Using SEO to get your products found – with Maddy Shine

Using SEO to get your products found – with Maddy Shine Vicki Weinberg (00:00:00):

I made the window say small wedding lost it. Right. Okay. Here we go. So you are listening to today's episode, presumably because you have a product to sell or maybe we'll do seen for people to buy your products. They need to be able to find it. Today's guest Maddy Jones helps awesome women grow their businesses by being more visible, she's going to share what she does and what you can do to help people find your products and your services. If that applies more easily. So, hi Maddy. Thank you for being here.

Maddy Shine (00:00:28):

Hello. Hi, Vicki. Nice to at nice to be here. Thanks so much for inviting me on this brilliant podcast. Super excited to have a chat.

Vicki Weinberg (00:00:36):

Yeah, me too. So can we start please by giving us introduction to yourself, your business and what it is that you do?

Maddy Shine (00:00:43):

Absolutely. So, hi everyone. I'm Maddy Jones. I'm usually known as Maddy Shines, cause that's my Instagram name. Lots of people think that's my actual surname. One day I might change it by Depot, who knows, but basically I am known as the SEO and visibility queen. It's a title like gladly accepts, but I absolutely love helping small businesses get found online. That's essentially what I do.

Vicki Weinberg (00:01:13):

Amazing. Thank you. So let's start right at with the basics. Can you tell us what SEO is in really simple terms? I mean, I'm sure most of us have had SEO before, but I think it's still a good place to start.

Maddy Shine (00:01:28):

Absolutely. So I'm sure that when many people see the letters SEO, they're filled with a cold dread, like no other suddenly they're thrown back into maths class at school and they're thinking, Oh Lord, I don't know where on earth to begin. Well, in really simple terms, SEO stands for search engine optimization and it's all about being seen more online. Everyone wants to get to page one of Google because let's face it who clicks through to page two when you Google anything at all. And so basically what I do is I help people figure out what they want people, what they want to be found on page one of Google for because most people don't know.

Maddy Shine (00:02:09):

So that's, that's the fun bit. That's kind of figuring out what your business is about and how you can be seen by more people.

Vicki Weinberg (00:02:17):

Amazing. Thank you. So that's basically thinking about if someone were to go to Google and type something

in, what would they need to type for you to come up you at your product or your service?

Maddy Shine (00:02:28):

Exactly, exactly. And the thing is there, isn't just one thing that your business is. So there, wasn't just one thing that your business sells. You sell a multitude of different products, you have different product ranges that meet different people's needs, different people's wishes and desires and all these wonderful things that you all sell. But most people kind of try and box themselves in and put all their eggs in one basket. And what I try and do is actually help open all that up. And so what I say is SEO stands for exciting opportunities because in my book, internet is full of limitless opportunities and it's up to us to actually make use of that.

Vicki Weinberg (00:03:10):

I like that. And I, and I agree. I think even if you are only selling the one product that there probably are different, you know, there might be different people looking for that different product for different reasons. Or even if it's the same person, you know, they might have different, like for example, I sell swaddle blankets, but some people might be looking for some things to cover their baby in the pram. Or some people might be looking, you know, they might not be looking for them for swaddling is what I'm trying to get at.

Maddy Shine (00:03:36):

Exactly. Exactly. They might not know that word yet. Or they might be calling it something completely different or it might be a cultural difference. The thing is we can't assume that everyone thinks and talks like us. And so one of the sort of fun little games in SEO is figuring out what else do people call what we sell? And also there are different variations. There are different colors, there are different sizes, no doubt, you know, all this kind of thing. But we also underestimate the importance of when we're thinking about how to be seen by all those wonderful people, waiting with their wallets to buy us.

Vicki Weinberg (00:04:11):

So how would you go about working out? What, what, I mean, I'm, I'm going to call these keywords. Imagine if you use a different phrase, so I'm going to, I'm going to use keywords. How would you go about knowing what keywords you should be using on your website, on your social copy? Wherever?

Maddy Shine (00:04:28):

Well, this is, this is a fantastic question because a lot of people, they kind of go, okay, well, okay, so let's use the swaddle blankets example, right? I call them swaddle blankets. Therefore I'm going to stick the word swaddle and blankets all over my website and then hope that I'll get to page one of Google position, one for swaddle blankets. Well, that might be all very well and good. And you might actually see a great surge. You might actually see, you would get to page one, but you wouldn't necessarily stay there. And so what we need to do is actually think about what else are people using these blankets for? How else would they describe them? What kind of variations? Like I was just mentioning with the colors and the sizes and whatever, and the uses of these swaddle blankets.

Maddy Shine (00:05:11):

And so this is what we actually do start brainstorming. We need to start thinking, okay, what are the different variations? And the longer the phrase, the more likely you are to get to page one, to be honest, however, the longer the phrase, you also reduce the size of the potential audience. So this is why it's great to spread your

bets. If you like, you know, and not put your eggs in one basket. And so you could have a whole list of different phrases, different combinations. So for example, if, if it was geographically dependent to your product, so you only deliver to a certain area, you know, I work with lots of florists, so they're delivering, you know, dried flower arrangements right now, reefs, you know, things like this.

Maddy Shine (00:05:54):

And so what we're looking at is the geographic as well. So basically you need to think about, okay, not just the different variations and the sizes and the different ways that people describe it, but also the different locations you want to deliver to. And so when people are Googling wherever they're based, then Google's going to say,

ah, they're also based in London, I'm going to show more London results. Or I'm also based in this tiny little village out in the middle of rural England then. Yeah. Great. So that, they're only within a mile of me. So this is where we start with knowing what our keywords are and then we can actually get to the fun bit, which is actually adding them onto the websites.

Vicki Weinberg (00:06:34):

So would you literally start by just almost brainstorming all of the keywords you believe?

Maddy Shine (00:06:39):

Exactly. Exactly. But it's important to realize that it's never a single word. It's at least two words in a phrase because that's what a lot of people get tripped up on because they think they hear the word keywords and they think, Oh, it's just one word. So it's a swaddle and blankets, but actually it's important to put those phrases together. So for example, blue swaddle blankets for newborns, or, you know, blue swaddle blankets for proms, whatever it might be. And so actually, like I said, like the, the longer the phrase, the more likely you are to get seen on page one and the more likely you are to be more visible.

Vicki Weinberg (00:07:12):

And is there any way you can go or any tools you can use online to help with this? Cause what I'm thinking is, so say for example, using my example, I decided I was going to go all out on swaddle blankets, but I might be the only person who uses swaddle blankets. And it might be that my customers use completely different words or it might be that I could get to page one for swaddle blankets, but actually not many people search for that. So is there anything you can do to kind of sense check what you're thinking? Yeah. Any tools you can, you can use to get an idea of the kinds of traffic you'd be looking at.

Maddy Shine (00:07:43):

Absolutely. So it's important then once you've done all that brainstorming to actually then see, okay, what are people actually using? And there's so many different tools and apps that you can use to see how many people on average per month are using this phrase in, you know, in Google basically. But the app that what the tool that I really like to use, because it's really low cost, there are loads of expensive ones, but you know, we're small businesses. So we like to keep costs low. And so the one that I like to recommend is keywords everywhere. And it works like a Chrome browser extension. So you can have it right there in Chrome, whenever you're using the internet. And then essentially when you test on different phrases, it will come up with an approximate search volume.

Maddy Shine (00:08:28):

Now it's not massively accurate. It's simply an indication it's simply like, Oh, okay. So 2000 people a month are searching for that. But only to 200, maybe you're searching for something else that you actually thought might be quite popular. However, this is why I suggest doing all the brainstorming work first, because of course the longer the phrase, the less people are going to be searching for it anyway. But if you know that you really want to do a push on say blue sort of blankets, as opposed to any other color, then it's important for you to work on the sea, fold that product range that you really want to push. And so this is where people sort of get hung up on the tools rather than the brainstorming work. So this is why I say it's kind of like a two-part thing, but keywords everywhere.

Maddy Shine (00:09:11):

It was the one that I would recommend.

Vicki Weinberg (00:09:13):

Thank you. And I will link to that in the show ads. Okay. So brainstorm fast, then go and use it all and, and see it. And I guess using the tool, you might also get some other ideas to add to your brainstorm.

Maddy Shine (00:09:25):

Exactly. So the great thing about keywords everywhere is that in Google, then it would actually give you a list down the side of other phrases, similar phrases that people are also searching for. So it's really, really useful tool.

Vicki Weinberg (00:09:37):

So we're going to do all this work. It ends up a list of phrases and keywords. How many is too many or is there such a thing as too many bearing in mind that we actually want to be able to use these? I guess we also want to use them in a way, and I'm sure you'll talk more about this. That sounds natural. And doesn't sound like we're just stuffing our website with keywords. Is, is there such a thing as too many,

Maddy Shine (00:09:58):

There's not such a thing as too many keyword phrases, but there is such a thing as overusing them on your

website. And I'm a little bit hesitant sometimes to mention overusing them because some people get kind of, they want any excuse not to use them at all. You know, like it's like, Oh no, no, no. I want to, the aesthetic is more important to me, but you know, I often say that a beautiful website is all very well and good, but it just sounds like an expensive art gallery. If you're not actually getting the visitors and the sales that you need to have a sustainable business. And so I'm all about, okay, are you being valuable with the use of your keywords? So you can have a great long list of keyword phrases. If you've got loads of different product ranges, Hey, keep me on.

Maddy Shine (00:10:41):

If you've just got one main product that you sell and just different variations of that, there isn't really such a thing as too long, a list of keywords. You just have to check using tools like keyword everywhere to actually see whether people are actually using them and then prioritize use of certain ones off your list. But it does also change depending on the seasons. You know, that markets obviously change market demand changes. You know, I mean, heaven knows this, the sale of DIY products has shot up in pandemic times. You know? So there's all sorts of kind of trends to kind of think about and that kind of thing, but not really, no, you can have as many keywords as you like.

Vicki Weinberg (00:11:20):

Okay. So something else you've just highlighted there, which I hadn't really thought about is it sounds like this isn't static, so it's not like you do some work on your SEO and then you forget about it. It's somebody you need to be visit. So how often should someone be revisiting? And I imagine that it's not so much work to go, you know, to review your SEO and as it is to get everything in place in the first. So how often should we be sort of revisiting what we've done?

Maddy Shine (00:11:49):

Well, of course, in an ideal world, as often as everyone's checking Instagram, but yeah, that was not

Vicki Weinberg (00:11:54):

Happening, is it?

Maddy Shine (00:11:56):

And so, you know, but the thing is it's like with working on your SEO, you need to be working on your SEO regularly and consistently just like you're working on your marketing consistently. And of course that's a very ideal world scenario, but really you need to be setting aside time every week. However, that does not mean that you have to overhaul everything every week. So with the keyword review, for example, you could be reviewing it once a quarter. So then you'd be looking at the seasons ahead. You you'd have some data to look at. Okay, what were people typing in? How have I been doing on the ranking? How have I been using it in my blogging or my product pages on the rest of my website, it's basically, then you can do kind of like a review and then a plan.

Maddy Shine (00:12:38):

So I kind of liked to think of things in a three stage model, if you like. So I've got plan, create and measure, which isn't very sexy. I know, but it's so absolutely vital to create that sustainable model of marketing. And also, you know, in an includes in that is your SEO to promote your business appropriately and successfully.

Vicki Weinberg (00:13:02):

And what, how would you review your SEO? So would you use the same keyword tools you use for sort of better coming up from your keywords?

Maddy Shine (00:13:11):

Yes, absolutely. So what you want to do is you want to see, okay, how well am I doing on my keyword rankings? So don't just be a good yourself with those phrases because Google knows who we are. They know they, they, they stalk us and you can't do it in a private browsing tab. And don't ask your husband's computer at work or anything like that. There are certain apps. So the app I like to use for Apple phones, SEO edge, and for Apple. So for Android phones, it's SERP mojo, and I'll share the links with you for the show as well. And basically on there, you add in all the keywords you add in your website, and it will tell you your position on Google. So you can actually have a look at that on a monthly basis, like, okay, which keywords do I really want to get to page one for like sooner rather than later.

Maddy Shine (00:13:56):

And so therefore I need to be using those more in the content I put out. And then, so when you come to actually review the keyword list, like once a quarter, okay, all these working for me are really the most appropriate. I might getting lots of clicks, but not conversions. That's a really important one. So looking at the thing that everyone's scared of Google analytics and actually having a look just at the, even at that first graph, are you getting lots of clicks to your website, but actually not as many sales as you'd like. And so basically this is how you begin to review your SEO. These are the kind of basics really

Vicki Weinberg (00:14:31):

Thank you. And if you are getting lots of collects, but not many sales, what do you think that indicates?

Maddy Shine (00:14:38):

Well, it could indicate all sorts of different things. Couldn't it? It's basically, if you're getting lots of clicks and not as many sales, maybe you're not communicating the message of what you're selling enough. So I've learned this the hard way for sure. You know, selling my courses. And basically I've had, I've hired a new Facebook ads manager at the beginning of the year. And she was like, okay, we need to look at the messaging because I was like, but it's clear to me, but it's but essentially what was working, what was happening was I wasn't conveying the benefits sooner soon enough, essentially. So people were clicking through going, Oh yeah, blue spotter blanket. That sounds great. And then going, actually the, maybe the

price was more than expected.

Maddy Shine (00:15:21):

Maybe the photo, you know, there could be any kind of aspect, but that means, of course there's always work to be done on, on your website. You know, it's a, you've always got to be tweaking, having a look, seeing what you could optimize. And I know that many people listening to this will be like, Oh my goodness, I've already got a massive to do list on my website. I want to do this and this and this. But a lot of people aren't strategic with the changes they want to make with their website and their visibility. They're like, Oh, that will be nice to have, rather than what's the business benefit of doing that. So essentially there's a few kind of key aspects to have a lookout with your website. Of course, there's the images, there's the wording. And there's obviously there's the branding, but with the wording, I think a lot of people underestimate this, particularly when it's their own business, they'll focus on the beautiful images.

Maddy Shine (00:16:08):

They'll focus on the beautiful branding. Then there'll be put off by the fact that it's quite hard work to edit your website. Then there'll be put off because actually Instagram, summit sexier. Oh, and what about Pinterest? And all these things are all very vital as well. I'm not knocking them. Lord knows I love Instagram. But the thing is we do actually have to look at the words we're communicating with and not underestimate how persuasive they can be and how important they are when we're selling our products. Thanks.

Vicki Weinberg (00:16:38):

Okay. And I'd actually like to talk for a moment about, we've been talking around websites and about websites anyway. I'd actually really like you to talk about why it's important to have your own website because many people create products and they think, well, I'm going to sell them on Etsy. I'm going to sell them on Amazon or any other marketplace. And all of those platforms have their own SEO built in, and there's various things you have to do to get found. But why do you believe it's important to have your own website, even if you intend to make most of your sales? Sorry,

Maddy Shine (00:17:05):

My mouse, well, I, I'm a massive fan of the, you might've heard of this. The older Dodge know like, and trust. I believe that having our own website shows that you are not just an established business, but that you know your stuff and people in this day and age, people buy from people. We don't want to buy from big corporations so much anymore. I mean, apart from the ethics question, there's also just simply, we want to support small businesses more and more. We want to support independent businesses. And if you have your own website, then people have that. You know, I call it the smoke factor where they're like, I don't have to get to I in for this. I went and bought from a small business.

Maddy Shine (00:17:45):

Look, I'm, I'm only, I'm only shopping, smallest Christmas. You know, there's this kind of wonderful vibe of

supporting people. So actually by you having your own website, you are only benefiting yourself by having one, as in, sorry, you're benefiting everyone one, but you're only, it's only ever going to be a valuable thing in your life rather than a hindrance. Because if you're solely relying on other biggest platforms, Etsy, Amazon, eBay, whatever it is, that's fine. But then you're sort of at the whim of their algorithm as well. You constantly have to be working for them, essentially. You know, you're helping them have a big platform. And what you need to be doing is actually building up your own platform.

Maddy Shine (00:18:29):

You need to be building up your own web presence. So have your own website, have your own Instagram, have your own Pinterest Facebook. And you know, I was working with at least lingerie maker. Who's based in Brighton. We worked together a few years ago now and she was debating the move from Etsy cause Etsy was doing so well for her and continues to do very well for her. And she was saying to me, Oh, you know, do you think we need to set up our own website? I properly not just have like a one pager. I said a hundred percent, because up until then, she'd had the empty shopping embedded in her website. And actually what we did was we created a full e-commerce website with her so that she was like, okay, right, this is great.

Maddy Shine (00:19:11):

So, so she can actually work on her own SEO and have much more control. She has ownership over her website. She has control. And you know, if she upsets the FCA algorithm for whatever reason, prey that she doesn't, but if she does, then she's got her own website doing well on SEO.

Vicki Weinberg (00:19:30):

That was great. Thank you. And yeah, I'm also an advocate of having your own website. I think it's really important and you know, there's all these other benefits. You can build your own email list. You can say what you want. Pretty much you, there are no rules about how you do anything. Yeah. I always think it's a good idea. And we spoke a little bit earlier. You mentioned keeping your website fresh. Now I've had that. Having a blog is a good way to do this. So perhaps you could talk a little bit around, you know, how having a blog can help your SEO. And then we can maybe go into some more details afterwards about what you'd actually, you know, how you'd actually go about doing that. So let's start with, why do you believe having a blog is get dressier?

Maddy Shine (00:20:09):

Well, where else are you going to tell your stories, share your expertise, share your experience and increase that trust factor with your customers who, you know, like I was just been set, like I've just been saying, people really want to get to know us. People really wants to buy from small businesses. They want to support independent brands. And this is the thing. So if, if we have a blog, this is the easiest way for people

to get to know us. Yes, we've got Instagram, but again, we're at the, you know, at the whim of their algorithm, whereas on a bloke you're like, okay, I'm kind of getting to know this person. They get to share their stories. They get to show off maybe photo shoots. They were involved in or event, you know, virtual events,

obviously at the moment, but events they were involved in or whatever it might be.

Maddy Shine (00:20:53):

And this is the thing. So you're, you're opening yourself up to a lot more opportunities. It goes back to that seeking exciting opportunities I was talking about at the start. I really believe that a blog is where you communicate your value and we need to, in order to stand out, we need to communicate that value. And lots of people like, Oh, I'm not a good writer. You know, I'm not, I'm not, it doesn't feel natural to me, but nothing did when we first started did it, you know, my first class I ever taught eight years ago, wasn't amazing. It was okay. The audience thought it was okay. They hired me. But you know, like it was, if you compare now and then, you know, nobody ever starts off amazing right.

Maddy Shine (00:21:37):

At anything. And so actually just by sort of, you know, testing out different ideas, seeing what people clicked through to all this kind of stuff, you can actually see what works and actually gives you more material for your social media, because then you can say, okay, I can break down. So say for example, you did like a, how to tutorial on your blog. You can then see if that works well, you can create a video for it. You can put the video

on social media. You can also embed it in the blog post. You can, you know, if say you have like a 10 step process in that tutorial, you can share one step per day for 10 days. That's 10 days of social media content, right there. That's 10 reels, you know, to use the latest trend.

Maddy Shine (00:22:17):

There's all sorts of different ways that you can then use that blog content in different ways and just, and see what works with your audience and actually make life easier for yourself.

Vicki Weinberg (00:22:27):

I guess it helps keep your website fresh as well. So, you know, if you're selling products, but you know, you've got the same range and everything else is pretty static, which I think websites tend to be date and age. Well, I'm talking from my own experience now. There's only so often that I actually go and look at my product descriptions, for example, cause they're pretty good. And they're nice. And yeah, I think the blog is actually the only part of the site that potentially will get updated every week or if your mom, especially as yeah, people got big to-do lists,

Maddy Shine (00:22:57):

Ultimately, sorry. I was just going to say, ultimately, the blog is so good for SEO because web Google and other search engines like websites that are regularly updated. And so a blog is the easiest way to show that your website is regularly updated. That's what it comes down to ultimately. But yeah, it's obviously all these other benefits that I'm quite passionate about.

Vicki Weinberg (00:23:19):

They're all really good. But assuming that someone's main purpose of creating a blog is for SEO. So, you know, we were blogging maybe around our products or around our services in the, you know, to try and share our expertise and share, you know, features and things like that. How would we go about doing that? So making sure that we created blog posts that are useful, but also you are gonna get to help with our SEO. We're going to get people over to our site.

Maddy Shine (00:23:50):

Okay. So the first thing is that you need to be blogging for adding value first and SEO second. Okay. Because basically Google more and more is looking for valuable information rather than, Oh, they put the correct keywords in. So therefore they must know what they're talking about. So basically you have to be sharing valuable content. So question and answer format is a great format. So the blog title is a question you've written a blog post as the answer, how to do tutorials are also brilliant, different ways that you can use your products, things that might compliment your products or the businesses that you can interview that could compliment your products, different kinds of ideas like this.

Maddy Shine (00:24:32):

You could then be thinking, okay, I can use my keywords in different kinds of ways on these blog posts. They're valuable information because I'm sharing my expertise and therefore people will hang around longer because time spent on site is also an SEO factor.

Vicki Weinberg (00:24:49):

That's good. Thank you. So I guess you would have to write your blog post your useful blog posts to adds value. So for example, I might write something on why it's good to swaddle your baby for example, or how to swaddle your babies, maybe a better example. And then once that piece was written, I could just go through and say, have I included some, at least of my main keywords in this post in a way that kind of doesn't isn't jobs?

Maddy Shine (00:25:14):

Absolutely. So for every blog post and every page of your website in each choose one focus, keyword phrase from your list that you've brainstormed and put through the tools I mentioned earlier. So then what you do is go, okay, so I've got one focus. It's not just stop you mentioning any others, but at least you've then got a focus. So say for example, it's blue swaddle blankets, then let's use that example. So you would use that phrase in the title in the first paragraph of the blog post at least one other time in the blog post content. And then also in the bit that's called the meta-description. Now, if you, if you've Google things before presumably everyone has, then you'll see that the text appears in Google. It's just like a little excerpt.

Maddy Shine (00:25:55):

It's got title and link and little excerpt of the blog post or page, right? So that's known as the meta description. So we want to do is we want to get the keyword in there as well, because that also then

indicates to Google and therefore to more customers. What whereabouts

Vicki Weinberg (00:26:09):

That's good. Thank you. I've actually just become aware of some of those things. I, my blog is on WordPress and I recently installed something called Yoast, which actually prompts you to fill in all of these fields. And before doing that, I had no idea that's what I was meant to do. I feel I was meant to just put a few keywords in the text, but that's quite a nice if anyone else was using WordPress, I don't know what you think about that, Maddie. But I quite like the fact that it's like almost like a checklist to actually put my keywords in all of the right places. Yeah,

Maddy Shine (00:26:39):

Just absolutely brilliant. I'm a big fan of Yoast because like you say a checklist and it has got a traffic light system, red, orange, and green. And so if you turn it green, you're like, yes, I've done all the things to satisfy Yoast. So therefore I'm going to be more visible on Google. If it's Amber, then it will give you some little alerts, the things that you need to go back through and check on either your blog post or a webpage of your website. If your website is also on Google is also on WordPress. And then if it's red, then that means you've got a few more things to change. Now, one thing that I would say there is what lots of people then come and tell me is like all Maddie, I just changed the keyword so that it would turn green. I didn't actually change the content of the blog post.

Maddy Shine (00:27:20):

And so that's what you need to be careful about when you're looking at, when you're using XCX is a brilliant tool, but change the content of your blog post to suit the keyword phrase. Not the other way around.

Vicki Weinberg (00:27:30):

Yeah. So it's not just about making it turn green. You've actually got to do.

Maddy Shine (00:27:34):

Yeah, exactly. Yes.

Vicki Weinberg (00:27:37):

That makes sense. So are there many other ways we can know if our websites are well organized for SEO? So obviously if you're using WordPress yeah. Yost is great for making sure that your posts, your pages are well optimized. Is there, is there any other, any other tools or things that you would recommend people take a look at, if you want to know how well you're doing?

Maddy Shine (00:27:59):

Yeah. There's, there's so many tools out there on the internet to be honest, but the main ones I've already mentioned, so the keyword tracking apps or SEO edge and cert mojo, and then there's also, I mean, you

could use SEM rush. That's a brilliant tool as well as a free version of that, which will take on one website. And so then actually that will also highlight kind of miss, you know, review your website, some basics essentially, obviously, without wanting to pay a fortune. But essentially what you need to be doing is seeing how your SEO ties in with the rest of your marketing plan. And so that's what I teach essentially how it all is integrated together.

Maddy Shine (00:28:40):

That's essentially why I created my business because what I saw was there was like all this amazing SEO advice out there for people who already knew a lot about SEO. And so it was catering to the SEO experts. And so I saw that there was kind of this big gap of why is no one speaking like a human being, Hey, you know, like I find, I find a lot of SEO advice boring because it's only for SEO experts. And I really like, as you probably can tell, I love talking, but I also love talking like a human being. So essentially why I created my courses. That's why you're here as well,

Vicki Weinberg (00:29:16):

Because you're making this stuff really interesting. Other than text, are there any, is there anything else we can be doing on our websites help with visibility? So I've heard for example, that you need to be making sure your product images contain metadata. Could you talk a little bit to that because I don't really know.

Maddy Shine (00:29:36):

Okay. So there's three stages to image tagging. That's what it's known against. Okay. So before you load up the images to your website, you need to make sure that they're not too big. And so there's two different ways to determine the size of an image. There's the actual file size, which you can just see very easily. You know, when you click on the image, there's also the physical size of it, the height and the width. And basically what most people do is they get the photos, whether they've taken them themselves or whether they've got a photographer to do it. And the images are beautiful, but they're massive. They're like 3000 pixels wide. Right. And actually it's not going to be displayed like that. It's gonna be displayed like 400 pixels wide on your, on your website.

Maddy Shine (00:30:18):

Right? So what we need to do is we need to reduce the site height and the width down as first of all. So that the website doesn't have to work harder than it needs to be because that slows the website down and ultimately is not good for your SEO. Then we should do is make sure that the actual file size. So again, it's sort of like, if you think about like the, the storage space that it's requiring, we need to think about that as well. So you can re use the, I use, I don't like to use, I don't use Photoshop or anything like that. I use a website called tiny JPEG, and I'll also give you the link for that in the show notes. So you just upload it for free. You can do up to five minutes at a time, and then it basically compresses the image. It's, you know, it's like when you zip a file, it's like just compressing it like that.

Maddy Shine (00:31:03):

So basically that's what you do that. And then you rename the image and when you rename the image, it's great to get, of course your keyword phrase in there. So let's say for example, blue swaddle blanket for newborns. Okay. So you're really describing what the product is, or you're trying to get your keyword phrase in that in a natural kind of way. Don't kind of go blue commerce, swaddle, calmer blankets, common newborns, calmer. That's what lots of people used to do. And actually it's not natural. So therefore Google caught onto that. Google realized that that's not how people Google anymore. And essentially you rename the file and then you upload it to your website. Now not people will be listening to this and going, but Marty, I've got loads of images already on my website.

Maddy Shine (00:31:45):

Does that mean I have to go back through them all? Well, maybe, maybe the great way to check whether your website is being slowed down by your images is to go to a website called GT metrics.com. And I'll again, I'll share the link with you. Basically. It will show you which images are slower. If any, slowing down your website, it's a great way to test the speed of your website. Okay. So it might be that you actually don't have even that many images on your website at this point. So you're thinking, okay, right. I've got the images there. What do I do if they're already loaded? And actually you can go in and add what's called alt text. And so alt text, Google loves Altecs, right? All texts is what would appear if the image didn't load for whatever reason.

Maddy Shine (00:32:29):

So Google can't read images. You know, it can't read text. If you put it in on Photoshop and it's texts within the image and things like that, what we need to do was actually inform Google what the image is of. So alt text is literally what the image is. So baby in blanket, you know, so it might be quite similar to what we've already named the file. But actually what we need to do is be very, very literal, you know, girl playing with ball. You know, I do, I work with a lot of wedding businesses, so it's like bridesmaids in gray dresses, walking down aisle, you know, literally what's in the image and then once you've added, so you've added it to the website page.

Maddy Shine (00:33:10):

You've added it to your blog post. You've added the old text. And once it's published, you pin it to Pinterest. Okay. Now lots of people going, Oh, I don't even know where to start with Pinterest. Or maybe you'll maybe use Pinterest a lot. No, maybe, maybe when maybe you use Pinterest a lot, but not necessarily for your business. Maybe you don't know where to start. So actually a great way to do this is to set up boards with your keyword phrases, for your product ranges and then pin images to your Pinterest boards in that way. And then the alt text often comes up depending on the website platform, but usually as your default caption on Pinterest.

Maddy Shine (00:33:52):

That's interesting.

Vicki Weinberg (00:33:53):

Thank you. And do you use your brand name in either the old text or in the name, you know, when you're actually renamed in the physical image?

Maddy Shine (00:34:02):

Not often. Sometimes you can, if you like, basically what happens is, you know, you you've clicked on Google images before, right? So when you're, when you're looking at Google, there's also the images tab and essentially your website name will come up with the image and then it will have like the old text, you'll see it next to it. And sometimes they'll call out the brand name, but to be honest, because people aren't Googling your brand's name yet, you're kind of wasting valuable real estate there. And what you want to do is you want to focus on what people are Googling. Okay.

Vicki Weinberg (00:34:32):

Is there a character, could you talk about the real estate? Is there a character limit of when you're naming

Maddy Shine (00:34:38):

There isn't a character limit, but you know, between 40 and 60 characters, roughly, but to be honest, don't, don't panic about that. Cause like it's always changing so simply right. What's, you know, focus on the content rather than, you know, the specific yeah. Details like that basically

Vicki Weinberg (00:34:58):

Tonight. Thank you. And just a few final questions if that's okay, Maddt. So is it just about websites? We've obviously spoken a lot about websites. Is it just about websites or is there anything else we should be, could be doing to help ourselves and our products

Maddy Shine (00:35:14):

Be more visible? So basically we need to tie it all in with how we're already promoting our businesses. Of course, social media is a thing that's here to stay. It's not going anywhere. But really what I like to say is social media is like the flyer for the gig and the website is the gig itself. So basically, you know, you want to get people in to see the act, right? You want to get people in so you can persuade them right there on your to make more sales because social media people scroll, you know, you want to catch their attention, but also you want to get more awareness from other websites. So you need to be looking at getting links. So you need to be to get your links, maybe getting interviewed, getting press features, getting, you know, I'll get a back link from, from this podcast to my website, you know, looking at other websites, seeing where actually I could lend my expertise to them or, you know, I could do a collaboration with them and then I would get a link back to my website.

Maddy Shine (00:36:14):

And then basically that's how I would also increase my audience size.

Vicki Weinberg (00:36:18):

Perfect. Thank you. So things like guest blog posts, that kind of thing.

Maddy Shine (00:36:21):

Exactly. Guest blog posts hugely valuable.

Vicki Weinberg (00:36:24):

Now, am I right in thinking, this is a bit of a tangent, but I've heard something and I would like to, and I know you will know the answer. So when you was in a guest book place, is it correct that you can't just provide someone with a blog that you've written for your website or somewhere else and say, come and use this tax? Because my biting that I keep saying Amazon, am I right? That Google will sort of say, hang on. This exact same tax is in two places, three places wherever. And that's not a good thing, is that right?

Maddy Shine (00:36:53):

Absolutely. Yeah. You have to write fresh content. Yeah. It can be the same topic, but written fresh because Google doesn't like duplicate text. It will penalize you. Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg (00:37:04):

And say fresh tax means complete rewrite is can you get away with, I want to say get away if that doesn't sound good, but you know what I mean? Can you sort of revamp a blog post, you know, move it around a bit, change it up and put it in multiple places. Yeah. That's good. That's good to know. Cause I know sometimes the force of having to write, you know, completely new content all the time is a bit daunting. Isn't there, but you could sort of rework something you already have. It just can't be a complete duplication. Absolutely.

Maddy Shine (00:37:30):

Yes. Yes.

Vicki Weinberg (00:37:32):

Okay. That's good to know. Cause I'm sure that yeah. I know guest blogging particularly is quite popular. Isn't it? People quite like to have posts in other places, but the thought of having to write something new for everyone is quite daunting.

Maddy Shine (00:37:44):

Absolutely. Yes. Okay.

Vicki Weinberg (00:37:46):

Well thank you. I've got one final question if that's okay. Which is what is your well, do you have a number one sort of top SEO tip the one thing that you think that when someone finishes listening, now they can go off and do, and it was maker a difference.

Maddy Shine (00:38:03):

Yes. You need to set aside time in your calendar to look at this every week chip away. I said you can't eat a whole elephant at once. Even if you just start actually one tip that I've mentioned today, you've done a whole lot more than otherwise ignoring it and hoping for the best. That is my number one. Tip

Vicki Weinberg (00:38:23):

To go and get it in your calendar. Exactly. I'm a big fan of time blocking. That's really good. Thank you. And I think you're right. It's a lot of, it's not well for me South, if it's not in the calendar, it just isn't happening. That so just before we finish Maddy, I would love to know a little bit more about what you do, how people can find you and you know, if they wants to know more of, and perhaps work, if you will look at your courses at where should they go.

Maddy Shine (00:38:47):

Absolutely. So I would love to hear from you, please do come over and see me on Instagram at Maddy.shine, where I talk a lot about motivating you to do more of this kind of work. I danced a disco D teams is generally a good, good time or huddle rounds. And also you can check out my website, Maddyshine.co.uk, where you can check out my courses. I've got a membership called visibility for female entrepreneurs, helping them get more visible. And essentially you can sign up to the waiting list for the courses, but basically the doors will be open again, a new year, 600.

Vicki Weinberg (00:39:25):

So exciting. I'm actually, this will be going out in January. So perhaps you might have some space in your yes. Yeah.

Maddy Shine (00:39:32):

I'll probably have a free training that you, that you need to sign up to buy.

Vicki Weinberg (00:39:38):

Depending when you're listening to this, there may well be, it sounds like there's lots going on whenever you're listening and any trainings or anything going on, we'll make sure they're linked in the show notes as well so that we can send people there. Well, thank you so much for your time. I've loved talking to you. You've made this potentially dry subject really interesting, really actionable. And I really appreciate that. Thank you so much.

Maddy Shine (00:39:58):

Yeah, no problem at all. Happy to help. Thank you so much.