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Natalia Bolek sells wooden products – and every single one is unique and made to order. Find out how she does it!

Listen in to hear Natalia share:

  • An introduction to her business and a description of her products (00:50)
  • How she got started creating her wooden products (4:55)
  • The importance of moving forward – even if you’re taking small steps (9:02)
  • When she started making her boxes – and what’s changed since those early years (11:40)
  • Why this is a good time to start an online business (14:00)
  • Working from home, around her family and why it works (14:39)
  • How and when she made the change from a hobby to a business (18:48)
  • How she got her first orders (21:09)
  • Evolving her offers and processes to make life simpler! (24:24)
  • Her marketing focus and why it’s something to work on (26:06)
  • Why she still feels like she’s just starting out – 7 years in (27:42)
  • Crafting from home (33:19)
  • What she loves about selling products (36:00)
  • Her number one piece of advice for other product creators (39:20)

USEFUL RESOURCES:

Naboso Handmade website

Naboso Handmade on Instagram

Naboso Handmade on Facebook

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Transcript

Making every product to order – with Natalia Bolek, Naboso Handmade

INTRO (:

Welcome to the Bring Your Product Ideas to Life podcast, practical advice and inspiration to help you create and sell your own physical products. He is your host Vicki Weinberg

Vicki Weinberg (:

So Welcome today. I'm talking to Natalia Bolek founder of Naboso Handmade and Natalia creates weird and personalized gifs, which she creates together with our clients each and everyone is unique. And one of a kind, so without any further ado, I'd love to introduce you yo Natalia.. So, hi, thank you so much for being here.

Natalia Bolek (:

Hi, I'm happy to be here as well. How are you?

Vicki Weinberg (:

Really good. Thank you. So let's start, could you tell us a bit more about your business and what it is that you sell and, and perhaps described your products? And it was a bit for us. And I was mentioning before we started, I've had a look at your website in your products to me is so unique and creative, and of course, I'll put a link in the show notes that everyone can actually see them. Can you just describe what they are and what you do please?

Natalia Bolek (:

Yes. So I make these boxes, which I don't make them from scratch. As some people might think, I just buy boxes, which are from a pine wood. Then I paint him with acrylic panes. And there are in This, as you probably noticed that a more like shabby chic or vintage style, but I think, and what we found out of my clients, it works for everyone, like, even for a kid's. So, and then they can be personalized in whatever. Like, if you want it's M it can come with your own wording.

Natalia Bolek (:

It can come with your own pictures, or it can go without pictures at all. But sometimes I've got the clients calling me and saying that they need a gift for someone who's got absolutely everything. And it's so hard to like choose something. And especially if you got like a small amount of money and then we can create something together. Like, even if it's just a simple tissue, a cover box, and then you would just be there for a picture of Her and the family, like of the person and her family, and a nice quote.

Natalia Bolek (:

And if there's like a stylish in its unique, and that person opens it and find it to be like very thoughtful and unique gift. And it just, I don't know that the tissue covered books is 25 pounds and it includes all of the personalization there. So the person who orders is happy and that person who gets it, it's happy as well. So,

and we can, I can make the box for, I don't know, a newborn kids for the kids, which are they celebrate their birthdays. We can make a box with the wedding picture for a wedding anniversary and or for a wedding

itself.

Natalia Bolek (:

We can. Yeah. And it all started with the boxes, but now it's more expanding and because, and sometimes people want more of like, they already buy the box and they are looking for something else. So now it's a tissue cover boxes, as well as the wooden blocks where you can actually have your own photo. And for example, quote as well, a, so it can come for any occasion from Christmas to birthday, to friendship, celebrity M and now at the moment, the hexagons would, you can see behind my back are exploding.

Natalia Bolek (:

And because it's a very like, eh, hexagons or circles are a very modern now, no wonder if it was a very functional and so you can create your own in like the design. Yeah. And a really popular at the moment or the Christmas bubbles, which are flat wooden Christmas bubbles with your own picture. And I don't have Merry Christmas wording on the top, so yeah.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Oh, wow. And you make absolutely everything. Is that right? So every year

Natalia Bolek (:

it has to be a good first of all, and this is how exp well I've started to, when I, I, I didn't get back to work. And then I was like, if this is not the like happy story, because I just found out on my maternity leave, the, and I'm going back. So on the time when I should be like, happy about all the new person in my life, and I was like, struggling with the food because I had no money. And then I was invited for my best friend's wedding. And I wanted to give her something very like personal.

Natalia Bolek (:

I didn't want to do just go by a gift, especially if you are just struggling financially. So I was looking online and I found a box and it was so much expensive because it was Handmade. And I saw it. I was thinking, you know, but just the box we'll cost me like 10 times less. And I was like, I would do it by myself. So this is how I, you know, what I ordered my first box. And when I look at that picture of the books that I've created that, and it's so completely different, but it, I was so proud of myself that I have done something about myself.

Natalia Bolek (:

I couldn't wait for her to open it. And because I was so happy, but then, you know, I started to watch some tutor y'alls and I found that the co-pack and I've started to create stuck with the Coopers. And one of my friends ask me if I can do box for her kids. So I've ordered some bigger boxes and I had too many of them. And then I gave one of the, which I had spoke to one of my friends and someone saw it at her house. And this is how I've got my first order for money. And it was like completely different story then, because first I wanted to do, you know, I had like, I didn't have much money.

Natalia Bolek (:

I was giving a Prince, a present to my family, and then someone noticed that, and then we wanted it. So this is how I got my first order. And then I started to, I, then I was still a struggling, like I wanted to go back to work, but I've realized one day that I had so many more orders because it was like, you know, I'm getting more popular. And that I've said to myself, why do I have to prove to someone that I'm smart and clever. If I can just do it in my own business, and then we'll start everything.

Natalia Bolek (:

And I start all my energy, not ongoing on and work for some others, people, I would start to work for myself and I will try and make a brand. Then I've signed myself up for, to marketing work workshops and well, first won. And then someone to just, you know, made me think that it's not only in my boxes I can make, I can make the course how to make the box and show people. Then they can do it themselves. But I'm not that on that stage yet, because I feel, you know, that that would be a out of my comfort zone still.

Natalia Bolek (:

And I think today our conversation today is one, like my first step towards it, that if I can be able to record my voice, I will be able to record to myself, how do I do it? And then we'll take it from there.

Vicki Weinberg (:

And it's really good to have that, to work towards it. As we have a speaking about it before we started recording you, do you have to take things into small steps and move ha you know, moving stages that I feel Like for you, that you're comfortable with, that work around family or other commitments. You know, you don't always have to go in and do everything day one. So I think it's really good that you've got that as a future plan, but you knew, you know, at the outset, you know, you didn't want to go and do that right away, right?

Natalia Bolek (:

Yes. It's, it's small steps, which are the most important, because even if we take small steps, I'm like, even if you can work only half an hour, a day, it's, as long as it going forward, it makes you a progress. So then you can, but we have to remember about one thing because my to-do list is so massive that I always think, Oh my God, I should have done this. And I don't have that time for that, that I keep forgetting about looking backwards and see how big progress I have made. And especially, I forget to say, Natalia you have done well, cause I kept saying that to my kids, but I keep forgetting about greeting myself that look at your pictures.

Natalia Bolek (:

For example, I take my own pictures, buy the camera, but if you would go back on my Instagram account, so sometimes I'd do it just to say to myself what you've done well, because I couldn't find like proper lighting.

And then I was, I was selling before the recording that if you don't know how to do something, it would just keep it simple as possible. Because now I add some details to the pictures and it helps to show that my product is bigger S or, or just, you know, when I did the baby box, I put the rattle a by the side.

Natalia Bolek (:

So I'm keep it to like, I, I just keep on developing with all the pictures I make and well not with all the, just the pictures with everything basically.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Yeah. And I think this is the most important thing, isn't it? That you got started and slowly, slowly things evolve and you get better at being with your confidence greys. And I think it's really a good way that you do that. Looking back. I think a lot of us, you know, don't take the time to look back and see how far we've come, because we're always thinking of the next thing we should be doing. We could be doing, I mean, look and recognizing progress is brilliant. So how long, how long was it since you first started creating your boxes?

Natalia Bolek (:

Well, it is when my daughter was around 80 years old, so sorry that my daughter is 18 years old and I have done the first box when I was a, when she was born, she was around what year was a one year old. So it's about seven years. But at the beginning it was just like tiny little hobby. And from the moment I've learned how to transfer the picture into the box, eh, it was just then it exploded. Cause first deco Pash. And, but with deco, cause you have to be, I think, more creative.

Natalia Bolek (:

And, but from the moment I've, I've learned how to transfer the picture. Now I can create everything on the computer and then transfer on the product like a, with the boxes. And for example, we created an, a quote and around it, do you have to frame with the flowers, etc. And the best thing is that my kids are learning with me because my daughter now she's eight years old and she can use Canva by herself.

Natalia Bolek (:

And she had already design a Christmas, a bubble for her teacher by herself. So she is learning how to design as well. So it's a good thing. But answering your question is, and I've started my first book that I've done around seven years ago. And for years ago when I decided I'm gonna make it into the basis. And at the moment I think on this stage where I can say it's, My good part-time job because I will earn that much money if I would have to go and work.

Natalia Bolek (:

So, and I wanted to make a full-time, this is what this is like, you know, if one year ago you would tell me that is going to work as good. I wouldn't say that it will like, but I think this year is, is very challenging for

everyone, but it's a good opportunity for starting online business. Because if not now, then when, because if every, everything is moving into online, cause the shops are closed, people are looking into supporting small, tiny in businesses or Handmade in people or crafters.

Natalia Bolek (:

The Christmas markets are closed. So you can go there and show yourself. Yeah. Oh thank you.

Vicki Weinberg (:

So it sounds like it was for the first few years, it was perhaps more of a hobby and you're doing boxes, you know, for people who get them.

Natalia Bolek (:

Yes. Because I had like, like when I've done like 200 pounds in like a free mom's sign or something, I was like, Ooh, opening that bottle of champagne because it was so good. But now if you do it, if you can do it in a week or even quicker, and for that, I don't have to work eight hours. Eh, I can 'cause, you know, you just spent the books, you live in there and you can cook the dinner, then you can design something. Why, you know, there are others, if you have kids at house.

Natalia Bolek (:

So, and then when they go to sleep, you can roll those boxes because this is how I do them. Like first you have to glue the picture, which is laser print. And then you roll the paper out of it. So basically the printout is stays on their box. So I always called it the eye roll the boxes. So you can, you know, manage that while you work in at home, you can now be able to set to dinner. Do you do laundry and the same time and work.

Natalia Bolek (:

And, but I've decided it, well, you need to get a good strategy and good plan. And if you use all the resources like you have, or if you have a family who can't look after your kids while you're working used it, if you can, if you don't have family here or like, like a, I'm not immigrant's so I can use it a good friend of mine, or sometimes it's hard 'cause we don't have them. Like I'm lucky enough to have my mum around, but she is working full time. So its not much, she cannot help, but still it's, you know, small steps, small or like among like using the time.

Natalia Bolek (:

And basically the best thing is to find someone who is already done all this stuff. And do you listen to smarter people than you? Like I was before we, we, we have started to listen to your post test podcast and then I've already had the list of the stuff I have to work on after I've listened to what you were saying, I still have to go back to the beginning and then decide what my perfect customer is. I know this is my, like a weak point from the first day one on my marketing course.

Natalia Bolek (:

And then there's like a world out there where we can reach to find a smarter people or a way to listen to them. And first they gave so much for free so we can learn from that. And if we, you know, do what they are telling us to do and it's going to start working and when we will earn some money, we can invest those money in developing our brands. You can, if you don't know how to make pictures, you can pay someone to take some pictures for you or you can sign yourself a marketing course and you can, you know, it's, it's a big journey for me, especially because I've learned so much.

Natalia Bolek (:

I know I have many more staff to learn and then, but, but yeah, it's a lovely journey because you learn and you develop constantly not only your brand, but yourself, a soul.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Yeah. Thank you. So coming back to your journey, so what is your coming back to, right? So at the beginning of your journey, what happened? So what, what is, what made the change for you? So you, what, what made you, I guess I'm trying to establish, when did you decide you wanted this to be a business rather than a hobby and what, what has changed for that for you to be in a different space with it?

Natalia Bolek (:

Well, it was when I was spending money to work for somebody, cause I wanted to, to get back or to start a job where I was back in Poland because, and back in Poland, my background was based on film industry and then I wanted to get into that in England, but then I found it too much struggling because I had to, you know, when you have kids and starting working in the film industry is not that easy because you have to be fully commitment to the work you're doing and having to kids.

Natalia Bolek (:

And it's not that, you know, something that you can go and work 12 hours a day or working weekends. I said to myself, I don't want to do it anymore. I think it's, it's still really easy if you do something first and then you have kids and you know how to deal it, that the employer knows you. And so we'll help you and you know, to take a half of the work to home, for example. So I said, I can not come compared to other people who will be willing to work for free because they're, I don't know, dependent on their parents and a younger, they, and I said, it's not worth it.

Natalia Bolek (:

And I just don't want to prove it to someone that I'm smarter. And then I can be, you know, it's worth to me to give me a chance. I said, no, I just gave up on that. I just said, I will do the boxes because I will be able to stay with my kids and work at the same time. And then yeah, I found it a way that it's working.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Great. And how did you, so when you decided you wanted to run this as a business, how did you get your first order's? How did you start getting people aware of you and what you were offering

Natalia Bolek (:

a well, a main, mainly through the social media When Do you have people looking for the products? Like, well, I can find something good for my, a broader in lieu. I don't know the 40th birthday. And then you have this bunch of people saying, yeah, you can find it here. And so mostly for that. And I've noticed that before I was thinking that I will need like a lots of customers, but it's not true. I don't need a lot of customers. I ha I have my usual clients, which orders like a constantly or even every free months because there is always someone's birthday.

Natalia Bolek (:

So there's always someone new who is born or there's someone's wedding or, or weddings anniversary. So I have mine, usual clients and one in particular, she is like, she is the kind of person When. I think that like she phoned me up two years ago for the first time. And she wanted to check the box for her daughter's 16th birthday. What she said, what the boxes you have that are too small. So this is how I started to make like a large chests, which are like 50, 60 centimeters long So.

Natalia Bolek (:

So you can use it for a blanket or toys. So I have done the first box for her and she always really looking for something more. So this is how, and I never gave up at the start. So someone say it wants something and I'm like, Oh, I have never done it before, but I will be really happy to do that for you. And I usually give them better price. And then this is how my portfolio expanded. And first I had like three sizes of boxes. And now my friend told me because it's a sharp is on my own, like to do at least because I have the shop on Etsy, but no single source of indirect because I have to work on my a C E O.

Natalia Bolek (:

And so she said, I will help you, but you need to, you know, prepare yourself your picture's and the list of your product. And when I started to type the list of my products, I said, Oh my God, I have like a full, a full page of my products. And I said, I didn't even realize that I've developed so much. So now I have two to build the shop and Etsy and expand for more customers in not only, you know, the, the people from a Facebook groups, but just to have, you know, more regular or more clients.

Natalia Bolek (:

And because before what was stopping me, it was that I made them so personalized that I wanted, you know, to, to, to, to discuss about it. But I need to know, like in a more temple, my work with temples where actually someone will have the design ready for them and just replace the picture and the quote and you know, 'cause people want to have a quick and they just wanted to press and have it done. So this is what I'm going to work on.

Natalia Bolek (:

Like to have to show up where somebody can actually easily order without talking about that too much with me. Is it possible to do it now? You just said, you have to send me the email and just, but I think it might be too complicated in scale to some customers the way, so, yeah.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Sounds good. And it sounds like, yeah, as you go along, do you, do you find ways to make your budget change your processes wherever it is to make it easier or more efficient? I really love by the way, the fact that you have so many clients that come back to you and back to you and the fact that they're sort of, you know, their impact in how you expand your range of products, I think is amazing because it shows, you know, you're really creating what your customers want and the fact that you were getting so much business from word of mouth as well from people recommending you on Instagram, on Facebook, I think is fantastic. So do you do any sort of, do you have to do much marketing yourself or at the moment, is most of your business coming from recommendations?

Natalia Bolek (:

It just coming from recommendations, but yeah, you know, at the beginning I told you to do it in couple of months, I had made like 200 pounds, but if we were just humans, so we want more and more. So I now, because I've already done sentence stage, I want even more so it's nice to have this like a small bunch of customers, but I think I, I want to develop the app and have more customers and be more financially independent from what I'm doing right now. And then, and it's it.

Natalia Bolek (:

This is it possible, but it, as I, you have to learn from somebody smarter or somebody who have already went through the, the journey because it will save you time. So yes, I have to focus on more marketing as well on like how to promote myself more. I, I do it now by myself on Facebook and Instagram, but work, I have to work on this and take it from there.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Thank you. So you mentioned, and when we were speaking before we started a recording that even though you'd been doing this for a while, you feel like you're only just starting out. So can you talk to that a bit? Yeah.

Natalia Bolek (:

Please yeah, because in the last, I think that I'm only started to, cause when I, I wanted to be to years ago, it is completely different way for me, because I had like sharp by to do lists for a long, long time. And, and then in the last two years we had some struggles with my partners in health. So there was something which came first and I couldn't, you know, developed as much.

Natalia Bolek (:

'cause, it is hard sometimes when you have kids has a home to look after, and then it's enough work when I just have to do the products. So I have to, when I have not so busy, I should get going on these, you know, building the shop or a et cetera. But that this Is like funny stories. And Usually when I'm not, when I have a quieter period really like, Oh my God, nobody likes my Product. You know, sometimes you have that little voice behind it inside your head is telling you you're not good enough, et cetera.

Natalia Bolek (:

And then when I have orders and I'm around all this beautiful things and I'm so proud of what I've done, that I'm like, yeah, I can do that. And I can do that. And w if I found it by myself, that what if more busy, I am a more, a creative and I can do much more staff like this year, for example, my best selling month this year, it was August when my partner was ill and because he was in the hospital in July, and then he was at home poorly.

Natalia Bolek (:

And I had kids to look after obviously know school because it was Holy day. And then I was, I had to park my staff cause we were moving house and then I've done the sail because I, I wanted to get rid of the boxes. So I would have less to move from one house to another and I have like a massive sales and that, and I've done it. And then now when I look at that and I was like, how I've done it, like I have so much energy to do it. And yeah. And when I looked at, but I am just feeling proud of myself.

Natalia Bolek (:

So that's what do you have to, you know, what to do every single day. You have to tell yourself that you're good.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Oh, absolutely. And I think that what you said at that time is really interesting. I think you're right. That when you're busy, it's almost easier to be motivated and have lots of energy. And then when it's quiet is, is that she can be harder to get yourself to do things, but then that's, that's, I guess it's also a challenge when you're making your products, because when you're busy, your priority always has to be making the product because that's ultimately how your making your money. So I can completely see how marketing and all of the other tasks they have. So many other tasks are out there and we have to do them all. I can completely see how they, you know, the actual Making would be the priority of everything. Yeah.

Natalia Bolek (:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg (:

So you've mentioned your, you know, your family a few times, I know you have young children, so how does your business, you know, does it work around, around family? Is it, can you find a balance, right?

Natalia Bolek (:

Yeah, it can. No. At the moment is easier because they are back at school a full time, but a buck in the time when only my daughter was going to nursery for free hours, I had everything so well organized that when she was at school, I was doing my workout and workouts made me keep going even better because I dunno in the fence helps me. So I think that a more effective when I can do exercises then, but it stopped when I had done some, I had some joint problems and I had, I had to stop working out, but it it's still, you know, how to handling the time.

Natalia Bolek (:

Like you can work when your kid is sleeping or in the evening, if you can just, you know, find one hour in the evening, that will be a prophet. Because as I said, it will be just small steps. I don't, I was scared. I mean, it

Vicki Weinberg (:

Just is always a juggle, isn't it? And I guess, especially you must be a harder to juggle when you're, you have, as you mentioned before your doing something that is quite messy, presumably takes up space. Yeah.

Natalia Bolek (:

It it's. Cause we tend to the flood now and I still don't struggle. I don't have my own space to work. And ah, I mostly worked in my living room, still some stuff. So sometimes if I have to, you know, give myself my kids dinner or on the coffee table instead of the, the, the dining one, but still they know that I work because my daughter helps me with painting boxes. My my son. It is unscrewing them and before pain Ching.

Natalia Bolek (:

So they know that are part of it. They feel parts of it. And so I think I do it for them to show them that even because they can hear me now that sometimes I'm struggling 'cause I did something and its not quite as good as its supposed to be an hour, but I don't give up it's I will fix it and I we'll do it eventually. So, it's good to set that example for them that you will work on this stuff and even, yeah. And I bought myself a desk where I can work on now, but it's still an issue.

Natalia Bolek (:

I have a mess on the desk and on my dining table. So I have to work on The a bit of a space and the shed because I paint usually in the garden, it's hard in the winter time, but still you can do it it's it's not everyone's work, which, or products, which we'll be, you know, messy is it, this is me, but, and yeah, so you have to, you know, put something to protect a carpet and there is always a way to find it out. And the, the small things, we should not tell, let them to stop us from what we want to achieve.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Right. Yeah. And I think as you said, that's a really good message to give your kids as well in good for your kids to see you find in solutions. I'm finding ways to work around things because hopefully that reinforces that in our children as well. If they see us looking for solutions and having that kind of attitudes, I think that was a really nice for children's to see that. Yeah. So just a few final questions before we finish up, if that's okay. So can you tell us a few things that you love about having a business selling products, as opposed to maybe anything else you've done?

Natalia Bolek (:

What I love the most is the emotions and the emotions, which are connected with the product. Because one, one of my first big boxes I've created, it was for my best friend's 30th birthday. And I have contacted her family back in Poland, eh, to send me a picture when she was a little baby. So I've put it on the top. And then there was the message it on the side of the box, car PDM and enjoy the moment and insight. I've put the, put a picture of her with her mom, which is already not with her.

Natalia Bolek (:

So, and that person is really straight and she never chose like so emotional. So when she opened the box, she burst into tears because she was so happy. And this is like what? I love a, about the product, because I knew that she might feel emotions emotional, but she was so glad and happy that it was like, you know, so special that, and this is what I like when clients call me and tell me that someone's having a birthday and they wanted to surprise them.

Natalia Bolek (:

And we create something. We think about a good quote, which will, you know, harder to move. So I'm happy because I help someone, the person who orders is happy because it's making someone a very nice presence. And the only thing which is I miss is when the person opens the present and to see that emotions on the, on people's faces is this is what I'm like missing. But you know, after you have expanded, I'm not there anymore, but I have the positive feedbacks from my client's and sometimes it gets a little videos, have a little person and open unwrapping in the present and then they're is a box.

Natalia Bolek (:

And then people reactions about upper rhinitis as well. So all of these good emotions, which, you know, a positive way, it wipes, which are going and spreading with the world. It's just what keeps me going and what I love about why would I create?

Vicki Weinberg (:

That's a lovely and so special. So that's really lovely and your products are, I can totally see there so personalized and you know, you can see that they're made with so much love as well. So I will link to your website in the show notes that people can go away from it and take a look at them. Cause you can

completely see just from looking at the picture's how much care that goes into them is going to be done talking to you as well. So what for you is, so I have one final question, if that's okay, which is what would be your number one piece of advice for someone who wanted to start out now creating and selling their product,

Natalia Bolek (:

Never give up. It's like sometimes you have this voice telling us, Oh, we have those people around us. And they even had a lot of them or that's not going to work or do this for that much money or are you crazy? And it's like, you know, you have all these people with bad devices. It's just, don't listen to them, surround yourself, or network yourself with people who do similar stuff to yours. Listen to good advice. Sometimes if you have a person who's in a similar field, it may help you and tell you that you can do better pictures or you use better lightings or give you a small tips.

Natalia Bolek (:

You know, it's why you have to like sometimes network, I've met so many great people, why I'm doing what I'm doing, even though those people are selling different stuff, like clothes or a jewelry makers or that are into photography. Its so nice that I loved my journey through that. And And, I, I'm learning a lot as well. So you know, it was just never gave up and just put it on a piece of the note on this, like on your pictures and, and on your mirror and just, you know, keep going.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Brilliant advice. Thank you. And I also liked the piece you said about not, you know, listening to people who maybe have got your best interests at heart and can say, you know, you might want to improve this, but yes, just negativity or there's no place for that. I agree. There's no place for people who tell you that you can't succeed or all of those things. I just, I completely agree. Yeah. Well thank you so much for your time today. It has been really lovely to talk to you.

Natalia Bolek (:

Thank you very much for inviting me. No problem. Thank you for everything you shared. Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg (:

I really hope you enjoyed this conversation with Natalia and myself as always. I'd love to hear from you. You can get in touch Vicki@tiny chipmunk.com or you can find me on Instagram at VickiWeinbergproductcreation. If you've enjoyed this episode, please do consider subscribing. So you don't miss any future episodes. Thank you so much for being here and looking forward, speaking to you next week.