Today I’m talking with Lucy Herron, the founder of Sloafer, a women’s shoe brand that handmakes ballerina pumps with an all day sneaker comfort sole.
It’s a really powerful episode, as Lucy is incredibly articulate about the importance of valuing your product and yourself. Lucy explains how she has chosen to work with a factory that pays a fair wage, and why she is shunning fast fashion practices. Instead she has built a very successful business model creating limited batches of shoes, which are in demand, and regularly have waiting lists.
I found it really empowering, and if you have ever doubted how you price your products, this is the episode to listen to.
Listen in to hear Lucy share:
- An introduction to herself and her business (01:29)
- Her inspiration to create Sloafer (01:41)
- The journey from having the idea to getting the shoes made (04:19)
- Creating an in demand product, and minimising waste by having a wait list (06:15)
- The importance of working with a factory that pays a fair wage, and how this affects the price of the shoe (07:10)
- Managing seasonal ranges and restocks (08:46)
- Lessons in creating products in small batches (10:48)
- Communicating with customers on a waitlist (14:36)
- The importance of knowing and charging the value of your product, and avoiding the temptation to do deep discounts (16:04)
- Valuing yourself and your product (18:43)
- The negative impact of fast, cheap fashion (21:26)
- Her experiences seeking investment as a female business owner (23:45)
- Her number one piece of advice for other product creators (29:34)
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Transcript
Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea to Life podcast.
Speaker:This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling
Speaker:products or if you'd like to create your own product to sell.
Speaker:I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product creation coach and Amazon expert.
Speaker:Every week I share friendly, practical advice, as well as inspirational
Speaker:stories from small businesses.
Vicki Weinberg:Let's get started.
Vicki Weinberg:I am speaking with Lucy Herron, the founder of Sloafer is a women shoe
Vicki Weinberg:brand that hand makes ballerina pumps with an all day sneaker comfort soul.
Vicki Weinberg:So I had a really great conversation with Lucy.
Vicki Weinberg:We talked obviously a lot about her products, but one of the most fascinating
Vicki Weinberg:things we spoke about, for me anyway, was about the value of your products.
Vicki Weinberg:Lucy talks about the fact that her shoes are very, very expensive and she
Vicki Weinberg:is not apologetic about that and she charges for them what they're worth.
Vicki Weinberg:She's really transparent about her pricing, how much it costs
Vicki Weinberg:to actually have her shoes made.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, they're all ethically produced.
Vicki Weinberg:And yeah, I think this was a really, for me, it was really fascinating and
Vicki Weinberg:quite empowering actually to hear Lucy talk so confidently about her price
Vicki Weinberg:point, um, which I say is higher than a lot of the products that I speak about.
Vicki Weinberg:And yeah, I think you're going to find this hopefully really
Vicki Weinberg:interesting and really inspiring too.
Vicki Weinberg:So I would love now to introduce you to Lucy.
Vicki Weinberg:So, hi Lucy.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you so much for being here.
Lucy Herron:Thank you.
Vicki Weinberg:So can we start with you, please give an introduction to yourself,
Vicki Weinberg:your business, and what you sell?
Lucy Herron:Yeah.
Lucy Herron:So I'm Lucy Herron and I'm the co-founder of Sloafer.
Lucy Herron:Um, and my husband and I designed a ballet shoe, uh, slash sneaker,
Lucy Herron:and we sell online at sloafer.
Lucy Herron:com.
Vicki Weinberg:Amazing.
Vicki Weinberg:So let's start with what inspired you to create Sloafer?
Vicki Weinberg:Because I'd say a ballet crossed with a sneaker is pretty unique, isn't it?
Lucy Herron:It is, and that's the reason we started it.
Lucy Herron:Um, I feel like I'm kind of being dragged out of dragons den by security, shouting.
Lucy Herron:We have a U S P.
Lucy Herron:There's no one like us, but we are literally the only ballerina pump
Lucy Herron:that is a hybrid with a sneaker.
Lucy Herron:So a lot of ballet pumps try and be comfortable, but they, they aren't.
Lucy Herron:They kind of get one element, right.
Lucy Herron:They get the elegance right, but not the comfort.
Lucy Herron:And that's why we started the company because I have always worn ballet pumps.
Lucy Herron:I've always kind of gone down like the cheap ballet pump road and you can
Lucy Herron:kind of feel the floor through them.
Lucy Herron:And I kind of knew they weren't comfy, but I, I liked them, so I, I probably suffered
Lucy Herron:for years, um, with uncomfortable shoes.
Lucy Herron:And then I met my husband and he, um, loves trainers.
Lucy Herron:He's got so many trainers and we were going on a weekend break and
Lucy Herron:he was like, why can't you just pack properly and take a pair of
Lucy Herron:trainers for walking around all day?
Lucy Herron:Um, and at that point I was actually pregnant.
Lucy Herron:And, um, he was like, this is ridiculous.
Lucy Herron:You're going to be really uncomfortable.
Lucy Herron:And I was like, no, I'll be fine.
Lucy Herron:I'll be fine, I'll be fine.
Lucy Herron:And obviously I was really uncomfortable.
Lucy Herron:And so we got back and he, for my birthday, um, he gave me this pair
Lucy Herron:of shoes and they were a ballet pump with a so-called sneak and soul.
Lucy Herron:But there were so many things wrong with them.
Lucy Herron:They were really ugly and I felt really awful, but I hated those shoes.
Lucy Herron:Like, and it's funny, we just have a laugh about it now because we, we've
Lucy Herron:now got a company, but they were really ugly and they were really uncomfortable
Lucy Herron:and they were really expensive as well.
Lucy Herron:So I was like, wow, it's not just cheap shoes that hurt, it's
Lucy Herron:also like the expensive ones.
Lucy Herron:And so we saw a genuine gap in the market because we couldn't
Lucy Herron:find anything like it out there.
Lucy Herron:And then fast forward to being pregnant the second time, I was also back in
Lucy Herron:Italy, but this time wearing my Sloafers and I was super, super comfortable
Lucy Herron:because they've got, um, a sneaker soul.
Lucy Herron:So you, you look great and you feel comfortable all day.
Vicki Weinberg:That's amazing and I can definitely see the need for that because
Vicki Weinberg:I used to wear ballet pumps all the time, and then I got to, I can't remember
Vicki Weinberg:whether it was pregnancy or a certain age when I was just like, no, I'm going to
Vicki Weinberg:wear trainers because as much as I love how they look, it's just not comfy when
Vicki Weinberg:you are on your feet for a lot of time, you know, like those cardboard thin souls.
Vicki Weinberg:It's just, yeah.
Vicki Weinberg:They don't do really good.
Lucy Herron:Exactly.
Vicki Weinberg:So I can definitely see like, because trainers aren't
Vicki Weinberg:always smart enough and there there are those occasions where you're like,
Vicki Weinberg:oh, you know, I want to would be comfy, but my trainers won't quite cut it.
Vicki Weinberg:So I think this is just such an amazing idea.
Lucy Herron:Thank you.
Vicki Weinberg:So what happened?
Vicki Weinberg:So you had the idea of, you know, creating them.
Vicki Weinberg:So talk us through a little bit, if you don't mind, about what happened then.
Vicki Weinberg:So how you got from this idea, and it sounds like you had really clear vision
Vicki Weinberg:to actually having a finished product.
Lucy Herron:That's the problem.
Lucy Herron:You have really clear vision and it's really difficult trying to explain it,
Lucy Herron:but also even when you think you've explained it and you get a prototype back
Lucy Herron:and you're like, oh no, no, no, no, no.
Lucy Herron:That's really not what I meant.
Lucy Herron:And so we went on LinkedIn.
Lucy Herron:We found a footwear agent in Portugal and we didn't do like
Lucy Herron:a massive amount of research.
Lucy Herron:I've got to be completely honest.
Lucy Herron:We just kind of dived in and obviously that meant that we made loads of mistakes
Lucy Herron:and learned fast, but that's probably also quite a good thing in business.
Lucy Herron:Um, so we found an agent and we sent her some drawings and just said, look,
Lucy Herron:this is what we want them to be like.
Lucy Herron:Um, she sent a prototype back and at that point I was crushed.
Lucy Herron:I was like, I hate it.
Lucy Herron:I don't want to.
Lucy Herron:I just, it's horrible.
Lucy Herron:I hate it.
Lucy Herron:And, uh, my husband was like, get on with it.
Lucy Herron:We've got to just improve it and make it better.
Lucy Herron:And so we bend off that agent because she just said, oh, you, it can't be done.
Lucy Herron:It can't be done.
Lucy Herron:Everything was no.
Lucy Herron:And I was kind of happy to say no for an answer because I was like,
Lucy Herron:oh, I just think it's a stupid idea.
Lucy Herron:And I kind of got the fear about starting a business and felt like a fraud.
Lucy Herron:And my husband was like, no, no, no, let's keep going.
Lucy Herron:Um, and so yeah, we found another factory in Spain, um, and we got an amazing shoe.
Lucy Herron:Kind of four or five or attempts later, I was holding this shoe in
Lucy Herron:my hands and I was like, oh, wow.
Lucy Herron:Like, whoa, this, this is weird now because this is exactly what we wanted.
Lucy Herron:So there was a lot of going back and.
Lucy Herron:And then we found, um, a place that can make our shoes.
Lucy Herron:And then kind of the rest is history really.
Lucy Herron:We did actually move factory again, um, to get a better price point and
Lucy Herron:someone that could produce smaller quantities because obviously we don't
Lucy Herron:want to be kind of like mass produced and, you know, thousands and thousands
Lucy Herron:and thousands of, of the same pair.
Lucy Herron:The good thing about Sloafer is they're handmade and we do batches
Lucy Herron:and we have a massive waiting list and there's a lot demand.
Lucy Herron:And so that's kind of, we wanted to be, um, a bit less wasteful
Lucy Herron:and we don't have like seasons.
Lucy Herron:We don't have end season sales.
Lucy Herron:Our shoes are our shoes and our shoes, and you get them or you don't get them.
Lucy Herron:Um, and so now it's just like a creative process.
Lucy Herron:So the, the bulk of the shoe is done.
Lucy Herron:We're always looking for ways to kind of tweak it and make it a
Lucy Herron:little more, you know, a little bit more comfortable, a little bit more
Lucy Herron:flexible, but we're really happy with, um, the feel of it and the look of it.
Lucy Herron:And so, yeah, now it just comes down to having a bit of fun with, um,
Lucy Herron:leathers and animal prints and neons and just putting together, um, what
Lucy Herron:you see as the finished product.
Vicki Weinberg:That sounds amazing and I, I really like what you said
Vicki Weinberg:about the way you produce themselves.
Vicki Weinberg:So are they, so they, they're not made to order, they're
Vicki Weinberg:small batches, is that right?
Lucy Herron:Yeah.
Vicki Weinberg:So you're not making them as people order them,
Vicki Weinberg:but that sounds really good.
Vicki Weinberg:So I guess there's a lot less waste involved.
Lucy Herron:Yeah, there is.
Lucy Herron:I mean, look, it's, it's a really, really expensive business to, to be in.
Lucy Herron:It's very expensive on the manufacturing side because we work
Lucy Herron:with factories that pay a fair wage.
Lucy Herron:And so I think if you're going to spend seven pounds on a pair of pumps you know
Lucy Herron:that someone is being exploited somewhere.
Lucy Herron:And so yes, our shoes are expensive.
Lucy Herron:There's no way of of getting around that, but they're handmade and
Lucy Herron:they're really comfortable and they last for a really, really long time.
Lucy Herron:So they are an investment piece.
Lucy Herron:Obviously in recognition of the fact that they are an investment piece, we
Lucy Herron:do some really solid, cool colours.
Lucy Herron:So for a look, people, they're like, oh wow, I love the neon ones.
Lucy Herron:They're so bright, they're so amazing.
Lucy Herron:But if you're going to spend nearly 200 pounds on a pair of shoes, I
Lucy Herron:also understand why you're like, I can't wear that every day.
Lucy Herron:So you've got to wear a blush colour or a black or a navy.
Lucy Herron:And so we have a lot of people who wear our shoes every day to work because
Lucy Herron:they're kind of sensible, quote unquote.
Lucy Herron:Then we also have people who are like, oh my God, I love glitter and
Lucy Herron:sparkle and neon and animal print.
Lucy Herron:And so yeah, we sell to loads of different people.
Lucy Herron:It's like, it's almost like you can kind of see like people's
Lucy Herron:personalities coming across with the shoes that they pick, because we've
Lucy Herron:got something to, to suit everyone.
Lucy Herron:But yeah, we produce about 30 at a time, so I've.
Lucy Herron:You know, in some styles I've, I've got 30, and then in some styles I've got, you
Lucy Herron:know, next to nothing and they sell out.
Lucy Herron:And I think people are kind of used to the way we work now.
Lucy Herron:So as soon as we announce we've got new stock coming in, I sell out pretty much
Lucy Herron:within 48 hours because people have been waiting for them for, for so long.
Lucy Herron:So yeah, it's, that's, that's kind of how we work.
Vicki Weinberg:And does that mean that, so does every color or style,
Vicki Weinberg:is every color or style available once or is it more like, okay, now
Vicki Weinberg:I've got this one in stock and then in a few weeks you have another one?
Vicki Weinberg:Is that how it works?
Lucy Herron:Yeah, so we do have full restock at the end of our season.
Lucy Herron:So typically people don't really buy kind of October, November,
Lucy Herron:December, January, February.
Lucy Herron:And then obviously, um, people start thinking about the spring, don't they?
Lucy Herron:They're so fed up with the winter that by March, even though it's still a little
Lucy Herron:bit cold, they're like, you know what?
Lucy Herron:Let's just start thinking about the summer.
Lucy Herron:So we do a full restock so that when we start selling again, you know, and we're
Lucy Herron:really busy in the spring, we've got every style, every colour, um, we've just
Lucy Herron:introduced a wide fit in some of our shoes and obviously, Really took us by surprise.
Lucy Herron:Um, we only had 10 and I sold eight on the first day.
Lucy Herron:So I was like, oh god, I should have got some more.
Lucy Herron:Um, so we're always trying to like expand but be sensible about it.
Lucy Herron:So yeah, I'm all stocked up and ready to go for the spring season now.
Vicki Weinberg:That's amazing.
Vicki Weinberg:So I'm just, I love.
Vicki Weinberg:That's so interesting.
Vicki Weinberg:I've never spoken to anyone who does it like that.
Vicki Weinberg:So I guess over the winter months, is it just a case of you have what
Vicki Weinberg:you have, so if someone went on your website in December, you have what
Vicki Weinberg:you have in December, and then if they want something specific, they
Vicki Weinberg:may have to wait until you restock?
Lucy Herron:So we we're fully, we're fully stocked.
Lucy Herron:So we aim to be fully stocked by the time things quieten down.
Lucy Herron:So I guess our off season, you could say is kind of from October the first.
Lucy Herron:It's quite funny.
Lucy Herron:You can see it literally go off a cliff because people are, you
Lucy Herron:know, thinking about winter boots and big socks and trainers doing
Lucy Herron:the school run and stuff like that.
Lucy Herron:So actually December's a great time to buy because I've got everything.
Lucy Herron:But if you come to me in May and you're like, oh, I'm looking for a really
Lucy Herron:delicate blush coloured shoe this spring, I'm like, sorry, I probably sold out.
Lucy Herron:Um, yeah, we we're very, very busy from about March.
Vicki Weinberg:Okay, so I misunderstood.
Vicki Weinberg:I thought you were fully stocked in March, but that makes sense.
Vicki Weinberg:So actually if someone wants something specific, now is a really great time
Vicki Weinberg:to go and have a look, isn't it?
Lucy Herron:Yeah.
Lucy Herron:Yeah.
Vicki Weinberg:Oh, that is really interesting.
Vicki Weinberg:And I guess the other thing with the small batches is it gives you a chance
Vicki Weinberg:to see what sells and what doesn't.
Lucy Herron:Yeah.
Lucy Herron:To be honest, like we've made , we've made a few bad choices, and yeah,
Lucy Herron:you, you see the ones that fly off the shelves and you see the ones that don't.
Lucy Herron:And I think the temptation is to be like, oh God, I better get them on sale.
Lucy Herron:Some money's better than no money.
Lucy Herron:Uh, You know, we, we can't afford to do that.
Lucy Herron:Our profit margins are really slim and we are not, we're not going to do that.
Lucy Herron:So we do have some colours that do much better than others.
Lucy Herron:But yeah, there seems to be like a, it is generally, most styles
Lucy Herron:appeal because, you know, as I said earlier, we've got some really basic
Lucy Herron:sort of wardrobe staples that will last forever and go with everything.
Lucy Herron:And then we've got some really cool kind of neon animal
Lucy Herron:print ones, sparkles, glitter.
Lucy Herron:So there's kind of something that suits everyone.
Lucy Herron:So it's always quite interesting to, to see what happens when my phone like, does
Lucy Herron:the cherching and I look and I'm like, oh, I wonder what they're going to go for.
Lucy Herron:It's, it's always quite interesting seeing what people.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, that is.
Vicki Weinberg:And are you tempted, the ones that do sell out time after time, are you
Vicki Weinberg:tempted to order more of those or are you sticking to the small batches for now?
Lucy Herron:Yeah, well we still stick to small batches, um, because
Lucy Herron:we're quite a fast cash flow business, and so we have a high turnover.
Lucy Herron:But obviously as you can imagine, our manufacturing costs are high.
Lucy Herron:Our marketing costs are high.
Lucy Herron:We're always getting, you know, hit with invoices, and it can be a bit scary in
Lucy Herron:our downtime as well because obviously we, we don't have the money coming
Lucy Herron:in, but we've got the money going out.
Lucy Herron:So we do have kind of like hero pieces, which are the shoes that
Lucy Herron:just sell out the whole time.
Lucy Herron:But we have to be careful not to let them cannibalize the whole of the range.
Lucy Herron:And so I think what we find is, Where I might produce, you know, 30 to 50,
Lucy Herron:um, of, of the black in the Navy, I'll only produce 30 of like the animal
Lucy Herron:print with neon because I know that I could produce a hundred and I would
Lucy Herron:still sell out, but then everything else will be left on the shelf.
Lucy Herron:So it is just kind of, it, it's just trying to keep.
Lucy Herron:You know, the idea that we've got what we've got when they're gone, they're gone.
Lucy Herron:And also, like with leather, you can, it can go out of stock really quickly
Lucy Herron:because it's, it's a natural product.
Lucy Herron:And so no two sort of sheets of leather are going to be the same.
Lucy Herron:And so you can look and say, oh, I love that Leo Print.
Lucy Herron:And I love that Dalmatian print.
Lucy Herron:And actually the suppier may just suddenly discontinue it, and
Lucy Herron:then we'll get another leopard.
Lucy Herron:But it'll be completely different.
Lucy Herron:And obviously you roll out a massive piece of leather that is like metres
Lucy Herron:and metres and metres, you know, large.
Lucy Herron:But then when it's actually on a shoe, particularly a little
Lucy Herron:sort of a smaller sized shoe, you are like, wow, is that the same.
Lucy Herron:It looks really, really different.
Lucy Herron:And so, the shoes can always end up looking slightly different.
Lucy Herron:And so yeah, we do kind of 30 here, 30 there, um, and see what happens.
Lucy Herron:And the, the frustration is, I got some samples back actually the other day.
Lucy Herron:And I thought they were going to be amazing and I approved the leather and
Lucy Herron:I was like, this is going to be lovely, perfect for spring, not losing any time.
Lucy Herron:And then it arrived and I was like, ah, looks a little bit too dark.
Lucy Herron:I didn't want it to be pink pink.
Lucy Herron:I wanted it to be neutral.
Lucy Herron:But you go from, you scaled down and once it's on the shoe, it
Lucy Herron:ends up looking really different.
Lucy Herron:So yeah, I've got to tweak that and, and find a, a slightly
Lucy Herron:lighter coloured leather, so it will possibly be ready for spring.
Lucy Herron:I'm kind of ready when I'm ready.
Lucy Herron:That's, that's what I've realized, that there, there are so many variables
Lucy Herron:that you can't really stress about it.
Lucy Herron:And I think the good thing is we don't have like the new season coming soon.
Lucy Herron:Because if I said that, I'd then have to go, sorry, we're
Lucy Herron:going to be three weeks late.
Lucy Herron:So we are very kind of relaxed about things.
Lucy Herron:They happen when they have been.
Vicki Weinberg:That's a really good, that's a really good
Vicki Weinberg:attitude to have, I think.
Vicki Weinberg:But do you struggle to, or to communicate this to customers?
Vicki Weinberg:Because for customers this is a different way of shopping, isn't it?
Vicki Weinberg:That they're small batches.
Vicki Weinberg:When you have what you have, when it's gone, it's gone.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, how do you get that message across?
Vicki Weinberg:To your customers?
Lucy Herron:I'm just really honest.
Lucy Herron:I tell them like I've just told you, um, you know, we have like a waiting list
Lucy Herron:function, so someone will say, can you email me when this is back in stock.
Lucy Herron:And I'll email them and say, sorry it's not coming back
Lucy Herron:until the end of next year.
Lucy Herron:And they're like, oh wow, okay.
Lucy Herron:So then typically they'll buy something else and then when I email
Lucy Herron:them, they're in such a rush because a lot of our shoes do stick in your
Lucy Herron:head because they're quite vibrant.
Lucy Herron:And so I sit back, it's quite funny, I love it when I've got a restock of like
Lucy Herron:my really bright ones and I'll sit back and I think the record, I sent out an
Lucy Herron:email to everyone who said, they're here and my phone pinged three minutes later.
Lucy Herron:And when we did a restock of the Dalmatian with the neon, I sold a
Lucy Herron:pair every three minutes for an hour.
Lucy Herron:And I was screaming, excited.
Lucy Herron:It was so funny.
Lucy Herron:It was just like dinging, dinging.
Lucy Herron:And then I sold them all.
Lucy Herron:So I was like, oh God, maybe I should have got some more.
Lucy Herron:But then obviously that goes back to what I was saying, that you know,
Lucy Herron:we're never going to have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds for all
Lucy Herron:of the reasons that I've given.
Vicki Weinberg:I think that's nicer though, in a way.
Vicki Weinberg:Because it also kind of makes it not, I don't want to use the word
Vicki Weinberg:exclusive, that's not the right word, but it's, it's kind of nice that
Vicki Weinberg:it's something that, it's something like a special purchase, isn't it?
Lucy Herron:Yeah.
Lucy Herron:Yeah.
Lucy Herron:It's a, it definitely is.
Lucy Herron:And I'm not, yeah.
Lucy Herron:I'm never going to be flipent and say, oh no, it's an every day thing.
Lucy Herron:It's not an every day thing.
Lucy Herron:They're nearly 200 pounds.
Lucy Herron:Is this something that you have to think about?
Lucy Herron:They're well made.
Lucy Herron:They're made by people who are paid properly.
Lucy Herron:And they are made to last, like they're really, really, really good quality.
Lucy Herron:And it's funny because I think my sort of reluctance was, I guess
Lucy Herron:coming at this, I was always quite cautious about how I priced stuff.
Lucy Herron:Because I was like, no, no, no, you, you can't ask people to spend that much money.
Lucy Herron:But then we did loads of research and we were like, there are
Lucy Herron:companies out there that are charging 500 pounds for a pair of pumps.
Lucy Herron:And I can tell you now, they are not as well made and you can
Lucy Herron:still feel the floor through them.
Lucy Herron:So yeah, it has taken a little while.
Lucy Herron:I'm not, by my nature, I don't have pound signs ringing, and so my temptation was to
Lucy Herron:try and price them lower, but we couldn't, we could, we couldn't make a profit.
Lucy Herron:We couldn't keep up.
Lucy Herron:We couldn't produce if I set the price too low.
Lucy Herron:And so I think it is just this constant argument.
Lucy Herron:It's like, are they expensive or are they overpriced?
Lucy Herron:And what I can say is they're not overpriced because I offer a breakdown.
Lucy Herron:I've done it when people have kind of been a little bit picky, you know, like kind
Lucy Herron:of keyboard warriors and they see our ads and they're like, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Lucy Herron:I can get these for three pounds in prime market.
Lucy Herron:And it's like, okay, go on then.
Lucy Herron:Because you know, I can't, I can't put my energy into like
Lucy Herron:changing hearts and minds.
Lucy Herron:Like if you want to shop in prime market, that's fine.
Lucy Herron:I'm not going to be preachy about it, but here's my breakdown.
Lucy Herron:Here's what the leather costs, here's what the manufacturing costs, and
Lucy Herron:then the, the choice is yours really.
Lucy Herron:But we're, we're really upfront about everything, about costs, about the
Lucy Herron:fact that we don't produce a lot, about the fact that you might love
Lucy Herron:these shoes, but no, sorry, I'm not going to get them for nine months.
Lucy Herron:Yeah.
Lucy Herron:That's kind of, that's kind of how, how we approach it.
Vicki Weinberg:I really like that because I think there's such a temptation
Vicki Weinberg:to either, underprice your products because you're scared of charging too
Vicki Weinberg:much or almost be apologetic about it.
Vicki Weinberg:Like, I'm really sorry that you know that I'm charging you this, but I really love
Vicki Weinberg:the fact that you can stand behind your pricing and yet because you know your
Vicki Weinberg:numbers and you're really transparent about it, I really love that because
Vicki Weinberg:it, it, it, it's really scary asking someone to pay you for anything, isn't it?
Vicki Weinberg:And I think whether you set a product or a service, there's always a temptation
Vicki Weinberg:to go there, a little bit cheaper just to make the other person feel
Vicki Weinberg:a bit better, but yeah, I've, I've, hopefully, I really hope people find
Vicki Weinberg:that inspiring what you've just said, Lucy, because you know what your products
Vicki Weinberg:are worth, and it doesn't sound like you've second guessed yourself at all.
Vicki Weinberg:You've kind of gone, okay, this is what I spend, and obviously you are a business.
Vicki Weinberg:You have to make a profit.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, I really like that.
Lucy Herron:Thank you.
Lucy Herron:I mean, it comes from years of underpricing, like prior to Sloafer.
Lucy Herron:It comes of like almost years of underpricing myself because I've
Lucy Herron:run my own sort of my own thing.
Lucy Herron:It's a a not-for-profit and I remember, you know, going and
Lucy Herron:giving talks in Manchester because it would be great exposure.
Lucy Herron:I remember spending like a hundred pounds on a train ticket and standing
Lucy Herron:there and talking to seven people for an hour and that's like my whole day gone.
Lucy Herron:My money gone and I'm like, I've got nothing from it.
Lucy Herron:And I got nothing from it.
Lucy Herron:And actually my husband kept saying, you've got to say no more.
Lucy Herron:And I was like, I can't.
Lucy Herron:I can't.
Lucy Herron:I can't.
Lucy Herron:I can't.
Lucy Herron:And so I've, I've suggested everything for years and it's so nice.
Lucy Herron:Just going, no, doesn't suit me.
Lucy Herron:No.
Lucy Herron:Not doing it.
Lucy Herron:Not doing it.
Lucy Herron:And I think that's the headspace you've got to get yourself
Lucy Herron:into for pricing stuff.
Lucy Herron:Because at one stage I was running one charity, which is like my
Lucy Herron:not-for-profit that can do 15 years.
Lucy Herron:And getting paid in exposure, which I kind of like learned my lesson
Lucy Herron:eventually, but at one stage we were running like a, a not-for-profit
Lucy Herron:for people who like nice shoes.
Lucy Herron:And we were like, this is insane.
Lucy Herron:And what we found is that when we increased the prices massively,
Lucy Herron:but it wasn't that we increased it massively for no reason.
Lucy Herron:We put the prices up to where they should be.
Lucy Herron:We didn't lose any customers, we just got different customers.
Lucy Herron:It's not about underpricing stuff because someone will always buy your shoes.
Lucy Herron:You've just got to find the right people.
Lucy Herron:And so it there, there's been a lot of, a lot of kind of work
Lucy Herron:to get my own head around this.
Lucy Herron:Behind the scenes, so I sound like I'm totally okay about it, but this has
Lucy Herron:been like a long time in the making and it's just realizing that, you know,
Lucy Herron:people out there will spend thousands of pounds on the most ridiculous of things.
Lucy Herron:So if you're charging nearly 200 pounds for a pair of hand-made shoes,
Lucy Herron:yeah, they're not for people that want 10 pound fast fashion, but
Lucy Herron:they're also, I've had loads of people going, oh, they're quite affordable.
Lucy Herron:And I'm like, ha.
Lucy Herron:Yes.
Lucy Herron:Ok.
Lucy Herron:And yeah.
Lucy Herron:So there, there are so many people out there.
Lucy Herron:You just got to find the right people for your price point.
Vicki Weinberg:That.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah, I think you're right.
Vicki Weinberg:And I think a lot of us do get there eventually.
Vicki Weinberg:It's just a shame we spend all those years or months or whatever it is,
Vicki Weinberg:not making money in the process.
Vicki Weinberg:Because I've definitely done it.
Vicki Weinberg:I've definitely, with services I've offered underpriced because
Vicki Weinberg:I've just been a little bit scared of asking for more money.
Vicki Weinberg:And I think there's, it's just like knowing the value of you yourself and for
Vicki Weinberg:you knowing the value of your product.
Vicki Weinberg:And I think as people who are looking for ethically made products,
Vicki Weinberg:um, are happy to pay a bit more.
Vicki Weinberg:And I, I guess that's probably at least some of your customer bases,
Vicki Weinberg:people who want to shop ethically because, and they know that shopping
Vicki Weinberg:ethically means people are being treated well, paid well, you're therefore
Vicki Weinberg:going to pay more for that product.
Lucy Herron:Yeah, definitely.
Lucy Herron:Definitely.
Lucy Herron:I mean, i.
Lucy Herron:I've definitely bought into the whole, oh, I need a new top and I'll just
Lucy Herron:buy one from somewhere horrific, and I won't name them, you know, in my
Lucy Herron:twenties and I guess early thirties.
Lucy Herron:And I literally read one book and it completely changed sort of my attitude.
Lucy Herron:It was, um, consumed by AliBaba and I kind of thought, oh my God.
Lucy Herron:So suddenly realized that at the age of 40, which is like embarrassingly
Lucy Herron:late, I just kind of realized like you only ever see the face of it.
Lucy Herron:You just go into a shop and buy what you want and you don't
Lucy Herron:realize what's going on behind the scenes and I know what you mean.
Lucy Herron:Because now I'm like, oh, I could do with a couple of, you know, couple of
Lucy Herron:white t-shirts and you're like, oh, they're really great but they're five
Lucy Herron:pounds from, you know, X, Y, and Z.
Lucy Herron:And you think, oh, okay.
Lucy Herron:Oh, right now I, now I get why it's five pounds.
Lucy Herron:And I know that sounds like, oh, how can you be so stupid?
Lucy Herron:How can you be so naive?
Lucy Herron:But I honestly think people just, you are busy, you don't
Lucy Herron:really think about everything.
Lucy Herron:But once your eyes have been open to it, then I think it does change.
Lucy Herron:So I can, I can honestly say, I really consciously have, have not,
Lucy Herron:I've, I've avoided a whole load of shops and I now question like, do
Lucy Herron:I really, really, really need this?
Lucy Herron:And even if I'm like, oh, I don't need it, but I want it, I still pick my, my want,
Lucy Herron:quote unquote from a, a better place.
Lucy Herron:So, yeah, I know, I know that sounds a bit, I know like if I'd heard
Lucy Herron:someone say that to you two, three years ago, I'd be like, oh, at you.
Lucy Herron:But you know, it just, it's just that wisdom, I guess, from, you
Lucy Herron:know, and Instagram's great because you have access to so many people in
Lucy Herron:the fashion world that can help you make the right sort of decisions.
Lucy Herron:And obviously that's something that we try to kind of like implement
Lucy Herron:in our, in our business now.
Vicki Weinberg:That's great.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you.
Vicki Weinberg:And I think you're right.
Vicki Weinberg:I'm, I'm exactly the same, especially in terms of do I actually need this or
Vicki Weinberg:am I just being brought into the whole consumerism thing of we need more stuff.
Vicki Weinberg:And I do think that, I do think things are going in that direction, but I think
Vicki Weinberg:like you, I was, yeah, probably late thirties, 40 before I kind of got there.
Vicki Weinberg:And it's a shame, you know, it took so long.
Vicki Weinberg:But I think things are definitely going the right direction.
Lucy Herron:Yeah, I think so.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, I'm really conscious of time, but there's one more thing I'd
Vicki Weinberg:really like to touch on, if that's okay Lucy, which is, um, investment and seeking
Vicki Weinberg:investment and particularly seeking investment as a female business owner.
Vicki Weinberg:I had, I did a, um, an episode quite a while ago now all about seeking investment
Vicki Weinberg:and I know that for women it can be more challenging than it is for men.
Vicki Weinberg:We obviously haven't got loads of time to talk about this, but I'd
Vicki Weinberg:love to just know a little bit about your experience if that's okay?
Lucy Herron:My experience has been awful.
Lucy Herron:I've sat, uh, at my kitchen table with absolute snake oil merchants, and I'm
Lucy Herron:sorry to say it, but it's just there is a certain type of male investor and, um,
Lucy Herron:before anyone like beats me around the head with it, yes, I know not all men,
Lucy Herron:not all investors, but um, you know, there's a certain type, and I've had my
Lucy Herron:business plan ripped up in front of me.
Lucy Herron:I've had them draw lines through it.
Lucy Herron:I've had them tell me that I shouldn't be online and that I should open a shop on
Lucy Herron:Bond Street, which I just, I, I just had to shut off and glaze over and just smile
Lucy Herron:and nod and just wait for him to finish and, and kind of get out of my house.
Lucy Herron:Um, I've had people telling me that, um, my products are mediocre, uh, and that
Lucy Herron:my business plan is weak, all with the intention of undervaluing my company so
Lucy Herron:that they can buy 90% of it for 10 grand and make me feel like I'm still involved
Lucy Herron:and pull the rug from underneath me.
Lucy Herron:So I've had two really bad experiences with would be male investors, and
Lucy Herron:I made a vow, never, ever to work with male investors again, unless we
Lucy Herron:can have a conversation where I can get to the end of my sentence before
Lucy Herron:they start banging on the table and telling me I'm wrong, and I'm more
Lucy Herron:than happy with everything I've set up.
Lucy Herron:I'm more than happy to defer to people who know more than me.
Lucy Herron:But I find that in this business, when you're looking for investment,
Lucy Herron:you attract a certain type.
Lucy Herron:They don't want to give you any credit.
Lucy Herron:They don't want to value you because they want a bargain and they want to take over.
Lucy Herron:And I've kind of had enough of being bulldozed over.
Lucy Herron:So actually we are in communication with, um, having said everything I've said a
Lucy Herron:male investor, but my bad experiences have made me really, really forthright
Lucy Herron:and I'm like, I have a business plan.
Lucy Herron:I will be presenting it.
Lucy Herron:I will take questions at the end, and I'm so not like that.
Lucy Herron:I'm, I'm so not like that, but I've got really good at shutting down
Lucy Herron:all of the objections that people have because I know it's a game.
Lucy Herron:I know it's a game, and I know they're trying to get my
Lucy Herron:company for next to nothing.
Lucy Herron:And that's not happening because we've put our savings into it.
Lucy Herron:We've put so much of ourselves into it.
Lucy Herron:I'm damned if I'm going to get into bed with the wrong person.
Lucy Herron:I'd rather have no company at all.
Lucy Herron:So yeah, I definitely think women are the way forward because I think
Lucy Herron:we are naturally less aggressive.
Lucy Herron:And that's not to say that we are not assertive.
Lucy Herron:That's not to say that we are not good at what we do.
Lucy Herron:I just feel like there's a slightly better approach when you speak to women.
Lucy Herron:And yes, there are some great men out there and there are
Lucy Herron:some awful women out there.
Lucy Herron:And that's not the, the purpose of the conversation, but I generally find
Lucy Herron:you feel like you are working with a colleague, with a team member when
Lucy Herron:you speak to a female investor and they want to get to know you, they
Lucy Herron:want to get to know the business.
Lucy Herron:Whereas with the men that I've spoken to, um, I've just been left with a
Lucy Herron:really sort of bad impression, but with all bad experiences, it's taught
Lucy Herron:me a lot and so I'm going into every conversation I have now with my eyes
Lucy Herron:wide open, and I think you've just got to kind of not be afraid of saying no.
Lucy Herron:So, yeah, you know, if, if we can't get investment on good terms,
Lucy Herron:then we will spin it off and we will go for attempt number four.
Lucy Herron:But I think you just, you just can't be bulldozed.
Lucy Herron:And I think, you know, stereotypes kind of there for a reason.
Lucy Herron:So I'm always quite mindful.
Lucy Herron:If a male investor comes to me now, because I have found from my experience
Lucy Herron:that, you know, there's, there's a fairly aggressive approach and that isn't for me.
Lucy Herron:So yeah fingers crossed.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah.
Vicki Weinberg:I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you.
Vicki Weinberg:I'm sorry.
Vicki Weinberg:Sorry you've had such bad experiences and I hope you didn't mind sharing that.
Vicki Weinberg:I just think it's good not to put anybody off because I think what's
Vicki Weinberg:really reassuring is you're saying that despite having had some bad experiences,
Vicki Weinberg:you're still looking for investment.
Lucy Herron:Yeah.
Vicki Weinberg:And it sounds like you just, you know, you're really clear that
Vicki Weinberg:it needs to be a certain way on your terms, and I do think that's good for
Vicki Weinberg:people to hear because I think investments scary as it is, but it's just, I think
Vicki Weinberg:what I hope people take from this is what you said about just knowing your
Vicki Weinberg:worth and standing your ground and not going for the first thing that someone
Vicki Weinberg:offers you just because you're flattered that you know they've, they've asked.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah.
Vicki Weinberg:And just a theme I've got from this whole thing speaking to you,
Vicki Weinberg:Lucy, is you really seem to know your worth, your product's worth.
Vicki Weinberg:And I think that, I think that's really inspiring actually.
Lucy Herron:Thank you.
Lucy Herron:No, it's been really good to, to chat about it and yeah, I'm always
Lucy Herron:happy to kind of share information and be a sounding board, like
Lucy Herron:we've got so much stuff wrong.
Lucy Herron:Um, I almost think it's a, it's a waste not to share it.
Lucy Herron:So if I can make my balls ups and, and share them, then you know, hopefully
Lucy Herron:other people will, will learn from that.
Lucy Herron:I'm definitely better to learn from, in, in as much as all the
Lucy Herron:stuff I've got wrong, I'm still working on getting everything right.
Lucy Herron:But, um, yeah, I think we need to kind of support each other and look out for
Lucy Herron:each other and not be so, you know, guarded with all our information.
Lucy Herron:There's stuff that you need to keep close to your chest, but I think
Lucy Herron:it's so much better to just kind of be collaborative and, and helpful.
Lucy Herron:So yeah, that's, that's kind of my, my offer going forward.
Lucy Herron:If anyone needs to talk about it, I'm, I'm just a phone call away.
Vicki Weinberg:Oh, that's amazing.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you so much.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, yeah, and I, I'm think you will get taken up on that, I'm sure.
Vicki Weinberg:Um, so I'm going looking at time.
Vicki Weinberg:One more minute.
Vicki Weinberg:I've got one final question, and actually, based on what you've just said, I think
Vicki Weinberg:this tied in beautifully, is what is the number one piece of advice you'd like
Vicki Weinberg:to give to other people listening today?
Vicki Weinberg:What's the one thing you want people to know?
Lucy Herron:Always trying to do everything yourself first.
Lucy Herron:Don't put yourself in the bin and pay someone to do something.
Lucy Herron:Try your social media.
Lucy Herron:Try your content, try your photography, try designing stuff, because we spent so
Lucy Herron:much money on other people doing stuff that I look back and I'm like, oh my
Lucy Herron:God, I so could have done that myself.
Lucy Herron:Try everything yourself before you pay someone else to do it.
Vicki Weinberg:That makes sense.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you.
Vicki Weinberg:I also think it makes sense because once you are looking for someone else to do
Vicki Weinberg:it, you can't even know what you want.
Vicki Weinberg:So I've got a good example for me would be this podcast, I'm going
Vicki Weinberg:to try and outsource the editing, but because I've done it myself for
Vicki Weinberg:three years, I know how it should be.
Vicki Weinberg:I know how long it should take.
Vicki Weinberg:All of those little things that actually when if you just outsource from the start.
Vicki Weinberg:And I'm a big fan of outsourcing, by the way.
Vicki Weinberg:Yeah.
Vicki Weinberg:I think a big problem is you just don't know how things should be.
Vicki Weinberg:Could be.
Vicki Weinberg:Um.
Vicki Weinberg:You should be paying how long a job should take.
Vicki Weinberg:So I think having all of that data yourself is so useful.
Lucy Herron:Exactly.
Lucy Herron:Exactly.
Vicki Weinberg:That's brilliant.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you so much, Lucy.
Vicki Weinberg:So I'm going to link to your website in the show notes so people can
Vicki Weinberg:go and take a look at the shoes.
Lucy Herron:Thank you.
Lucy Herron:I really hope, uh, everyone likes our shoes.
Lucy Herron:And if you got any questions about, um, what we've got in stock or sizing
Lucy Herron:questions, just yeah, ping me an email.
Vicki Weinberg:Oh, thank you so much.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you.
Vicki Weinberg:It's really good to speak to you.
Vicki Weinberg:Thank you so much for listening right to the end of this episode.
Vicki Weinberg:Do remember that you can get the full back catalogue and lots of free resources
Vicki Weinberg:on my website, vicki weinberg.com.
Vicki Weinberg:Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it,
Vicki Weinberg:and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful.