Insights from a former retail buyer – with Sara Albright – Retail 100 Consulting

Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea To Life podcast. This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products or if you'd like to create your own product to sell.

I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly practical advice as well as inspirational stories from small businesses. Let's get started. Hi.

So today on the podcast, I'm speaking with Sara Allbright from Retail 100 Consulting. Retail 100 Consulting was founded based on Sara and her co founders combined 100 years of buying and merchandising experience.

Sara has 20 years of retail experience helping brands, sellers and associations grow their businesses and engage with consumers by sharing her knowledge and insights across a range of home and giftware categories. So Sara's background was she was a buyer for John Lewis for a very long time. It was 20 years in total.

And I think the most valuable insights are certainly got from this conversation was hearing from a buyer's side what's really required to get stocked in a big retailer? What does it actually mean? What's going to be expected of you?

And Sara was really candid and I think gave us some great insights into not just how you get your products into store, but what do you do then? How do you make sure you stay there? How do you maximize that relationship?

There's some really good stuff in this episode I'm so excited to share with you and I would love now to introduce you to Sara. Hi, Sara. Thank you so much for being here.

My pleasure, Vicki.

So can you please start by giving an introduction to yourself, your business and what you do?

Yeah. So I'm Sara Allbright. I am 1/4 of retail 100 consulting. So my background is all based being a retail buyer.

So I was a buyer for the best part of 20 years in department store retailing. So I did lots of different categories across that time, lots of different product areas, but mainly based within the home and gift sectors.

And now with three other colleagues who were also doing similar roles within buying and merchandising, we left a big retailer and decided we could do something ourselves, use our knowledge. So when we founded the business nearly three years ago, we had exactly 100 years of retail experience between the four of us, hence retail 100.

So now, now run that business, really kind of using everything we've learned over the years and actually still learning, kind of probably learned more in the past three years than we did in the past 10, maybe, but working with brands, suppliers, some of the trade show and trade organizations really using and sharing our knowledge. To help brands and businesses grow in a collaborative and sustainable way.

Amazing. Thank you so much for that introduction.

And as we said before we started recording, there are so many places we could take this because between you and your colleagues, you've so much experience.

But I would like to start thinking directly about, you know, you mentioned all your time at John Lewis and I would love to know that because I mean anyone could listen to this podcast, but ideally we're sort of aiming at smaller brands, perhaps brands sort of in the earlier days.

And I would love to know, do you have any insights or anything you learned from your time at John Lewis that might help an independent brand who is looking to get stocked in, whether it was John Lewis or any big department store? Big retailer, yeah.

I think probably the main thing that I'd say when any small or emerging brand is looking at kind of starting to deal with a multiple retailer is really about the preparation and really about being ready for it.

So it's kind of quite often an aspiration for brands and something they really wanted do see their product on shelf in, you know, one of the big stores. But unless you're ready for it, it can be a very scary process. And by ready I kind of that, that kind of comes on several fronts.

So there's a being ready and just purely the sense of your products ready in terms of having the right packaging and things like sometimes it's even just down to things like barcodes, et cetera etc, like the non exciting but really essential stuff making sure all your costings work.

So kind of if you don't understand the sort of margins or commercial terms big retailers will be asking for, you're going to have to have plenty of room between your cost price and your selling price to accommodate what they're going to require of you.

And also kind of a real piece, you know, in terms of doing all this homework really understanding where your product, where your brand sits within the market.

So we often have conversations where people have an aspiration to be somewhere and we're like that's great, but actually go and look at the rest of the product in their ranges. Does your price point sit in the right place? Is your product of the right standard?

Actually your product might be suitable somewhere else and you might not think that may that place might not be as aspirational, but there's still value in potentially what you could do with that retailer. But kind of to get someone in terms of a buyer to reply, you need to be ready to go.

You need to be approaching someone that you believe your product is right for and they have a potentially a gap for.

So really kind of doing the homework, doing the background piece and being ready because, you know, many people will say as well, it's quite a challenge to get the attention of a buyer, a bigger retailer quite often. So if you do get their attention, you need to be ready to go, go, go, because second chances sometimes don't come around.

That's really helpful, thank you.

And to build on from that, I'm really interested to know, like, especially given your experience, is there a place for small brands at these big retailers? Are the big retailers receptive to stocking small? I know you can only speak to the experience. I'd be really interested.

Yeah. Oh, excuse me, sorry. Right in the middle.

No problem at all.

So I think it really varies and I think retail has changed a lot in the last couple of years, last five years, in terms of how receptive they are to smaller brands. So personally, kind of my background in buying in the last kind of 10 years that I did in retail were very much within the gift sector.

And my belief was, you know, for people buying gifts, they want to see new things. You know, you can't buy people the same thing year in, year out for Christmas or their birthday.

So the role of kind of small brands coming into the market, offering customers something new, offering a different viewpoint on a category was really important. But I'm also quite conscious, sat here now, that back then I worked with a much bigger team.

I had kind of not as large a remit as some of the buyers do now. So we had the time and the energy to kind of nurture and work with small brands.

You know, I referenced earlier about barcode, you know, spending the time to kind of help someone kind of say, look, you know, we need you to do this and that to be ready. We would spend the time on and sadly, you know, a lot of the teams now our time poor to be able to do that.

So I think the desire is there, but I think sometimes around time and kind of resource to support small brands has kind of been lost.

But also through some of the kind of cost saving and changes that retailers have made around rebalancing their teams, they're also sometimes more restrictive on the supplier numbers that the buying teams are allowed or the SKU numbers or even just any flexibility on terms to make it more workable for small brands. So it can be a tough, tough sell. I think that probably has got more challenging in the last few years.

But my personal view for a customer, consumer, if you're looking outwards, there is a massive role for small brands to change the landscape. Otherwise retail is just going to look homogenized.

You'll go into one shop the next and it will just always be the same suite of brands because they're the ones at a size that retailers feel they can deal with.

That makes sense. And but I think you're right that there definitely is demand from consumers for it.

I mean, I know personally there's brands I've discovered because they've been in John Lewis or somewhere else and I've seen them there and then you know how it is, you see someone and then suddenly they're everywhere once you've, once you're aware of them. So actually I think department stores can be a really nice way for customers to find new brands, as you've said.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think I always found, you know, that I quite often launched a newer, smaller brand.

But over time, especially as I stayed in a similar role for a long period of time, we grew with those brands.

So you know, there was a collaborative working of if we were supporting and helping them, they would keep the brand relatively exclusive or sheltered as we quite often call it to us.

And maybe just independent retailers and that kind of working together to build a brand has real benefits for the retailer too because they're seeing that growth in sales as well. So it's definitely something I'm a massive advocate of and even during my time started to work with other organizations supporting small brands.

So we introduced pop ups that were facilitated through kind of businesses like gbx, now known as Indie, worked with the guys that created Makers to kind of bring in that sort of more craft element which again can be quite challenging for a large retailer when you're kind of very much an automated business or a business with big DCs, someone who makes things bespoke that, you know, everything is slightly different, never fits within some of these kind of guardrails of what big retailers allow.

So I was very much kind of, you know, wanting to champion different ways of bringing in different experience that made sure, you know, customers were still seeing that small brand kind of flavor.

Yeah, thank you. And am I right in thinking John Lewis still do pop ups now? I'm sure in some of the biggest stores at least they're still doing.

Yeah, yeah, they do, they do. And kind of that models actually expanded to other retailers.

So I know the guys at Indie, you know, still work with John Lewis but do them with the likes of dobbies and boots and kind of, I think for Me, that's quite gratifying to see that other retailers have understood the value.

But I think, you know, retailers are also using the fact that things have changed, that they don't necessarily want to fill their shop floors with stock completely anymore. They want to add more experience, more engagement, so they're actually freeing up space to try different things.

And I think quite often people who run their own small businesses are such a great sales advocate of that as well. So they usually do quite well because people intrinsically buy from people.

So when someone stood there telling them that, you know, this is literally stuff they made or they created, you know, consumers really react well to that. And it also allows the retailer to kind of change things quicker.

Most retailers live within a spring, summer and autumn, winter kind of cycle of products. So for the customer, you're only really seeing on some categories newness every six months.

So if there's pop ups happening week in, week out, there's always something new for people to look at. And again, I think, you know, people find that more engaging.

Definitely. And so would you say that these pop ups are a good way of getting into a bigger store? Perhaps.

Is that quite a good entry point if you're a small brand?

I think they've definitely got value for small brands around kind of trialing, kind of how well your product works. I mean there's nothing better than getting that direct customer feedback.

I used to like it kind of when back in our retailer days we used to do something called Helping Hands where we at Christmas time we went and worked on the shop floor for two or three days when it was really busy to help out.

And actually that listening to what people are saying and doing when they pick up your products are invaluable because it's a really honest viewpoint. They don't necessarily think about who's listening and you know, kind of, they don't filter it or make it polite.

So you get some really interesting kind of feedback.

I think the main thing for small brands when doing the pop ups, or any brand when doing the pop up for that matter, quite often we found they come away and be like, oh, we had an amazing week. Surely the buyer's got to take it into the main store and stock it.

And I would always be like, there's a real difference between a pop up and a product sitting on shelf.

So actually the pop ups as I said, are great because you have the salesperson there, the person that knows the product inside out, that can tell you all the bells and whistles. But actually when that product is left alone on a shelf, will it sell as well?

And again, this is where you have to be quite, quite honest, quite brutal, kind of with yourself as a brand owner and kind of look at what else is there. You know, even just put your product on the shelf, you know, for 15 minutes and stand back and look at it. Does it have stand out?

You know, will people understand it when you're not there explaining it? Will the packaging sell the story enough? Does it have a point of difference?

Now all these things you've really got to look at and if you can kind of tick all those boxes, believe that you've got a product that really sell, having a successful pop up and the numbers behind that are definitely a great part of your arsenal in terms of approaching a buyer and saying this is why I believe you should range the product. But I'd always caution against kind of just going with the I had an amazing week pop up. You've got to range me.

There's, there's more to it than that but it's an amazingly valuable experience. And some brands have found kind of actually they don't then want to be in the store full time.

They're quite happy going and doing the pop ups and controlling that themselves and selling directly to customers after their pop up periods. I think most people find that they're uptick on their own selling channels after doing a pop up is really strong.

So it's kind you've got to make it work for you. But they're definitely something that I know so many brands have found real value in.

Well, thank you and thank you for your honesty around that as well because I can totally see that someone could do a pop up, have a great week or weekend or however long it is and think, right, that's it, I'm, they're going to stock me nationwide now off the back of that so I can totally see. So thank you for being really honest about that.

Something else that that made me think about is the pop up model sounds great and I think there's probably lots of advantages of doing that. What's the reality like of being stocked in a large retailer?

What I mean is, because obviously lots of people aspire to it but I'm assuming it's one of those things that even if you get stocked, it's probably not straightforward in terms of making sure they have inventory, payment terms, all that kind of thing. What does that actually look like?

Yeah, absolutely.

I kind of think generally, I think most people would probably think if they were approaching a large retailer, the large Retailer definitely wants their cake and eat it with a cherry on top because there are lots of demands and more. So now, you know, we say to brands and suppliers, you, you've got to be a master, you know, master of your own destiny if you get a listing.

Because actually if you sit back and just leave the products there and wait for them to sell and wait for the buying teams to keep an eye on them, you know, again, the resource of the experience is limited. They might not, you know, realize kind of if things have go out of stock on websites or if, you know, things aren't quite right in copy online.

So kind of really owning your relationship with the retailer is key. But yeah, going back to kind of what you were saying, there will be a level of commercial agreement with most retailers.

So you know, when you go in for any meeting. So if you've got to that stage, amazing, well done. Because, you know, we're.

If I had a pound for every time someone came to us and said, how do I get a buyer to respond? Or how, you know, how do I get a meeting with a buyer? It's not easy. So firstly, kind of kudos to getting to that stage.

You would then need to start looking at things like most retailers will have a commercial agreement and contracts and we're all probably guilty of when you get the. Except the T's and C's box of kind of skimming through it and ticking and moving on.

But really making sure you've gone through the detail on those because quite often there are kind of clauses and terms around things that sit outside of your cost price agreement. So you might be expected to contribute to marketing funds or marketing spend.

There might be some kind of turnover rebate, kind of, as you've mentioned, there will no doubt be a payment terms and settlement discount scenario. You need to know all of that before you agree a cost price because you need to be able to afford to work with a retailer.

And actually for some people, and I've had this with some brands and this is absolutely the right thing to do, they've looked at it all and they can't make the costings work.

And again, that's really important, you know, as a brand that even if it's the retailer you're desperate to be in, you can't run a business unless it's profitable.

So you've got to be, you know, kind of willing to say, actually at the moment, this doesn't work for me, you know, can I come back to you in six months, a year's time when the Business has grown elsewhere or you've been able to change things to accommodate that. So making sure you can make it work for your brand and not being blinded by the big retailer lights is important.

And then there'll just be things like the logistics of dealing with big retailers.

So we'd always kind of advocated people going to see, you know, it doesn't sound very exciting, see the warehousing setup, because they'd always get very perplexed by the fact they had to book a slot for delivery and that, you know, that you couldn't, you know, rock up in your car with the stuff in the back of the car.

You know, you have to use certain couriers or, you know, certain types of lorries and all these things kind of sometimes sound onerous and kind of unwieldy.

But actually, when you go and see the setup of some of these warehouses, how busy they are, how automated they are, you understand better how why they have to be run like that. Because actually, if they were allowing people to turn up at any time, you know, the efficiencies would just go out the window.

So kind of, you know, all that kind of logistics piece. And then like you say, kind of, how much stock do you hold at one time? How long are your lead times?

They're kind of having really important conversations with the merchandising element of buying a merchandising team. So are they going to give you forecasts for stock for the season? How often do they want to order?

There are very few retailers, sadly, that will commit to huge amount of stocks and take that all at once. They'll most likely just want to give you a forecast number and then want to do little and often deliveries.

So again, making sure that can work for you. So making sure you're clear.

You know, if they give you an order, you're going to need at least two weeks to produce it or get it ready to ship, you know, getting all of those things clear.

Otherwise, you know, you probably will be getting weekly orders and it could soon spiral out of control because again, quite often, you know, there's charges around, late delivery with bigger retailers, etc. So without completely scaring people off, again, this is just about kind of being really kind of inquisitive, asking questions if you're not sure.

And the main thing kind of communicating. So, you know, if you get to that stage and you've got an order you can't fulfill, don't go away for two weeks and try and fulfill it.

As soon as you get that order, say, okay, we Appreciate the order, guys, but, you know, we might need longer to deliver it. We haven't got the stock at the moment.

Be really upfront about things because then they're less likely to get frustrated with you at a later point when you can't deliver it. So best to kind of manage expectations, I suppose.

That's really helpful. Thank you.

I think this is so valuable because I've had episodes before about sort of retail in general, but it's really interesting to hear it from your side as a buyer and to get a bit of insight into what it would be like if you're lucky enough to get stock somewhere. Because I think often we focus on let's try and get into stores, but actually it's great to find out more about what the reality of that is.

And with that in mind, Sarah. So let's say we're really lucky. We get stocked in John Lewis or some other big department store. What then? So what can we then do?

That increase increases our chance of keeping that relationship going, keeping the retailer happy, keeping ourselves happy as well. What can we be doing ongoing?

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think this is kind of, as I mentioned previously, where you've got to be really kind of master of what happens next, because it would be very easy to think the order's gone into the warehouse, you sent in your invoice, kind of job done. And in some ways, you know, in fairness, maybe for a brand, it should be job done and the onus isn't on you anymore.

But the reality, again, is the time and the kind of amount of effort a buyer or a buying team can put into managing every single product is limited. So for me, as soon as you launch with a big retailer, it's about auditing as much as you can. So has every product launched on the website?

Are all those images correct? Is all that copy correct? Are all those product dimensions correct?

You know that as a first point of call, a will kind of mean your products in the best place to sell.

So again, kind of making sure they have your best assets for the website, from photography to videos to copy, it's got to be as good as you can give to them, because quite often they will use what you have rather than shooting it or writing it themselves and flagging those issues straight away.

So especially when there's errors around things like dimensions, you know, people start buying things, but then it all turns up and it's not what they expected because of an error, then the returns start going up. You know, what the buying team won't see is why Those returns have happened. They'll just see returns and be like, this is not good product.

Well, actually, it's not really the product's fault, so really kind of having your eyes all over it.

And likewise, if your product gets off to amazing start and, you know, a website starts to show lots of out of stocks, not being afraid of going, you know, I've noticed seven of the lines are out of stock. I've got, you know, stock available. Do you want to raise an order?

So that kind of online side is easier because you can access that from wherever you are. The kind of actually what the product looks like in store can be a lot trickier.

But, you know, I know people who list, enlist family and friends and, you know, wherever they are in the country, kind of you just say, can you go in and have a look, take me a photo, see if it's out on the shelf yet, what does it look like? Because again, you know, that presentation to the customer is. Some retailers, I use more prescriptive display guidelines for the stores and others.

But actually, you know, it's very much kind of what you can see, what you can get at and then if there are problems, kind of how you resolve those.

So sometimes it can be as easy as being in that shop and saying to someone who works in that shop, you know, this is my brand, or, you know, I know the person that owns that brand, do you mind if I tidy it up or rearrange it or, you know, is there somewhere better it could go? Again, it's like it's. It's not being afraid to ask because sometimes someone's, someone's put it out and they might not really understand it.

So the chance to chat to someone who knows the brand and can tell them a bit more about it, they'll find really engaging. But as I say, it kind of feels like, you know, slightly unfair that, you know, as a brand or supplier, you've got to go and do all this legwork.

But in all honesty, honesty kind of brands live or die in a retailer in those first few weeks, couple of months, and if you kind of let it just, you know, happen and you might be on a bottom shelf somewhere and your products might be wrong online, that damage that's done in that early stage can ruin it for the long term.

So as much as it might feel like a lot of work, I definitely advocate in those first few weeks after launch, really, really doing what you can to make sure you've got your kind of best foot forward.

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you. And I actually totally get it as well that.

So the buying team obviously buying in the products, but it's somebody else and a different somebody else in every store, presumably, who's actually putting it onto the shelves, putting it out for display. So I can definitely see, yeah.

Where that could, you know, where brands may feel, oh, actually our product isn't being presented in the best way or in the right place. And with that in mind, how much say, do you get as a brand on how your. How and where your product is displayed? Do you get any input into that at all?

Yeah, again, that's something that can vary by kind of retail or even by store within retailer. But a lot of retailers are more open to brand.

Well, we'd call it things like branded extraordinary expression or branded fixturing now than ever more.

So if that's something that you can facilitate, definitely make sure you're talking to the buyers around that in terms of getting the most valuable space, be that physical in a store or kind of top of page online. Quite often that can come with a price tag or a rate card in terms of, you know, kind of getting that prime position.

But again, it might be something as a brand, you know, you see it valuable to invest in so understanding the implications of kind of those things. But realistically, I think the main thing for me is kind of ensuring that however you go into stories is as best as possible.

And even if it's down to just, you know, sometimes it's simple little brand blocks or, you know, A4 posters telling people a bit more about the brand. It can be quite simple things that you can add. It doesn't have to be, you know, paying for a whole piece of fixturing.

But again, it kind of comes back to the point around making sure the retailer has access to the best of your brand. So the best imagery, the best information, because the best they can make it will only come from what you give them.

That's so helpful, thank you. And I hadn't actually thought about the fact that you could pay for your position in store.

I'm sure not in every store, but in some circumstances because I mean, there must be prime real estate if we're going to use that word in store, because I can't imagine being on the bottom shelf, for example, is as. Is as good a place to be as eye level, for example.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And like I say, it varies with the retailer and the type of fixturing they have been.

You know, in some, some departments we'd kind of have things where we call like gondola ends. So, you know, the long sort of shelf fixtures, the ends are the ones that stick out in the walkways. They are the things that people see first.

So there are often opportunities for brands to kind of take over that end and kind of use their branding on it and create a layout or a display of even, you know, sometimes just about promoting a new product.

It doesn't necessarily have to be the whole brand, but, yeah, retailers, I think, are definitely using that more and more to kind of help tell stories as well as there are less kind of sales or just people working on shop floors to engage with customers. Presenting product in a way that someone can engage with it without someone there telling them something is becoming more important.

Yeah, thank you. That's all so useful. I'd love to talk a little bit if that's the case. Obviously, we're focusing a lot on small, small brands and emerging brands.

But I would love to know, because obviously you have so much experience in this. What, in your experience, what does it take for a small emerging brand to become a market leader?

So to become one of these bigger brands that has prominence on the shelves? Because it does happen, and I'm sure you've got examples of brands that start. Started small and grew as well.

So I would love to hear your thoughts on that.

Yeah, it's definitely possible and it definitely happens.

So probably the example I always use was I bought the home fragrance category for many years, and if there's an example of an extremely crowded market, home fragrance, is it because candles, per se, are relatively easy to make, you can still get them produced in the UK, which is kind of unusual in a lot of product categories. Now. They're the sort of thing that people kind of get into from the kitchen table.

So, you know, if I literally had a pound for every home fragrance brand I've ever seen, I'd be very rich for so many. But within that category, there are people that, if you looked at their brand five, 10 years ago, were nowhere near the size they are now.

And for me, a lot of that is around kind of when a new brand, a small brand comes into a market like that is about having a clear kind of point of view. So why does the brand exist? And that can be kind of for a raft of different reasons.

And there's certain trends in the market that have kind of grown brands in the past year, past few years.

So if it's a brand that has a viewpoint around sustainability or a viewpoint around wellbeing, or, you know, a viewpoint around just pure quality, there's A lot of heritage brands. So kind of what as a brand is your purpose and your standpoint and be really kind of clear about that.

And then also looking at the market as a whole, does your product offer good quality for value? Is there a place for a. Another candle in a glass vessel? Because intrinsically you can't change the product that much.

So again, it's kind of looking at all of these things, looking at kind of how your packaging looks versus other people. But yeah, I've worked with kind of, you know, several brands over the past, you know, decade.

But even in more recent years I can call out examples from people like probably one of the newer ones is home fragrance brand called Aery. They've probably only been around in the sort of past five years, but have got really good coverage across UK retailers.

And I would say that was because they came into the market with a standpoint on them, sustainability and kind of using kind of candles around, kind of mood and that type of thing. But also really strong giftable packaging, really well designed, they just stood out.

But prior to that, worked with brands like Scandinavisk would be another one.

So, you know, a brand with its roots and heritage kind of coming out of a Scandinavian lifestyle, much cleaner look, much more contemporary than what was happening a lot in the UK at the time, but was still accessible and kind of was all based around kind of different elements of Scandinavian landscapes and that type of thing. So again, resonated with customers. And even going back to the very early days of a brand like Neom, people looked at neon.

Now they'd think, you know, huge brand, been around for a long time. It's not that long ago that Neom was five candles.

And that was, you know, you know, Nicola had started her brand based on kind of using aromatherapy and essential oils for well being. It's not what it is now. It starts, you know, everything. It's hard to see sometimes, but everything starts in these smaller places.

But as long as they're founded on really good principles and all these brands kind of tend to stick to this purpose and you know what their point of view is over time. So even as they change and evolve, the underlying way of where they started is always very similar to where they end up.

Thank you. And I think it's a really good reminder that these brands that we see as being big market leaders were once more brands.

In fact, when you said Neom, it made me smile. I've got a neon hand cream here. And I was remembering, I, I was gifted a neon sleep mask. Remember, they did the masks.

Yeah.

And I want to say this was 10, 11 years ago and they were really, and they were a relatively small brand. I'd never heard of them.

And I got given this thing and, and I remember the person giving it to me saying I've just discovered this brand and that, you know, it was a small business. So yeah, it must have been a small business back then. And I remember I'd never ever heard of them until I had this product.

And now of course they're everywhere, aren't they?

Yeah, absolutely.

But I think that's really good to remember that, you know. So right now we might think we have a small brand but actually who knows in 10 years time.

Yeah, and I think as well kind of that fact of it might be a slower process and you like, you know, it won't necessarily, you won't necessarily go from being a small brand to a massive one overnight.

Some people do, you know, in the days of, you know, things going viral and all these crazy things, things can explode a lot quicker than they did historically. But actually I think brands that gain longevity are those that grow well over a period of time.

You know, it's not about rushing it, it's about doing it well. And you know, a brand like Neom is a case example of that. Each time they launched a new category or a new product, it was done well.

It was, you know, time was taken to make sure it was right. Because it's always really hard to backtrack things out of the market once you've done something.

If you've done it once and you've done it badly, you either have to wait quite a while for A the consumer and B, also the buyers to forget about how badly it went before you can try doing it again. And also just kind of, you know, reputationally for the brand it is damaging.

So kind of those, I think that kind of slow but steady growth is something that will give you much more of a long term business than something that explodes overnight and potentially then is almost becomes a bit of a fad that's maybe only around for a year or so.

Oh definitely, because I think we can all think of things that have become insanely popular or brands that suddenly everyone's wearing or using and then now we're struggling to think of the names of them because they've been and gone. That makes total sense.

And I think I'll also say as a reminder to everyone as well that it's fine if you don't want to be a market leader and you don't Want to have a. That's okay as well because.

Absolutely.

I think sometimes there can be a little bit of, I don't know the right words but to explain this but you know, a little bit of thinking, oh, I should be doing this, I should be looking to grow my brand, I should be looking to be a market leader. But actually you don't have to do that.

No. And that's why I say kind of sometimes, you know, again, you don't have to be in bigger retailers.

There are many great brands that have existed listed purely from selling direct to consumer themselves or through limited distribution in really good independent stores or kind of through a model that, you know, they do a lot of fairs and exhibitions. There are so many different ways of doing it. Each is going to be right for, you know, one another.

But yeah, being with big retailers doesn't necessarily bring everything everyone always wanted. I think, you know, you've got to know what you're walking into and make sure it's right for your brand.

Absolutely. And as you've said, there's so many options out there now as well. It's not just a case of.

Because I'm thinking back in the days before the Internet it was just bricks and mortar over your own shop or someone else. But now we've got online, online on various marketplaces, in stores, in pop ups. There's so many places that we can choose to sell our products now.

And so I think that's, I think that's really nice that you can choose what works for your brand rather than thinking you have to do everything and be everywhere.

Yeah, I think definitely there's a balance of power has changed between retailers and brands.

You even see it with some of the really big established brands and now deciding, you know, to pull out of retailers themselves and set up their own retail so they'll have their own shops. They want that closeness to their consumer for themselves now.

You know, they don't want to put intermediaries in the middle who might not display the products, how they want them to be sold or talk about their brands in the waste.

There's a lot more kind of brands going to retail themselves and owning that kind of, you know, even kind of on the high street and kind of shopping centers, seeing more shops and spaces that are about a brand as opposed a retail chain.

Yeah, that makes sense. And that also makes me think, do you think that these bigger retailers need brands as much as brands need the retailers? If you see what I mean?

Yeah, I think it's a, like I say, it's kind of the balance of power has changed over time. And I think it's, it's, for me, it's how well brands and retailers work together.

I don't think, you know, without good relationships, without, you know, always talk about, you know, good business plans together, it never works. If either party's trying to kind of inflict something onto each other, you know, it's got to work for both parties.

I think what retailers need now more than ever is kind of working with brands collaboratively but also standing the difference in consumer behaviors now and what people are looking for.

So, you know, there's definitely, I'm 100% not a believer that, you know, when people talk about the high street is dead, it really isn't and doesn't need to be, but it needs to make sure it's keeping up with what people want and also appreciating.

I think a lot of people don't realize how much online shopping happens because people see things in shops, the visibility of shops and kind of what that then drives, drives. You can't really measure that, you know, because it's not like someone says, oh, I saw this in a shop and that's why I bought it online.

But again, those intrinsic loops of, you know, behavior don't happen without physical environments and physical stores. But they are going to need to behave differently.

Hence, you know, pop ups becoming more prevalent because retailers are realizing there's different ways of, of using the space than they might have done historically.

That makes sense because I think there's also a shift in that as consumers we've got so much choice about where we spend our money and how we spend our money. So whether we shop in store, whether we shop online, often you can buy the same products in different places.

So I could choose to shop on your website or I could choose to go into John Lewis and buy the product. So I guess that makes it different for retail as well.

It feels to me that maybe there's a little bit less power than they'll would have been 10 years ago perhaps when for a small brand that was kind of one of the main ways of getting in front of lots of customers.

Absolutely. Yeah.

I think, you know, there was a time as well where brands would say to me as well, kind of being on a shop floor and a big retailer in the UK was like a window to the world because people would, you know, from other retailers in other countries would come to London and walk the stores on Oxford street and things they see there, they go back and say, oh, these are the Brands we need now.

But you know, Google and all the other search engines that are out there, you know, it's easier to see that without having to get on a plane so that, you know, the need to be collaborative and there be a benefit for the brand to be in a retailer as there be a benefit for the retailer having a brand. It's got to work, got to work both ways I think now.

Yeah, I didn't actually think about, think about that. But yeah, you're right that it's much, I think it's much easier for I assume for buyers to find, have access to products now as well.

And then of course there's things like trade shows as well.

Yeah, I think it's an interesting one actually for trade shows now you can see things in so many different ways.

You know, I'm was very much kind of trained and brought up on the sense of as a buyer, you get to a trade show and you walk up and down every single aisle because you've got to absorb everything that's there and you never know where a new thing might be tucked away. It might have been categorized wrongly or someone might have got a bit of a space at last minute.

But now there, you know, there are so many other ways and I think for brands that's really important about thinking about all the ways that your brand touches, you know, the world, that the online marketplace, you've got to be best foot forward. So what do all your social media channels look like? You don't necessarily have to be active all over them.

But if a buyer kind of hears about your brand and looks at your Instagram, if all of those images are awful, that's going to put them off. There are so many ways of someone looking at a brand now.

You've got to be really kind of on it in terms of making sure everywhere they see it will be doing the best job for you because it's kind of, you know, it's one of those things now people are looking for the next thing via kind of, as I say, search engines and social media and the like.

So again, you know, you might have the best trade show stand in the world, but if they get back to their desk the next day and look on your website and it looks awful, they might be like, oh, must have been having a bit of a tired moment when I saw that brand at the show, you know, and dismiss it. So you've got to be so conscious of how your brand's presented the world.

I mean it's the same thing as people now you Know, they kind of say you can't. Your online footprint, you know, people are looking at it.

When you apply for a job, you've got to be so mindful of how you present yourself in all aspects.

Thank you. And that's. Do you know what? That's another really great piece of advice.

I think as well, for anyone looking to get, you know, stocks in a retailer is to have also have that all in place. Make sure your socials and your website and everything are of all looking good.

Because I think there's so much now to consider, as you say, how you appear and where you appear. I think that's a really great reminder just to make sure that everything is aligned and as best as it can be.

Yeah, exactly.

Because it's easy to kind of forget that you set up a Facebook page or something at the start of the journey and no one's gone back to it and that, you know, that's. That's understandable.

Small businesses are busy and kind of, you know, don't have enough time, but at least if they're not active, make them as inactively beautiful as you progress possibly can.

You just don't want anything to kind of put someone off engaging with your brand because as I say, kind of that moment for so many brands, for so many suppliers now, that moment of getting a buyer interested is so hard to achieve, so rare, that you really need to make sure you don't lose it just because of some of these smaller details.

Well, that's brilliant advice. Thank you. And thank you for everything that you shared. Sarah, before we go, I've got one more question, if that's all right.

Yeah.

And it's one I ask everybody.

Well, I ask it slightly differently to everybody, but what I'd like to know is what would your number one piece of advice be for a small brand owner at the moment?

Oh, gosh. My number one piece of advice, I think it would be around being clear on your purpose as a brand and staying true to that.

If you're clear on that, it will kind of guide everything you do. And staying true to it is what will guide you through everything.

And if you start to deviate because someone asked you to do something different, that's, you know, where things tend to go a bit awry.

So making sure the decisions you make are right for your brand and what your brand is should always put you in the best place, even if at times those decisions feel scary or kind of quite major.

I think that's brilliant advice. Thank you. And I think what that also does is prevent you from trying to do everything. Because that can be.

As we said, there's so much you could be doing now. And that can be. I think that's something I see a lot is people wanting to sell their products everywhere or do every. Yeah, do everything.

And actually, I think you're right if you sort of know, okay, this is our path. That makes it a lot easier not to get drawn down every path available.

Exactly. Exactly.

Well, thank you so much, Sarah. I've really enjoyed this. Can you please. I'm going to put a link in the show notes, but can you please let us know now everywhere people can find you?

Yeah, sure.

So my main Presence is on LinkedIn, so I have my own personal LinkedIn profile under my name, Sara Allbright, but also under the business Retail 100 Consulting. We also have our website which is www.retail100consulting.co.uk so best ways to find us. Probably not practicing what I preach.

Our Instagram profile is not particularly exciting. But you will, you will find us there in a minimal way. But yeah, LinkedIn and our website are best routes.

Thank you so much, Sarah. And I'll make sure these are all linked up in the show notes.

Fabulous. Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening. Right to the end of this episode.

Do remember that you can get the full back catalogue and lots of free resources on my website, vickiweinberg.com Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful. Thank you again and see you next week.