about this, but when you're talking about what sort they're talking about, people's sort of saying, not as nice things about your product, it doesn't work. You criticisms. I'd love to talk a little bit about how you deal with any criticisms that come regarding your product. I hope you don't mind me being in this up, but I know recently you've had some and I think you dealt with it really well. That isn't what she did list. I thought you dealt with it really well. So do you mind talking about that a little bit because I think

Cara Sayer: 00:38:04

I get it all the time.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:38:05

It can be your worst nightmare. I think as someone who creates products passionate about their products, I think when you get any criticism about it, you can really take it to heart so hard. So can you talk a little bit about how you handle it and what, you know, what advice you would give to others in that situation? Cause I guarantee it, what happens to all of us.

Cara Sayer: 00:38:24

So. Much more like defensive than you are further down the line. So, you know, when you've only sold a few hundred or few thousand units of something, you're like, oh my God, someone's criticizing. It might like close the business, blah, blah, blah. Whereas when you're selling, like, you know, tens twenties, 30,000 units or whatever, you know, it's like one person's opinion. And that's why also I'm a big believer in if you make any claims about your product, make sure you've got something that actually backs that up. So, um, you know, one of the things that people didn't always get, remember this was a product that looked very, very different from normal baby products. So normal baby products, pretty patterns, pale colors, pastels mine's black. Okay. It's black and people don't really necessarily like, or didn't like the idea of black. So I've had people calling it, the baby burka. I've had people, um, you know, and also the problem is there's a perception about colors, which is that black attracts heat. And so obviously my product is a sunshade and to sleep aid and people were going well, if it's black, it's all going to heat up. The baby is going to cook to death and die. And so in the early days, you know, that was actually very upsetting. And I knew for a fact that that isn't what happens. But, and I even went, so what I did was because I'm not a scientist, um, I found it, uh, the, it was actually the, um, the UKs leading Thermo physicist, um, who, um, I went and spoke to them about it. And I said, look, you know, it was never very good at physics myself at school. I think I got 25% for writing my name and that was about it. Um, and I said, but you know, I know that my product doesn't overheat, but I don't really know why, you know, um, and actually, you know, what are the benefits, blah, blah, blah. So he actually wrote me a really nice letter where he actually explained the physics behind it and the fact that, you know, this and that, and actually fundamentally, even if it is like 40 degrees out there, it's still better to shade your baby from the direct sun than it is to leave them exposed. So even if it was to get a fractionally warmer, then it wouldn't matter. Yeah. But, um, I think it was this year. I just about had enough. I think that's the thing it's less about being defensive. You just get so fed up with hearing people being so uneducated. And, and actually in this instance, it was a, uh, an influencer, an Instagram influencer who basically saw one of my Facebook ads, um, and decided she didn't like the look of it. And then, um, because there was a problem with Instagram and Facebook, where there was an algorithm problem. Um, what was happening was you would comment on something and then it would say it wasn't posting, but then what actually happened was you'd then pack it in if you saw that, notice this, but it was, um, it was a few months ago. It was whenever it was whenever this thing kicked off. Um, and it went on for about a good month afterwards. It was really annoying. Every time anyone posted on it, they would then post like 20 times. So you'd be sitting there deleting like 20 comments because you only want their one comment. So she thought that she was her negative comments were being blocked. So instead of actually approaching the business like Instagram, she then took to her stories and then basically said, I've seen this thing. It looks like a death trap and baby's going to boil to death and it's like an oven and all this sort of stuff. And I just was like, do you know what I'm so sick and tired of this. And the problem was I didn't care necessarily about one person saying it cause I've had that happen a lot, but she had a lot of people who followed her and they were then going on to my Instagram and then putting abusive comments onto my old posts on Instagram. Oh, this is going to kill babies. This is going to, you know, all this negative stuff. And I was, and I, and actually I've got a team of three people who helped me on social media, all mums. And there was three or three or four of us, cause I was doing it as well. And we're going in there and we're trying to get them answer. And then they're saying, oh, well they haven't answered. They must be just like ignoring us sort of. And it was literally, I was just like, oh my God, I can't believe this. So I went and I said to my team, right, I'm doing a video. I said, I've had enough of this. I said, I am sick and tired. So I literally, I just went, look, you know, I designed my products to be as set that my products are actually safer. Then probably about 95% of most of the big manufacturers products, because I actually make my products safe enough to be safe enough for a newborn, which you don't have to do legally or any for any reason. But I do it because for me, I sleep at night and you know, I'm a mum and I would never forgive myself if any, a child was hurt you using my products. And you know, and I've always refused to do tests that are not scientific as well, because, you know, I will absolutely 100% test. So I've everything I, every claim I make on my product is tested, but you can't, there is no scientific test for whether or not a pram is going to overheat or not. It's just not possible, but there was all these influencers out there sticking like thermometers into their prams and then shoving a blanket over the top and then go, oh my God, the prams heated up to like 80 degrees and the baby's going to die. And I'm like, Jesus Christ. This is ridiculous. My product is nothing like a blanket. So, um, anyway, I did this video and then it got, and I actually did cry because I. You know, when you just get so overwhelmed. So, um, like that got picked up and it went a bit viral. And then I also subsequent, I thought, you know what, sod it. I thought I'm going to, I'm going to do what they do. I'm going to stick a bloody thermometer in a pram. And I'm going to show, you know, and actually, as I said, cause I've never, ever said it keeps babies cool in the pram. It can't because the pram heats up. There's all sorts of variants. But, but actually it was about the same temperature under the shade. In fact, it was slightly cooler. Uh, most of the time under the shade that it was outside in the sun. So I said, look, I've never said it keeps it. It's not an air conditioning unit, but it won't make your baby. It's not going to heat them up to like 80 degrees. And they're all suddenly going to die when it's only 25 degrees outside. Um, and so I've got those videos up now and I do say in it, look, it's not scientific test. I'm not using this to make a claim on just, this is literally like doing app, comparing apples with apples. If somebody is going to do a pram test and shove like a thermometer and a pram, that's what I've done, but I'm not making any claims based on it. So don't, and don't expect me to.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:44:14

Yeah, thank you. I think, I think it was, I liked the way your dealt with it because it was very to the point and. Yeah, it didn't escalate. Like you've got an apology in the end, didn't you from that lady.

Cara Sayer: 00:44:24

I did get an apology. Yeah. And I mean, also what was actually really lovely was because I had got visibly got upset about it, as you can tell, I'm very passionate about it. Um, but you know, safety to me is my, one of my, it's the number one feature of my products, you know? So for someone to challenge the safety of them, I don't care if you don't like the look of them because they're not fashion accessories, they help babies sleep. So if you want something that looks pretty, go elsewhere, go and buy something else. But if you want something that works. Then this is the product. I'm all about function over fashion. Um, actually I ended up being deluged by amazing comments from, um, from customers who were like, well, I've used it in 40 degree heat. It was amazing. I've used it here, like I've used, you know, and they were just sticking up for me. And that, to be fair, it was more valuable. And actually that really kind of made me feel a lot more confident about in future saying to people, no, it doesn't make the bloody pram hot, you know? And it's like these comments don't ask me, ask the parents here, here were like 200 comments all saying that over the very, over the years they've used it in very hot climates and they're absolutely fine. And then you tell me that it makes the baby hot. Well, I'm not going to say anything, you know,

Vicki Weinberg: 00:45:32

I think it's great that you built up that much loyalty as well. The people that your customers want to sort of stick up for you and for the product. Yeah. I think that's really good as well. Okay. I'm keeping an eye on the time card because I want to be respectful of that. And I've got just two more questions before we end if that's okay. Um, the first thing I would love to know is if you were going right back to this, take yourself right back to the start. What? Well, I was gonna say would that, would, would you do anything differently if you were starting again today? If, so what would that be?

Cara Sayer: 00:46:04

Well, if I was starting a fresh, if I was starting today, I wouldn't, if I was going back 10 years, you probably wouldn't do things that much. If there are a few things I would do. I mean, I did some mad stuff. Like, you know, I went to things like Oscar ceremonies in America and like went to the guy, you know, and did gifting suites in the States. And I spent money on sponsorship campaigns in the U S where way before I was ready and way before I had distribution over there. Which if I'm honest, now I probably wouldn't do. But having said that was, it was an experience, you know, um, if I was starting a fresh now, um, I would a hundred percent start on Amazon and my website, you know, I wouldn't bother with the other region with the other retailers. I might, I might have a few. I mean, I do have still, I still sell to JoJo Maman Bebe, you know, who are the first retailer I ever worked with. Um, and, um, you know, but I, I pulled out of everywhere like, cause, cause I left my distributor. Um, I don't sell, like I was selling to Tesco and Boots and everywhere else. And I just think that, you know, depending on your product and depending on, um, You know, I mean, what I ended up doing is in the end, I mean, for example, Tesco kept putting that price down and I'm like, well, I know what price you're buying it at. So how can you afford to have it down that low? And then, uh, Amazon, because I was at the time I was selling to vendor central, which I then also stopped, um, is they would then match what Tesco were doing. And I'm like, why are you doing that stupid? Like both you're losing money on this product. Um, and, um, and things like that. Whereas now that I've got more control over where it's sold, I don't have problems like that. You know, because actually for me, it's not about the price per se. It's about the perceived value of the product. You know, my products are not cheap to me. They are high quality, but I try and price them so that they are competitively priced. I don't want to, you know, um, I don't want them to be stupidly expensive. Um, and, um, so I do try, like I say, I've still kept the initial product I started with. It's still £19.99. But that price that my cost of product is probably almost doubled, you know, since I started. Um, and, um, you know, I think it's really, really important that, you know, that, that there's a perceived value to that. You know? I mean, I still get people complaining, oh, it's too expensive. I'm like, right. Well, you try and go off and make a product like mine to the quality level and the safety standards that I do. And then you knock yourself out and try and do it for £19.99. You know? I mean, every, every company that's ever copied, me, I've been copied by Aldi Lidl. I've been copied by other people who, other prime manufacturers I've been copied by, you know, random Amazon sellers, you know, none of them ever produce a product that is the same quality. They're always cheaper and they're always nastier. And, you know, and, and I'm like, good because it just shows to me, it just proves to me that what I'm doing is right, which is I'm spending more because. I make less money on some of my products because of the fact I choose to invest in the pricing as a strategy to get people through the door. Um, and then I've got more expensive products and I, you know, and all the rest of it. And I've got some products that make more margin than others and all the rest of it. But, you know, fundamentally there is an element where I don't want my brand to be devalued. I don't want it being sold for 14 pounds. You know, somewhere when you know, I wouldn't sell it on my website for 14 pounds. So, you know, why on earth would it be sold somewhere else?

Vicki Weinberg: 00:49:21

Yeah, that makes sense. And I also believe that, you know, given sort of the amount of time and effort and everything that you've put into your products, I don't think anyone ever could compete with you on quality and price.

Cara Sayer: 00:49:33

Yeah. I've just spent six and a half thousand pounds on safety testing. I can't even really talk about because of the fact that it's not an official safety test, but it is a safety test that is really important. So I've actually just had the products tested for carbon, carbon monoxide, dioxide, re breathing, and also suffocation. Now there is actually no official tests for that, but I've worked with one of the world's leading independent laboratories and they do have that test that they use for other bigger brands. And I've managed to get hold of someone and I've managed to get my products tested that costs me six and a half thousand dollars or something, you know, and who's going to spend six and a half thousand dollars normally on a 20 pound product, like to test safety tests. But I can now say, well, I know it doesn't affect it. Won't do you can't rebreathe and I know you can't suffocate. So, you know, for me, that's my, my sanity, you know? Um, and my that's my sort of, you know, the why, why I sleep at night, because I know that might that and all the copies will have not had any of the tests that I've had, you know, that I've done and they won't be using the zip qualities I use. They don't use the only baby safe, certified poppers in the world, you know, all of these little details and what makes up the bigger picture, which is why, you know, even if you're not selling a product like mine, there are ways of making your product stand out from other people's by just doing something that shows that you care, you know, go that extra step. So for example, I bought a couple of t-shirts on Amazon, basically. Same t-shirt pretty much just slightly different patterns. And one seller sent it to me. It was all crumpled up and it was just in a plastic bag and the other one had actually wrapped it up in a tissue paper. You know, like you get in a shop with a little sticker on it, like little branded sticker, well guess which one I'm going to get? They were the same price, but somebody had basically just said, oh, here. Um, I'm going to like sell you a cheapest. T-shirt shove it in a plastic bag and send it to you. And one of thought, well, actually, I'm going to make it look quite nice. So it was a bit of an experience opening it, it shows someone's cared, you know? So even little tiny touches like that, you know, packaging is something particularly that, um, you know, it costs extra. Yes. But like if you're only ever looking at your margins, you're not really looking at your business in the right way. In my opinion, if you want to create some kind of quality brand, if you're just selling down and dirty cheap for the cheapest price, do what you like. But if you're trying to build something that has a little bit more longevity, then think about ways in which you can make yourself stand out. And some of those ways are, you know, could be donating to charity with every purchase. It could be, uh, you know, making it wrapped up nicely. It could, you know, so it's making it packaged. So it's a ready to go gift, you know, all those sorts of things. People do notice.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:52:14

They do. And I think there's a lot to be said for being thoughtful and what I really like as well Cara, what I'm really taking from this conversation is despite the fact that you've been doing this for well over 10 years now, you're still refining and improving because you know, you don't need to be doing these extra tests. You probably don't need to be fiddling with your website. well not fiddling. You know, I thought, you know, the best way, you know what I mean, though, all these things that you're doing. Um, I just think it's really nice that despite you being established very established, you're still always looking to improve and improve. You're not just the products but an experience as well. And I just think that's really admirable.

Cara Sayer: 00:52:49

And the other thing I would also say, which is reassuring to people that are starting up, do you don't have to do it all straight away. So for example, in my previous life, I was in marketing PR, et cetera. And I used to do some consulting, which was one of the things I did for the person who never paid me. Um, and or she did pay me eventually. Um, but anyway, one of the first things I would always walk into any business, whether it's a B2B or B2C, I would say, are you doing a newsletter to your customers? You know, cause honestly that's a really good way of like communicating and upselling other products and giving discounts and encouraging people to buy. Anyway, over the last sort of 11 years, I've probably done in total about 20 newsletters to customers, but you know what, my business has still continued. Um, I haven't had a lovely post-purchase email follow up, uh, in the last sort of 11, 12 years. I've, I've sort of flitted in and out of Facebook ads, you know? Um, I, yeah, so I think the thing is, is that what I would say to people is focus on one thing, do it, well, then move on to the next thing, because if you try and do all of it at the same time, You know, or even focused on two or three things, or if you've got a team of people, you know, but don't try and do everything and don't worry if you can't do everything because if you start doing well and you're not doing all those things, imagine how well you could be doing. If you actually then started focusing and putting a bit of energy and that could be next year or the year after it, doesn't all have to be now.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:54:05

That's brilliant advice. Thank you. And I think that is really reassuring. So the other side of what I was saying about how you're still doing these things now, it's nice to know that some of these things you weren't doing, it's not like you've always been doing a lot of these things. I think that is really good.

Cara Sayer: 00:54:18

Yeah. I mean, I've grown. I mean, this year we've done 48% increase year on year in the U S and in the UK and the. Um, and, um, and then on my website, I'm at 134%, I think it is. And in the U S I'm up again. I can't remember what percentages off the top of my head, but that's really quite significant growth. Um, and that is growth that's taken and that's obviously taking into consideration. We've had COVID. I mean, you know, COVID knocked me a croppa briefly, but you see again, I think because I was such an established brand by that point, although yes, it wasn't great for anyone and no, I didn't make as much money low, like in 2020 as I did in 2019, I still kept going. I mean, at one point I was sitting there with a pet, a piece of paper and a pencil working out if I sold two units of this and three units of that in this country and that country, like, could I keep the business going? Could I pay my team, blah, blah, blah. And then actually all just kicked off again. And it all just carried on and it was fine. And I did well last year. Um, but you know, but, but the thing is, is that, you know, you've got to always be flexible, you know, I mean, if COVID is taught us nothing, it's taught us like how things change. I've always been a massive fan of FBA, but when it hit, I suddenly had to do FBM because I did FBM using MFN, which is the manufacturer fulfilled. Now, did it do it using the, um, uh, what's it called? Multi-channel fulfillment. Uh, when I got Amazon to fulfill my orders on Amazon, because you know, which is really stressful because actually I couldn't do it now because Amazon doesn't give you the shipping details before they shipped. So, whereas now they want you to put the shipping details in. So what we would, I was sitting there doing was I'm typing in like all these customer details into Amazon to ship the product. Then as soon as they've shipped it, then I'm getting the tracking details, putting it into Amazon, to, you know, to pass onto the customer. Honestly. I mean, you know, but all of these things, you've just got to. Learn how to do, and it actually has also opened me up to doing more FBM because it's good because again, not everyone has prime. Um, and actually, you know, you can, you can, and sometimes you go out of stock, so it's good to have backup and you know, all of those things.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:56:20

Yeah, definitely. And for anyone who doesn't know this FBM is when you fulfill your own orders on Amazon and like you I recommend you do both as well, because as you say, if you go out of stock, it's just all, you know, your stock takes ages to get unloaded, but it gets to Amazon, as it can in the run up to Christmas is a good to have. I'm aware of I've kept you for quite a long time now, Cara. So I have one final question if that's okay. Which is what would your number one piece of advice be for someone looking to start a products business right now?

Cara Sayer: 00:56:49

Oh, don't do it! Um, I think I would say. Just make sure you're really clear on your USP, which is your unique selling point. And like I say, that isn't necessarily the Unix unique selling point of the product. It could be the unique selling point of the customer service experience. It could be the unique selling point of how you deliver it and package it. It could be the unique service, unique selling point of the fact that, you know, you sell a tea brand and you donate to, um, you know, elephant sanctuaries in India, you know, whatever it might be, but find something. Um, so I'd say there's that one find something unique. And the other thing I would say is. At the Amazon world is full of a lot of people. It's quite funny. Whenever I go to Amazon events, because it's full of people who are selling like, you know, seven, eight figures or whatever, and they, and if you say to them, what do you do? They're like, oh, I'm in the baby category. Or I'm in the pets category. And I'm like, oh no, I do SnoozeShade. And they're like, what? Sorry. You know, because it's all very secretive and no one likes to share what they do. And I'm not, I don't care because I'm a real, I consider myself a brand. I just happened to use Amazon as a sales channel. Um, but I would say that, you know, one of my top tips is if you're not afraid of putting your face out there. It adds a bit of personality to your listings on Amazon and, and to your website, make it about the real you, or, you know, give the gift customers a story because they liked stories. They like to be given a reason why they should support you over some other faceless entity. And, you know, if you go to any of my listings and you're welcome to, they're not, I do them all. They're not particularly brilliantly done, but again, it doesn't have to be perfect. Just has to work. And, you know, you'll see this pictures of me on there, pictures of my daughter. Um, I talk about the fact that's invented by a mom, you know, because that is actually part a very important part of the story. And Amazon, particularly and the internet is quite faceless personality, less place. So the more you can do to make people actually care about why they should buy from you the better, I think really.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:58:48

Thank you so much that I completely agree with you. What I'm working on with clients on Amazon. listings, one thing that I'm always trying to do is put a bit of personality into it, because as you say, there were so many, you know, you'll get 20 listings for the same thing, but the ones that stand out to me as a customer are the ones that are a bit different or whether that's because it's got someone's face on it or whatever it's because the language they use, um, yeah, there's something a lot more appealing when you realize this isn't the same t-shirt as the other 20 or whatever it is.

Cara Sayer: 00:59:18

Exactly.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:59:19

Well, thank you so much for your time and for everything you've shared today, I've loved talking to you, I think. Yeah. You've, you've given us a lot, um, thank you.

Cara Sayer: 00:59:27

I want you all go away and make notes and then tell me you've done lots of things.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:59:31

Thank you so much.

Cara Sayer: 00:59:33

Pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:59:36

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