Running multiple businesses, plus some copywriting tips! – with Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:01

Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea to Life podcast. This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products, or if you'd like to create your own product to sell. I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly, practical advice, as well as inspirational stories from small businesses. Let's get started. Hi, today on the podcast, I'm talking to Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence. Melissa is a multi passionate creative and she splits her time between a copywriting day job, running her homeware brand and her most recent venture, an upcycling furniture studio where Melissa gives homeware a new lease of life and also hosts creative workshops. So as you can see, Melissa does a lot of things, um, and she spoke about all of them with me today. So I'm so excited to share with you, um, all the different businesses that she runs, how she manages, um, doing so many things or not, as the case might be. Um, I absolutely love how candid and open Melissa was about, um, how she makes things work and how sometimes things don't work. She also gave some really good copywriting tips of products, businesses. As I mentioned, um, Melissa's day job is as a copywriter, and she has some great advice about how to write really compelling product pages for your products, particularly when you're selling online. Um, so definitely, definitely tune in for this whole conversation with Melissa. I think you're really going to enjoy it. Hi, Melissa. Thank you so much for being here.

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:01:30

Thank you for having me.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:31

Oh, you're welcome. Can we start with you? Please give an introduction to yourself, your businesses, plural, and what you sell and what you do.

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:01:39

Okay. So I am Melissa. Um, I have been a copywriter for 13 years now. So I started quite early while I was still at university. Um, because my teaching plans had sort of gone out of the window once I actually got into a classroom and realized I wasn't really that keen, but I loved the subject, I loved English that I was studying, and I also had a bit of a business bug, so I really felt that once I discovered copywriting in the world of marketing, that that really it was going to be a good fit for me. So from then, that's pretty much all the work I pursued. But I also had a little bit of an artsy, creative side to me that I feel like at the time when I was like early 20s, I didn't necessarily have the confidence to pursue. Um, but then sort of mid twenties, I thought, okay, well, I've worked in branding and marketing for long enough. I've seen the inside of this now. I actually feel like I could give it a go. So I launched Honey Bee Home, which is my homeware brand in 2017. And then I started to upcycle furniture a few years after that. So I think I've been doing that since about 2020.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:02:50

Oh, brilliant. Thank you. Thank you for introducing all of that. Um, so you have quite a lot going on Melissa, and I know you started businesses at various times. Um, how, and I know this is a big question, but how do you manage, um, doing all of these things?

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:03:06

You know, sometimes I don't. And, um, that's one thing I've had to learn is that I'm only one person whose brain has many tabs open at once. Um, so for me, the way I've tried to get on top of that and manage that is by sometimes hiring help, not all of the time. So thank goodness for freelancers because they honestly, they keep the world turning, I feel. Um, so occasionally when we're very, very busy, I will have, um, someone who will do the graphic design for me, for the socials. Um, and for things like our look books and the little packs that go out to the press and that sort of thing. I'll have assistance with that. Um, and I did have a part time social media manager at one point in time. Um, I haven't replaced her just yet because I'd started to move in a different direction with the brand. I thought I can't bring someone else into this chaos until I figured out what I'm doing. Um, so yeah. It really is just knowing that you can do it all, just not all at once. And I think that's a very tough lesson I've had to learn actually, especially finding out that I probably have undiagnosed ADHD, which made a lot of sense once I figured out what it was in, in sense of like how my brain works and how I have all the ideas I want to do all of the things at once. Um, so yeah, I, I get help when I can. And, um, just try to stay on top of everything. Batching content I found is the most useful. I don't always do it, but when I do, I thank, I thank myself for being organized.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:04:43

Well, thank you for being so honest about that because it is, it's really easy to look at someone who's doing a lot and go, how are they doing it all? Um, so thank you for being so honest about the fact that one is that you're not always doing it all. Because I think for anyone who's got more than one thing on the go, whether that's like more than one business or whether that's a business and another job or family or whatever the things are. Often you do feel like you're dropping a couple of balls, but not everyone is open to sort of saying that. So I think that's really useful and reassuring for people to hear that it is possible to do all of the things. And it actually doesn't matter whether you're doing all of the things all of the time or whether you're getting help or however you're doing it. Because it sounds like you're passionate about all three of your businesses. So I guess the main thing is that you're getting to do them all.

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:05:27

Yeah, definitely. And I feel enormously sort of privileged to be someone who has a lot of creative ideas. And so I feel like that passion kind of comes from a little bit of an urgency to actually pursue them and not see anything go to waste.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:44

Yeah, that makes sense. Let's talk about all of your businesses in turn, if that's okay. So you mentioned that you started out as a copywriter and, um, I hope you don't mind, but since I have you on the podcast, I would love to know if you have any tips for specifically for product businesses. So when you're writing about your products or product pages, um, yeah. And again, I know that's a big question, so we can break that down, but, um, yeah. What would your advice be, Melissa?

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:06:10

No, absolutely. Um, my, a lot of my experience actually came from e commerce. So I used to work for a company who would do the copywriting and the photography and imagery for some very large household names. So once I'd seen the inside of the way that that business ran, it helped me not only in turning out copy very quickly, but also having a system for doing so. So I'm happy to share that because I really feel like it helps. If you have a product business, first of all, the product page needs to have as much information as possible. You can never give someone too much information because I, you would be shocked at the amount of like large brands who miss off things like measurements, who won't photograph something from more than one angle. So just as much info as you can give someone, your product page actually is very powerful. Um, I think sometimes we get very caught up on like beautiful imagery or having a fabulous um, homepage, but actually those product pages will work really hard for you if you load in as much information as you can. Um, and for something like search engine optimization, which is where customers will find you on Google, the more informative a landing page is and a product page, the better chance you have of ranking and of people finding what they were looking for. So, you know, um, a conversational tone is brilliant with e commerce. Um, you know, we don't have that face to face advantage that you would have with chatting with the shopkeeper. So that is your chance to have your sort of chat with your customer. That may be their first encounter with your brand, but I actually have a system. Um, so I sort of write product description by sort of bronze, silver, gold, and so bronze will be the bare basics. So, you know, this is a chair. It's red, it has four legs, it has a back, it has no arms, and that may be enough. Someone who's very functional may just come to your site and go, yep, that's exactly what I need, and disappear. And they'll buy it and that's your transaction done. Um, silver will be a little bit more descriptive. So, you know, you may mention, you know, functions best in the office, will look great in the corner of your lounge, that sort of thing. But then a gold or even a platinum description will really sell the lifestyle. It's like, this is the chair of your dreams. This is where you're going to sit and think. This is where you'll wind down after a long day at work, you know. So you really, you consider their lifestyle, you consider the kind of person who will be shopping with you. I think that is my next tip is to really know your customer or to really know who you would like your dream customer to be. Really get into their life, you know, where do they work? How do they spend their income? What kind of income do they have? You know, what are their priorities? What are your products going to bring into their life? Um, and then when you're talking and when you're communicating, have that person, that avatar, that customer profile in mind, and sort of always just talk as though it's just you and them, just you and your ideal customer and not everybody else.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:09:16

That's so helpful. Thank you. And I particularly liked what you said about having all the information needed on the product page. Because my pet peeve, I guess as a customer is when I go to look at something and I'm like, I don't know if this is what I want because I've heard as a mentioned on, on there or the fab or whatever it is, or it doesn't say what sort of plug it, all of these small things. I feel like, um, a product page really has to answer all of the like reasonable questions that a person might ask you.

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:09:45

Yeah, I agree. And it's also sort of removing obstacles for customers. What problems might they have? So. When you write a page or when you've put something together on your site, look at it from your customer's perspective. What problem might they run into? What question have you not answered? What might they come to you and ask? And just remove that obstacle so it makes the whole process for them, that whole journey with you much smoother.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:10:11

Well, thank you. And do you have any specific advice? And, um, I realize I'm dropping this question on you, but, um, so what, as you said, so this is also e commerce and lots of people only sell their products online now, and some products are really hard to sell online. I'm thinking, for example, anything with a scent, like a candle where you are, let's be honest, at a bit of a disadvantage that someone can't pick it up and smell it. Or, um, in my example, I used to sell baby products. I sold baby towels and they were really soft and thick, but it was really hard to convey that in a written description. Do you have any advice for someone who's selling a product where it's harder to describe it functionally, if that makes sense?

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:10:57

Yeah, that does make sense. And that's a problem that I have myself, um, selling candles and fragrance and diffusers. So I really think, again, it's talking about it in the context of their lifestyle. So, you know, people will maybe have one kind of scent in their kitchen, you know, that'll be great for when they're cooking and what have you, and then they'll have one in their bedroom, that's maybe like a more woody scent that helps them wind down or, you know, lavender for relaxation. So for me, it's describing it in context. So with things like, say, for example, you had um, lavender for, you know, uh, those pillow sprays that people love, you know, so talking about it in the context that it will be used instead of, well, this is nice. They're going to look at your product and go, okay, but why? So there's always the, but why to ask yourself and also comparing it to things that they may be familiar with. So if I had a candle that maybe was an unusual scent combination, if I could compare it to another sense. So if I said, well, if you love vanilla, you're going to love Oud. If you love, you know, a fresh scent, then you're going to love this citrus scent. Then that may help them to place it in like a context that they are familiar with. And I think that makes it a little bit easier.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:12:14

Thank you. I think that's really helpful. And I like what you said about how it fits in people's lives as well, because I think that really, I think that really helps if someone can say, okay, this is how I might use this. Um, I think that kind of makes it a bit more persuasive than just the features of a product. I think if you can get an idea of the benefits and how it might fit into your life, that's a, for me anyway, as a customer, I know that I'm much more compelled to buy something if I can see how I might use it.

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:12:44

Yeah. I agree. Um, you know, for things like gifting as well. I love when it gets split into the categories of like, well, this is a gift for the person who has everything. This is a gift for what he loves, thrills and adventures. This is, you know, for wellness and relaxation. So always just considering its purpose. And like you said, the benefits of features is brilliant because straight away you've answered questions for them straight away. They're going to be able to consider where this will fit in.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:13:14

That's really helpful. Thank you. And let's talk a little bit about your own products, Melissa. So you mentioned that you had a love for design and that's what inspired you to set up Honeybee Homes. So when, um, remind us when that was and talk a little bit about how you went about that. So from having the idea of you'd like to do something in e commerce, um, how exactly did the business get started?

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:13:38

It, it was a little bit of a long journey, um, probably longer than it needed to be. So way back in 2013, I was in a charity shop and this was sort of when upcycling and, um, giving like furniture and homeware a new lease of life was really taking off. Um, and I bought a table and I thought, I am going to paint this and I'm going to sell it. Uh, lots of other people are doing it, I could do that. But then I quickly ran into a few problems. So I didn't have a space to work from. So it would make upcycling the pieces a little bit tricky. Um, I thought, well, you know, I'm not going, I'm not going to necessarily set up a shop. I don't feel like I have the sort of know how to do that right now. There has to be something ready to go alongside it. So that was where the idea for Honey Bee Home came from, because the, ready to go, sort of bought in curated products were going to sit alongside my upcycled furniture. And I thought, well, that's nice and easy because if someone came across my site and all they wanted was a candle holder and not an upcycled side table, then they can have the candle holder and go. So the idea of it being a boutique really took off in my head and I was like, yeah, this is great. I'll have a nice curated selection of products for people and you know, it'll be the nice finishing touches for their home and for their living space. And I focused on two areas of the house to begin with. So, um, living spaces that were sort of communal and the bedroom, because you will find a lot of crossover in terms of things like soft furnishings, candle holders, um, you know, that sort of thing, throws. And so I was like, well, that's nice and easy. I'll focus on those two spaces. So honing in on the idea, it started to sort of bring itself to life a little bit and the upcycled furniture idea, I kind of pushed to the side. Um, I found, I think it was Autumn Fair. Um, the big trade show that happens at the NEC on, I think it's an interior blogger who I was following and she visited and I thought, oh, that looks really good. That looks like it could help to feed my idea that I've now been clinging on to at this point for, I think, two or three years. So I went along to the show, I found all these amazing suppliers and designers and I just thought, you know, I need to go for this. So I pulled together some funding. I've sort of bought the first range, um, had it photographed by a photographer that I know who did really lovely e commerce photography and then sort of ran with the idea from there. Did a small launch campaign and just helped kind of ask people to help me spread the word. And that was it. I thought, you know, I've seen how brands run on a large scale. I can definitely make it work as a small independent. Let's give it a go. And that's kind of what happened from there. So I would just buy in, um, really beautiful homeware and pieces that I thought went really well together as well. I, I really wanted customers to come to Honeybee home and know what they were getting and it wasn't going to be random and, you know, um, anything that resembled a jumble sale. Um, I really wanted it to be like a curated, um, experience experience. And that's what it became. It's evolved over time. So. I went from just homeware to introducing gift as well. That really helped because it meant I could diversify the product offering a little bit. Um, and then, yeah, from there it's kind of taken on its own life in terms of the look and feel. I, for some reason, had deviated from what I liked in terms of homeware, which is very sort of, I love leopard print. I'll put leopard print on pretty much anything, anywhere. Um, and I just remember thinking, oh, that's not really what people like. I think at that time, the industrial kind of vibe was really big then. So sort of, um, a lot of black metal and, um, yeah, that kind of industrial sort of look and very plain colors. And over time, especially, I think maybe the start of last year, I looked and just thought this isn't, this isn't a brand I would shop with anymore. And there are some people who do and they love it, but I felt like it was a good time to really lean into what I, what I liked and it's worked. People love the sort of maximalist, bold colours, clashing patterns. And so we've, we started going through a little bit of a brand transformation over the last few months where the look and feel is changing sort of what I, and I like the direction that we're headed in now.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:27

Well, that's really exciting. And I think you're right. When you look at your site, you can, everything does kind of fit. So do you have like really set criteria for the products that you want to sell?

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:18:40

Um, there isn't a strict set of criteria. I feel like I've learned a few things that helped me to make decisions now. So I know what just does not sell. So things that I was really enthusiastic about, super keen, very excited, and my customers just weren't. So, uh, for a time we did have a, quite a large range of gift, um, not gift, uh, greetings cards, and it just didn't take off, uh, during the lockdown period it did really well because we offered a service where people would write their message, we would send the card for them and that was, you know, helping people to keep in touch with each other. But after that, I think I got a little bit too excited and I designed a few cards and I thought, okay, well, this is our moment, you know, we're going to break into stationery and, and greeting cards and it just didn't happen. And, um, yeah, I just accepted that. And so I won't stock things that I know don't sell. So we don't stock a lot of lamps that plug in, because one of my promises to my customers was that it would be a lot of renter friendly product and so there are so many amazing battery operated lights out there and so my promise is to always have a range of battery operated lighting. So that's one thing I really stick to. We are sort of moving away from a lot of neutrals and sort of leaning into that sort of dark and more maximalist vibe. I love, um, really rich colours. And so then it's not a strict criteria now, but I definitely feel as though I shop with a few things in mind. We don't stock faux plants because they don't sell, but they will absolutely fly off of the websites. And so, um, yeah, it's using the data, which is, I'm not a data person at all, but I worked with a retail coach and she helped me to use the data that I have to inform decisions moving forward.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:20:40

That's really interesting. Thank you. And I think it makes total sense what you're saying, that because you've been running for years now, you have that experience, you know, what your customers will and won't buy. And it's also really interesting what you were saying about the plants that, you know, there are people buying them from other websites, but not you, which I guess is all about knowing your customer. So would you say that it's getting easier the longer you're going to kind of gauge what your customers are looking for and what's likely to sell?

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:21:11

I think so, definitely. And one thing that I found really interesting is that the customer I thought I was aiming for is not who my customer has turned out to be. So I am a millennial. Um, and so the site that I had put together and the look and feel and the way that I was buying, was buying in, was aimed towards, like, millennials who were renting, maybe saving for their first property, hence the battery operated lighting, that sort of thing. And then what I found over time was that our demographic was actually split 50 50, so there are people, a lot of people my age, um, and who are in my sort of similar living situation, who buy from Honeybee Home, but then there are also a lot of customers, I would say the majority, actually, maybe more than 50 50, who are around, say, my mum's age, um, and her sisters, and they're, uh, you know, 50s ish, and they've got a little bit more disposable income, and their, their lifestyle is different, and they buy in a different way, they want different information, um, they have different buying habits. I'll see, you know, more frequent visits, um, but they'll maybe spend more at once. They may spend longer making a decision, but when they do, they're very set. And so looking at buyer behaviour as well has been very interesting and figuring out who our customer is as well.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:22:37

And how do you get all that information about your customers?

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:22:41

some, sometimes it's been in person events. Um, so very occasionally I'll do sort of a Christmas market sort of thing or, um, corporate events as well, where they'll bring me into uh, sort of set up a pop up for their, um, their employees and I just see like who gravitates towards when you be, um, and sometimes I'll look at the information in the back end of Shopify if, um, if, if it has that available to show me, but yeah, a lot of the time it's been from, uh, in person interactions and, um, yeah, how it's spread word of mouth as well, just like, oh, I know so and so, and oh, you know, my mum shops with you. And, um, yeah, that's where the info comes from, mainly. So our analytics and then our in person interactions.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:31

That's really interesting. Thank you. And I was, because I was wondering if you were going to tell me you had some like crazy analytics tool that could give you all this data. And I was thinking, wow, that's amazing. But it's actually sounds to me, better, that you actually know your customers and you get to talk to them because that's the best way, I guess, of figuring out who they are. And I mean, I know analytics have their place, but actually knowing who's buying from you, I think is really useful.

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:23:56

Definitely, and I love those. It's only a few and far between, but I love those occasions where I do get to meet customers and I, I get to see how they interact with the products as well. So, you know, they can pick up the candle and hold it in the air and see what it smells like. And, you know, is this going to look nice on my sideboard and yeah, it's just really interesting. The sort of questions that people ask you about products in person as well.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:24:19

And so did you, um, so just coming back to when you started. Did you source your first products from Autumn Fair? Is that where you found the stockists originally?

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:24:28

Yes, that's right. And so it was brilliant for me because I actually got to see, um, you know, sometimes it's the person who designed the products I was looking at, which is great. Um, but that show in particular, just having a lot of the suppliers all in one place, I'd started to sort of curate the collection in my head as I was walking around because I'd go to one supplier and then find something in another supplier and so the range really started to pull itself together from being able to see everything in one place.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:24:59

So you mentioned that you originally, Melissa, you were sourcing most of your products in person. Are you still doing that now?

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:25:06

Yes. So I get to as many trade shows as I can because I really do love those, um, in person event, just in the sense that I can see what something looks like, maybe from their catalogue in front of me. Also, a lot of those shows, they will showcase their newest collections at the show. And so, you may have exclusive access to what it looks like. And very occasionally, there will be a show discount as well, which I make use of sometimes. Um, And as much as I like to look online, I do find that going to the shows and, you know, there'll be a talk as well sometimes, and so, from an educational perspective, I'm always learning as like a brand owner and as a buyer, um, and, you know, a lot of these suppliers will have like a really beautiful showroom that you can visit. And so I make use of showroom appointments as well, where you get that one to one interaction with their, with their sales team. You can ask all of the questions and, you know, spend time, just, I love just mooching. I love walking around and just having a look at things. So, um, I'll sort of have set dates in my calendar that I'll make with suppliers and I'll go and I'll have a look at the things in, in person, because, you know, it may change your mind about a product you weren't that sure about. It may, you may spot something there that you didn't see online. Um, so I really like to do a mix of both. If I'm sort of just topping up a range and I know what I'm getting, then I can make an order quite easily. But if I'm really like having a good think about what will be coming up in the next few months, I do like to go in person when I can.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:26:43

That makes a lot of sense. I was actually at a trade show in London last week. And I also like going to trade shows because you get to meet people, you get to speak to them. Like you said, seeing the product face to face, there's nothing, you know, that's, you can't compare that to the experience online. And it's also really interesting to see what sort of trends are coming through and things like that, because you start to spot that. I didn't know whether it's bright colours or it's gifting or whatever it is. You can sort of see what's popular at the time.

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:27:11

Yeah, that's it for sure. Like, I saw so many toadstools at the last show that I went to because they're just so trendy right now and people are so into them and you just, sometimes you just would never know unless you, you know, once you're walking around and you, you spot so many of one thing. And over the years, you know, I've started to get to know, um, suppliers and I feel like having a good relationship with them is so important. You know, there'll be when I have run out of a product and I'm very stuck and I don't know when it's coming back in. Just being able to pick up the phone and have the name of the person, um, and to know who you want to speak with. Um, you know, just those having good relationships like that makes running the business so much smoother. Um, you may need to pull in a favour here and there, you know, just they're really important for things like, if we really get into the business side of things like cashflow and just, you know, minimum order quantities, having an actual relationship with someone and being able to ask them. And, you know, if that, you know, once it's built on trust, you, you have a much smoother experience as a business owner, but these are things that you will only learn over time. So you know, start sooner than I did.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:28:25

That makes a lot of sense. And while I definitely think there's a place for sourcing products online, I think if you are in a position where you can do it face to face, it really helps. Like you say, it's like it just builds in relationships and particularly when you run on your own business, and if you work on your own, it's just nice to have relationships with, with real people rather than doing everything virtually.

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:28:48

And, and those shows are, um, such a nice experience and a good chance to catch up with other people in the industry as well. So the retail coach that I worked with, I've then seen at other trade shows and we've just, you know, had a wander around and grabbed a coffee and running a small business can be quite lonely. Um, you know, day to day when it's just you and your social media schedule and you know, the orders coming in, it can feel a little bit lonely sometimes. And so, so much effort goes into those shows. It's nice to sort of go along and be able to catch up with some familiar faces and trade stories and, you know, see who's new on the scene. And, you know, there's just a, a nice sort of energy to it. And I, I enjoyed those days out of the studio.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:29:32

Yeah. It's always nice to just get out and go somewhere different for sure. Um, so let's talk a little bit now about your upcycling business. So I know that is up on where you mentioned that you obviously, that was the plan, right? In 2013, I think you said, and obviously honeybee home came first. So, but now you are. I was about to say up and up cycling. That sounds silly, but you know what I mean, that business is up and running. Is that right?

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:29:56

It is. That is right. So it was, I think 2020 when I sold my first piece online. So this was a customer who had come to me via Etsy and not just, uh, family member or a friend. Um, this was my first, like, what I thought was a legit sale. I was like, right, this is so exciting. So I heard it, that coaching notification that you get. And I looked and I was like, Tennessee. Oh, that's a lot of postage. And so another thing I've had to learn is just like overcoming logistics problems. But I sold my first table on Etsy. Um, just over three years ago and she left me a five star review and the whole experience is really lovely but I had wanted to do the furniture upcycling for a very long time like I said. And I, I sort of do regret procrastinating as much as I did, because I feel like well you know could I be streaks ahead now but um so many other things have filled that time and that space in between. I really feel like I've sort of come full circle and actually this version of me is much more knowledgeable and probably have you know, manage to not make some of the mistakes, mistakes I would have made if I'd started, uh, when I wanted to. So yeah, I have my own website and then I sell on various of the platforms. Um, because you just don't know where people are going to find you with the furniture upcycling because it is, I find, a much more personal experience where someone commissions you, say they're handing over, you know, an heirloom, you know, a cabinet that's been in their family for decades and meant a lot to them, for them to hand that over to you and for you to be able to assist them in like bringing out, you know, a new style or, or putting a new design on it is, it's a very personal experience and so, I started to do more of that work and then I found a lovely unit to work from, which just so happens to be over the road from my existing unit and so I took that as a sign to really go for it. And then, yeah, from there I've really just fleshed out ideas for the actual business. So it's not just an upcycling studio. It's also where I run creative workshops. And so the idea, this is sort of the new baby in terms of business. But this studio I feel has massive potential to be a real hive of, of creativity and activity, not just for me, but for others.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:32:32

That's really exciting. And yeah, and one more thing for you to fit in somehow as well. That is really interesting. And I was a bit confused of the upcycling because I thought maybe you can put me wrong, maybe you are doing this as well. So I thought you were buying pieces or sourcing pieces and upcycling them and selling them on. Are you doing that as well as taking on commissions as well?

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:32:55

That's right. Yeah. So, um, in the sort of upcycling community and industry, those are the two most common ways that people will have their work out there. So they will be feeling creative themselves and go, well, I see this nest of tables and I want it to become, you know, this design and I want it to be three different colours. And, you know, they'll do it in sort of their style. And then I feel that's where the commission work will follow because a customer will find you, they will like your particular style, um, and how you do things and then sort of approach you from there. But yeah, that it sort of the, the main bulk of the work is that, I will source p pieces that I just have spotted somewhere or seen in maybe an antique barn or a house clearance and just thought I have to have that and I'll figure out the design later. I have to have that piece. And so, you know, it's brilliant. You're, you're saving things from landfill, you know, really well-made furniture is being given a new lease of life. And as much as places like Ikea are very convenient and, you know, very cost effective as well, and I feel like it definitely has its place. I feel like with furniture we are and have been sort of heading in the same direction as fast fashion, in that people go, oh, well, I'll just buy that and then I'll put it on the side of the street when I'm moving because it's not coming to my new house. I've got a nice new house now. I don't need that, that Ikea unit. If we took the time to invest in existing pieces that are really well made that are going to last for, you know, centuries in, in many cases, and sort of add, I think the objective really with the upcycling is to give people another perspective and to, to give that sort of, you know, old furniture a chance and, you know, see its potential because a lot of the time, you know, it's really solid and very functional as well. Very easy to change the function of furniture, you know, maybe you don't want a telephone table, but maybe you do want somewhere to keep your records or, you know, um, so I feel like with with the upcycling that that is the objective. A lot of the time is to sort of put your spin on something that already exists.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:35:08

I think you're right as well, that it's, it's nice to have that sustainability aspect of things, not just going to landfill, going to the tip or whatever it is, because yeah, it's, and like you said, you do see this for fashion as well. So many things just ending up in the bin that actually could be reused and reused again. Um, just maybe needs a bit of updating or a bit of care. Um, yeah, I do think it's really nice and I do think upcycling hopefully will start to grow as well. And is it something that in your studio you're thinking of teaching other people how to do as well? I'm just curious.

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:35:42

Well, I feel, I feel like it may be my imposter syndrome speaking. Um, where I say, oh, you know, I don't really feel like I'm in a position to teach others. Um, that's not necessarily true. I do feel like I have a lot to share and impart. Um, so the, with the new studio, I want, with it, wanting to be sort of a hive of activity, um, I am running creative workshops. So they're not furniture upcycling workshops, but it's other types of craft and creativity where I really feel like it's going to be a nice space for people to sort of come and just switch off for a couple of hours, maybe bring a couple of friends and just do something mindful and to do and to have something at the end. Where, you know, I feel like a lot of us revert back to what made us happy as children and, you know, just being outside and reading and being mindful and being creative and so I really just want our workshops to be somewhere that people can come along and just you know, switch off for a little bit and just leave feeling uplifted and, you know, like they've done something worthwhile for a couple of hours, but without that pressure to be productive and to, you know, always be busy, busy, busy. Um, so at the moment we've got sort of wreath making workshops that will be coming up towards the end of the year and Christmas craft and that sort of thing. And so um, I love that aspect of like teaching and hosting. And so I feel like that's really where that outlet is going to be. And maybe in time I would like to teach, um, the upcycling, but there are some real experience, very talented people in the industry who were sort of spearheading that. So my idea is to, I guess I would like them to be peers one day, but I feel a little bit green in that sense.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:37:31

Well, I, and I know it's easy for me to say, but I obviously think you don't need to be, because I think, um, you were talking about imposter syndrome, I think that's a real thing, isn't it? But I think you only need to be, to know a little bit more than the person that you're helping, if that makes sense. Like I don't think you need to be the expert.

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:37:51

Yeah. And and to be honest, I, I probably know more than I realize. Um, when you are, when you do start teaching somebody something or explain something, you think, oh, I actually know a fair amount. But I think, yeah, my focus at the moment with the upcycling is, is making my name and, and working on my style as well, um, which tends to be leopard print, gold leaf, and bold colours, and so I'm really leaning into that, and so I, my, my objective and my hope is that people just sort of look at my work and know that it's me immediately, and I really feel like from there, my reputation hopefully will go before me.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:38:33

I think it will. And I think it sounds really fun as well. It feels like such a nice thing, because as you said, like it's really hard as adults to have a creative hobby that you enjoy and do it for fun. So I think what you're doing in your studio is really good because I think as soon as an, as an adult, you start doing something, you immediately start feeling like, oh, is this a good use of time? Or is this productive? Or I've definitely, I've had before where I've been, um, I've done something as a, which I thought was a hobby. And someone said to me, oh, are you going to sell that? And I'm like, well, no, I'm not going to sell that. I'm doing it just for relaxation or for fun or whatever it is.

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:39:15

Yeah. And I feel like that is what we need more of. Um, the, as horrific as the pandemic has been and as hard as lockdown was for many people, um, I do feel like some benefited from that slowing down. Um, and I, I feel like we could all just try to slow down a little bit in our, in our day to day lives and, um, just sort of not wait until we're stressed to, to do that. Um, for work, because my copywriting job means I speak to all sorts of people about all sorts of things. I spoke with a dermatologist and we were discussing sort of the link between eczema and stress, and he said well, honestly, my best advice is to get ahead of stress before it, you know, becomes a problem. And so even, you know, medical professionals are recommending that we try to slow down and find something that makes us feel relaxed and switch off, um, and not have that pressure to be productive. And, you know, there's always, you know, if you're a parent, there's always someone tugging on your arm that needs something from you and business. There'll always be a customer that needs something. There'll always be orders to go out. There'll always be something to do. But, um, I feel like if we can just proactively try to relax, then we, you know, we can do our work from a much more rested place, which is much nicer.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:40:42

I totally agree. I know it's easier said than done for lots of us, but yeah, that's really good advice. Speaking of which, I'm going to move on to my final question, Melissa, which I ask everybody, which is what would your number one piece of advice be for product creators and creatives?

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:41:00

I would say that done is better than perfect.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:41:06

Oh, that's interesting because that's my mantra as well.

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:41:10

And I think, I don't know if it's the same with you, but I think it's just advice I've had to give to myself, um, to keep me going, to get me going a lot of the time where I will procrastinate and procrastinate and sort of fall into this perfection cycle. Nothing will ever be 100%. And I think if we wait for it to be, we can talk ourselves out of things. And so, I am definitely an advocate for just making a start. However, it looks at the time, you know, if I look at my first website, first version of my website, um, to now. It's a completely different brand, but I never would have got to a place where I'm happy with it now. And even though it's still in development and, you know, we're still trying new things, I never would have got to that place if I hadn't just started. Um, and it's very easy to say that to someone, but then in practice, you know, it's, it's much different. And so I would say to have people around you who are going to be honest. Um, I have like cheerleaders in my life who will, everything I do to them is brilliant. And so I'll go to them when I need a real confidence boost. But then if I need someone to sound ideas off, you know, there are people who have a lot of sense and now, you know, help me to hone those ideas in a really like constructive way. Um, but just making that start, you know, and you gain momentum. Again, and being someone who more than likely has ADHD, um, having to sort of attach dopamine to mundane tasks is something that I've learned, and so, you know, however you have to make that start, just make those first few steps and the sort of the rush that you get from stepping out there is, it's, you know, it's unmatched and that's what keeps you going.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:43:03

That's really good advice. Thank you so much. Um, you won't be surprised here, I couldn't agree more because I always think that starting something is always the heart, well, for me anyway, it's not seeing something through, it's starting. And I think as soon as you take that first step, whatever it is, however small and don't overthink it and just do something, I think that then gives you the momentum to just keep moving forwards. Um. Yeah, certainly I've, I've learned. I've, and it's something I've had to learn is not to overthink things and sometimes just to do something and not stress too much about whether it's the right thing or the perfect thing or the best thing, but just do a thing and take it from there.

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:43:44

Definitely. I mean, one small thing every, every day, every week that, that moves the dial is, is enough.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:43:55

That's really great advice. Thank you so much for this. I thank you for everything you shared and for all of your time. Um, yeah, and it's been great talking to you and of course I'll have links to all of your businesses in the show notes for the episode.

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: 00:44:06

Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:44:11

Thank you so much for listening right to the end of this episode. Do remember that you can get the full black catalogue and lots of free resources on my website, vickiweinberg. com. Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful. Thank you again and see you next week.