Wholesale for Small Businesses – with Therese Ørtenblad

Wholesale for Small Businesses – with Therese Ørtenblad

Welcome to the, bring your product ideas to life podcast, practical advice, and inspiration to help you create and sell your own physical products. He is your host Vicki Weinberg.

Hi, I am so excited today to welcome Therese Ørtenblad to the podcast. Therese, it has a background in sales and has worked in the home and gift industry for over 12 years, selling it to be an independent retailers. And National's on the high street. She is passionate about the retail industry and helping product based business owners make more sales, increase their profit and develop a strategy for growing their businesses with confidence and excited to have to be on the show, to talk about how to say, you know, start to get started with Wholesale whatevers, the size of your businesses. And I know Therese identify as an introvert, which we can definitely relate to that she knows so much in this subject. She's a fantastic guest. I'm really excited that it was able to have her on here.

And Therese also host a fantastic podcast, which is called let's talk shop, which I will link to it in the show notes, because if you want to find out more about Wholesale or more about selling it to retailers, that is definitely a show. Where are we listening to you? So I'm now going to introduce you to Therese. Hi, I am so excited to have two resource of lots of on the podcast today. So to me, this has a background in sales and has worked in the home and gift industry for over 12 years, selling space, independent retailers and nationals on the high street. She is passionate about the retail industry and help him product based businesses if they're high to me. So thank you so much for being here.

Hi, thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here.

No problem. So I'm just gonna share with everyone how I came about you and how you came to be here, because we always think it's a nice story when there is a story. So I first heard you talking in the all by mama network, which I am a member of at some point last year. I couldn't tell you when it feels like autumn, but who knows when to 20 just seems like one rolling Mums, really? And I'm on the back of that. I started listening to your podcast, which will talk about a bit later. And, and so I invited you here, so thank you for accepting the invitation. Would you mind starting off by telling everyone about yourself, your background and what it is that you help people with Please?

Yeah, of course. Well, thank you for having me. First of all, it's always nice to be on the opposite end of like the Podcast. It does it up that often I re I quite enjoy it. So my business is called Small Business Collaborative and I help business owners, founders, product based businesses start and grow their Wholesale. So it's a pretty neat, but everything that feeds into that, you know, your sales in general and self

mind-set, your profitability and your margin's and anything that comes with running your business and the sales side of that, A lot of systems and that sort of thing.

And I'm, I've been doing it for about 10 and a half years now feels like it's gone so quickly, but yeah, I came from a background in sales. I spent over a decade in sales, in the home and gift industry. So I sold everything from novelty toys, like animal shaped crayons, a two year cupcake, lip balms, and like high end home fragrance, stationary books, table, top. So Muggs and things. It's a lots of, lots of different things and always to do that kind of a home and give you three teller.

So that would be anything from pretty much anyone on the high street and all the department stores, a lot of fashion chain's as well. So because we all know that they don't just sell a clothes. So a lot, all my customers who have been, you know, there are a source and I don't know a French connection or a urban Outfitters and a, well, of course, a lots of lovely, independent batiks and shops as well. There's some of my favorite 'cause, you know, who doesn't love a good in the world. And then I started my business because I kept going to trade shows and exhibiting and speak to my retailers and buyers and, and they kind of said, well, I can't really buy it from them because I would get really excited about the really small brands.

And then they would say things like, Oh, they don't really have their margins right yet. Or, you know, they didn't really have the confidence to buy from those small businesses. So I thought it would be a really lovely to be able to help them. So that's what I'm doing now.

Yeah. That is really lovely. And thank you for that introduction. So I'm going to start with what would seem to like a very, very basic question, but I do like to keep it very, fairly simple. So for someone who perhaps doesn't know, how would you describe the Wholesale? What is Wholesale?

So to me that is solving a larger volume at a lower price, mostly to someone that will reread selling it to the end consumer, but it could also be to, you know, hotel, if you do nice smelly soaps, or it could be for their hotel rooms too, that could also be a form of a Wholesale, but generally it's a selling I a higher volume than normal.

Perfect. And to, that could be, to have a shop. It could be to add a distributor, just, you know, selling your products in bulk

Can. Yeah. But when we say bulk, I think in bulk is such ad or a high volume can be so misleading, new thinking, like thousands of pieces, but it doesn't have to be that they could equally tense.

Okay. That's interesting. So that as well, and I guess, yeah, if you were selling into smaller, independent shops, they might not be wanting hundreds of orders. Well, that's good because I guess that makes it a bit more accessible as well, potentially.

Ah, I think that a lot of people think that Wholesale is this massive base that you have to go all in and how can you make it work? But it could be that you make everything you're always going to have to make everything that you'd like someone else to help you, you know, cells. So you want it to have a few brick and mortar stores and maybe you only ever want five that is still Wholesale. Yeah.

That's really interesting. So I've never thought of that. And I'm thinking that listeners probably haven't as well. So you, if you were hand-making products, for example, and you had 10 stores and, and you are sending them, I don't know, 10 products at a time, that's still class counselors Wholesale.

Yeah. You obviously have to make sure that it works for you in your margins and time and stuff like that. But I think that it's a little bit of a misconception that Wholesale has to be super bag selling to lots of people. It could be a bit more dipping your toes in and it could be the way you want to do your business all the time. Yeah.

Yeah. That was really interesting. I hadn't thought about that. So your business model could be to send a stock into just small, independent reset sellers for example. And that could be a wholesale model.

Yeah, absolutely. You don't, you don't need to have loads in it. It's all about your goals or you would want that out of it. I think so. Yeah.

Yeah. That is really interesting. So I think when people think of Wholesale myself included, I'd always thought about it sort of high street retailers, big online marketplaces and that kind of thing. So that's really interesting. Yeah. So tell us, why might someone consider Wholesale is a way to go to their product's business?

So I think the most important thing is obviously the sales aspect, if you want to get your volumes up, but I think the pain is it in the beginning. And I think it's a lot of it being paid for marketing. You know, you get more eyes on your brand name of your product, so it can help you get a bigger reach. It can also help you get your margins up on your retail side, because if you can just put a little bit of volume behind your supplies with your suppliers, you might be able to access much better pricing. So, you know, if you can buy hundred T towels instead of 50, then maybe your proudest prices will be a bit more manageable.

So you would get a bit more, more margin on your actual direct sales. So that's another reason why I think it's really good. And of course the feedback, you know, if you deal with lots of small independent retailers or even just the harmful, they have so much experience and you can get feedback. And I think that is invaluable. And I think that in itself, even if your really brand new and you're just launching a brand is a reason to hold sell from the beginning. You know, that you get more eyes on your brand, more visibility plus that you can get to speak to these retailers. They have many years or so experience and knows what sells.

Yeah, that all sounds fantastic. And I think as well, there were some products possibly as well, they sell better or in person as well. And that kind of just look best on the shelf than they do in a picture I've seen products like that, where or nine, you know, it doesn't do them any justice and you see them in person and you can touch them and feel them. And it's a really different experience.

Absolutely. I think that things like, you know, soaps are quite trendy now, candles, all those things. I much prefer when I can by them in person. Of course now. I mean, I ended up buying a lot because I find it lots of companies or online, but that's just a bit of a nature of what we do I suppose. But, you know, and normally those are the sorts of things. I would much prefer to buy a in person or even something that has texture to it. Like even though it's as simple as a great thing, because actually I'm one of those people that would rather buy it in person because I mean, paper papers, not just paper, it's like all different and the finishes, they're all different.

So yeah, I am sure a lot of ours are like that.

Yeah. I think say as you say it at the moment of things is obviously very different, but hopefully later this year, things will start to, to improve in that sense. So if someone is interested in Wholesale, what is, how and how would we get started? What are some first steps that you can take or even things to think about

perhaps?

So I think the absolute first thing is to get clear on your pricing 'cause you don't wanna do a lot more work and it not working for you. So you need to really get to know your numbers. Then I think this would help you in every aspect of your business. So it's not just for your whole cell, but to make sure you are clear in your prices. And I think that it's really important in the beginning when you set those prices, especially at a retail prices and then your wholesale price is, will be based on that is that you are clear on the margins and also where you want to take the business. So if you already know that you want to grow a big business and you want to call over the VAT threshold, even though that might feel foreign to you now, then I think it's good to take it into account in from the beginning is better that you make more money in the beginning or more margin and than losing 20% of your business when you VAT you register.

So I think pricing is number one, number two, I guess it kind of goes in hand in hand, you can flip them around two, but I, if you do want to sell it to shops, then I think you need to make sure that your products are retail ready. So of course it's different to sell something online. Then if selling on the shelf in a shop. So you wanna make sure that you have your branding on everything, that it, it looks like you, you know, something that people would want to pick up in a store and, and know what it is. So, or if it's something like a craft kit, you'll have to make sure that it's explained on the outside of the box, what's inside the box or people are going to start opening things too much.

And that's one of the things goes missing. And so you have to think about that. How is going to look on the shelves? And of course he has to meet or legal requirements as well, because that is your responsibility that goes for any product that you put out there, of course. But yeah, if we start with your product in your pricing, I think that's a great start. And then everything else can kind of come naturally after that,

When it comes to wholesale pricing, is there a kind of magic number in terms of the kind of the discount you should be offering and does it vary between the big retailers and the smoothie tailors? Cause I imagine this is something that people get really stuck on trying to work out how to price our products for Wholesale.

Oh yeah. I think safe 'cause, there's a lot of different, there's so much advice floating around out there. And a lot of advice is U S advice and, and you know, they do their tax system works differently to all of us. So it's not necessarily the same. So we often say that a retailer would expect you to their wholesale price to be 50% of the ex VAT recommended retail price, which has a bit of a, a handful. The recommended retail price is what they sell it for in their shops. So, you know, what is the same that you would sell it for on your

website, for example, or let's say are not on the high street and your retailers would most likely be VAT registered, which is why we say 50% of the XV 80 price you can put up.

You've probably heard that sometimes people talk about mock-up instead. And 50% of the X V T prize is a, mock-up have 2.4. So you can get that price two different ways you see that you can take. So it was a product that retailed a 10 lbs. You can divide that by 1.2, to get their ex VAT price and then divided into, or you can take the 10 pounds and divided by 2.4. And that is what the retailer would expect. Often. It seems a bit high when you first hear it. And when you start at fast start to calculate things, but you have to remember that they have a lot of costs, of course rent's and staffing and fixtures and systems and rates and lots of things to kick in to account.

So often that's what they need to do. It does vary a little bit for in category two category, you know, magazine's for example, come in with a lower margin requirement, whereas something like mass produced, custom jewelry or clothing, there are perhaps factory produced often comes with, it's like a higher margin and a larger retailers also have demand more and more often, but that could be volume based. So if you start at this sort of a Mark about 2.4, then you are, or at least showing people that you are a competitive often.

Yeah.

Okay. So that was going to be a question so that it wouldn't, you could expect to bury those in between biggest and smallest retailers. What about online retailers? So retailers that just have an online presence, would you expect there to be a difference there now?

So I was just, I mean, I'm very much for having one pricing strategy. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. So having one price for it from one, because online retailers, even though they don't have the rent of the shop front and they might have big stuff in costs, they might have REITs. They might also advertise a lot. And which of course often helps you as well as a brand. So I like one pricing strategy. And then on a case by case basis, if say, I don't know Waterstones wanted your stationery.

And they said, we wanna by X amount than maybe you can negotiate. I think as a starting point, it's nice to have one set rule because then it's equal for everyone. I think if we talk a lot about being an ethical and sustainable, and I think that is part of being ethical as being fair to all your stockists and giving them the

same chance to compete with each other.

Absolutely. And that does make sense is that it makes sense as well for you to have one yet to have one price and that you've worked out and this and that you're happy and comfortable with, I guess as well. Because I suppose if, if you work out this out and you realize actually it's not going to be profitable for you. Yeah. Yeah. Perhaps you have to production or your time, if you're making the products and at least that's something that you can, you can think about it.

Yeah. Yeah. And equally, you know, if you don't have your, not quite there yet to say you Dawn, you know, you can get there with your margins. 'cause, you know, if you could get a little bit more volume, you can by a little bit bigger, more confidently because I don't actually advise the buy a hundred is just to get your price down. If you haven't, if you don't know that you can sell them. So, you know, then maybe you go for after the slightly smaller retailers, whether they are brick and mortar, because even with independent, independent retailers there. So obviously the ones that are even smaller, you know, smaller than others.

So maybe the ones that might not be VAT registered, for example, or online ones that are still very much a kitchen table or perforation, maybe you go with them first because they might have more flexibility. You know, you, maybe you can offer them a little bit less of a margin. So, so there's always ways to enter the market. I think it's just, you have to adjust your goals and expectations accordingly.

Yeah. That's how you do make sense. So how would you go about sort of finding retailers that might be appropriate for your products in, in the first instance, you know,

It's funny, like it's my Instagram post that I was writing for, for it's. There was lots of ways. I think that the EAs, you know, I'm very much for in the beginning. Don't make it too hard for yourself. We can make it too difficult at the beginning. Ask your audience. If you're already have an audience, are you on Instagram, for example, ask them, like, where do you shop? Where would you expect to see my stuff to take your favorite independent retailers? And after that, I think its good to go after, you know, your local community fast.

So, you know, we all have independence around us. I'd say it all depends on where you live. But I think we have, most of us will know at least a few independents, whether they are online or in brick and mortar form that we can maybe see our products in. So contact them. And then I think its good to look at your competitors to. And then when I say competitors' they say that kind of loosely, because I don't want you to

look at someone that does exactly the same thing as you are, but more someone that complements you. So if you do home fragrance, maybe someone that is in the past, you can still go after there are retailers, but offer something different.

So maybe look at someone that doesn't use essential oils and then you can offer the retailers, you know, alternatives. So, you know, they would want to have both perhaps or something else that would work with it, like nice candle tres or incense stake holders, you know, like it's something that would compliment. Is it

within the same kinds of shelving space looking at where they are stocked or a lot of people put their stock just on their website. And that should give you a stair two people that may be, or after a similar things to yours.

Yeah. That makes total sense. Thank you. Because I guess especially for smaller stores, they may only want one type of candle or one type of moisturizer or whatever it is. Cause they have got limited shelf space and they probably don't want a lots of competing products that makes taste and smell.

And with home fragrance being so big, I think the most stores would be one to have a couple or three event and they will probably go with the kind of good, better and best sort of price where they will want to have if they want to offer it to different customers of theirs. Yeah. But in any, unless they have a big space, it might not, might want so much more than that. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. It was. I was just thinking they probably don't want a lots of products that are going to compete against each other necessarily do that. So like for like product X.

Yeah. Thank you. They wouldn't, if they already have an essential oil candle at 25 pounds, they wouldn't maybe want a different one there, all the same in a similar kind of vessel, but maybe your vessel is ceramics and they are in an Amber jar maybe then it would be possible. Yeah.

Yeah. That makes sense. So I have my product's in a few stores and they were all local stores to me and I literally just took my products in and says, can I speak to who's in charge and showed them? And that's the way that I've sort of got my product stocked if it is great, I do need to feel really good really. I mean it's a bit,

it's a bit scary to sort of say, this is mine and I'm do you want us to sell it? But it would be good to do an almost in a way easier to do in person because you get that instant feedback you can seat by someone's face wherever they are interested and starts being great. But I mean, given that now shops aren't open or a

majority of shops on a pen.

And I guess also people might want to be thinking about bigger retailers. What other methods would you suggest? Four sort of making that initial contact,

Which I mean most happens by email, to be honest, it's a luxury to be able to find out those local it here 'cause then you have their own local angle too, which is nice. But most of the time it happens by email. So, and that is the same as smaller retailers at a large retailers. So I will definitely have a nicely crafted email template that you can then personalize for everyone that your email, because it shouldn't be all copy and paste, but their essential information can be copy and paste.

Perfect. And what kinds of things would you need to have in that email, as in, would you be giving out pricing for that initial email, which was how much would you, what were you, what would you be staying in that industry or what are the key sort of key things to include?

So I definitely think to make it personal is number one. So no DSL, Madam or who would be my concern is not, it's often not that hard to find out the name of people. If you do do a little bit of research that they might have it in their, about section, on their website or on their social media or on Facebook or somewhere, you can often find that name. So make it personal and then make it relevant, ask questions. It's really about them

and not so much about you in a way.

And then I think its really important to just make it clear that your selling something and what you do do you, you don't have to give your whole life story or your whole brand story, but the highlights that, that particular retailer, my care about it. So if you know that they stuck a lot more sustainable brands, then of course maybe if you do the same, if you make sustainable products, you lead with that. If you know what they are stocking in a lot have made in the UK products, then you make your stuff and the UK, the UK, and lead with that. And so you make it personal and relevant that way. And then I think its really important to talk about. I tell people what kind of pricing you have.

So not necessarily that you have to put all your wholesale prices in the body of the email, but at least give your kind of, all of your recommended, a retail range to say you do greeting cards and they retail between three and three 75. I think put that in the body or the email somewhere because retail is, will have a really specific pricing architecture in their store so that they would want to know quickly if you could fit in. I would

embed images because most of us are visual, especially creative people. And then I liked to link to my catalog or a line sheet to whatever you have in terms of sales material so that it doesn't go into the spam and they could still open that email and see all your relevant information, including how to order, because basically you want the email to include everything they would want to know to make a decision.

Even if that first email is not going to always be or decision-making email, you want them to have the opportunity or should they wish to? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's really helpful. Thank you.

Yeah. I talk about it a lot. Yeah.

So this is what, this is good because you were answering all the questions that I think people are going to have initially in, of course afterwards we'll give them links to where they can come and follow you if they want to go in to this in a bit more depth. So we met, you mentioned earlier that it, it, it, that Wholesale is an option for half of my businesses in creative business is that we get to know, are, are there any differences? So if you're Handmade in your products, is there anything different you need to be aware of or take into account if you're looking to Wholesale

And be very clear, like communicate your lead times really clearly and make sure that if you are getting overwhelmed with orders that you give them, you know, you don't try to put so much pressure on yourself and them and give them two weeks lead time. When you think that is cutting it really fine because they will do their planning accordingly to what you say. It's okay for it to take four weeks. If it takes four weeks or if it takes longer than that, that's what they will plan to. It's hard if you are, they think they're going to get into the, you know, next week and you deliver a month later, that makes a big difference.

So I think communicate what they can expect from you really clearly that doesn't mean that you have to give you a worst case scenario right now, but I know a lot of people say that, well, if I have to reorder, it's gonna take three months, but Shaun's is that they will order so much volume that you have to reorder is probably slim. So, so you know, you, you, you can give us a slightly better one and then you can say I'm a disclaimer, that for any launch order, this may be longer sort of thing. So clear communication, I think is number one.

It, I mean, it's good for trust to yeah.

Yes, absolutely. And I think, I think a lot of what I'm getting from you, it is that if you can be clear and upfront and fair with the entire process, that'll really help.

Yeah. And it will become, they're like a favorite supplier at nighttime.

Okay. Thank you. So you've given us lots of information on how to get started and things to think about. Is there anything to be aware of? Are there any sort of common mistakes you see or any put pitfalls we need to look out for?

I think the thing that has come up lately, it's probably that you need to take care of your existing stockists. Just as much as you go after new business, it's much easier to get your existing stockists by, into new product, to order maybe a one time extra year, which can change your turnover and grow it and then keep getting new customers. So even if you have a new and shiny and then selecting stocky, so don't forget about the ones that have supported you in the past. They are going to be much easier to grow and much more loyalty you, if you keep in touch with them.

So I think it's a really easy to forget.

Yeah. Well thank you. Yeah. That's it, that again, that's excellent advice and yeah, so I think a lot of it is about relationships, isn't it? And just being kind and fair and talking to people.

It is, and you know, they, I mean, that's how it's going to be fun too for everyone. Yeah, yeah,

Yeah. Cause yeah, cause I guess we're, you know, the, the aim of, of wholesaler's, but it is growing in your business is also to build relationships as well.

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean that's, I mean, that's how you get the most of your retailers to buy, getting them involved. You might, they might, if you get to know them, they might say to you all, you should do this in a

pink version because actually at the moment I'm doing this from this other brand and that is selling really well or whatever pattern it might be or, you know, they can give you a lot of insight.

Thank you. So let's talk a little bit about, about your services, what you do and how you can help people wanted to start retail. So I mentioned your podcast earlier, which I, which I've been listening to. So it, should we, should we start there and then move on to some of the other things that you offer?

Yeah. So the product cost is an, a little break at the moment, but I've done four seasons. So you say that, yeah, it's called let's talk shop. And I speak with industry experts or shopkeepers buyers, brand owners, basically all of our Wholesale. Sometimes they cover different topics around Business, but in general, anything that can help you grow your business and is very conversational like this. And I, yeah, I love it.

It's the whole idea came about because I wanted to bridge that gap between buyers and sellers, because it's almost like where the two teams sometimes, but they actually, we should be on one team. You know, we shouldn't be scared to contact people, even though it is kind of scary. But you know, when you, when you do something new, it's always a little scary, but you need to meet shop owners and buyers are in that position because they love products and they like finding new things. And that is that whole job. So we shouldn't be in two teams. So that's kind of on the podcast while I started it.

And then it kind of evolved from there to be a bit more on your business

Stuff. Well, it's a great list. And then I will link to it in the show notes. So wherever you're listening to this episode, we'll be able to find it easily. And what are some of the other ways you can help people if they were wanting to start with Wholesale?

So I have a few courses that I run regularly. I have one called Wholesale, which are probably when this goes out, it will be live as in, we will be middle way through it. And that's exactly what it says on the 10 is literally taking you through these steps to get started. I'll give you the pricing and your sales material and, and you're products. And then I have a call with a course called let's talk sales, which is kind of like, follow-up, you obviously don't have to do either or the other, but it's sort of all about selling. So about how you organize yourself, are you finding the time to make time for yourself and how you can shift your mindset?

If it's something that perhaps you are not very comfortable with, or if you are, have lost a bit of a Moja and you'd need a bit of an accountability and a more strategic way of doing it, that covers that. And then I worked one to one of our clients too. So I work mainly on three and six months mentoring, but I do also offer a one off course and they are available on my website and every month I can look on my calendar and see how many I can fit it. And it's probably usually around four or six. So yeah, that's the different ways I think.

Okay, perfect. Thank you. And I will link to your website on stray notes again and so that everyone can go in and take a look if they are interested in working with you. So thank you for all you've shared today. I have one final question, if that's all right. Yeah. Which is what would your number one piece of advice be for someone wanting to start a Wholesale?

So I did write this down. I would say, not everything has to be perfect. I think one of my favorite crates is done is better than perfect Sundberg. It's actually referred to that all the time, but at least like I quoted at least twice a week, but it is very much something to remember when it comes to your Wholesale. I think, yes, you have to have a good product. Yes. You need to have some sort of sales material. Of course you

need to make sure that you need to make money. But I see clients getting stuck with creating the perfect most beautiful catalogue or getting stuck with like making lists after lists of what kind of retail is they dream of being stocked in before they feel a, that they can contact people or they think that you have to have a numbers of years of experience or X number of sales to be able to Wholesale.

And I think trying to go for that perfection is it can hold us back a lot a times.

Yeah. That's great advice. Thank you. And yeah, that's another quote that I'm really keen on and I guess as well, that building on what you've said, that once you get out there, when you, and you approach the retailers, I guess you will also get feedback that will help you to improve what you do or whatever, that's your catalog, where is your pricing, wherever it, you know, whatever it is. And so I guess as a lot to be said for just putting yourself out there. Yeah,

Yeah. Or even packaging, you know, you might get into a few smaller retailers, then they might be able to give you advice on how you would display better or how it will be packaged in a way that works for them better.

And I'm assuming, and I'm sorry. Cause this is I do. So that was a last question, but I've just thought, I'm

assuming that if you go to a retailer and they say, no, thank you. Or perhaps they don't even response. And then on the back of that, you maybe make some changes where if it's your package and wherever it's to your pricing, can you then go back to them and say, you know, we've made this change for you? Or are you interested now?

Yeah, of course. I think that happens quite a lot in general, you know, people and perhaps not putting their wholesale prices with margins that work for retailers, for example. And then they listen to, is one of the workshops I've done or maybe work on a one-to-one with me or something and we adjust their pricing and they go back and they actually get stuck somewhere because they are now I have an offering that they can buy into and have confidence behind.

Well, that's, that's USEFUL. Thank you. So its good to know that I know my actually just to be not now, but it might not be. Yeah.

And also it doesn't have actually have to have anything to do with your products either or price. It could just be that they had two weekends that has been really slow, so they don't have the budget, but when you contact them a month later, they had an amazing two weekends and they are lots of budget and they need to spend it. So it can be lots of different reasons and don't feel like it had, it means that they don't like your products.

So that's the really good advice as well. I really like that. And the fact that it's not personal. So thank you for sharing that too, because you were right. Of course it, it might have absolutely nothing to do with you. The reason that they are not choosing to stock your product at the moment. And often it's like that

Thing we talked about before, you know that they have something really similar and they want to be loyal to that supplier. You might not know that, especially now when we can visit their shops and you can't know what they have coming in any way.

Yeah. Well thank you for sharing that because I think, you know, there might be someone that actually needs to hear that. So thank you. I think that was a really nice Bing for people to hear, because I think especially if you've created your own products, it can be a bit personal if someone doesn't like it or because you're quite invested in it. So I can, I can see that, you know, people could feel quite hurt by that. And I think, you know, sure why I have in, in the past, they haven't sort of done anything along these lines for a long time. But back

when I was trying to get stuck in vitro and as you did, you can't take a note, there's like a bit of a, a blow. So I think that's really a, something really nice to people to just hold onto that. And it might be nothing to do with you or your product. It could be something completely external to you that you may never even know about.

You might never yeah. The chances, all that they are not going to say, you know? Of course. So just to assume if they are not going to get back to you, then they assume that they love your stuff, but it wasn't right for right now instead of assuming the worst. Yeah.

Oh yeah. Oh, I think there was an accident notes and on, so thank you so much for everything that you've shared today and for all of you for your time and for sharing all of your knowledge And yeah. For bringing in a bit of a positivity to this. So thank you so much.

Well, thank you. It's been great. Thank you so much for having me. It was really kind of you, so it's nice to come and have a chat and also hear like how do you know what things are important to you and how you see it? Especially since you are hot, you would do supply shops. It's always nice to have a chat. Yeah.

Oh, thank you so much. Thank you. Hi. Thank you so much for listening as always. I've absolutely love to know what you thought of this episode. Please do remember to rate and review the show and also most importantly subscribed. So you don't miss out on any future episodes. And as a reminder, I release a new episode every single Friday. So take care of it forward to speaking to you again then. Yeah.