Using email marketing to sell your products – with Shona Chambers

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Welcome to the Bring Your Product Ideas to Life podcast, practical advice and inspiration to help you create and sell your own physical products. Here's your host, Vicki Weinberg.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:22

Today on the podcast, I'm delighted to have Shona Chambers join me. Shona was a returning guest. Um, she was on a few episodes, well, I say a few episodes ago. I think it was actually two years ago she was on, so doesn't time fly? Um, Shona is a marketing consultant and she's here today to talk specifically about how to grow your email list. She talks about why in these small business it's important to have a list, how you might grow it, and if you do have an email list of people on, you know, what sort of things should you be sending to them? How often, and hopefully all the other questions that you have on this subject. So I would love now to introduce you to Shona. Hi Shona thank you for joining me again.

Shona Chambers: 00:01:00

Lovely to be here. Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:03

Oh, you're welcome. So I've asked you to join today to talk specifically about email marketing because I know, um, from the little chat we've just had previously, that we both sort of feel that this is something that, um, would be a huge benefit to lots of businesses, especially at the moment. So we'll dig into that in just a second. But for anyone who hasn't listened to your previous episode with me, can you just give a brief introduction to yourself, your business, and who you help?

Shona Chambers: 00:01:27

Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, I'm Shona Chambers. I'm a marketing consultant. Um, I've been working in marketing for over 20 years now. Uh, started off working in media and finance for large corporates and then I went self-employed and started to help small business owners. Um, and nowadays I do a mix of both really. So, um, anyone who has a business, um, that needs help with their marketing, uh, then, you know, that is my audience really.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:55

Amazing. Thank you. And as I mentioned, I asked you on stage to talk about email marketing specifically. Um, so let's start with what might be a really obvious question about what is email marketing.

Shona Chambers: 00:02:07

So email marketing in its very simplest terms, is just having email addresses from your customers that you have permission to use, to contact and uh, to remain in communication with your customers.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:02:19

Amazing. Thank you. And, and I guess that when you say they've given you permission to email them, um, does that email list need to be on specific software or can it just be a spreadsheet or a Word document?

Shona Chambers: 00:02:32

Um, so long as someone's given you their permission to, um, mail them, then it doesn't actually really matter. Um, obviously for GDPR purposes, um, you need to keep a list of, um, people's, uh, written permission. So it is often easier to just use a tool like MailChimp, um, where every time an email address is added, if it's added by yourself, uh, you have to tick a box to say someone's given you permission to be on that. Um, and if somebody signs up, obviously they've taken the action themselves. So, um, that can be a really good way of doing it.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:03:05

Thank you. And I think as well, um, using an email provider, whether it's MailChimp or, I know there's lots of other options out there, I use MailChimp myself. Actually, I guess another advantage of that is people can unsubscribe easily if they want to as well.

Shona Chambers: 00:03:17

Absolutely. Yeah. That's really important to make sure that any email that goes out does actually have a link on it so that people can unsubscribe.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:03:26

Thank you. Okay, so we know what email marketing is. Um, can we talk a little bit about why it's important that people have an email list?

Shona Chambers: 00:03:34

Yeah, absolutely. So, um, I think in recent years it's become very fashionable to do all of your marketing on social media, um, and social media is very important, but, uh, we probably all know people who have had problems where maybe they've suddenly lost access to their accounts. Um, there was a very big account recently that has around 80,000 followers on Instagram. Uh, and lots of people do follow them, especially if they are, uh, people who make things for a living. Um, and they were, they lost access to their account essentially, and it was a massive problem for the, for the founder. Uh, and eventually she did manage to get it back again. But still, you know, um, it was a really difficult situation and I've seen that probably most weeks, somebody I know will lose access to their, um, Instagram account particularly. So, um, I mean, having an email list just means that you have got a bit of insurance for yourself that the people, uh, worked hard to build up relationships with, can actually still hear from you and, um, you own those addresses. Uh, if somebody's happy to be on your list, then that is something that you own as a marketing asset.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:04:48

That's great. Thank you. And I guess that also gives you the option, if you do lose access to your Instagram, for example, you have to start again. At least you can email your, your followers, your people on your list and say, this has happened. Come and find me here. Whereas otherwise, you've potentially lost all of those people.

Shona Chambers: 00:05:02

Absolutely. Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:04

And I see something similar, if you don't mind me mentioning Shona with um, other eCommerce marketplaces as well. So particularly Amazon sellers because you know, I work with a lot of Amazon sellers. Um, and one of the downsides of selling on Amazon is that you don't get the customer's email address. Um, and that can be really tricky because should you get kicked off Amazon, which it doesn't happen often, but does happen or your listings get shut down, it might be that someone just doesn't know where to find you. However, if you have them on an email list and something goes wrong, then you can sort of say, oh, actually my Amazon, you know, product isn't available on Amazon anymore, come to my website. Or even better, nothing has gone wrong and you've got a new product. Um, get them to buy on your website rather than sending them to Amazon, potentially. So I think there's definitely lots of reasons to be able to contact people directly rather than via third party marketplaces that, as you say, might get taken away from us at any time without warning.

Shona Chambers: 00:05:56

Yes, it's true, yep.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:59

So, um, I think we've, I think people hopefully will understand the benefits of having an email list, but I guess the harder thing is actually getting people to join it because, I don't know about you, but I, you know, you get popups every website I go on and every time you buy something, someone wants you to join their list. And we get a lot of email, don't we? Um, so what are some good ways of getting people to actually join our, our list and, and maybe a little bit later we'll talk about how to get them to stay as well.

Shona Chambers: 00:06:28

Yeah, well, I suppose one of the best ways to get people to join your email list is to suggest it to them at a time when they're actually engaged with you already. So, um, now that we're allowed to be back at shows and exhibitions, obviously you've got people walking around the show, you might have a stand to show. Um, so having a tablet around and just offering people the opportunity to sign up whilst they're already interested in other things that are right in front of them, that's a great way to do it. Now, um, if you are in a shop, you can equally have a, a, um, you know, near the till and maybe some messaging to suggest to people just pop in your, um, email address now. Um, and maybe you can incentivize people in some way. So a great way of doing that is to have something called a lead magnet, uh, which is simply something of value to your customer that they'll be happy to give their email address in exchange for. So a lot of people do, uh, if you are a service business, it could be, um, a PDF of some kind where you are giving useful tips to your customers in exchange for their email address and they'll get it as soon as they sign up. Um, or if you're a product business, you could offer a free sample of some kind. Um, you know, whether that's a tester of something or, uh, something small that just gives people a flavour of your business. So that's one way that I suggest to do that. Uh, and if it isn't in person, then you could maybe do it by your social media again. So, I think it's always so important to be giving value to people. Uh, nobody wants to be spammed, so they're way more likely to maybe listen to an Instagram live or a Facebook live and just decide at the end. Yes, I love this person's content, so I'm going to sign up to their email address, and that's why it's really important to just have a link in your bio that they can click and sign then and there. So I think people are much more likely to sign up to your email list, um, at a time when you are being engaging and interesting to them, rather than just having a box on your website and hoping that lots of people will jump on there and sign up because actually for me, that's probably one of the least ways that I get subscribers to my mailing list.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:08:33

Thank you. That's really interesting. And I mean, I know for myself, and this will sound a bit cynical as well, that, but really you want to be getting something from it, whether it's like you say you like that person, you want to hear more from them, you want exclusive content. A lot of people I follow have content in their newsletters that aren't on social media, for example. Or it might be that, you know, as you say, you're getting a discount. Um, I know that most of the retail businesses that I sign up to be on their email list is because if I know if I sign up, I'll get 20% off or, or whatever it is. Um, and I don't say that to be cynical at all, but I think that does work. And also hope, you know, the reason you've joined that email list to get that discount is because you are interested in in buying as well. And there's definitely been times where the only reason I've made a purchase is because I've signed up to list and got a discount. So yeah, I think that's something to consider as well. Um, and I'm also going to mention if you don't, if you don't mind Shona, that for people who sell on Amazon in particular, but I think this also applies to Etsy and other marketplaces. Um, another where you can do this, in fact you can do this when you sell anywhere, is to actually have something encouraging people to sign up within your product itself. Whether that's on the packaging, whether that's an insert. Um, I always recommend this to Amazon Sellers in particular because you don't get those customer details when you send out your product. Just have a little card in there that says, I don't know, come over to my website for 20% off, or come over to my website for this free guide that helps you make the most of your products, or whatever the thing is, and obviously that'd be different for everyone, but I think if you can give some sort of reason. You can do QR codes now. Someone only has to scan it to get to your signup page. Um, I don't know, my take on it is we have to be quite inventive because there are lots of people who want our attention and our email addresses. So I think you have to think about what we can offer that's valuable, but also maybe, yeah, valuable, but also maybe slightly different as well.

Shona Chambers: 00:10:27

Mm-hmm. Yes. That's a very good point. It's true. I mean, um, attention is time and attention are two of the most valuable commodities now because everyone is fighting for those things.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:10:39

Thank you. And so let's say we've got some people on our email list. Um, I don't know about you, I unsubscribe to lists constantly. So what kind of content can we send to people to keep them on our list, to keep them on our lists now that they're there?

Shona Chambers: 00:10:55

Yeah, I think this really comes down to understanding our audience. Um, so essentially the better that you know your audience and the people that you are writing for or talking to, uh, in your content, the better that connection is going to be. So, um, you'll probably know yourself that if you send out a messaging, uh, something that you have specifically thought about, the person who's going to receive it and think this is useful, I know that this is going to help people. So for example, for me, maybe I'm going to send out content, um, about, uh, things in the economy that people need to know about. You know, any trends that they might want to be aware of. So, uh, a recent article I read about was talking about the, with the, with the economy the way it is, people are still looking for those small treats. Um, so around the price of a lipstick. So, um, I was saying to people, you know, um, make sure you highlight for your audience. What is it you have that even if people aren't flush right now, even if they can't afford your 200 pound offer, what's your five pound offer? What's your 10 pound offer that people can still continue to, to sort of make that step towards you? And it often is a step towards you as well. If someone's prepared to buy a small something, then they're generally thinking that they'd like to do the bigger offer. So, um, I hope I've answered that properly, but I was just thinking about the fact that the more you invest in thinking about why am I sending this out? Why do people want this? Rather than just thinking, I want sales. You know, if, if all you want is sales, then people will get that vibe about your content. If you are helping, if you're giving value, then that is, you know, I would say how you get people to stop unsubscribing and stay on your list.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:12:39

That's really helpful. Thank you. I think you're right. There has to be something in the email that you actually want to read or it just becomes more, more noise, doesn't it? And I, and I think you're right as well, it's definitely going to differ from business. Um, and in terms of how often we should be in touch with our email lists, um, do we have to email them every week? Is every month okay? Um, because I know, like I'm very aware that this is something else, but anyone who doesn't have an email address yet or hasn't been contacted regularly, this is another job I suppose. Um, so what are your thoughts on how often we need to be doing that?

Shona Chambers: 00:13:15

Personally, um, I like to do a weekly email, um, on a Friday if I can, and I like to set that intention for people as well, that I'm going to send them an email every Friday. Um, I probably haven't deviated much from weekly, to be honest. Um, That's been because that works for me as a frequency. For example, if you might be launching something, whether, whether it's a product or a program, and there's a time scale involved, then I can see that you might want to be sending out emails twice a day for a certain period, but then you want to stop because otherwise people are just going to go away again. Um, so I think it's fine to ramp up the frequency at times if there's a reason. Uh, otherwise I think weekly is fine. Now some people do a monthly newsletter and that can have a lot of value as well. Um, I think any less than that, and you might not want to bother because people will start to forget. Why did they join your mailing list? Um, and I have worked with people where they've actually been so worried of losing people that they don't mail out either. So, you know, there's, there's those, um, those kind of two opposing positions really, that people need to hear from you too, like you, you know, if you think about the content creators that you like, you know, part of, uh, the reason you like them is because you feel like you know them. So if they suddenly go away and stop contacting you, the next time you hear from them, a whole load of new people are in your mind. So you don't have that same link to that person anymore. So recency is really important with email marketing. Uh, so if anyone is sitting there with an email list of, you know, several hundred names that they haven't mailed this year, then that's not a useful tool in your marketing toolbox.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:14:57

I'm going to ask you what we do, if that is the case in a minute, if that's okay Shona. Um, but I'd like to come back to the frequency and, and what you said about setting the expectation, and I think that's probably really important because I think when you sign up to an email list, I think I quite like to know, am I going to get emails every day? Am I going to get emails every? Week? Um, and I've noticed that some of the bigger companies now give you the option to yeah, sort of how often do you want to hear from me or what topics do you want to hear of? And I'm not saying everyone needs to be doing that, but I think there is something in knowing that, okay, I get this email every Friday and there's certainly some now that I, if, if it doesn't appear in my inbox, I think, where's that? I usually get that on a Thursday or whatever it is.

Shona Chambers: 00:15:38

And that's great that they've, they've trained you to, to feel that way, really because, uh, it is, it all depends on how you see yourself, but obviously, uh, we all have our favorite media sources. So for example, I'll go, I'll say it, you know, I love Eastenders. You know, you'll find me, every time Eastenders is on, I'll be, I'll be listening to that. Um, you know, and people have those things where they know it's coming and they, they look forward to it. So, um, obviously the media love it when, uh, Eastenders isn't on because the football's taking their place and it will all be, oh, fans were in arms because of this. So, um, it's quite funny. Really. I don't feel that way myself. I can wait. Um, but we do have that, you know, um, response built up that we know it's coming and we get excited. So if you then let people down, they can feel a bit like, oh, okay, well that didn't happen. So what else is that business owner not going to do that they said they would do?

Vicki Weinberg: 00:16:35

That's a really good point. I didn't think of it like that, that it does give an overall impression of the business and the business owner. It didn't even cross my mind, but you're right. If someone's sort of a bit sporadic and you know, not very reliable or let's say. Um, yeah, I didn't think that, you of course you would naturally have that impression of them. And I also liked what you said about if there's something going on, it's okay to email a bit more frequently. So for example, if you have a new product launch, um, and you've decided you're emailing once a month, I don't think that anyone should wait until you know, to that monthly email to launch their new products. I think that if you've got something exciting to tell people, something that's going to be, well, something that's going to be exciting and relevant to them, maybe not to you. Um, I think you're right that as much as you have a schedule, it's good also to, to sometimes deviate from that. And so I wanted to pick up on what you were talking about before. So let's say, um, you have an email address, maybe I've quite a healthy email address and you just haven't emailed them in ages. What do you do? Because I, I can definitely see it's one of those things where the longer you don't email them, the longer you are not going to email them, because the worse it feels and you can just get in one of these spirals. Um, so what do we do?

Shona Chambers: 00:17:49

Well, I mean, people will talk to you about a re-engagement campaign, um, which simply means looking at your email list and looking at who hasn't opened your emails over a certain period, who's a frequent opener, and who, you know, um, sometimes opens. That's generally how they break it down on these tools. So you could, um, you could segment for people. So literally just take out, say a hundred names that haven't opened your last emails. Um, or, you know, uh, if it is the case that your entire list haven't heard from you recently, then you can start kind of nurturing them again. So I would say you want to think about your high value content and start to email out maybe once a week again, letting them know, right, you know, I've been on a pause and now you're going to hear from me again. So it's just setting those intentions over the next, uh, four to six weeks, you're going to get, um, a series of messages about, uh, a specific topic. So, uh, it all depends on what you do, but if you're a coach or um, consultant, it could be that your series of emails are going to be how to cope with Christmas. If you're a retailer, that kind of, um, theme, uh, or it could be something like, uh, how do you design, uh, a product, you know, if you are thinking about doing it next year. So, uh, it's maybe if you are a photographer, you're going to talk to people about booking in for weddings in the spring because you know that's coming up. So again, it's, here I am and I'm now going to be in your mailbox and I'm going to be talking to you about these things. The people, you know, don't want to hear from you anymore. We'll just unsubscribe and the others will start to go back to being an active, um, you know, person on your email list again, which is what you want really.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:19:32

And what about for product businesses? Thank you for that, Shona. But for product businesses, I think that can sometimes be a bit tricky because often people think, and we have, and I know people say the same thing to me about social media, um, sometimes it's hard to go beyond talking about your product. And I have this for, for example, um, when it comes to emails, whether it's re-engagement or any emails as a product business, what kind of content could we be sharing, whether to re-engage or, or keep people engaged?

Shona Chambers: 00:19:59

Um, well, I suppose your products may not change, but the, uh, time of year might be changing. Uh, the reasons people might need you are changing. So it's trying to think about you know, how can I, uh, position this in a different way each time I contact someone? Uh, most things do have multiple uses and there'll be multiple reasons why people need them. So I think it's just really trying to be a bit more think around the customer. Don't think from your point of view, try and think about them, and that is the best way to bring people back to purchase.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:20:34

That makes a lot of sense. So I guess depending who your product is aimed for, that might help direct your content as well. So I don't know like if your content, if your product is aimed at parents, I've seen quite a few, um, baby brands for example, share a lot of content, you know, some of their own, several other peoples' that might be relevant to parents, your sleep tips. Mm-hmm. And. I can't even think of another example because I'm sort of out of the baby product stage now.

Shona Chambers: 00:20:59

Same.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:20:59

Yeah. But um, yeah, I, I think I've, I think I've seen businesses do that quite successfully though. So share content that might not be directly related to their product, but it's things that their ideal customer would be interested in.

Shona Chambers: 00:21:12

Yeah, you can also collaborate with other people on what content you share. So you might decide, um, you know, if you've got anyone else that you work with, maybe you're going to share some content for them in your emails. It's still interesting for your audience, and you can hopefully get them to do the same, which extends both of your email reach.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:21:31

That makes sense. Thank you. And so my final question, Shona and this is probably quite a big question, is what would your number one tip be for how to market your products in particular via email.

Shona Chambers: 00:21:45

Well, I think one of the biggest things that people miss is, uh, the welcome email. So, um, I would say, uh, that is the email that the most people are going to open from you ever. Some people might leave after the very next one you send. So making sure that your welcome email is set up, ready to go. I still find it really shocking when I sign up to an email list. Then I don't get an email back right away either thanking me for subscribing and giving me, um, information about the company, um, or directing me to where that business wants me to go next. So it's a massive step that I think a lot of people overlook. So for a product business, I would say make sure that your welcome email directs people to the products that you want to sell the most in your business. And that may not be your most expensive one. It may be that you lead people through a nurture sequence, um, that showcases say, you know, four or five things that you sell, but it's making the most of that welcome email. Um, power is really important.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:22:48

That makes sense. Thank you. And I think to add to that as well, I know in some of the email platforms, so I'm using MailChimp and this probably isn't a new thing, but it's a new thing to me as I've worked out, but I can also, um, have custom thank you pages. So once someone's actually added their email address, it brings them to another page that says, thank you for subscribing. And while that's only a really small thing. I think for a products business, maybe you could direct people to a product or actually on the page, they don't have to come out of their browser into their email and back again. Um, but I just think having something that, as you said that says, thank you for signing up, just gives you a bit of confidence as well. But yes, I actually did join that email list because I've seen something that says I have, when you press a button and nothing happens, it doesn't always leave you feeling well, did I, did I actually do that?

Shona Chambers: 00:23:33

Yes, it's true.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:35

And then also, as you said, you're then more likely as well, I think, to forget that you ever signed up for that in the first place.

Shona Chambers: 00:23:41

Definitely. Yeah. You don't want to leave people not hearing from you really.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:45

Thank you so much and thank you for everything you shared. I think it's really useful because especially as we were talking, especially now, um, when small business, having to work really hard to get sales. I think if email marketing isn't something you've tried or perhaps it's something you've tried but have gone away from, I definitely think it's worth investing in and giving it another go. Thank you so much for listening right to the end of this episode. Do remember that you can get the full back catalogues and lots of free resources on my website, vicki weinberg.com. Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it, and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful. Thank you again and see you next week.