Revolutionising Period Care and Gender Equality – Em Anastasi, In the flow

Welcome to the bring your product idea to Life podcast.

This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products, or if you'd

like to create your own product to sell. I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product

creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly,

practical advice as well as inspirational stories from small businesses.

Let's get started.

Hi. So today on the podcast, I'm speaking to Em

Anastazi. Em is a gender equality advocate, a

period poverty activist, and founder of in the flow, and

Em makes sustainable period products. She is saving

the planet one period at a time, and she's on a mission to tackle

period poverty and transform workplace cultures as well as

schools. And she is fundraising to tackle period poverty through

donations of her eco friendly period product. So we spoke a lot,

as you can imagine, about period poverty, what that means,

and Em kindly gave me a much better understanding of that than I think

I had at the beginning of our conversation. Em's goal really

is to talk about periods really openly. So as well as talking about

her products, we also talked a lot about

female health, menstrual health, and we spoke about how all of

this ties into the product that they are selling and how

everything that EM is doing goes beyond just having the product.

The product is a very small part, really, of

Em's overall mission. And I would love now to introduce you to

Emerald.

So, hi, Em. Thank you so much for speaking with me. Thank you so much

for inviting me on. I'm really happy to be here and to chat with you

today. Oh, thank you. So, can we start, if you please, give an introduction

to yourself, your business and what you sell? Sure, absolutely. So, my name's

Em. I am a gender equality advocate

and period poverty activist at my core,

but I'm also the founder of the social enterprise in the

flow. So I've developed a product and

campaign deliberately to try and tackle period

poverty. Amazing. Thank you. Let's

start by talking about period poverty, what that is and who's affected, and then we

can talk a little bit more about in the flow, your products and what you're

doing, if that's okay. Okay. Yeah, sure. So, bringing it, like,

to home. So, I'm from Brighton, and when I was looking into this,

43% of people that completed the survey in

Brighton suggested that they struggle to afford period

products each month. Now, Brighton is quite

a vibrant city and millions

face challenges with period poverty around the world. But it's not

just happening in other parts of the world, it's happening right here in

our communities. People in employment are

having to sacrifice certain items

to be able to afford period care. So

we know that one in ten miss school

or work because of it. We know that

97%

of people would leave their employer

to work somewhere else that had

a policy that supported their menstrual

health. We know that something silly like

89% experience stress and anxiety when

managing their period at work. And in considering those

stats, we have to think of all the reasons why it might be because they

don't have access to appropriate period care. It might be because of their

uniforms. It might be due to not being able to access

the bathrooms. Globally, there might be

cultural barriers, but essentially because

of period poverty, that then does create

a disproportionate gender based barrier into

education and work and career progression.

So my whole thing about around it

is that everyone should have the potential to reach their

full potential, and this shouldn't be a barrier or

obstacle for them to reach or achieve that. That

makes so much sense. Thank you for explaining that. And as you were talking, I

was thinking, you know, that what you're saying does mean there are people

who perhaps aren't going into school because they perhaps can't afford or

don't have access to period products or struggle with

periods. People who aren't going into work for those reasons. And that's

when you share the result of that survey. You said that took place in Brighton.

I think that when people talk about period poverty, it's often

talked about as being something that affects people in other

places. That must have really struck you when you realize that you're

from Brighton, you live in Brighton, and realize that such a high percentage of

people were encountering that. Yeah, I didn't realize. I

honestly didn't realize that it was so close to home. And

like, I. You know, I

had not experienced period poverty at that point, but I've been caught short

before, which I'm sure is something that we can all relate to. When you think

it's only the last three to five years that firm tech

has evolved. And tracking, like menstrual health

tracking apps, have really helped us understand our

body clocks. And when would you want. Prior to that,

I was working as a dental nurse in an all white uniform. And I remember

I came on my period, but I. Due to the

demands of the job, I had a patient in the chair. I couldn't just leave.

I sent a message to my colleague saying, can someone come and relieve me? But

no one was free or able to do that. So I'd sit there for, like,

45 minutes to an hour until the treatment had finished,

sort the patient out. Before I could then go and care for

myself, I had to run down, like, two or three flights of stairs,

walk into a staff room where everyone was having their lunch, where I visibly

stained my uniform. And in terms of,

like, what employers or what, I don't know, different work

settings hospitality could be doing is if they have access to period

care so it's available. It might have been a completely

different story. I could have just popped out knowing that there's a bathroom just there.

There's products I can use.

So that's what we're trying to encourage

and trying to have, I guess,

like business owners, property owners in public spaces, for their

teams to understand why it's so

necessary and essential for them to be able to provide those

products. Yeah. What a horrible experience.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. Well, it was. I

felt. I felt humiliated with it at the time. If it happened

now, I mean, I probably would stamp my feet a little bit and

say, this isn't acceptable. Like, someone should have been able to relieve me and

brought that into it, but I just accepted that it was just

one of those things. But I felt really uncomfortable. The worst thing about it

was I didn't feel comfortable talking to my colleague, a mouth dentist, about

it. And then it took me longer to make myself

presentable again before I could return, and I kind of got in trouble

for returning back to the surgery late.

So I think, you know, period poverty isn't just not

being able to access products, it's the

silence around menstrual health,

because I think people

unintentionally feed into the stigma and shame

they might not want to talk about because they don't feel comfortable or confident or

like it's not their space to talk about it. But that does

feed into the stigma and shame. The silence

perpetuates all of those things. So that's why we're trying to normalize

the conversation and invite people in to talk about it and to normalize it, because

it's a very natural thing, as we all know.

Yeah, that's really true. But I'm thinking as well, though, you mentioned you had a

male dentist. You're working for this. I guess there's trying to get, you

know, more acceptable for not acceptable, but women to feel

that it's acceptable to talk about it and to say, you know, I need, you

know, I want my period and I need to do this, or I need access

to something. But I think there's also getting men to

be more comfortable to talk about it because that's.

There's a whole other thing, isn't it? Because I know, like, even in my own

home, like, my husband doesn't really want to talk about my periods.

Yeah. Or hear me talk about my periods, which is tough, because I will talk

about them because they're happening. But I think there's that as

well. I think a lot of men would do. Maybe I'm stereotyping, but I feel

like a lot of men would do quite a lot to avoid having that conversation.

I've been really surprised. So I've worked in co working spaces and

I'm surrounded by men, by really wonderful, great men. And it's a completely

different experience to growing up with three brothers at home because my mum would wrap

my products in an Asda bag and tell me to put them in my bedroom.

So the boys didn't see, but it. She wasn't protecting me from the

embarrassment, she was protecting my brothers from the embarrassment. So

we've got to challenge that. And if the boys are protected from it,

of course they're going to grow up thinking, oh, I can't, this isn't my space,

I'm not supposed to be here talking about this. They're doing

it to protect us and to save us from the embarrassment is, you know,

a more likely scenario than them just being like, oh, that's

disgusting. But we need to challenge how

they view it and welcome them in for them to then feel

comfortable, which will then make people that menstruate feel more comfortable

and open to talk about it. So another example, period poverty,

might be that someone feels so uncomfortable and carry so much shame

and be in pain with their period. But rather than

calling their employer and saying, I'm in period pain and really

struggling, they might call in sick for something else and that would go against

them as like, a sick day. So

the period product and the sustainable period product brand that I've launched within the

flow is one thing, but actually that's just an opportunity for us to talk about

it because it's such a big

issue, isn't it? It really is, it is. And we will talk about your

products, but you just come back to what you're saying. I completely agree. And I

was thinking when you were saying about your mom sort of sparing your brother's embarrassment,

I remember being a little bit older than you and I may be a lot

older than you, I don't know. I remember being at school and when we would

have talks about periods, the girls would be taken into a separate

room with a female teacher who would talk to us about that. And I guess

the boys, I still don't know. You know, all these years we talked about something

else. And I don't think that maybe necessarily boys and girls need

the exact same conversation. But I mean, they need. Boys need to know

about periods and they need to know, obviously they're not going to experience them, but

I think it. Boys need to be taught about them

as well as girls, which I hope is happening in schools. Now.

I'm just thinking back to my period education class because I'm not a

period educator, but one of my goals and dreams is to go

into schools and help young people feel

more body and period positive. Our

demonstration was them dropping a tampon in a glass of water

to show us that it works. It's

absorbent. What they didn't tell us is that those products

contain 90% plastic. What they didn't tell us is that

that's an environmental hazard because it takes up to a thousand years for

it to break down. There wasn't much

alternatives surrounding sustainability or much of a sustainability

drive then, but there are now. And

I think we are far more

environmentally aware now. And people are seeking

alternative products.

And, you know, we've got a menstrual cup, but there are also absorbent

underwears and there's, you know, washable pads as well. So there

are a lot of plastic. Three healthier alternatives out

there. Another example, period poverty is

like the cultural barrier as well. For some religious reason, someone might not

use a pad, sorry, a tampon or a menstrual

cup. Period poverty.

Another example is people that don't

identify as a woman.

And the language that we use isn't inclusive. So it

really falls under the heading of women's health. There's a big

emphasis to call that whole department menstrual health,

specifically because we know that members of the trans community

already find it incredibly difficult to access healthcare

and I appointments and products.

So if that's one small thing that we can do to make it more inclusive

and accessible, then we should all really be pushing for that.

Absolutely. And I noticed you mentioned health there as well, because you're right. As well

as with traditional period products. So tampons and pads, as

well as all the environmental factors. There's also like the health issues

of you don't. You're actually putting something in your body that you

don't really know what's in it. I think a lot of us, for a long

time, well, myself anyway, for a long time, I didn't even question

that. Yeah, because that was what was marketed to us. I think we

even might have got like three little packs and things. When I was. I've got

a feel. I kind of remember getting like, you know,

samples from brands or whatever, and you just didn't even question

it because that we were taught that that was the norm and that was what

we used. I think it's just because it's such an essential item

that there's no other choice. You have to use it. So. So, you

know, like, marketing wise.

Well, the marketing side of things have really done us

dirty. And again, that feeds into the period stigma and shame as

well. And how uncomfortable we feel

about periods, of discussing periods, because some examples

for you. So menstrual

hygiene or feminine hygiene

products. Well, that has connotations. That is

unhygienic. When I grew up, we never used to call

them pads. We used to call them sanitary towels. And again,

sanitary, unsanitary has that sort of cleanliness element

around it, suggesting that it's not clean, it's unclean.

So that's why, again, a lot of the

work now is to call them what they are, their period products, their

pads, their tampons, and not trying

to censor around feminine hygiene

or, you know. Yeah,

exactly what it is. That makes sense. And you're right

that back then there weren't alternatives. It was tampons or pads,

and that was. That was it. But as you say now there are. There

are alternative products. So let's talk a bit about your products.

Sure. So had you heard much about menstrual cups? Do you

know much about them? I had heard. I had heard of

them, but not a lot, if

I'm being really honest. But let's talk a bit about them because

obviously there'll be plenty of people listening in who may

or may not have heard of menstrual cup or may have heard them, but not

be entirely sure what one is, who it's suitable for. So it'd be great if

we could start there. Actually, I've got a demo. I think the best way to

talk about it is to show you. Is that okay? Yeah, go for it. So

this is my product. We're called in the flow and we've got a

buy one, give one model. And again,

that's our purpose and our mission, to try and tackle peer poverty. So

our menstrual cups are made of a medical grade silicone.

So again, it's not plastic free. And the benefit of that is that it's a

safe, harmless material. When you think of how much medical

grade silicone is used in the medical terms, in the medical world as well,

hospitals. Another great thing about it is that they can be sterilized.

So this is our twin pack, which is why there's two different sizes.

Maybe if I hold them next to each other, you can see the difference. Oh,

yeah. One of these

lasts for ten years. So when you think,

ask yourself how many pads or tampons you would get through in a cycle, it's

different for each and every one of us, but on average, it's around

24 pads and tampons per cycle. So let's imagine two and a

half thousand a year. So,

sorry, two and a half thousand over a ten year period. So one of these,

just one, replaces two and a half thousand pads and tampons,

saving it from the environment. So 87% of the

waste from pads and tampons ends up in landfill

in our oceans, on our shores. So that's like the

environmental element of making the

swap. Another benefit is that

it offers more flexibility in that you can wear them for up to 12 hours.

So here we go. So it's really soft and flexible.

You can wear them to bed, you can sleep with them, you can swim with

them. And when you think in comparison to a tampon, because it's

absorbent, the string gets wet, but with this, it's

non absorbent. So the way it works is once it's

inserted, or you insert it by creating a sea fold, and then

I'll try and do it in a way that you can see. It will pop

open. It's designed to do that and it will create a seal and it's designed

to do that as well. That's so you try to work around the camera and

that's so you don't leak. There's some air holes in there

to be able to break the seal when you remove it. When you remove it,

you would just pull it out slowly and then you pour it into the toilet

and then you can rinse it, reinsert it, because you can

wear them for up to 12 hours. What a lot of people have sort of

found to be a period hack is to insert it in

the shower, forget about it all day and then clean

it, empty it, reinsert it in the evening when they get home.

That was a really good idea, actually, because I was about to ask that, and

it's really maybe a daft question, but I was about to say, what if you

need to empty it and you're in like a public, you know, you're in a

cubicle or something. So that's. That's a really good hack. Yeah, I guess

it offers that flexibility that you can wear it for longer when you think you're

supposed to. You place a tampon every four to 6 hours,

depending on your flow. If you're heavy, you might need to change it more.

But because people are struggling to afford period products,

they're wearing it for an extended period of time, which, of course

then creates other health

risks. So

you know that that feeds into it as well. So I guess that's a real

benefit in terms of menstrual health. And having this as an alternative is that it's

plastic free, it's non absorbent, it collects the

blood, it doesn't absorb it often. Tampons can be quite comfortable and sore and

dry when you remove them, it's a different

experience. And because it's leak free

with correct use, it really alleviates a lot of

that leak in and anxiety that you feel.

So it's a lot of people that have used it said that they wish they

tried it sooner and that it's increased their self

esteem. I can imagine that it would increase

your confidence because it's something like you say, you can put it in the morning,

go about your day, not even think about it. And then in the

evening, when you're home and wherever, empty,

I can definitely see the benefits because I'm sure all of us

have had the thing of, do I have a pad in my purse or my

handbag? Or you go to the gym and you're like, do I have anything? Oh,

gosh, what if I need to change? Change it? I guess it alleviates all of

that as well. All of that, like, extra thought and

planning. I think it's really great to have these conversations because

as we're talking about, we realize, oh, yeah, when I'm on my period, I wake

up and I do have to think about what I'm wearing to work. I do

have to think about where I'm going, if I'm going to be able to access

a restroom, a bathroom. You know, these things are all in the back

of our minds of, like, what if I get cut short or so?

The extended wear time and the comfortability

of it is definitely a

common positive feedback that we receive from those that make the

swap. But it also feels quite intimidating for

someone that hasn't seen it, felt it, or experienced it before,

because they're not readily available on the shelves. So for someone

that's making a swap from a pad or tampon, to a menstrual cup.

They might be a little. They might find that experience a little bit daunting at

first. The good news is everyone that has

tried one on my side, the people I've received, is that they

wish they tried it sooner. And that was my experience. I tried one about

seven or eight years ago and I literally, Vicki, I wanted

to knock on every single one of my neighbors doors

to tell them about it. I called all my friends, I called my cousins, because

I was like this, like, we need this. Like, I need to share this with

everyone. I think that was one of the inspirations, again,

around why this has been developed to what it

is today. Well, and seven or eight years ago, it's such a.

You know, I'm thinking back and I think they must have been even less

common then than they are now. I think.

Yeah. And I think that's why a lot of the people that I spoke about

were a bit like, oh, I don't like the sound of that.

But often it's because it's the unknown. And

when you start talking about it and start building the familiarity of things

that builds trust, increases someone's confidence

to make the swap. So that's why we have to talk about it, really. And

that's why we have to do demonstrations and encourage people to know

what other alternatives are out there. And

it's really difficult. As a brand owner, I feel now that I

know all this information, that I have a duty to share that

with people. But at the same time, I don't at all

want to guilt or shame anyone that I use in pads and tampons, if that

product works for them. I just want to make them aware

because I think if a lot of people knew, they'd be influenced

or they might want to

consider that for themselves. Do you know what I mean?

Absolutely. I think you're right. And I'll be really honest. When I first heard about

them, and I want to say it was, I don't know, ten years ago, eight

years ago, I thought it sounded really weird. I

did. I'm really honest with you, Em. I remember thinking, I

just felt like it was something that wasn't for me. And I can't even tell

you why I thought it wasn't for me. Possibly because it wasn't. I mean,

it's not mainstream now by any means, but possibly because I never knew anyone that

used one. I've just. I just heard of it. But nobody

in my life was using them. You don't

see them on Insanesbury's, on the shelves or in the pharmacist or.

Actually, that's a really good point. Do you might not know the answer to this,

but I'm just cursed to be that. As I've said that, I don't actually think

I've seen menstrual cups on the shelves. Now I have a

theory behind it. I would love to. Saints Briz, if you're listening,

hello. I'd love to be stocked on your shelves.

I think because there's still so much

awareness that we need to work towards for there to be a demand for this

product and there hasn't been so often. A lot

of these products are only available online. Some of the

more like sustainably driven local

shops, they tend to be like independent shops, might

stock some. And also

when you really think about it now on a business

perspective, it's not in their best interest, is it? Because I've just told

you, one of these lasts for ten years. So

the value of this product, other, other menstrual

I launched my product as 24

pounds, but then the feedback that I received from friends and from

people in employment was like, yeah, but 20 pounds is a lot of money upfront.

And in my messaging I was saying, yeah, but then you save like

1400 pounds over ten years. If you think someone spends on average

twelve pounds a month on period care, 144 pounds a month,

1440 pounds over a ten year period. I'm like 20 pound

really missed the mark here. We're doing this to tackle period poverty and the

only people that will be able to benefit from that financial saving are

people that are in a privileged enough position to be able to afford 20

pounds upfront. So we've reduced the price. So I've reduced the price down

to twelve pounds now, which feels more in line with

what people are already spending.

That makes sense. And I was thinking about what you were saying then

and it's such a challenge though because I can totally see now you've said it.

Of course not, of course. But I can totally see why some of the

bigger people wouldn't want them on the shelves because as you said, they're

going to sell one to one customer and that customer hopefully isn't

going to come back for another ten years for another one. Repeat custom

month on month. Yeah. So it's not repeat, but

that for business owners like yourselves that's a real challenge, isn't it?

That unless you can get stocked, as you say, in smaller independent

stores. It's going to be really hard to get your product

literally in front of. People, even trying to sell a

product online. Nightmare, let me tell you.

Google, no disrespect, Google, love what you're doing. But

they kept, like, blocking it because they saw it as a sexual product.

And again, title wise, it was falling under the feminine

hygiene category, where we don't have feminine

hygiene listed on our website. So when you're thinking of,

like, SEO and how to be found on keywords, that's a bit of a barrier

when we're trying to be more inclusive and that goes against what, you

know, what we stand for.

So that's definitely been a bit of a barrier as well, being censored as

a product. We kept getting rejected

and I was receiving warnings as well, saying that, you know,

you've added a complicit image or

this is against our terms. And I was thinking, oh, my goodness, I do

not. I can't be blocked. I've got this far with it and

now I'm at the risk of having our account completely shut

off and taken down. So that was, you know,

that's also been not so much a branding

issue, more like a product issue in trying to be discovered

online. That is really hard. And

what are you doing to kind of get your brands out there? Is it online

or other things you're doing to kind of get the

exposure? Yeah, so, I mean, the product is

available online on my website. We've just

actually been offered our first pop up, which

is wonderful. It's with a sustainable footwear brand

called New Ocean. They've very excitedly just

opened their first flagship shop in Brighton in

Dukes Lane. And as being like another Brighton sustainable business,

they've offered us some physical presence in their

store. That's amazing. Yeah. Really exciting and really, really

kind of theme. Otherwise it's online. But actually

the buy one, give one model drips and drafts, having one that we can donate

here and there. We were babies. We're still very new, actually, what

I'm working on is a period positive employer

campaign for employers to make a pledge to make a donation to be

period positive. And then my recruitment

consultancy, HR background is to then help, then implement

a menstrual health policy for them to make that pledge

and accredit them as period positive employers. And then with the pledge,

they then make a donation. So then we can make our make a

donation as part of their CSR efforts, but

also for us to then, like, do the work that we want to be

doing. Wow, that's amazing. So it's more than just a product. It's a

whole movement, really. It's a mo. Yeah. And actually,

that's all. That's our, you know, that's how we're leaning with it, like

join the movement. It's so much more. And I think I've struggled

with talking about it because at the very beginning I said, I've

got a product, but the product is an opportunity for us to talk about something

else. The product feeds into it, but we're trying to address

and tackle a much bigger issue. So it has

been completely inspired from being

a gender equality advocate. Do you mind if we talk

a little bit more about buy one, give one? Because we've mentioned it, but we

haven't actually explained exactly what you're doing. Yeah, I think it's really good to

talk about. Thank you. So essentially, each

time someone buys our product,

we make a donation. So it's almost like a pay it forward.

So they buy one and then we've got one to donate to someone.

That's amazing. So when I say we donated to

someone, it's not being donated to influencers who are creating content

for us. That's gifting. That's something else. Yeah. But

we're working with charitable partners,

underserved low income communities, for us to be able to give them

some to people. Who actually are going to benefit people. That actually need them.

Yeah. So one of my campaigns at the moment is a.

A part of this period positive pledge with them. Making

donations means that we can work in local communities

and have like, an ask for flow campaign. So we'll have a

sticker in community centers or where, you know,

people that might need that product frequent. But

again, rather than it feeling like a charitable donation or

them really having to ask for it, for us to try and maintain their

dignity. And the most kindest way for us to do that

is to say, like, if you're struggling with period products, come in and ask for

flow, and then they've got a bag that they

can just say, okay, there you go. That's for you. Like, no questions asked.

So hopefully we can do it in a really gracious way to support

someone. That's all absolutely amazing. I'm just kind

of blown away by all that you're doing because it's so much more than a

product. Yeah. And so

it's not like a 22nd intro or conversation. So it's

nice that you made so much time for me to be able to share that

with you and explain it in a little bit more detail. So thank you. No

problem at all. And the final thing I'd like to talk about. That's okay.

Is the other, I guess the other piece of this is,

and again, you've touched on it before, is gender equality and what you're

doing there as well because I think that we should talk about

everything around this. Yeah. Thank you. Well,

because it is a gender based

barrier. That's why, you know, one in, one

in. Do you know what it was one in ten, but I think it's now

actually one in five. I said one in ten at the beginning. More recently, the

research suggests it's now one in five that miss school education

or work because of period, poverty.

So that's young

girls. So

in terms of like gender equality wise,

that's how that feeds into it. It's acknowledging

and understanding the intersectionality

of how that looks. And

of course it's going to look different for each person,

but it's more than just

there's so many moving components to it. But that's the real

essence and divide as to why this feeds into gender

equality and why I'm doing it that way. That's amazing

because I think you're right, there is definitely a

piece missing. Isn't that whether it's education or

empowerment for young

girls and women? Yeah,

absolutely. And

they're disproportionately affected by it. So that's the

focus really. We've acknowledged it, we know it

exists and now it's more than just raising

awareness. We have to take action.

Definitely. Do you want to talk about some of what you're doing within the flight

to tackle it? Yeah, sure. So obviously

we've got the product anyway. We've got the buy one, give one model. The

last year for me has been

strategizing and

developing a way of

being able to make more of an impact rather than just through the individual sales

of the product. Because I never,

if I wanted to be like a brand owner and

like I would white label something and drop ship on Amazon

or like that would be the moneymaker, but it's not. That's not

really been the reason or purpose behind what I'd

like to achieve within the flow. My absolute

goal with it really is to fundraise for us to then be able

to go into schools, deliver these

educational presentations, to let them know what sort

of products are available,

how that might make them feel, what they

might experience, the impact on the environment,

society and the communities as a whole. My

absolute dream is for period care to be

made available. France

have free period care. I think we're a

long way off, but a lot of people are really pushing for it.

Schools have some funding to

apply. I guess I've

mentioned slightly around, like, different barriers, around

some cultural, religious reasons. Not everyone's going to use our products.

So our product isn't for everyone, but our brand is. The core

mission behind in the flow is to serve everyone.

And I think that's what I'm having the most fun with as well, is, like,

connecting all the dots and then working with people

that can help us in some way. So right now, I'm looking for

sponsors. I'm looking for

people to join on to my period positive

employer campaign as a funding opportunity.

I'm looking at getting into events because

that's a, you know, they're the spaces that we can talk about it.

So that's everything that I've been working on beside the product side of

things, the product development side of things. That's amazing. And,

you know, I feel like the product is what we've talked about the least. And

I guess that is kind of deliberate because I know

that while the product, you know, you do have a product, it feels like a

small piece of everything that you're doing. And I think,

as you said at the start, I think this whole conversation is really

important. And yes, we can talk about your product, and thank you for showing us

that. And I'm going to make sure that video is included when we share the

episode. I think it's good for people to have an understanding of the product,

but I guess the need for the product

comes from that bigger picture. It just has such a

great impact. I think I've always been. I always think you should just

lead with empathy. And I think we

all have the power behind us to make a

real difference in the world. And not everyone

has the opportunity to

either find their purpose, it might be something that they haven't discovered yet, and they're

still trying to discover what that might be. But I feel like

in having this, I've become so aware

that this is now my purpose.

And I think when I introduce myself as an activist,

I think people might be a little bit put off by that. They might think

that that's quite aggressive and different.

Like, activism looks different in many different ways.

I'm not out marching the streets. I have been before,

but I've got a set.

I've got a set of skills and experience. I love design, I

love developing ideas. I love, you know,

brainstorming. I love community.

So I think that's how I've been able to create and

develop this outside of it just being a product.

But for anyone that I guess is looking to find their

purpose and not sure how they can make an impact, we all

hold that power. I think it's imposter syndrome that holds us back. Like

I said, one of the first thing I said was that I'm not a period

educator. I might have

discouraged myself from doing what I'm doing because I was working in

dentistry before. Completely

different. Completely different. That could have been a reason to,

that, I guess,

stopped me from feeling capable or like I

was the right person for it. So I guess for anyone

listening, that feels like they've definitely experienced that self

doubt. If you care about it and you believe in

yourself, just do it. Just start and see where it takes

you. That's such great advice. Thank you.

I think you're right. I think there's always a temptation to think, oh, someone else

will do that. Or you just stick to what you know. I've been doing this

for the last 20 years. It's safe, it's comfortable, which

it is, and it's fine, but you can still have passion projects. This started as

a passion project, and then I just became obsessed with it. The

more I researched well, the more I

dug, the deeper I got, basically.

Thank you. And one last question before we finish em

is, and I mean, you've given us plenty of advice already, but what would your

number one piece of advice be for other product creators?

Oh, like, just be super aware of

your self limiting beliefs and what you tell yourself, because there is a

solution for absolutely everything. Really understand your

market and your demographic. I think

sometimes when we have an idea, it's so wonderful, it's so new

and shiny that we think, oh, this is going to absolutely work. But there's so

much that needs to go into understanding if there is a need or

demand for it. There's definitely been

platforms that I wish I

hadn't experienced at the

beginning because spending in

ads and marketing made me feel

so far removed from my mission, because I felt

like if I'm spending that in marketing and advertising, I could be spending that in

donations. So it felt really uncomfortable for me, and

I didn't quite realize how much you have to spend on those sort of things

for you to be discovered. I think that was a, that was a real

oversight for me, having my

first product based business, because that's what it is. You've got to

start somewhere. I've got to have a product to be able to do all the

other things that I'm doing. So I think

really complete your research and understand what sort of platform

is right for you and your market. That's

brilliant advice. Thank you so much. Em. Thank

you. Thank you so much for listening. Right to

the end of this episode, do remember that you can get the full back catalog

and lots of free resources on my website, vickywineberg.com. please

do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it, and

also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful. Thank you

again and see you next week.