The importance of knowing your numbers – with Tas – Very Craftea

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:08

Welcome to the Bring Your Product Ideas To Life podcast, practical advice, and inspiration to help you create and sell your own physical products. Here's your host Vicki Weinberg. Hi. So today I'm talking to Tas from Very Craftea. Tas exists to help all people create moments, to feel comforted and included by creating the best products accessible to everyone without compromise ever. So Tas sells two separate products in well two separate product lines in her business. She sells, um, organic teas and also craft kits. Um, hence Very Craftea. And, um, this was a really fascinating conversation I had with Tas. We spoke about how her, you know, her inspiration for starting the business, how she went about it. And she had some fantastic advice for anyone else looking to start a product business as well. So I really enjoyed this conversation and I hope that you do too. You ready?

Tas: 00:01:05

Yep.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:08

So, hi Tas. Thank you so much for being here.

Tas: 00:01:11

Thank you very much for asking me.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:12

Oh, I'm really excited to talk to you. So can we start by you please give an introduction to yourself, your business and what it is that you sell?

Tas: 00:01:20

Yeah, sure. So, uh, my name is, uh, Tasmine Rodrent, or recently I recently just got married. Um, and I run a business called, uh, Very Craftea in which I sell, consciously sourced, loose leaf tea and, um, embroidery kits. Hence the name, I suppose.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:39

It's a, it's a great name and congratulations on your wedding as well. Yeah, I really so much. I really like, I really like the name. Um, so can you tell us, how did you come up with the idea for Very Craftea? So how, and when I guess let's start there.

Tas: 00:01:53

Okay, so it started, so I've just been in business just over five and a half years now. Um, and it started when I met, um, met somebody who is now one of my best friends at a, um, kniting class that were held. They held in, uh, the city that we lived and we met each other there and we quickly realized after a few weeks of going to this kniting class, we weren't very good at it. So, um, we, uh, decided to not go to knitting class, but come back to my house and we would, uh, drink cups of tea and, uh, watch, um, TV. I think it was Master Chef Professionals is the, our go-to thing when it was on. And, um, uh, my friend, uh, Natalie, she was saying oh, you, you know, one day she just said, oh, you know, this is really the life, you know, sitting down with like good friends, good cups of tea, you know, just relaxing. She goes, oh, if we had like, you know, something that we could do, like embroidery or something, we could be, you know, having tea and crafting, we'd be like, oh, you know, we'd be like craftea, like, you know, very crafting. I was like, oh, that's gonna be good name. I'm just gonna write that down for no reason whatsoever. And then I wrote it, wrote it down. And the more and more I thought about it. And the more I thought, like the name was really good. And I just thought that really is like something that without realizing, I think people do like, they'll sit down and they'll, they'll either pick up something like a hobby that they want, that they want to do, or, um, drinking some tea, relaxing, like trying to get away from like screens and things like that. And it just, it just makes sense that the two go together and that's where it came from really. And that's how it started. Oh, that's brilliant. Thank you for sharing that. And I'm with you as well. Because I quite like a little bit of cross-stitch and a bit of crochet and it is nice to just sit down with your cup of tea and an armchair and just do something. And as you say, nice to do it with other people as well. Yeah, exactly. It's just the, like, even though it can be like quite a, a solo, um, activity, you can do it with other people, even if it's not the same project. It can be, you know, it's the whole getting people together from like, from ev from like, regardless of what ability you've got or, you know, what you've done before, you know, even if you've not done anything like that, it's so there, you know, so easy to pick something up and just try it and, you know, you know, meeting new people. And especially since we've had so much time of not seeing anybody or talking to anybody, um, you know, it's a really good time now to like get back into that and engage in doing something like that.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:04:25

Oh, definitely. And so after you came up with the idea what happened then? So what did you do? What were your first steps in terms of turning it from an idea into a business?

Tas: 00:04:36

Uh, yeah. You know, it's so long ago now it's really just, sometimes it's really difficult to like go back and it's really easy to like, um, it's really easy to think to yourself. Oh, I've not really achieved anything, but when you go back, like I try and look at like old photos and things like that, of where, where I've come from to where I am now. It's just, it's just, um, you know, such a big jump. And you don't realize that because you are in your business, but when, like when it's, when, when I came up with the idea of thinking, right, okay, I'm going to just try and see how this works as a business. The first thing was trying to find, um, a tea supplier and I knew I wanted, um, some, uh, like a firm or a company that could help me that were, um, you know, their, their ethos was, um, uh, sustainability and ethical and, um, and all these sorts of things, because anybody can go to any big company and buy wholesale tea, but you know, for cheap money and, but you don't know where it's come from. You don't know where, how the workers are treated. You don't know um, if the companies are saying what they do, they're actually doing it, those sorts of things. So I spent a long time looking for those sorts of companies. And particularly when I started off, there were a lot of companies that didn't want to speak to me because, you know, I, I only wanted to order like a kilo of tea, for example, to start off with. And they're like, oh no, our minimum was like 10,000. And it's like, oh, okay. And, um, and, uh, you know, it was just, you know, it's a bit sole destroying to start off with, but you just have to plug away. and then you end up finding a company like I did, who, um, have the same ethos. They give, um, 50% of their profits back to the farming regions where we get the teas from. Um, you know, so it's all holistically, it's all goes in the same sort of ethos that I believe in as an individual, as well as bringing that, those values to my business. So, um, so yeah, so that's where that was the main thing where that came from. Craft side of it was a bit more hit and miss to start off with. I started, um, buying kits from other small businesses, um, or other businesses in general. Um, but it was hard. It was really hard and really difficult to explain the link between the tea and the crafting kits. When the crafting kits weren't really mine and the um, the design of them didn't really match with me as an individual and my customers that I ended up, um, um, acquiring through, um, you know, things, you know, the posts that I did on social media and stuff like that. So that took a lot longer, but now we've, you know, I've got a range of designs that are a bit, a bit out there, a bit unique, a bit more, um, not standard and you know, nothing that you would find in, um, you know, some, some magazines potentially, because of some of the nature of the, of the mottos and things like that. So it's a bit, so it's a bit more on the, um, uh, edgy side I suppose. Um, but yeah, that, that took some time, but we're was starting to get a bit of traction now on that, which is really good.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:07:46

That's really exciting. And I've got so many follow up questions from that Tas, where to start, but firstly, I'll say, um, it's really interesting when you said, oh, um, you don't feel like you've done that much because it's, it's interesting. So many people I talk to on the podcast, it's only when they sort of share their story, they go, oh wow. I've come a long way or wow, haven't I done a lot. Because you're right, it's so easy to just take for granted where you are. Right now. And I think, especially because if the, if the early bit is hard and challenging, it can be quite easy to not forget, but I think maybe block it out slightly. Um, I don't whether it's conscious or not, but yeah, I think it can be kind, kind of easy to sort of overlook all the hard things you went through to get your business where it is.

Tas: 00:08:28

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think because we are so particularly if you are a business and you are on social media, you end up finding other businesses, just, you know, through, uh, you know, uh, they come up like, you know, to, you know, for you pages or Instagram on the discover pages and things like that. And you'll see these people who have overnight started a business from zero to like a hundred thousand or million or something like that. And you think to yourself, well, I've been, you know, I've, you know, I say this to myself a lot and particularly this year, it's really difficult. And, um, I think for myself, you know, I've been doing this five years. Why am I, you know, I'm not there yet, but then I look back at these, you know, my first, like I say, in inverted commas event, it was like a little street party near my house. I had one table that wasn't even mine. It was like somebody's, um, lent me it, um, with like a table cloth. Oh no, not even the table cloth. It was a scarf of my mums that I covered the top with, with five different teas. Um, and that was it. That's all I had just like five little, um, five bags of tea and that's all I had to now I've got 20 different types of tea. I have, um, you know limited edition ones that I have for, um, some of my wholesale customers, I've got like a range of accessories. I've got this whole new range of craft kits and stuff like that. And it's like, those things do take time and it was more organic. And because I suppose, because you work hard, you know that you've worked hard, but you know the pitfalls and you know what you've spent your money on and it's gone wrong or you know what you've spent your money on and it's gone right. And all these sorts of things and it's just, and it is sometimes really difficult just to think to yourself, well, I don't know why I'm not, you know, this massive, uh, massive company now, but it's been a slow and organic thing. And, and I think I, I would prefer to do it this way because otherwise I wouldn't have learned as much as I, I have by doing it in such a quick way, because, you know, even when I started out you know, even like the, um, you know, the few like five pound sales that I did, or, you know, an event where I took in total 20 pounds and it covered my table or something like that. If you don't have those like grounding sort of, um, um, opportunities or, um, yeah, opportunities or, you know, experiences it's, it's difficult to then to then when things are a bit slower or you're not growing as quick to realize, because you've not seen the organic growth, I suppose of it.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:10:59

Yeah, I agree. And I think, like you said, when you, you look back, I think it's easier to kind of appreciate where you are now, when you look back to those days where, you know, when you are only making 20 pounds in an afternoon or whatever it is, I think it, yeah, it really makes you more appreciative of where you are, even if you are still not, um, maybe where you want to be. Ultimately it's still, you can still measure the progress.

Tas: 00:11:22

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. If you've not got, if you're not seeing the slow growth, it's difficult to, it is also, it's also difficult. If you don't have that slow growth, it's difficult to see what's working and what isn't working. And if it's just all from zero to a hundred straight away, but there's things that haven't been working, but if something else has taken over and done better, you won't know what, you know, what's taking the money out or taking your time out that you could outsource and things like that. It's. Yeah, it's it's I think it'd be a bit more difficult.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:55

Yeah, that makes sense because you're right with sort of growing slowly, you can sort of see the impact of every little thing that you do. Um, yeah. It's really interesting what you're saying about overnight successes as well. Because I don't know if you've ever heard me say this, but I'm, I'm also not a hundred percent convinced about those and someone can definitely prove me wrong on this. But sometimes I think sometimes I see someone and I feel like they've come out of nowhere, but then I think to myself, is that just, they've just come up on my radar, but actually they've been working really hard for two years, three years, five years. And it's just that I've just heard about them now. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, I, and I'm not to put anyone down because there will be people who do brilliantly right from the start and that's amazing. But I also like to say, because I think sometimes we can compare ourselves to people and we think, oh, we should be where they are, because they've only been in business six months and, you know, they're overtaking me whatever. But actually that might be six months plus three years of just logging away in the background around a day job, but you know, whatever it is. So, um, yeah. I only say that. Yeah because, not to put anyone down, but just to make people think, oh, I don't know because I think we can be really critical of ourselves. Um, and really what was so far the word of, so really complimentary of others and what they've done, but we are not always as kind to ourselves, so yeah.

Tas: 00:13:06

Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. And yeah, there are a lot of people who, um, I, yeah, I agree with that. They they've just appeared because they might have just appeared to us, but there's I saw a LinkedIn post. I think this morning of somebody who said, um, he got a comment from somebody saying, oh, it's because you were just lucky that, and he was going, no, but I've done all this. And he listed out all of the things that he was doing, you know, he'd done, you know, 400 hours of training. He'd done, you know, 150 videos over a year. Um, you know, and all these, you know, and all these sorts of things. That's how he's got his, his quote unquote overnight success. But it wasn't, it was a lot of hard work, um, over, you know, a year or two years prior to it, you know, working for him and getting bigger. And I think there's a lot of, I think we are getting a bit more, um, savy is not the right word, but do you know what I mean? Uh, and you know, looking at, and seeing these businesses and people on Facebook and going that's, that's not accurate. That's not a, that's not real. That's that isn't real to me. And I shouldn't be comparing myself to that. And I, you know, my journey will happen in whatever, in whatever speed it will happen. And it'll be ups and downs. Like everything is in life and it will just, it will work as it will work. And, um, you, you build the business to what you want it to be based on. Um, you know how you see the success of it grow going. And I think if you want it to be big, you know, you need to put the effort in and the work in and make it, you know, and it's a constant thing. But sometimes, you know, I had a chat with my another business friend of mine that we don't, you know, we would say that we, we don't want these, you know, looking at, um, you know, like Dragons' Den with like a three year planner and an exit strategy and all this sort of stuff. We want a business that works for us in our life. That we love doing and that's, and that's what it is really isn't it. So.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:15:03

Yeah, absolutely. That I feel exactly the same. Like I feel like, I think I'd almost be scared to have an overnight massive success which is such a silly thing to say. Maybe that's something more to do with my personality than anything else, but I don't know. I think we all have like, what success means is kind of different for all of us. Mm-hmm And as long as we are happy with our businesses and where we are and where we're going, that's fine. And something else I was just thinking about was actually, is that the algorithm doesn't help with all of this because you find like you see a company. And for me, it's mostly on Instagram because i'm on Instagram lot and I'll see a company and I think, oh, they look great. And then suddenly you are seeing all their posts and all their ads and you know, like the way that algorithms work. Suddenly, like they're just put in front of you all the time. And I think that kind of lends itself to the fact of, wow, they've suddenly come out of nowhere because you're suddenly just once they're on your radar, they're like everywhere. I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah. But I do think that plays into the whole feeling like, yeah someone's miles ahead of you or whatever it is, because suddenly you can't, you know, turn around about seeing their posts and everything. And I think, yeah, it's just the way like we get shown, you know, we show an interest in something and suddenly we are bombarded with it, but I don't think that helps if you're comparing yourself.. Because I feel like if you've got a competitor quite and you know, you start checking them out quite often, you just, all you're seeing is what they're doing, and that can be a bit disconcerting actually.

Tas: 00:16:26

I did, I did that as well. We all do that. I suppose when we start on social media, like follow people or follow competitors and things like that. And then I, and then about two or three years ago, I stopped doing that. I stopped and unfollowing all of them just because. One, it was, I was looking at them going, well, how come it's working for them? And I've done something like that. And it hasn't worked for me. And, um, or you feel like, you know, if you do something and they see, you know, and or if somebody sees it from there, you, they think you're copying them and all these sorts of things. And I was like, right, I'm not gonna do it because it's not, I don't like it. It's not making me feel good looking at their content. So I stopped doing it. And I started following more people that, um, that, you know, either, um, other small businesses in completely different areas that I really admired and have got friends with. And, you know, we share, um, you know, the highs and lows of, you know, of, uh, running a business or, you know, and other people, you know, such as yourself and other, um, uh, people that can, you know, have been able to provide advice and things, on things that could work and, um, you know, trying different avenues and things like that. I think it's too easy to fill up your grid with, um, with people that doing a similar thing to you and feeling, and, and it not being productive to how you are feeling in your business, particularly if you're feeling in a low place. Um, seeing, you know, seeing any, any sort of content that's, you know, that's, um, positive from, from someone else where you, you don't know about them and they've just got this overnight success, for example, is, is not gonna help. So my, I would recommend not following competitors. Um, if you can, and, you know, just fill it with people that you know, are inspiring to you or that you like, look, you know, you like looking at their content and that can help you rather than trying to compare yourself, because. So, what is it? Comparison is the, is the thief of joy or something isn't it. So, um, so yeah, so that's yeah, so that's what I've started doing now. Yeah. I don't follow any competitors really.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:31

That's such great advice because I think most of us at the beginning, we, we do do that. Um, and it sounds really obvious doesn't it? Just to unfollow them, but I think sometimes you don't because there's almost like a perverse thing in it. Like you sort of wanna see, but I think yeah, for your mental health and you'll that all the rest of it, I think unfollowing is brilliant advice. Um, yeah, I'm definitely gonna take that on board. I think, I think that's. You know, I think that's just really sensible for so many reasons. So let's come back to talking about your products, if that's okay. Tas after you gave us your introduction, I had so many questions. Um, wondering where to start. Let's start maybe, um, with your eco policy. So I know that's something that's important to you. You mentioned when you were. About when you were sourcing your teas, you were talking about only wanting to work with certain types of companies. So should we start there?

Tas: 00:19:19

Yeah. Yeah, sure. So, um, so yeah, so, like I said, at the beginning that you can, anybody could go, same with coffee, you can buy, you know, uh, you know, from, you know, wholesale like coffees and teas and things, but it's, I, I was never comfortable buying things that weren't, that I didn't know where they came from or that they, I didn't feel comfortable selling, because I didn't know the backstory or I didn't know, I wasn't sure that the, um, you know, like all the eco policies are there, all the ethical values were there. So, um, and I always, and like I say this to all my customers, that I only sell products that I use myself. So I only drink the tea, I only sell the teas that I drink. Um, so, so it'd be silly for me to buy things and, you know, seldom to people, if I wasn't comfortable about where they came from and all these sorts of things. So that was, so that was a real big, um, important thing for me. So, yeah. So, um, the main company that I use, um, they they're a social enterprise, so they give, um, that, you know, half of their profits back to um, farming regions, um, you know, to get like girls into education and, um, things like that. Um, or other, uh, or another company that are part of the ethical tea partnership, which guarantee fair wages for farmers, um, and, um, safety standards and all those sorts of things. Things that we take for granted as you know, employees in this country are not guaranteed in other countries. So, um, so it's all like a holistic, like whole cycle thing really.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:20:59

Thank you. And how easy was it to find teas and companies that fit that criteria? Because I'm, I'm guessing perhaps not as easy as if you were just happy to go to a wholesaler and buy whatever they had on, on the shelf.

Tas: 00:21:14

Yeah. It's yeah. It's, it's difficult. And also it's difficult in terms of like quantities and things like that because it's just me and, um, you know, I haven't. You know, warehouse, uh, warehouses of space to put, um, you know, lots of tea and things like that. So, yeah, so it was really difficult, but it was a case of, um, you know, speaking to, you know, doing a lot, so much research and, um, speaking to like the owners, not just, um, people who are trying to like salespeople and things like that who were just speak, feeding me like their spiel of things that they were saying. I was like, no, I need to speak to the people who are made these policies so I can, you know, speak, you know, guarantee that that's what they're doing. They're doing what they're saying. And you know, and I get updates from the companies that are using, the projects that they've done and, um, you know, things like that. So it's really, you know, it's really important that that's, um, that's, it's been upheld and what they're saying is true.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:22:11

Well, that's brilliant and it's great that you've managed to do sort of all of that research. It sounds like you've been so diligent. Um, so I guess it shows that while it might be harder, that it's definitely possible. And then. Yeah. And I, and then what, yeah, I think that's great. And so what I was going to ask then was, so are these, the companies that you started working with five years ago, are the, are they still in the whole, the same supplies you're working with now?

Tas: 00:22:37

Yeah. Yeah. We've got like a really good relationship and, um, You know, and it's, um, because we've been to, we've worked together for so long it's, um, you know, it's quite, uh, you know, it's quite like a symbiotic thing, I suppose, like, in terms of like we're helping each other out and all these sorts of stuff. So the, you know, the more, um, you know, the more orders that I get obviously the more money that I can give to them and then the more money that they can give to their projects and all these sorts of things. So it's um, so yeah, so it's really good.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:10

That's great. And that's one thing I didn't say very succinctly early, but I guess that was what I was trying to get at is that, I guess you spent a lot of time finding the right people to work with, but if you're still working together five years on, it's definitely worth putting in that groundwork right away. Because I think it can be so hard when you find a supplier, but they're not quite right. And then you're moving on and you're just constantly cycling through the process. Finding someone to work with. Whereas I guess now you've got a great relationship and yeah. It just makes everything so much easier doesn't it. So much more pleasant.

Tas: 00:23:39

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It's yeah. You know, I know when I ring them up, they know who I am and all these sorts of things. And um, so yeah, so it's, yeah, it is really important and I think having particularly now with, you know, with, with everything as it is, you know, with, um, you know, getting things from abroad and, um, you know, delays and all this sort of stuff. Like having like a good relationship with suppliers is so important and, um, you know, and, you know, being able to speak to somebody and, you know, and, um, you know, if you've got any concerns and things like that is really is vital really. And, you know, having that um, that connection is, you know, something that you need to just like, be mindful of as a business with who you're using.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:24:25

Absolutely. Now I'd love to just change subjects a little bit if that's okay. And talk about your craft kits. Um, I think probably good place to start is if you can describe for us some of the kits that you've got, because obviously I've been on your website and had a good look. Um, but we'll assume that people listening may not have done that yet. Hopefully everyone will go and take a look. So can you just explain, um, yeah. Describe some of your kits for you and then, and then we'll talk about them a bit more.

Tas: 00:24:50

Yeah, sure. Uh, so yeah, so like I said, like trying. Uh, when I, when I first started and had kits from other businesses, they didn't really, they didn't really like gel with me. And they were quite, um, they were quite, uh, like quite um twee and, and safe and things like that. And it wasn't really who I am as an individual and where I want the business in terms of both the tea and the crafting kits to like go and the brand and everything. So, um, I was at an event locally and, uh, met somebody who was an embroidery artist who was selling her finished items. And, um, like we started chatting and, um, and everything, and I said, oh, would you be interested in doing like bespoke designs for my business, for like, for kits that I was thinking of coming up with and she was like, yeah, that'd be great. And all this stuff, anyway, we started chatting. And, um, so I gave her a bit of a brief and said, you know, I wanted something, they were like quite edgy, but had a bit of like floral things on them. So when you looked at them from a glance, it was like, oh, that's a pretty design, but when you looked a bit closer, it was a bit like, Ooh, I wasn't expecting, uh, wasn't expecting that. So, um, so yeah, so we came up with these designs. I think we started off with, uh, six or seven to start off with, um, and the kits come with everything that you need. So the fabrics all printed, um, with the design and in colour, um, the hoop, the, the threads, the needles, all these sorts of all the, the things, but what I like to say to everybody is that it's not, um, really, uh, prescribed what you do with them. So you can do as little or as much as you want. And the design will still be, you know, you'll still have like your own bit of art that you can hang up or frame. Um, so it's not, you know, if you don't finish all of it, it would look like the half finished thing. You can just do the outlines. You could just do bits of the colors. Um, so it is really being accessible to everybody. So regardless of like your ability or if you've got, um, you know, issues with like dexterity or anything like that, you can still do things and still have this bit of artwork and have it in your house. And it will still be done regardless of if you do one stitch or, you know, all the stitches. So it's really. Like it's, I guess it's as much, um, as you can be. Um, uh, what do you call it? Like free hand with a design that's already been given to you, if that makes sense. So.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:27:31

Yeah. So I guess as designs printed and you just embroider it over or around, or however you choose to do it.

Tas: 00:27:38

Yeah. So, yeah, so it's yeah, so it's pretty much you you've got creative control, but the design is already there. So it's, so, you know, you don't have to do stitches that are, you know, some of them are really hard, um, or I find really difficult. So like French knots, they can be a bit annoying. So if you don't want to do French knots, you don't have to, you know, it's not like a design that says you must use this stitch for this, this, this, and this. So.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:27:59

Oh, that's really good. And so you had the designer to help you design them to your brief, but what about sort of sourcing all the bits that make up the kits? So the thread and the fabric, how have you managed to pull all of that together? Because to me it sounds like a massive job because I've got a few of these kits, not yours, but I've got a few cross-stitch kits before and you get quite a lot in a cross-stitch or embroidery set. So yeah. How have you gone about that?

Tas: 00:28:25

Yeah, that was also very difficult. um, again, it was, um, I was trying to be mindful of where I was getting the products from. Um, so I've a so all of the products come from businesses that are based in the UK. So, um, so it's all part of the, I guess, circular economy, I suppose. So it's all trying to, um, you know, every time you buy a kit from me, you are helping other businesses that are in the UK as well. So it's, um, so that was really important because again, it's, um, another relationship that you can have with them and, you know, and it might be, you know, it might be a big, um, company that you're dealing with, but you are still part, you know, you're still part of that and they're still a supplier to you and, um, you know, that that relationship is still really important as well. So, yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:29:18

That's great because I mean, there are so many different elements aren't there that make up a kit. And are you able to source them all from one place? So are you sort of getting everything from different places and having to physically pull the packs together?

Tas: 00:29:29

Yeah. Unfortunately at the minute it is different from different places, but it's to try and get like the best of everything from everywhere. Yeah. So, um, so. Which it's fine. It's like, once again, it is the same with everything. Once you start, it's really difficult trying to find it, but once you know what it is, it's very easy to, to reorder, you know, what, you've, what you're getting. And you've got like the list of colours of threads and things like that, so, you know which ones they are, um, and, uh, and that sort of stuff. So it's just, um, yeah. It's just the beginning bit is, is always more painful at the beginning when you just think, oh, I've got to really got to sit down and order these, but once you've done it, you know, um, you've got like a, you know, like a robust, like spreadsheet of what you need and, um, you know, where they're coming from. It's just a case of referring back to that the next time in ordering it again. So, yeah, it's just the initial part, um, of it really.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:30:21

That makes sense. And I guess some of the elements like hoops, for example, are going to be standard throughout whatever pack. You all exactly. So is it a really, I hope you don't mind me asking this, is it a big job actually physically putting the packs together?

Tas: 00:30:36

It is a little bit and it's, but once you get like, um, a bit of, um, uh, what do you call it? Like a production line. So I have like all the boxes that I make up, and then I put the tissue paper in each one, the instructions in each one. So it's just like, you're just doing that over and over again. And you just have some music on, in the background and you just kind of just like work your way through. Um, and I did ask, my husband if he wanted to help me and it got too complicated and the, so I just started shouting at him. So I asked him to leave. I was like.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:31:04

Yeah, it sounds like the sort of thing. Yeah. I think I would, if, if it were me, I would definitely be wanting to just, yeah. Get on with it on my own. Sometimes I would keep one it's helpful as you think it might be. I don't know why there there's part me that thinks all putting together that sort of kit must be really fun. Um, and I, I don't mean to sort of disregard all the hard work that goes into it, but is it fun? It sounds to me really fun, sort of creating a craft kit.

Tas: 00:31:27

Yeah. It it's nice that once you because like there's, uh, 10 things. Yeah. 10 things that I need to make sure I put in there. So it's like literally just going like, you know, like, you know, counting them all out and once you've got them all, it's like folding it all up, putting the tape on, putting the label on that's that, that can get stored. Then, then it's the same for the next one and all these yeah. And all this. It's annoying though, when you, when you're in the rhythm and then like you, you need something. So like, um, so I have like a bit of backing felt that I had in each one. And then if I'm, if I run out of the squares, I need to go and cut some more. It's like, I don't like it when I have I'm stopped midway and I'm like, oh, darn then. So I'm like, right, stop. Get the big table. I'll get the felt. I get the measuring tape out and things like that to measure it all. So to cut it. But yeah, but once you're in the rhythm and once you're in the. Um, uh, flow of doing it. It's very, it's like really quick and it's quite, it's just, um, you can just put the music on and there, you don't really have to think too much about it. You just, because you know, you've got 10 things to put in there. You just make sure you just pick the 10 things and that's it really.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:32:28

I do think it sounds really. And also I guess also the thought of like you, obviously you are creating these sets yourself as well. I just think that's just, I don't know why that just makes me feel like this is such a joyful thing to create. Like something that someone's going to take and make something with.

Tas: 00:32:43

Yeah, it's really nice. Especially when I get like photos from people who've sent what, what they've done or, um, you know, they'll or, or I'll get messages like saying, oh, I didn't, you know, I did only this bit, um, you know, I didn't get a chance to finish it. And I was like, oh no, but looks, if you that's all you want to do, then that is finished. So, um, you know, so it's really nice getting comments and, um, like messages from people about, you know, saying that they haven't, you know, um, picked up embroidery for so long or ever. And they've got this, you know, piece of, you know, work that they've effectively done on their own. And it's, you know, It's a very proud moment.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:33:21

Yeah, no, you should feel proud. And I think it's nice that, like you say, the designs are printed. They are accessible as well. So like anyone presumably could just pick one up and give it a go.

Tas: 00:33:31

Yeah. You'd then have to, yeah. The worst thing about having, having a design is the tracing out of it. You know, sticking it, the paper against the window and putting the fabric on the tar pool and the light box and all this and you know, and all this sort of stuff. And you just, sometimes you just want to get on with it. You just want to put the fabric in the hoop and just start sewing. But, um, particularly if you're a beginner as well, you don't want added stress of like doing things like that. And it can be a bit messy. And if it's, you know, if it's not, if the pen doesn't come out with like washing or things like that and it's leaks and all that. Yeah. I was like, no, don't want any of that for. To, to any of that drama to give to anybody else.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:34:07

Oh, so it sounds like you designed this to make it super easy.

Tas: 00:34:10

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It's basically what I would do. It's like, what would I, what would I want in a kit? I wouldn't want to trace. So then therefore, no tracing.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:34:20

I never even thought about tracing because I've never done embroidery. I've only ever done cross-stitch. Yeah. That's kind, I feel like that's my limit. Because I can count crosses so I feel like, do you know what I mean? I feel like I can count. So therefore I'm good, but the thought of actually having to do like real stitching I'm yeah. Maybe one day, I feel like it's maybe, maybe I should try one of your kits because actually, yeah, it sounds like I couldn't go far wrong.

Tas: 00:34:44

No, exactly. Yeah. Well, you know, my best friend she's she did. Um, well, and so like when I go to events, I have, um, them, I have like, uh, finished ones as like a display. And I purposely gave them to people that had never stitched before or hadn't stitched for a long time. So my best friend, she did one. Um, and she's never stitched embroidered before. Um, I gave one to a neighbour of mine. She hasn't stitched for, you know, like 20 years or something. And she did one and you know, it was really, and you know, her son did one. He's never, um, done embroidery before. And, and they're, you know, I have those as like my display ones and, you know, and it's, and so like I tell people and they were like, oh, you must have taken ages to do these. And I was saying, oh no, it's not actually me that because it's pointless me showing what I can do, because I've been embroidering for such a long time. But what, um, it's showing people that look the, you know, this is the range of people. They've done them and they're their varying ability. And look what they've produced. Look, and I've got these out on displayed because they're so nice. It's not like I've been given them and gone, oh my God, these are awful and then 'veI throw them away. But they're, you know, they're, they've done. You know, they're so they've picked it up so well, and they've done such an amazing job of, you know, we display them and they're focus on my website are the ones that they've done as well. So, um, so yeah, so anybody can do it and anyone can pick it up. Definitely.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:36:07

That's brilliant. And it's great to share that as well. Because as I say, it makes it so accessible to people and talking of the pictures on your website, we see what's really hard, obviously this is not visual. Um, but why don't you just so people can get a sense. Because I love looking at all, all of these on your website. So people just get a sense of what you offer. Um, why don't you describe for us just one or two of your favorite designs. Um, and don't worry about what you say. Because I can always put the explicit filter on if I need to if you're worried to put that.

Tas: 00:36:38

Okay. So yeah, so I've got a, I've got a couple, they all range, um, from, uh, in their, um, complexity, I suppose. Um, but one that I really like is, uh, that I've got one it's really, it's really easy. And it says like tea question mark, obviously. And, um, and it's got like little tea leaves around the outside, which I really love, which I really love stitching. I really like the one we did that we designed last year. Yeah. Last year was for, um, because every year I get asked about, um, in January, particularly about detox tea and things like that, and there's, spoiler alert, there's no such thing as a detox tea or detox coffee or anything like that. And so, um, so I do a big post about that on social media and it's my best performing post every year. And so, um, and so I did an embroidery kit about saying that nobody cares about your diet because there's so much particularly in the new year, there's so many, you know, there's so many people going on and on and on about their diets and things like that. And not saying that you're not, you know, not saying what people are doing things for, you know, health reasons or whatever is, is, should be, you know, not commended, but you know, that it's a lot of negativity, particularly for people who have got, you know, uh, issues around eating and, um, and things like that. And it's, you know, a lot of negativity about it and, you know, and. It's a big movement about pos you know, body positivity, but in January, no, no, you must hate yourself in January because we've had, we've had a nice Christmas, for example. So that one was quite, uh, well received, let's say. And, um, so, um, so that was one of my favorite ones as well, because it's quite, um, an important one to, to me and um, a lot of my friends have, uh, oh, customers, sorry that I've become friends now, that are, you know, that really like it and the, the message behind that one. So I really like that one. And then one of my most popular ones, isn't, uh, one of the, the reason why it's so accessible is that my love is loved one and my little rainbow and things like that. Everyone. Yeah, that always seems to sell out, which is really nice. So a lot of people have got that one and have hung it up and things like that. And so that's really nice too. So, so yeah, so those are my favourite, my favourite ones. I love them all, but those are my favorite ones.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:38:56

Oh, thank you for that, because I just wanted you to explain them. So people got a bit of a sense of what they are. Because when I looked, I thought, well, they're not your traditional embroidery kits that. Think of, like you said, because I, yeah. You think of embroidery, you think of flowers and beds and butterflies and yours are really pretty, but they were a little bit edgy aswell. Well, so that's what I wanted to try and convey. And hopefully people go to your, so do let us know your website address. Now this is a good time to actually tell people your websites. They can go and have a look for themselves.

Tas: 00:39:23

Oh yes. Yeah. So you can, uh, so yeah, so, um, you can buy all my products on and craft kids off my website, which is, uh, verycraftea.co.uk.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:39:35

Amazing. Thank you. And I'll link that up in show notes as well, but I thought that, it's quite good to give it a mention here as well. Um, and yeah, and also link to your social media accounts and everything else. So the final question I have for you, Tas, if that's okay, is, is what I ask everyone is what would your number one piece of advice be for other product creators?

Tas: 00:39:55

Oh, gosh, uh, gosh, a really good question.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:39:59

That's why I leave it till the end, because it's tricky.

Tas: 00:40:01

Yeah. Yeah. Into false sense of security being, oh yeah, these are not hard questions. Um, I really, oh I think the main thing is is getting your numbers right. I can't stress this enough about everything. So I have this spreadsheet and it's, I don't know, I think it's about 27 columns long or something like that. And it talks and it goes through every single bit of cost that it takes for me to produce either a bag of tea to sell or a craft kit to sell. Um, and it talks about bags, labels, uh, processing costs on the website. Uh, so, you know, so like, um, so my, my website is through Shopify, so it will, um, the costs that Shopify take per sale, postage, how much, um, you know, PayPal takes all these sorts of things and it all works and I've done every single point and then work out how much it costs to sell that before I end up with a price, I didn't do that for about two and a half. Uh, no, probably longer than that. Probably three years. I hadn't had that. And I worked out that I was selling things cheaper than it was costing me to, to make it, which is not really a good thing when you, when you're in a business. So, um, so, um, so yeah, so if I could start again, that would definitely be it because not one, I guess it would is obviously you don't get into the thing that I was that you're not selling things cheaper than what you, your it's costing you to get and make. Um, two, it you'll be able to build in quite a nice, uh, you know, margin or profit for you as well. But also like three years, like you can build in potential uplifts and costs that you, that you might incur from like, uh, you know, like, you know, over the pandemic, like nobody could get cardboard boxes and car boxes that I was buying for 30p, when it went up to like a pound 50 each. And it was, you know, all these sorts of things and it was, you can take a little bit of the hit of that for a small amount of time, but not if it was for, you know, forever. So it's, you can work out, you can change, you know, small amount of figures, you know, your figures in this, you know, in your spreadsheet to say, you know, if it did go up a thousand percent, how much is that going to affect the, you know, what I end up getting. Or, you know, will I have to pass that cost onto the consumer and how, if I do, how do I, you know, explain that to them? How do I mitigate that if I can, or all these sorts of things. So, yes, my one piece of advice would be to make sure your numbers are correct, because it will end, it will save so much heartache and headache later on when you have to keep upping your prices um, because you've not factored that in until the beginning.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:42:50

That's such good advice. Thank you. Especially like your spreadsheet, because I think it's going to be so easy to forget some of those little costs, like the PayPal fees. Um, I've definitely in the beginning when I was selling my products, I was definitely similar. You know, I had the big cost worked out, you know, the production and the shipping and the storage, but then those little things like, yeah, like the, like the PayPal fee is a great example. It's not a massive amount of money, but it all just adds up and yeah. So I think thinking of absolutely everything is really, really smart because yeah, that must have been horrible to realize that, oh, actually I am, I'm selling, these are lost, but good for you for like working it out though, because I think it could have been also easy to just kept on going. I can, especially because numbers, um, If it's not something you are sort of, you feel like you're good at, or you enjoy it can be so easy to just kind of put your head in the sand and definitely just hope for the best.

Tas: 00:43:52

Yeah, definitely. Even, you know, even like little things, um, you know, like stickers, if you put a sticker on something that costs money, if you, you know, even if it costs you like 3p that still will cost to you as a business. It's, you know, I've really gone to like the nth degree because I was thinking, you know, I always, I thought as soon as I worked out that if something did happen and everything went up, what would that affect. You know, because I don't want to increase my prices if I can help it for my consumers because it's, you know, times, you know, times are difficult for everybody at the minute. And um, so it's trying to mitigate these sorts of things like, you know, can I, you know, if I don't put a sticker that says my lay, my business on, on the box, is that on the outside, is that really going to make a difference to the person who ends up receiving it? Probably not, but that will save the money. You know, over X amount of packages that are being sent out, but, um, you know, those sorts of things. It's just looking at what you, what you are doing. And it's not a freebee, I suppose. To, to just think, oh, you know, this little bit of, you know, this, you know, this sticker, this tissue paper, it's not free. It isn't free for you to, to put in because you've had to buy it. So it's all the little things that just need added that need costing in and looking at. So, um, so yeah, so, you know, so you know exactly what it is and you know how much it is and you're more comfortable then knowing. Um, you know, more confident in what you're selling and confident in your price. If somebody says to you, oh, oh, that's really expensive. You can say to them, well, I, this is what you get included in, in, you know, in a, in a craft kit, or this is what you are paying for in the tea, as well as, you know, the fact it's consciously sourced, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all those sorts of things.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:45:38

That's really good. Thank you. And I also think that as you've explained, it's great to know your costs in that detail, because should something happen like the cost of your box, this gets more expensive, then you can make a really informed decision. Do I pass it onto the consumer or can I cut costs somewhere else? And as you say, if you've got all those cost detailed, you could go, well, the box price has gone up, but could I buy cheaper tissue paper or could I not put a sticker on? Or could I do, I guess it makes it much more actionable to kind of think about, okay, how, you know, how do I tackle this? Or do I just follow up the additional cost or whatever, but at least if you've got that degree of detail, you're making a really informed decision rather than just let things happen to you.

Tas: 00:46:20

Yeah. Yeah. You've got more con yeah, it is about having control. Because when, when things go up. And you haven't got it all written down and you don't know where it's all and you don't know how it affects everything. You feel like you've flo because you don't, you feel ou tof control. But when you find out something is going up and you've got it written down, you go, okay, what, well, how will that affect me by this going up by this much of minute amount of money and you can do, and you can play about the figures for, you know, just in case things as well. So it, it is all about having control and it's, you know, and it is horrible and it is boring and it's not as fun as designing stuff and making things and stuff, but it's, it's the fun, it's such a fundamental part for you to be able to do all the fun stuff that it needs doing. And that's, you know, I can't stress that I can't stress that enough, that, you know, everyone should really focus on doing that. If they've not already been doing.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:47:10

Yeah, I love this. I'm absolutely sold. And I agree. I think anyone who isn't doing this already, I think it might be quite a painful thing possibly to do, but I guess once you have it, it get, like you say, it gives you so much control. You can make really informed decisions. So I definitely think it's worth the sort of, couple of hours of pain that it might take to actually get it done, but I'm so my, my accountant would love you. I'm so impressed you've everything down to that detail. Um, because it's yeah, I think it's exactly the level of detail you, you need when, when it's your business.

Tas: 00:47:46

Yeah. Oh yeah, definitely.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:47:49

Well, thank you so much for sharing that, that, that's definitely one of the key takeaways in this episode for me. I think that's a brilliant sort of actionable piece of advice. People can just go away and do that if they're not already, um, I'm sure lots of people are, but if you're not, I think that's a good reminder to perhaps take a look and yeah. Thank you for everything that you've shared. I've loved talking to you. And I really hope people go to your website, take a look at your tea, take a look at your crafts kit. And as I say, the link will be in the show notes of this episode to make that really easy.

Tas: 00:48:19

No. Great. No, thank you so much for inviting me. I've had, yeah, it's been really nice chatting and it's, um, it's nice to, you know, look back, you know, think back about, you know, where I've started to where it is. And, and I hope that people who, who are in a similar position or thinking of starting or growing their business, this has been helpful to them.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:48:37

Oh, deffinitely.

Tas: 00:48:38

Always happy to, yeah. Always happy to chat. If anyone wants to drop a message about, um, about business or any or anything or about tea or anything like that, I'm always happy to chat.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:48:50

Oh, amazing. Thank you so much Tas.

Tas: 00:48:53

No, thank you very much. Thank you so much for listening right to the end of this episode, do remember that you can get the full back catalogues and lots of free resources on my website, vickiweinberg.com. Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful. Thank you again and see you next week.