The non visual elements that make up a strong brand – with Cara Bendon

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Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea to Life podcast. This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products, or if you'd like to create your own product to sell. I'm Vicki Weinberg, product creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly, practical advice as well as inspirational stories from small businesses. Let's get started.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:24

Today on the podcast, I'm really excited to speak to Cara Bendon. Cara is a branding consultant. She's been on the podcast before. Cara joined me in episode 80, which ironically is before this podcast was rebranded, and we spoke on the episode about a lot of the visual elements that make up your branding. So if you haven't listened to that episode already, so that's episode 80, I think it'd be great if you could pause now and go back and listen to that because today very much builds on what we spoke about in that episode. So that episode was about the visual things, so the parts of your brand that people see. And today we're talking a lot about the things that live beneath the surface. Um, and the things that aren't so visible so that you, like brand values, how you tell the story of your brand, what the customer experience is like, all those kind of things. So it's a great conversation and we share loads of examples. Hopefully this will be one that really gets you thinking about what you could do differently with your brand. And I would love now to introduce you to Clara. So, hi Cara. Thank you for joining me again.

Cara Bendon: 00:01:25

Hi. Hi. I'm so pleased to be back. Thanks for inviting me.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:29

So hopefully everyone has already listened to your previous episode, but just in case or, and it was a while ago now, can you just remind us of who you are and what you do please?

Cara Bendon: 00:01:38

Yes, absolutely. So my name's Cara and I run a small agency, uh, called the Cara Bendon Brand Consultancy, where I offer, uh, branding for, uh, product businesses, specifically those who are quite ambitious and, uh, they have a vision for their brand. They've created something quite innovative and they want to see it out there in the world.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:59

Brilliant. Thank you. So today is definitely going to be a progression from what we spoke about last time, but the one thing I would like you to recap on, if you don't mind, Cara, is why a strong brand is so important.

Cara Bendon: 00:02:11

Absolutely. Well, um, today's topic also covers elements that contribute to a strong brand, but the other episode is a really good starting point because the two just can't exist in without harmony between them. So the visual elements of a brand tells the story of everything underneath and the brand foundation, and that's what we're going to be talking about a bit today. But essentially your brand is your first impression. It's how people perceive you in the world, so it's really important.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:02:43

It's really interesting you said that there's lots more than the vi the visible elements, so that's really cool. Well, let's talk about that a bit later because I'd like to dive into that. Um, the first thing I'd like to ask you about Cara is I know that you talk about something called the Five Ws.

Cara Bendon: 00:02:57

Mm-hmm.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:02:57

Do you want to tell us what they are and how they inform and make up your brand?

Cara Bendon: 00:03:02

Absolutely. So one of my principles in my business is about simplifying branding and not using too much jargon and making it complicated because honestly, I don't believe it is at the heart of branding. It's about creating a connection with a human. And in the case of small businesses, it's, you know, it's a very human, human connection. Um, so the, the five Ws, you know, are often used in other, um, situations. And so I thought it was a helpful framework to, for people to think about their brand, uh, foundation. So that would just be who, what, why, where, and when. So in the case of your brand, it's, it's making clear that people can understand who are you? So your story, the founder, uh, what do you sell? It sounds obvious, but it needs to be immediately apparent and clear to people across your communications, your website, your brand. Um, why should I buy from you? And that is one that's really loaded with meaning that we'll, we'll extrapolate on a little bit when we talk about brand values, but that's really about, you know, making your brand compelling to consumers for specific reasons. Um, uh, where can I get it? Um, that's obviously more like a call to action and then when could be, you know, when is this relevant for me? So I find that quite interesting when you think about when is your product relevant to someone in their life. That's interesting in terms of, it forms your, your tone of voice, your language that you use, the content you put out, but also the point at which you market to people. Um, you know, for example, if you had a nutritional supplement that was really good for women in pregnancy, you would need to think about exactly when it's right to, you know, to, um, meet your audience with that message, how to meet your audience at the point that they're at. Is it that you start, you know, much earlier or, you know, um, for example, if you were just to put up adverts in nurseries, it could be a little bit late for that particular baby, you know? So it's thinking about that. Um, and when can I get it? Uh, so the other side of when could just be, you know, for online consumers, especially the, when can I get it, can actually become quite an important part of your brand. I mean, even if, if we look at Amazon, that was one of the USPS that they had, you know, 15, 20 years ago when e-commerce was much newer. It was that you could get these books and you could get them within a two, three days, um, sometimes 24 hours. And, and with Prime, you know, that's their promise. So that can in, in itself become a, a core part of your brand.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:40

Thank you so much for explaining all of that. I think these are really good questions to maybe ask yourself if you're thinking about your brand and all that goes into it. You mentioned earlier, Cara, that there's a lot more about the brand than what we see. Can you talk a little bit more about that and and what you mean? Because in the last episode we spoke a lot about the visual things. We spoke about colours and logos and all of that. So what are the areas that run underneath the surface that we as consumers may not see, um, but as brands we need to be thinking about.

Cara Bendon: 00:06:12

Absolutely. So branding is actually only the visible component of everything your, your brand is. Um, so in terms of the branding, we often think, sometimes we confuse it with being brand and we say, oh, I've got a logo, I've got some colours, so I've got my brand done. But actually, if we haven't got those, uh, in understanding of our U S P, the story, the behind the business, the values. Then actually that branding is going to be relatively generic and not as powerful. So by combining the two together, you have a much more strong, you have a strong brand foundation. Um, so one of the things I like to say is that your logo is a little like your signature. So your signature's really important. It's something that's used on legal documents. You might use it on your credit card. It is to all intents and purposes, a legal representation of your approval, but it isn't you. It's just a small bit of handwriting that may be quite hard for people to read, depending on your handwriting. It's not all of you, and that's the same with your logo. It's really important. It's a recognizable thing that people will, you know, gain brand awareness and be able to identify from afar in many different situations. However, it's not all of your brand and if you lean too much on just having a logo, then you risk not really having that strong brand. So the other visual elements of branding are your website, your packaging. Maybe you have certain brands, textures or elements or shapes. You might have a bespoke brand pattern. Uh, you might have a tagline for which your brand is connected or famous for. Um, and you know, it might be then that might show up in things like your social media, your website, your packaging, your business cards, et cetera. Um, but all of that is your branding, and it needs to reflect the invisible elements. So if we were to think of this as an iceberg, all of that is what's visible, and it should go to represent everything under the water. Which is your brand values, your tone of voice, your positioning in the market. So by that it's like whether you are luxury, whether you are mid premium, whether you are sort of super affordable, whether you are fair trade, you know, where you position yourself in the market, um, how that relates to your product prices, your audience. It's like I said before, it's your founder's story and I'm particularly keen on that. Uh, you know, why did your business come into being in the first place? What problem was it that you were trying to solve? Because that's incredibly compelling part of the brand, um, piece. Um, And another thing that I would include in that iceberg is actually your customer service and the customer experience that they have with you, because that whole experience is going to be reflective of your brand in terms of reputation and word of mouth, but it's absolutely nothing to do with your colour choices or logo. So, um, as you can see, it's like the, the, the elements on the top should reflect everything underneath. So if you had a brand that you know, it was key to your brand to want to bring joy to people's lives. And you might have like brightly coloured, playful, uh, graphics that would, that would make sense for that value.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:09:48

That makes sense. Thank you so much. And you've, you've mentioned so many things there that I love to dig into a bit deeper. Um, And I think what you're saying, and tell me if I've misunderstood, is that if you know what your brand is, who your customers are, so as you say, whether your brand that brings joy or your brand that supports people through tough times or whatever it is, I guess, that then can inform the visual elements of your brand. Because let's say you are a, in the example you just gave, if you're a brand, then you, that wants to bring joy to people, you probably wouldn't have a very dark, somber visual appearance.

Cara Bendon: 00:10:23

Yeah. Absolutely. And I mean, on the flip side, if you wanted to be a brand that was all about luxury, then perhaps you would choose dark colours. And you might have sort of metallic elements or traditional Sierra font, uh, you know, something to create a sense of like if you were a, you know, yeah, a luxury brand, you might model it a little after some hotels where they're quite aspirational and they're a little bit moody and maybe a bit seductive. Um, and it's got to suit your brand and. Yeah, exactly. It relates to those values, positioning and brand personality.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:10:57

That makes a lot of sense. And as we're talking, I'm kind of reflecting everything you're saying and it's making me think about times where I've definitely seen brands or websites in particular. I think I've seen this on websites where the visuals don't feel like they match with the products or the, or the, you know what the person is selling or maybe how they're doing it and I can't think of an example. Even if I did, I wouldn't want to share because that would be really unkind.

Cara Bendon: 00:11:21

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:21

Do you know what I mean? I've definitely had that experience where I've gone onto a site and it's felt a little bit of a, a disconnect between maybe the, yeah, the, the products. It is. It is many products where I've seen it, where I've seen products and then I look at the overall branding on this website, for example. And I feel like, oh, this kind of jars a little bit. And I'm wondering if this is an example of where maybe the visual elements have come first. Um, handle.

Cara Bendon: 00:11:48

It could be.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:49

The rest of the business.

Cara Bendon: 00:11:50

It could be, or it could also be that trap that sometimes people fall into of thinking that professionalism can't allow for brand expression. That personality, that in order to look as, you know, that, that, that things have to look a certain way and obviously professionalism of your branding is, is one thing, but if looking a certain way is actually the opposite of that because then that just means everything looks the same. It's very generic and it doesn't say anything specific. Um, you know, I'm all about getting to the heart of a business and, and trying to communicate that. And actually it, it, um, it reminded me, you and I were both at, um, a trade show and we saw the Positive planner guys and their brand, I think really conveys their values so well. Um, you know, they always have these bright colours and it's a, it's a relatively serious subject matter, you know, mental health, but they're all about, you know, and, and they're not about toxic positivity, but they are about, um, being uplifting and bringing joy into your life. So all of their cut, their product range is really bright colours. And even when we saw them in person, they were both in, in, um, jumpsuits with yellow converse, weren't they? And that was just like a subtle nod to the bright yellow of their brand. They were perfectly on brand as well. They were really cheerful and you know, so it was an embodiment of those values that came through those colours in their brand.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:13:20

Yeah, I re you know, I remember that experience as well because, um, I, well I still, it was really memorable for me because partly how they were dressed, but also, like you said, they really embodied their brand and they guessed, I don't know, it felt, to me it felt really of what they were selling felt really authentic because of how they came across. Um, so I think that is a really good example. Because I do remember speaking with them and it kind of made total sense what they were selling and why, and it, and also when we will talk about this in, in a moment that they were talking to us, maybe you remember about the story of the brand as well. And um, I think that can really help connect, can't it? If you know the story of a founder and of a brand that can really help you as a customer sort of get it.

Cara Bendon: 00:14:03

Absolutely. I think that's one of the most powerful things. I think that understanding somebody's journey and, and then you know, why they create a product, it makes it so much more memorable and it makes it more, it makes it a more interesting option than others if you have alternative options for a given thing. So I met, um, a lady, um, I've forgotten her name right now, unfortunately, but, uh, the founder of a business called Zip Us In zip us in and, um, at an event, and what it was, is that she, when she was pregnant, she was pregnant through the winter and didn't want to buy a special maternity or extra large winter coat when she, you know, that's not in line with her values of having a more capsule wardrobe, buying things that you're going to wear for years, not just having throwaway items. Um, and so she devised this, um, insert that could just be, uh, clipped in and it extends the, the coats so that, um, around your stomach or afterwards if you ha uh, wearing the baby in a carrier. Um, and for me it's like, it's those stories. You see them a lot on, you know, dragons Den and shows like that, that really stick in your mind and make you remember that. And that's, you know, that's a, a business I, you know, have very much kept in my mind, uh, for that reason.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:15:22

Absolutely. That's the whole point of this podcast really, is that I love hearing founder's stories because everyone has a story, even if they think they don't. Um, and I think there's something just nice about kind of knowing who the founder is and having a, a face to that person. Um, you and I were talking recently about a brand, and we don't need to name the brand where we were saying it felt quite strange that we don't know much about them and.

Cara Bendon: 00:15:45

Mm-hmm.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:15:46

Why the product came into existence and who, who's actually behind it. And, um, it, and yeah, and that for me, I don't know, it's, um, the, it's a product that I love, but I feel like I can't get behind the brand because I don't know who they are.

Cara Bendon: 00:16:02

I know what you mean. I was, yes, that specific one, I was, I was looking everywhere for some personal story on the about page and the about page just had some, you know, very relevant information for the audience, but I just couldn't get a sense of the origin story, who had created this product because as you say, it's a really clever product. So I think that, yeah, the story is a key part of it.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:16:24

And what about brand values? I mean, um, how do they play in and how do how, yeah. So talk about how and why they're important, and also how we might share them as well.

Cara Bendon: 00:16:36

Well, absolutely. So I think brand values have always been an important piece, but actually the way things are going, it's gaining momentum and go becoming even more crucial. Um, I think I actually, I have some stats from a report, but it's from 2019 and that's pre pandemic. So I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually increased. But, um, at that time, 72% of consumers would, um, decide whether to buy from a brand based on their values. Um, and I think the pandemic had no smaller fact on our sense of um, disconnection from the world. That then increased our desire to feel that we had a human connection through, you know, the brands we buy from. It was a time where, All our interactions were turned on their head and well, were basically diminished. And the, our behaviours were turned on their head and we were, you know, e-commerce was the only kind of shopping. And we also saw a rise in, in makers and creators and entrepreneurs in that time, being resourceful and inventive with solutions. So we have, uh, one, uh, you know, at the same time, a, a, a great increase in entrepreneurialism and small businesses at the same time as a desire to have more human connection and maybe buy from businesses that have more of a personal story, more independent, more ethical, uh, more values led. Um, so the values, now it's, it's, it's something you can't really escape. The big boys are being held to account when they greenwash, when they put out statements, when they support International Women's Day with graphics, but not with actions. You know, people see through that now, but one thing that I've always noticed is that the small business landscape, independent businesses, especially really small companies, are absolutely leading the way with being values led, um, and, um, yeah, authentic in that way. So yeah, you see these businesses being sustainable from the word go. You see them supporting, um, you know, different types of people, accessibility from the word go instead of just putting across a, a blanket statement about their, their action towards this, like some of the bigger companies do. And, um, you know, basically today's consumer wants to know that their money is making a difference in the world, wants to know that they're supporting companies that you know, are ethically good or at least aren't corrupt. And, you know, basically the landscape of our world now, we, we, we vote with our wallets.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:19:24

That makes sense. And I think what's interesting about what you're saying is I think it's much more about what you do than what you say as well. And that's something I just picked up on because you're right, there has been a, you know, it feels like every other week there's another greenwashing story in the press. Don't shop here because they say this, that they do that. But I think what you do is almost more powerful than what you say. So I don't think this is necessarily about having a page on your website that says, these are our brand values. Because you can kind of show what your values are for your actions. And I think that's al always almost more powerful. So for example, I recently shopped somewhere and then after I placed the order, I got an email that said, thank you for your order, we've planted one tree. Um, yeah, because, and I hadn't actually seen on the website that they did that, possib. Quite possibly, yeah, it said that, but it wasn't immediately obvious. But when I got the email saying about the tree, I was like, oh, I was, I felt quite happy and I thought that was a nice, yeah, and it felt, that kind of gave me an impression of the kind of company that they were.

Cara Bendon: 00:20:21

Absolutely no, I, I, I completely agree. That's really nice. Um, and yes, my opinion is that a value is nothing without a commitment. So, um, I always challenge my clients if we're, if we're doing some values work, that they think about how they, how they are committing or can commit to that, what action they can take. But, you know, I think for small businesses as well, it's not like the onus is on you to completely change the world. You've also, you know, you've got to make money. Um. But it's like, it's how you do that in a way that is true to your values is really important. Um, so sustainability is one that you know is really high on the agenda at the moment. And, you know, it's, it's very important to me as well. But, um, it, that's, you know, it, it, it, that's getting all of the attention as it were. But your values can also, um, contain things that are quite specific to you. And I think that's actually a place that brands can stand out a bit as well, because if they have these values, for example, it might be, um, that, um, you know, they want that the, the founder's story relates to mental health and their, their value is to always, you know, support mental health of their team. And then their action is that anybody can call on the morning of a day they're supposed to work and say, I need a mental health day, or whatever it might be, you know, rather than just, uh, lip service to it. If that's, if that's something that they could do through their business, or if it's a one man band and that's the commitment, then, you know, it's, it's about being true to that. In, in terms of, okay, it might be, um, uh, charitable contributions to, you know, a charity that would support mental health, but it also could be about having a pillar of content that shares things about mental health. Um, you know, and encourages that as, as something within the brand itself, within other posts such as, you know, self-care or meditation or movement. Because actually it doesn't always have to be, oh, right, you know, who do I write a check for in order to prove this value? It's about how are you bringing this through to your community and your audience? That's actually just as valuable.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:22:36

Yeah, absolutely. And I was thinking about this, of knowing that we were going to speak and I was trying to think of some examples because I, I like to shop with small businesses and I do shop with small businesses and a few things that I've seen sort of recently is, um, businesses that sort of commit to only sending orders in, um, recyclable packaging for example. And that's, it feels like a small thing, but it kind of demonstrates their values or because or companies that have excellent customer service where you send an email and then you get um, you know, you, you get a reply back within an hour. I mean, you don't need to reply that soon, but you know what I mean. You get a personalized reply, that's really nice. Or I shopped in somewhere recently and they put a little like chocolate bunny in with my older. So it's a really small thing, but it just gives you, as a customer a really nice feeling about that brand. Um, and I'm sure you've got tons more examples, Cara. Can we talk a little bit about that? About how you can stand out and make your customers feel as happy as I did when I got a chocolate bunny in the post.

Cara Bendon: 00:23:33

Well, I think everyone should put a chocolate bunny in every package, but yeah. Well I think that even things like that email about the trees being planted was a good way of doing that because, and, and I've always liked Etsy that they, their packaging said that you are, um, delivering it was off offset and that's nice. Um, I mean, going back to, you know, the, the values just briefly something that, um, that occurred to me is that, if, so certain small businesses may have certain days that they, that they ship things. And that may seem very contrary to our, you know, um, convenience, um, society where we want things as soon as possible. But if it's very clear, clear in the brand why they do it, and say it was to reduce carbon emissions with trips to somewhere that they could post them or whatever, or even if it was, you know, to save on uh, man hours because it's somebody and they are balancing it alongside something else or their mental health. Then if it was communicated clearly, I think that people would come to respect that and understand that from the brand. Um, but moving back to, uh, chocolate bunnies, um, I, I think that is a guaranteed win, but I think that any little thing that brings a little bit of charm, and it's funny you said chocolate bunnies actually, because of, I actually call these like Easter eggs as in that term that you'd have for, um, for, uh, films where it's little things that are like secret, um, in jokes as it were, except that they're not in jokes. They're something where you are bringing a little bit of your brand to life with your customer. You are having a little bit more connection because, um, you know, the relationship between brand and consumer only grows with more connections. So, you know, it's little things like, um, I, I've had packaging where, um, the tone of voice on it has been really amusing. Uh, rather than sort of, uh, having a load of access information, uh, you know, um, it, or it, it, it's, it's provided the information that's required, but in a, in a way that was a little bit more, um, humorous. That's been quite fun. Sometimes you see it when you pick up an item and underneath it says something like, nothing to see here, you know, and it's, um, and actually I love, um, tip tree jams. It's just such a small thing, but they're minis and you get them sometimes when you go to hotels and stuff, and they all have sweet messages underneath. Um, so things like, you know, uh, I'm not sure exact, I can't actually remember the, the message I last got, but they're always quite sweet, uplifting things and that's just nice. It's like a complete added and unexpected extra. Nobody would look at the market of, of condiments and say, right jams, in order to be a professional jam brand, we clearly, you know, this is a requirement. It's just something extra that they've done. They've associated breakfast or jam, you know, maybe you'll have jam on toast or they've, they've associated that with a little moment of joy. A moment for yourself, and they've played into that with a message. I also, um, a, a previous, uh, guest on your podcast, uh, was Be Greater, um, shoes, the Barefoot, uh, kids Shoes. And I, well, I love listening to your podcast and discovering brands. It's one of my favorite things to do. But, um, I loved when, when, um. Uh, I was listening to that interview, um, what he was describing, that he'd put a smiley face in the centre of the, of the insole of the shoes. Um, and it was half a smiley face in each shoe. Now for me, I was already sold. I was like, I love it. It's cheerful, it's unexpected. It doesn't affect the product in any negative way. Only brings a little bit of private joy. Um, which is lovely. But then when I understood the reason I was even more sold. And the reason is that, um, it's to encourage your children to independently be able to put their shoes on the right feet because the, you know, the left and the right would join together to make a smile. So when you're laying out your shoes, the child would be able to tell whether they were the right way round because the smile would be formed or it wouldn't. And, um, I thought that was great. I thought not only is that something that's bringing a little bit of charm, it's actually adding value to that product. It gives it a little bit more practicality and, and, and it's a real U S P for them.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:27:58

I really love that too. Um, and I, anything, I think any little added thing, and particularly when it doesn't necessarily have to cost you as a brand or be a big inconvenience. So another shoe related example, this is actually a bigger brand, but I brought my daughter some new school shoes and they actually came in a box and the box was, had like some sort of sea life patterns all over. Just, you know, the standard cardboard box, you get shoes in.

Cara Bendon: 00:28:22

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:28:22

And it was designed for the child to then colour and then use to, you know, put toys in or do whatever they wanted to do with. And I just thought that was so clever because it encourages you to keep the box rather than just recycle it immediately, you know, if your child loves colouring or maybe, I like colouring, actually. Um, it's quite a fun thing to have. I just thought that was a really nice thing that probably didn't cost them anymore to produce than producing the standard box with the logo on. But it was just like a really nice little extra. And I think as a customer, it's always lovely when you get something unexpected, and it doesn't have to be a physical thing. It's like you say, even like a little message or something that, just, just anything that makes you smile really.

Cara Bendon: 00:29:03

Yeah, absolutely. So, um, I, in our last, uh, conversation we spoke about, um, the unboxing experience a little, and we actually spoke about beauty pie and how they were ones that did that really well in terms of providing that experience. But also, uh, you know, they are a quite big company and there's lots of smaller companies doing great stuff as well. And one thing that, you know, in terms of the sustainability angle, something I've been giving a lot of thought to is how can you provide that unboxing experience, but still be true to that sustainability value. And um, you know, I think that reusing the box is one of the best ways to do that. However, if it's a, if it's covered in branding, you are unlikely to do that, even if it's a fairly sturdy box in a nice colour. I know I'm not as inclined to, I mean, I might put my Christmas decorations in it, but I'm probably not as likely to have it on display. Um, I love that example you gave because it's actually, it comes from a value. It comes from the value of sustainability and wanting people to reuse the box. It actually, um, will probably help create, um, extend their brand awareness because you keep the box in the house and it gave you a good customer experience, so you're more likely to tell people about it or shop for a similar product from them again. Um, but also the fact that it was colouring in, you know, now obviously because that was a kid's product that makes sense because it was like, oh, you know, it's a fun activity for children to do. It's almost, it provides an activity. So the parents are happy, it gives the child something to do for half an hour, whatever. But. Yeah. There's many other ways you could, you could bring that in. Like for example, a, a brand who had mindfulness or wellbeing as a goal could do something similar on a smaller scale. And, and, and that could be nice. Um, but I think. Just basically, I think workshopping it and brainstorming is the way, because trying to just think, what, how could I do this better? How could I do this differently? What's brought me joy in the past? What works for our customer and our audience? And not just doing something just because you heard it from another brand and it sounds as cool because the, the, you know, the opposite of that is just getting a load of paper, a load of inserts when you order something and then actually feeling quite bad because, well, if you're like, you put them in a drawer for a week because you think, oh, I'll read those next time I have a coffee. And then you realize life just doesn't give you the time for that kind of thing. And they go in the recycling and then you feel bad. So it's like, you know, obviously you have to have some, but it's not just shoving a loads of extra stuff in there for the sake of, it's about thinking what works for your customer and your brand.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:31:48

I think you're right because also if you're just copying what someone else is doing, but there's no meaning behind it, I guess it could also feel quite inauthentic. Yeah, and I, again, I can't think of a good example of this now, but I've definitely had experiences where something hasn't felt quite right. And I think that is an instance. And I've, to be honest, I've never had this with small businesses. It's mainly been with bigger businesses where they, I guess they've been kind of trying to emulate something they've seen small businesses do, but it doesn't work on that scale. It doesn't feel in line of the brand. Does that make sense? I wish I could think of a good example of that, but do you kind of know what I mean?

Cara Bendon: 00:32:22

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I think that a consumer can sense if a brand is just trying to do what they expect, what they, what they feel is expected. Um, and you know, especially for product business owners. You know, you are, uh, entrepreneurs most of the time, and I find that incredibly inspiring. If you are coming up with a product or a way of doing things that is better or different, um, to how it has been done before, then that's incredibly, um, entrepreneurial and you can use that mindset to also approach the rest, e everything about your business. And it will, it will actually strengthen the brand. Um, So it's like if you are inventive about your product and then you know, you carry that through, it's, it's, it's being disruptive and saying, okay, what are the norms and how could I do this differently? And just to clarify, this is very much going above and beyond. I'm not saying that everyone needs to constantly disrupt at every level, but if you can disrupt in the way that you send things your, any part of the customer journey that in a way that relates to, you know, uh, your brand values, your brand personality, and your audience, then it's going to really help you stand out and be remembered. It's going to make a big impression.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:33:44

You are right. And it doesn't necessarily have to be like a big thing either, does it? So we are not trying to say that everyone listening needs to go away and completely change all aspects of their business, but it might even be, yeah, switching to recycled packaging or having packaging in your brand colours, because that's something you can do now. I think it could be something really, really tiny. Um. But I think it's just thinking about what represents you and your brand.

Cara Bendon: 00:34:09

I think it's a really good exercise to pretend you're a customer and buy your product, um, because, um, if that's possible for you, but, um, I think that because say you've been in business six months, or you've been in business six years, um, I don't know where the figure six came from, by the way. But anyway, if you, you, um. To some extent, you might have disconnected from what the user experience is and, um, if if, yeah, if that's the case, I mean, you can either get someone else to do it. If you can do it, that might be helpful as long as you can just, uh, be as objective as possible and just see, and I mean, I, I do it sometimes. I, I, you know, uh, just to see how people come across my website and things like that. You can see what one improvement could you make along that journey? Could you make things a little bit less? Um, yeah. Could you take a little point of friction out of the customer journey in buying with you? Could you add a little bit of charm somewhere along there? Could you know, is is there a brand value that you could consolidate for yourself so that you know what it is that you could try and spring into your brand if you, you know, it's all about incremental, uh, changes in progress. And if you were able to do that much, then you'd be making a huge, huge improvement.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:35:31

I think that's such a great idea because there's, there's possibly things all of us completely overlook. So as an example of that, years ago when I had my own products business and I had a Shopify site, when someone placed an order with me, they would obviously get the email saying, thank you for your order, whatever it was. And one, one time a customer got that email and they replied to me. Um, and maybe they had a question or something, or, and it was only when they replied, I realized how dull the email was that they got, because I'd never gone in and edited the template. This is such a small thing, but it was, the email was something, you know, very, it didn't sound like me. It was just, thank you for your words, I'll let you know. And it's whatever it was. Yeah. And as soon as I realized, I just updated that with a personal email that said, hi, thanks, bye. I can't, whatever I put and put my name on it, and that kind of thing. And interestingly, after I did that, I started getting so many more replies to those emails. Oh. Um, Just from people interest saying, yeah. Uh, it was, I found it really fascinating that people were taking the time. I actually got some emails that just says, thanks, you know, thank you for this nice email. And I was like, oh, that's so interesting. And I completely overlooked that that was something that I could impact. It wasn't, and it was tough. I never thought, didn't even realize. Um, so I think that's a great idea.

Cara Bendon: 00:36:48

That's it. I absolutely just go through the process and just even put it in your own tone of voice, your own brand colours, and you know, I've been guilty of this, you know, so I'm a service business, but I have the template shop and that's relatively new for my business. And I didn't realize that I had the same thing. I had some fairly generic looking pages for checkout, and you know, these things are relatively limited. I know that with Shopify and many other sites, you, you've got to live within the rules. It's upload a logo here, choose the colour here, and that's it. You know, but where there, wherever there's text and wherever that text is edited, editable, that's an opportunity to bring in a little bit of brand personality, a bit of tone of voice. I mean, you could, if you wanted, even at that point, have a little bit about your business, um, you know, why that receiving that order helps or, you know, a little bit of brand story, something like that. I mean, I know that's after the event that they've bought, but if, if that isn't something that you think has been communicated uh enough before, then why not offer it then? Um, but yeah, so basically, yeah, just looking through and seeing where there's an opportunity to, to be more human in the process.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:38:00

I think that's great advice. I think being humans is really important and it really does help. Um, to give another example, if you don't mind, is that when I obviously helped lots of people selling on Amazon and years ago, because this isn't something you can do now. Years ago you used to be able to get some software that integrated from Amazon so that when a customer brought from you, they would get an email that was from you. So as well as getting the Amazon thank you for your order. They would also get, thank you for buying for my small business. Um, this is who I am. If you have any problems, let me know. What I found really interesting is with my clients who implemented this kind of email system, their return rate started going down because the customer then had a point of contact to go back to and say, my order hasn't arrived, or it's arrived, but this is the problem. Can you help me? So whereas previously they might have just gone onto Amazon and left a bad review, they were actually reaching out to the business because they then had that point of contact and explaining what their issues were and then most of the time the business could then solve that issue and it just prevented them getting a negative review or or a return. And I found that super interesting. And I think it was just because, and I think this is sort of a thing that to think about if you're selling, even if you're selling on a platform like Amazon or Etsy or somewhere else, there's still plenty of opportunity to kind of get across who you are and a bit about your business. So it's not so faceless because I feel like if it feels faceless you are more likely to perhaps leave a ruthless review, maybe.

Cara Bendon: 00:39:30

That's exactly right. No, but that's what I was thinking when you were saying that. I think that's fascinating. But that's exactly it. I think that people, um, um, you know, there's no emotive connection with a faceless corporation. So you buy from Amazon, you don't feel anything for, for, you know, ordering too many and then returning lots or whatever it might be, because they're Amazon, you, you've seen in the news about them. They can take the losses, they can take the hits, whatever, but as soon as it becomes a small business that's, you know, operating a, a leg of their business through Amazon, um, then it's human. And not only have you, yeah, as you said, they can actually get in touch if it's a practical issue, but I think I wouldn't be surprised if the returns rate decreased because it felt more like a real person behind the business and then, you know, felt more like, yeah, not as disposable.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:40:27

I think so, and I know we've spoken on projects that we've worked on together. We've definitely spoken about encouraging brands to actually put a bit about their business on there, maybe even a photograph of themselves, just so that people can see. Um, I mean as you, you'll have seen on Amazon, now you do get, if you have a small business, you do have a small business logo. Someone knows they're buying from a small business. But you can take it that step further. You can add your brand story, you can add a photograph of yourself. You can give that background. Um, and that's something you've been able to do for a while. Um, I've certainly been encouraging clients to do this for a really long time because I think it is that important that if you are in a marketplace like that where you could get lost among all the other people selling similar products, I think that's a, that's kind of a place where it's really important to make an effort to stand out.

Cara Bendon: 00:41:15

Definitely, and, and if you, you know, if the thought of putting your picture up on your Amazon page or on your website just terrifies you, then there is a, a, a slightly softer approach as well, which is actually when it comes to your photography, when you are getting brand photos done, try and get a few of you in the process of designing the product or making it if you're a maker or just packaging it if you know, but in some part of doing, and therefore it doesn't have to be a complete headshot if you were really uncomfortable with that. But those pictures as well are so valuable. I mean, I've had a candle client and uh, the hand poured client, uh, had poured candles and you know, that's something that we communicate. Uh, through the brand and it's part of, you know, what makes them special. Uh, they're, they're made with really good quality waxes, et cetera, et cetera. And the number of times that I have just wished that we had, um, more making images, um, to be able to communicate that has, you know, it's been high. So I'd say that that would be a tip as well to take away from this is if you, if you haven't had a photo shoot done or you haven't had one done in a while, you've changed your hair, you look different. Or it's just your old, your photos are a little old now. Then definitely if you are considering one, then definitely get a few behind the scenes type photos because not only can you use them on social media, but that they can be connected with your brand story on places like you're about page. And they really help people like to see people, people like to understand who it is that they're buying from. Um, so they're really powerful that way.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:42:52

I think you're, you're definitely right. They are really powerful and I know not everyone likes your idea of using like a corporate headshot. Um, I certainly don't, um, when I had my brand faces and I got some, you know, photos of me doing other stuff done for that reason. Um, and also I guess they can sometimes, in some instances they can look a bit old fashioned, but as you say, if you can illustrate what you do. For example, I'm working with a company now who makes olive oil and um, one of the photos they use is a photo of them in their own, is it a vineyard? In their own, on their own.

Cara Bendon: 00:43:23

Yeah. I'm not.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:43:24

Orchard. It's a photo handpicking basically.

Cara Bendon: 00:43:28

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:43:28

There's a photo of them out there doing the, picking themselves. And I think that's really nice because not only does it show you the people, because it's a family business, it's not only shows you the people working in the business, but it actually shows you them working in the business. So they don't need to, they say pictures, it's, there's a thousand words. They don't need to tell you it's a family business and that they can pick everything because they've got a photo of them doing it. And I, I. I really liked that when I went to take a look, I was like, that's really good because it just says so much. Like I think if you are a maker, having pictures of you making your products would be amazing. Um.

Cara Bendon: 00:44:03

Absolutely. So actually it's funny, I feel like perhaps because we're recording this just before Easter, we're coming back to Easter eggs and chocolate bunnies constantly, but I feel like, uh, this is something I just, I once. Uh, called the Lindor of that particular client because, you know, they're adverts where, you know, Lindor is a, a prob I, I'm not even sure how it's produced now, but I assume it's, uh, uh, mass produced now it's available in all supermarkets, uh, very well known, but that they keep that narrative that it's made, um, in Switzerland by chocolatier who are, who are wearing chef's hats and ensuring that consistencies just right before they pour it. Um, and you know, actually we love, we buy on emotions. I mean, I, I booked restaurants, um, for a special occasion, and I was sold because, you know, I, I think my stomach even started to rumble when I looked at the pictures of them making pasta because they were putting it through the pasta press. And it was like, yeah, that's better than just showing me, uh, you know, uh, an interior with a chandelier and some wine bars on a table. Because now I know that you take your food really seriously because you make the pasta from scratch. So I, you know, I'm in.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:45:12

Yeah, and actually what's really interesting is that in that example, I think that seems like it was more powerful than if they showed you a picture of the finished pasta dish on a plate.

Cara Bendon: 00:45:20

Yeah. Well, I think, I think sometimes you want a bit of both to be, yeah. But, but yeah, but I, I agree. I think there was something about that image that. Immediately told the story, it immediately told me a story of pasta being made in traditional methods as it always was, you know, as it still is by a lot of Nonnas in Italy. And, you know, and it, it, it, it, you know, it probably, I'm being very naive about this in my urban life, but it brought this whole lovely narrative of caring about ingredients and food and process to life in one picture.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:45:57

That makes sense. And I think hopefully, um, because I don't think we've gone off, well, we haven't gone off topic, but we have been sharing lots and lots of examples. But I really hope that this will help sort of spark everyone's creativity and imagination. Um, and that we've spoken about at least one thing that you can now go away and do or think about. Um, because I think we have hopefully thrown out lots and lots of ideas here. And I think, um, something else that I'll add, if you don't mind, Cara, is, is. It's, I think if you are thinking about you want to do something a bit different in your business, maybe disrupt things slightly. Like you said, it's not about copying other people, but just see what other people do. Kind of take notice when you buy things like what you like and what you don't like about, whether it's the ordering process or the emails you get or how the products packaged or whatever it is. I think it's one of those things where we kind of, we're all busy and it just happens, but I think if you start taking notice of that sort of thing, um, there's a lot you can pick up on.

Cara Bendon: 00:46:53

Definitely, and I think if there's anything that comes to mind, uh, sooner, then that was an example of a brand that was doing it well because it stood out.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:47:02

Yeah, that's true actually. I guess you can, you can all think back to like the last time that you were like really delighted by something that you brought and, um, I'm sure that hopefully for all of us, there'll be something that comes to mind right away.

Cara Bendon: 00:47:14

Yeah, and I, I mean, it's a big ask as well to say really delighted. Sometimes it's just the small things. What just made you smile slightly when you were standing in the queue to buy it or when it came through on email, you know that I think that's a great thing to aim for.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:47:29

Yeah, I'd be honest, I am easily delighted. That's why I use that example.

Cara Bendon: 00:47:34

No, I mean that's.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:47:34

I'm a great customer.

Cara Bendon: 00:47:36

If you could delight people, then brilliant. But I don't want people to feel like, oh God, what? What have I bought in the last month?

Vicki Weinberg: 00:47:44

Not everyone will be as easily impressed as I am. I do understand that it doesn't take a lot.

Cara Bendon: 00:47:51

We, we work in the industry, so we have a slightly atypical behavior with these things, and I'm the same. I'm like always, you know, noticing packaging of photographing, packaging and shops and, you know, looking like quite a weirdo. But yeah, definitely the small things, even to the most hardened consumer, they will still register a part of your brand in a way that others aren't.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:48:13

And I guess it, it all ties back to just helping you stand out. Stand out, which I guess is what having your brand is about.

Cara Bendon: 00:48:21

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Um, yeah, so.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:48:25

That feels like a great place to wrap things up Cara.

Cara Bendon: 00:48:28

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:48:28

But I do have one more question for you if that's okay. So I think we've covered so much today and I almost feel like this is a bit about um, enhancing your brand because a lot of businesses might have thought about the visual elements, and I think that it, that can be a thing you think about first. I know that when I worked on my very first brand, it was all about the visuals. That was really all I took into account. And then the other stuff, the values and everything else came later. So what would your number one piece of advice be for someone who perhaps has a brand but is looking to enhance or build upon what they have so far?

Cara Bendon: 00:49:06

Yes, definitely. So I was thinking about this and I would say it's revisit your about page. So if you have an about page, um, or if you don't have an about page, it's time to make one. And if you have your about page, but it's really hidden, then it's not on the top nav, then let's change that too. We want to make it very easy for people to be able to find out a little bit more about you and your brand. Um, but if you do have an about page, then just revisit it and see, does it cover things such as, you know, your founder story, why your business came to life in the beginning? Um, and by who, what solution were you, you know, were you trying to solve? When was it and, and who was it? Um, and a really nice way I always love when businesses do this is include some historic photos along the journey of your business. So if your business is, you know, uh, just started in the last few months, then that might not be as relevant. But if there is some story or even some story from your past, for example, say you had a dress that you adored as a child and you tried to find one similar as an adult and couldn't, so you'd started designing dresses, then why not include a picture of that lovely dress that sparks it all? Um, if you, if your business name, I have one of my previous clients. Um, it's a florist and, um, the business name is Wild Rosamond and, uh, the, the client's name is not Rosamond. Uh, she's called Bridget. But actually the story is that her grandmother Rosamond loved the garden and was always in the garden. And that a, you know, a, uh, core memory for Bridget when she was growing up was spending time in the garden with her grandma. So, you know, telling the story of your business name, um, is, is really nice to. Another brand that does that well is Oto and Ivy, um, who I just came across actually, um, through a podcast as well and their name. So they make shoes for larger feet and their name Oto is, um, eight in, um, in Latin and Ivy because it grows tall. So, Eight, representing a large women's shoe size, um, which is their starting size and Ivy representing, you know, elegance and tall. It, it makes complete sense to me. So Basical, uh, yeah, if you can explain how you came about, if there is a story behind your, your business and your, your brand name, then share it. If you've got any photos of the pro process, then share it and do have your values on there too. And make sure that they are underpinned. Yeah. Make sure that your values feel like things that are authentic to your business and things that you can make, um, actual commitments in the way you do things.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:51:45

That's amazing. Thank you. And Clara, I know you have loads of resources, um, that will be really helpful to small businesses. Is there anything you would like us to go and look at first? Um, what would, what would you suggest if people want a little bit of support?

Cara Bendon: 00:52:00

Yeah, so I am actually working on creating a lot of resources in this area because it's something that I get asked a lot. Um, so I have a website branding made simple.co.uk or if you go to cara bendon.com, it's on the shop tab. And there you can find, um, templates and tools of things that I have used with one-on-one clients. Um, and I'm working on one at the moment, which is going to help you work out your values. Um, And I'm really pleased with that actually, because, um, not to sound smug, but it's something that I think I worked on my values. I reassessed them, uh, uh, about a year and a half ago when I rebranded. And it was a really useful exercise for me to do. And, um, it actually gave me a lot of clarity in how, what content I should be putting out and the, and the way I, some certain business decision. So I think it's really good and I'm, I'm all for basically helping businesses create values that feel true to them rather than just platitudes that they feel that they must have. And then that immediately communicates a lot of your brand personality and cares as well. So, um, yeah, I'd say that would be a great one to start with.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:53:14

Amazing. And they're available on your shop?

Cara Bendon: 00:53:17

Yeah, they are on my shop on my website. So, uh, it's branding made Simple .com. Uk, um, or on the shop tab of my main website. Um, I believe you, we could put the links in the, uh, show notes.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:53:30

Oh, we'll definitely put in the links. Yeah.

Cara Bendon: 00:53:31

Brilliant. And, um, I have an offer as well. So for, um, I love this podcast. I think it's a fantastic resource and I love listening to it personally. So for all listeners, I've got an anytime offer of 20% off on all of the templates. With the code Vicki 20 as well.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:53:48

That's amazing. Thank you so much. It's so kind of you, Cara. So that's Vicki with an I, everyone if you want to use that offer. But we'll also put the details in the show notes and of course if you have any questions about the code or anything else, then do feel free to reach out as well. Brilliant, and thank you so much for being here again, Cara.

Cara Bendon: 00:54:06

Thank you so much. It's been, it's been wonderful to have a, a lovely conversation with you about this. Something I'm very passionate about.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:54:13

Thank you. Thank you so much for listening right to the end of this episode. Do remember that you can get the full back catalogue and lots of free resources on my website, vicki weinberg.com. Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it, and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful. Thank you again, and see you next week.