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Today I’m talking with Lucy Herron, the founder of Sloafer, a women’s shoe brand that handmakes ballerina pumps with an all day sneaker comfort sole.

It’s a really powerful episode, as Lucy is incredibly articulate about the importance of valuing your product and yourself. Lucy explains how she has chosen to work with a factory that pays a fair wage, and why she is shunning fast fashion practices. Instead she has built a very successful business model creating limited batches of shoes, which are in demand, and regularly have waiting lists.

I found it really empowering, and if you have ever doubted how you price your products, this is the episode to listen to. 

Listen in to hear Lucy share:

  • An introduction to herself and her business (01:29)
  • Her inspiration to create Sloafer (01:41)
  • The journey from having the idea to getting the shoes made (04:19)
  • Creating an in demand product, and minimising waste by having a wait list (06:15)
  • The importance of working with a factory that pays a fair wage, and how this affects the price of the shoe (07:10)
  • Managing seasonal ranges and restocks (08:46)
  • Lessons in creating products in small batches (10:48)
  • Communicating with customers on a waitlist (14:36)
  • The importance of knowing and charging the value of your product, and avoiding the temptation to do deep discounts (16:04)
  • Valuing yourself and your product (18:43)
  • The negative impact of fast, cheap fashion (21:26)
  • Her experiences seeking investment as a female business owner (23:45)
  • Her number one piece of advice for other product creators (29:34)

USEFUL RESOURCES:

Sloafer Website

Sloafer Facebook

Sloafer Instagram

Lucy Herron LinkedIn

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Transcript
Speaker:

Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea to Life podcast.

Speaker:

This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling

Speaker:

products or if you'd like to create your own product to sell.

Speaker:

I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product creation coach and Amazon expert.

Speaker:

Every week I share friendly, practical advice, as well as inspirational

Speaker:

stories from small businesses.

Vicki Weinberg:

Let's get started.

Vicki Weinberg:

I am speaking with Lucy Herron, the founder of Sloafer is a women shoe

Vicki Weinberg:

brand that hand makes ballerina pumps with an all day sneaker comfort soul.

Vicki Weinberg:

So I had a really great conversation with Lucy.

Vicki Weinberg:

We talked obviously a lot about her products, but one of the most fascinating

Vicki Weinberg:

things we spoke about, for me anyway, was about the value of your products.

Vicki Weinberg:

Lucy talks about the fact that her shoes are very, very expensive and she

Vicki Weinberg:

is not apologetic about that and she charges for them what they're worth.

Vicki Weinberg:

She's really transparent about her pricing, how much it costs

Vicki Weinberg:

to actually have her shoes made.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, they're all ethically produced.

Vicki Weinberg:

And yeah, I think this was a really, for me, it was really fascinating and

Vicki Weinberg:

quite empowering actually to hear Lucy talk so confidently about her price

Vicki Weinberg:

point, um, which I say is higher than a lot of the products that I speak about.

Vicki Weinberg:

And yeah, I think you're going to find this hopefully really

Vicki Weinberg:

interesting and really inspiring too.

Vicki Weinberg:

So I would love now to introduce you to Lucy.

Vicki Weinberg:

So, hi Lucy.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you so much for being here.

Lucy Herron:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

So can we start with you, please give an introduction to yourself,

Vicki Weinberg:

your business, and what you sell?

Lucy Herron:

Yeah.

Lucy Herron:

So I'm Lucy Herron and I'm the co-founder of Sloafer.

Lucy Herron:

Um, and my husband and I designed a ballet shoe, uh, slash sneaker,

Lucy Herron:

and we sell online at sloafer.

Lucy Herron:

com.

Vicki Weinberg:

Amazing.

Vicki Weinberg:

So let's start with what inspired you to create Sloafer?

Vicki Weinberg:

Because I'd say a ballet crossed with a sneaker is pretty unique, isn't it?

Lucy Herron:

It is, and that's the reason we started it.

Lucy Herron:

Um, I feel like I'm kind of being dragged out of dragons den by security, shouting.

Lucy Herron:

We have a U S P.

Lucy Herron:

There's no one like us, but we are literally the only ballerina pump

Lucy Herron:

that is a hybrid with a sneaker.

Lucy Herron:

So a lot of ballet pumps try and be comfortable, but they, they aren't.

Lucy Herron:

They kind of get one element, right.

Lucy Herron:

They get the elegance right, but not the comfort.

Lucy Herron:

And that's why we started the company because I have always worn ballet pumps.

Lucy Herron:

I've always kind of gone down like the cheap ballet pump road and you can

Lucy Herron:

kind of feel the floor through them.

Lucy Herron:

And I kind of knew they weren't comfy, but I, I liked them, so I, I probably suffered

Lucy Herron:

for years, um, with uncomfortable shoes.

Lucy Herron:

And then I met my husband and he, um, loves trainers.

Lucy Herron:

He's got so many trainers and we were going on a weekend break and

Lucy Herron:

he was like, why can't you just pack properly and take a pair of

Lucy Herron:

trainers for walking around all day?

Lucy Herron:

Um, and at that point I was actually pregnant.

Lucy Herron:

And, um, he was like, this is ridiculous.

Lucy Herron:

You're going to be really uncomfortable.

Lucy Herron:

And I was like, no, I'll be fine.

Lucy Herron:

I'll be fine, I'll be fine.

Lucy Herron:

And obviously I was really uncomfortable.

Lucy Herron:

And so we got back and he, for my birthday, um, he gave me this pair

Lucy Herron:

of shoes and they were a ballet pump with a so-called sneak and soul.

Lucy Herron:

But there were so many things wrong with them.

Lucy Herron:

They were really ugly and I felt really awful, but I hated those shoes.

Lucy Herron:

Like, and it's funny, we just have a laugh about it now because we, we've

Lucy Herron:

now got a company, but they were really ugly and they were really uncomfortable

Lucy Herron:

and they were really expensive as well.

Lucy Herron:

So I was like, wow, it's not just cheap shoes that hurt, it's

Lucy Herron:

also like the expensive ones.

Lucy Herron:

And so we saw a genuine gap in the market because we couldn't

Lucy Herron:

find anything like it out there.

Lucy Herron:

And then fast forward to being pregnant the second time, I was also back in

Lucy Herron:

Italy, but this time wearing my Sloafers and I was super, super comfortable

Lucy Herron:

because they've got, um, a sneaker soul.

Lucy Herron:

So you, you look great and you feel comfortable all day.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's amazing and I can definitely see the need for that because

Vicki Weinberg:

I used to wear ballet pumps all the time, and then I got to, I can't remember

Vicki Weinberg:

whether it was pregnancy or a certain age when I was just like, no, I'm going to

Vicki Weinberg:

wear trainers because as much as I love how they look, it's just not comfy when

Vicki Weinberg:

you are on your feet for a lot of time, you know, like those cardboard thin souls.

Vicki Weinberg:

It's just, yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

They don't do really good.

Lucy Herron:

Exactly.

Vicki Weinberg:

So I can definitely see like, because trainers aren't

Vicki Weinberg:

always smart enough and there there are those occasions where you're like,

Vicki Weinberg:

oh, you know, I want to would be comfy, but my trainers won't quite cut it.

Vicki Weinberg:

So I think this is just such an amazing idea.

Lucy Herron:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

So what happened?

Vicki Weinberg:

So you had the idea of, you know, creating them.

Vicki Weinberg:

So talk us through a little bit, if you don't mind, about what happened then.

Vicki Weinberg:

So how you got from this idea, and it sounds like you had really clear vision

Vicki Weinberg:

to actually having a finished product.

Lucy Herron:

That's the problem.

Lucy Herron:

You have really clear vision and it's really difficult trying to explain it,

Lucy Herron:

but also even when you think you've explained it and you get a prototype back

Lucy Herron:

and you're like, oh no, no, no, no, no.

Lucy Herron:

That's really not what I meant.

Lucy Herron:

And so we went on LinkedIn.

Lucy Herron:

We found a footwear agent in Portugal and we didn't do like

Lucy Herron:

a massive amount of research.

Lucy Herron:

I've got to be completely honest.

Lucy Herron:

We just kind of dived in and obviously that meant that we made loads of mistakes

Lucy Herron:

and learned fast, but that's probably also quite a good thing in business.

Lucy Herron:

Um, so we found an agent and we sent her some drawings and just said, look,

Lucy Herron:

this is what we want them to be like.

Lucy Herron:

Um, she sent a prototype back and at that point I was crushed.

Lucy Herron:

I was like, I hate it.

Lucy Herron:

I don't want to.

Lucy Herron:

I just, it's horrible.

Lucy Herron:

I hate it.

Lucy Herron:

And, uh, my husband was like, get on with it.

Lucy Herron:

We've got to just improve it and make it better.

Lucy Herron:

And so we bend off that agent because she just said, oh, you, it can't be done.

Lucy Herron:

It can't be done.

Lucy Herron:

Everything was no.

Lucy Herron:

And I was kind of happy to say no for an answer because I was like,

Lucy Herron:

oh, I just think it's a stupid idea.

Lucy Herron:

And I kind of got the fear about starting a business and felt like a fraud.

Lucy Herron:

And my husband was like, no, no, no, let's keep going.

Lucy Herron:

Um, and so yeah, we found another factory in Spain, um, and we got an amazing shoe.

Lucy Herron:

Kind of four or five or attempts later, I was holding this shoe in

Lucy Herron:

my hands and I was like, oh, wow.

Lucy Herron:

Like, whoa, this, this is weird now because this is exactly what we wanted.

Lucy Herron:

So there was a lot of going back and.

Lucy Herron:

And then we found, um, a place that can make our shoes.

Lucy Herron:

And then kind of the rest is history really.

Lucy Herron:

We did actually move factory again, um, to get a better price point and

Lucy Herron:

someone that could produce smaller quantities because obviously we don't

Lucy Herron:

want to be kind of like mass produced and, you know, thousands and thousands

Lucy Herron:

and thousands of, of the same pair.

Lucy Herron:

The good thing about Sloafer is they're handmade and we do batches

Lucy Herron:

and we have a massive waiting list and there's a lot demand.

Lucy Herron:

And so that's kind of, we wanted to be, um, a bit less wasteful

Lucy Herron:

and we don't have like seasons.

Lucy Herron:

We don't have end season sales.

Lucy Herron:

Our shoes are our shoes and our shoes, and you get them or you don't get them.

Lucy Herron:

Um, and so now it's just like a creative process.

Lucy Herron:

So the, the bulk of the shoe is done.

Lucy Herron:

We're always looking for ways to kind of tweak it and make it a

Lucy Herron:

little more, you know, a little bit more comfortable, a little bit more

Lucy Herron:

flexible, but we're really happy with, um, the feel of it and the look of it.

Lucy Herron:

And so, yeah, now it just comes down to having a bit of fun with, um,

Lucy Herron:

leathers and animal prints and neons and just putting together, um, what

Lucy Herron:

you see as the finished product.

Vicki Weinberg:

That sounds amazing and I, I really like what you said

Vicki Weinberg:

about the way you produce themselves.

Vicki Weinberg:

So are they, so they, they're not made to order, they're

Vicki Weinberg:

small batches, is that right?

Lucy Herron:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

So you're not making them as people order them,

Vicki Weinberg:

but that sounds really good.

Vicki Weinberg:

So I guess there's a lot less waste involved.

Lucy Herron:

Yeah, there is.

Lucy Herron:

I mean, look, it's, it's a really, really expensive business to, to be in.

Lucy Herron:

It's very expensive on the manufacturing side because we work

Lucy Herron:

with factories that pay a fair wage.

Lucy Herron:

And so I think if you're going to spend seven pounds on a pair of pumps you know

Lucy Herron:

that someone is being exploited somewhere.

Lucy Herron:

And so yes, our shoes are expensive.

Lucy Herron:

There's no way of of getting around that, but they're handmade and

Lucy Herron:

they're really comfortable and they last for a really, really long time.

Lucy Herron:

So they are an investment piece.

Lucy Herron:

Obviously in recognition of the fact that they are an investment piece, we

Lucy Herron:

do some really solid, cool colours.

Lucy Herron:

So for a look, people, they're like, oh wow, I love the neon ones.

Lucy Herron:

They're so bright, they're so amazing.

Lucy Herron:

But if you're going to spend nearly 200 pounds on a pair of shoes, I

Lucy Herron:

also understand why you're like, I can't wear that every day.

Lucy Herron:

So you've got to wear a blush colour or a black or a navy.

Lucy Herron:

And so we have a lot of people who wear our shoes every day to work because

Lucy Herron:

they're kind of sensible, quote unquote.

Lucy Herron:

Then we also have people who are like, oh my God, I love glitter and

Lucy Herron:

sparkle and neon and animal print.

Lucy Herron:

And so yeah, we sell to loads of different people.

Lucy Herron:

It's like, it's almost like you can kind of see like people's

Lucy Herron:

personalities coming across with the shoes that they pick, because we've

Lucy Herron:

got something to, to suit everyone.

Lucy Herron:

But yeah, we produce about 30 at a time, so I've.

Lucy Herron:

You know, in some styles I've, I've got 30, and then in some styles I've got, you

Lucy Herron:

know, next to nothing and they sell out.

Lucy Herron:

And I think people are kind of used to the way we work now.

Lucy Herron:

So as soon as we announce we've got new stock coming in, I sell out pretty much

Lucy Herron:

within 48 hours because people have been waiting for them for, for so long.

Lucy Herron:

So yeah, it's, that's, that's kind of how we work.

Vicki Weinberg:

And does that mean that, so does every color or style,

Vicki Weinberg:

is every color or style available once or is it more like, okay, now

Vicki Weinberg:

I've got this one in stock and then in a few weeks you have another one?

Vicki Weinberg:

Is that how it works?

Lucy Herron:

Yeah, so we do have full restock at the end of our season.

Lucy Herron:

So typically people don't really buy kind of October, November,

Lucy Herron:

December, January, February.

Lucy Herron:

And then obviously, um, people start thinking about the spring, don't they?

Lucy Herron:

They're so fed up with the winter that by March, even though it's still a little

Lucy Herron:

bit cold, they're like, you know what?

Lucy Herron:

Let's just start thinking about the summer.

Lucy Herron:

So we do a full restock so that when we start selling again, you know, and we're

Lucy Herron:

really busy in the spring, we've got every style, every colour, um, we've just

Lucy Herron:

introduced a wide fit in some of our shoes and obviously, Really took us by surprise.

Lucy Herron:

Um, we only had 10 and I sold eight on the first day.

Lucy Herron:

So I was like, oh god, I should have got some more.

Lucy Herron:

Um, so we're always trying to like expand but be sensible about it.

Lucy Herron:

So yeah, I'm all stocked up and ready to go for the spring season now.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's amazing.

Vicki Weinberg:

So I'm just, I love.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's so interesting.

Vicki Weinberg:

I've never spoken to anyone who does it like that.

Vicki Weinberg:

So I guess over the winter months, is it just a case of you have what

Vicki Weinberg:

you have, so if someone went on your website in December, you have what

Vicki Weinberg:

you have in December, and then if they want something specific, they

Vicki Weinberg:

may have to wait until you restock?

Lucy Herron:

So we we're fully, we're fully stocked.

Lucy Herron:

So we aim to be fully stocked by the time things quieten down.

Lucy Herron:

So I guess our off season, you could say is kind of from October the first.

Lucy Herron:

It's quite funny.

Lucy Herron:

You can see it literally go off a cliff because people are, you

Lucy Herron:

know, thinking about winter boots and big socks and trainers doing

Lucy Herron:

the school run and stuff like that.

Lucy Herron:

So actually December's a great time to buy because I've got everything.

Lucy Herron:

But if you come to me in May and you're like, oh, I'm looking for a really

Lucy Herron:

delicate blush coloured shoe this spring, I'm like, sorry, I probably sold out.

Lucy Herron:

Um, yeah, we we're very, very busy from about March.

Vicki Weinberg:

Okay, so I misunderstood.

Vicki Weinberg:

I thought you were fully stocked in March, but that makes sense.

Vicki Weinberg:

So actually if someone wants something specific, now is a really great time

Vicki Weinberg:

to go and have a look, isn't it?

Lucy Herron:

Yeah.

Lucy Herron:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

Oh, that is really interesting.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I guess the other thing with the small batches is it gives you a chance

Vicki Weinberg:

to see what sells and what doesn't.

Lucy Herron:

Yeah.

Lucy Herron:

To be honest, like we've made , we've made a few bad choices, and yeah,

Lucy Herron:

you, you see the ones that fly off the shelves and you see the ones that don't.

Lucy Herron:

And I think the temptation is to be like, oh God, I better get them on sale.

Lucy Herron:

Some money's better than no money.

Lucy Herron:

Uh, You know, we, we can't afford to do that.

Lucy Herron:

Our profit margins are really slim and we are not, we're not going to do that.

Lucy Herron:

So we do have some colours that do much better than others.

Lucy Herron:

But yeah, there seems to be like a, it is generally, most styles

Lucy Herron:

appeal because, you know, as I said earlier, we've got some really basic

Lucy Herron:

sort of wardrobe staples that will last forever and go with everything.

Lucy Herron:

And then we've got some really cool kind of neon animal

Lucy Herron:

print ones, sparkles, glitter.

Lucy Herron:

So there's kind of something that suits everyone.

Lucy Herron:

So it's always quite interesting to, to see what happens when my phone like, does

Lucy Herron:

the cherching and I look and I'm like, oh, I wonder what they're going to go for.

Lucy Herron:

It's, it's always quite interesting seeing what people.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah, that is.

Vicki Weinberg:

And are you tempted, the ones that do sell out time after time, are you

Vicki Weinberg:

tempted to order more of those or are you sticking to the small batches for now?

Lucy Herron:

Yeah, well we still stick to small batches, um, because

Lucy Herron:

we're quite a fast cash flow business, and so we have a high turnover.

Lucy Herron:

But obviously as you can imagine, our manufacturing costs are high.

Lucy Herron:

Our marketing costs are high.

Lucy Herron:

We're always getting, you know, hit with invoices, and it can be a bit scary in

Lucy Herron:

our downtime as well because obviously we, we don't have the money coming

Lucy Herron:

in, but we've got the money going out.

Lucy Herron:

So we do have kind of like hero pieces, which are the shoes that

Lucy Herron:

just sell out the whole time.

Lucy Herron:

But we have to be careful not to let them cannibalize the whole of the range.

Lucy Herron:

And so I think what we find is, Where I might produce, you know, 30 to 50,

Lucy Herron:

um, of, of the black in the Navy, I'll only produce 30 of like the animal

Lucy Herron:

print with neon because I know that I could produce a hundred and I would

Lucy Herron:

still sell out, but then everything else will be left on the shelf.

Lucy Herron:

So it is just kind of, it, it's just trying to keep.

Lucy Herron:

You know, the idea that we've got what we've got when they're gone, they're gone.

Lucy Herron:

And also, like with leather, you can, it can go out of stock really quickly

Lucy Herron:

because it's, it's a natural product.

Lucy Herron:

And so no two sort of sheets of leather are going to be the same.

Lucy Herron:

And so you can look and say, oh, I love that Leo Print.

Lucy Herron:

And I love that Dalmatian print.

Lucy Herron:

And actually the suppier may just suddenly discontinue it, and

Lucy Herron:

then we'll get another leopard.

Lucy Herron:

But it'll be completely different.

Lucy Herron:

And obviously you roll out a massive piece of leather that is like metres

Lucy Herron:

and metres and metres, you know, large.

Lucy Herron:

But then when it's actually on a shoe, particularly a little

Lucy Herron:

sort of a smaller sized shoe, you are like, wow, is that the same.

Lucy Herron:

It looks really, really different.

Lucy Herron:

And so, the shoes can always end up looking slightly different.

Lucy Herron:

And so yeah, we do kind of 30 here, 30 there, um, and see what happens.

Lucy Herron:

And the, the frustration is, I got some samples back actually the other day.

Lucy Herron:

And I thought they were going to be amazing and I approved the leather and

Lucy Herron:

I was like, this is going to be lovely, perfect for spring, not losing any time.

Lucy Herron:

And then it arrived and I was like, ah, looks a little bit too dark.

Lucy Herron:

I didn't want it to be pink pink.

Lucy Herron:

I wanted it to be neutral.

Lucy Herron:

But you go from, you scaled down and once it's on the shoe, it

Lucy Herron:

ends up looking really different.

Lucy Herron:

So yeah, I've got to tweak that and, and find a, a slightly

Lucy Herron:

lighter coloured leather, so it will possibly be ready for spring.

Lucy Herron:

I'm kind of ready when I'm ready.

Lucy Herron:

That's, that's what I've realized, that there, there are so many variables

Lucy Herron:

that you can't really stress about it.

Lucy Herron:

And I think the good thing is we don't have like the new season coming soon.

Lucy Herron:

Because if I said that, I'd then have to go, sorry, we're

Lucy Herron:

going to be three weeks late.

Lucy Herron:

So we are very kind of relaxed about things.

Lucy Herron:

They happen when they have been.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's a really good, that's a really good

Vicki Weinberg:

attitude to have, I think.

Vicki Weinberg:

But do you struggle to, or to communicate this to customers?

Vicki Weinberg:

Because for customers this is a different way of shopping, isn't it?

Vicki Weinberg:

That they're small batches.

Vicki Weinberg:

When you have what you have, when it's gone, it's gone.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, how do you get that message across?

Vicki Weinberg:

To your customers?

Lucy Herron:

I'm just really honest.

Lucy Herron:

I tell them like I've just told you, um, you know, we have like a waiting list

Lucy Herron:

function, so someone will say, can you email me when this is back in stock.

Lucy Herron:

And I'll email them and say, sorry it's not coming back

Lucy Herron:

until the end of next year.

Lucy Herron:

And they're like, oh wow, okay.

Lucy Herron:

So then typically they'll buy something else and then when I email

Lucy Herron:

them, they're in such a rush because a lot of our shoes do stick in your

Lucy Herron:

head because they're quite vibrant.

Lucy Herron:

And so I sit back, it's quite funny, I love it when I've got a restock of like

Lucy Herron:

my really bright ones and I'll sit back and I think the record, I sent out an

Lucy Herron:

email to everyone who said, they're here and my phone pinged three minutes later.

Lucy Herron:

And when we did a restock of the Dalmatian with the neon, I sold a

Lucy Herron:

pair every three minutes for an hour.

Lucy Herron:

And I was screaming, excited.

Lucy Herron:

It was so funny.

Lucy Herron:

It was just like dinging, dinging.

Lucy Herron:

And then I sold them all.

Lucy Herron:

So I was like, oh God, maybe I should have got some more.

Lucy Herron:

But then obviously that goes back to what I was saying, that you know,

Lucy Herron:

we're never going to have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds for all

Lucy Herron:

of the reasons that I've given.

Vicki Weinberg:

I think that's nicer though, in a way.

Vicki Weinberg:

Because it also kind of makes it not, I don't want to use the word

Vicki Weinberg:

exclusive, that's not the right word, but it's, it's kind of nice that

Vicki Weinberg:

it's something that, it's something like a special purchase, isn't it?

Lucy Herron:

Yeah.

Lucy Herron:

Yeah.

Lucy Herron:

It's a, it definitely is.

Lucy Herron:

And I'm not, yeah.

Lucy Herron:

I'm never going to be flipent and say, oh no, it's an every day thing.

Lucy Herron:

It's not an every day thing.

Lucy Herron:

They're nearly 200 pounds.

Lucy Herron:

Is this something that you have to think about?

Lucy Herron:

They're well made.

Lucy Herron:

They're made by people who are paid properly.

Lucy Herron:

And they are made to last, like they're really, really, really good quality.

Lucy Herron:

And it's funny because I think my sort of reluctance was, I guess

Lucy Herron:

coming at this, I was always quite cautious about how I priced stuff.

Lucy Herron:

Because I was like, no, no, no, you, you can't ask people to spend that much money.

Lucy Herron:

But then we did loads of research and we were like, there are

Lucy Herron:

companies out there that are charging 500 pounds for a pair of pumps.

Lucy Herron:

And I can tell you now, they are not as well made and you can

Lucy Herron:

still feel the floor through them.

Lucy Herron:

So yeah, it has taken a little while.

Lucy Herron:

I'm not, by my nature, I don't have pound signs ringing, and so my temptation was to

Lucy Herron:

try and price them lower, but we couldn't, we could, we couldn't make a profit.

Lucy Herron:

We couldn't keep up.

Lucy Herron:

We couldn't produce if I set the price too low.

Lucy Herron:

And so I think it is just this constant argument.

Lucy Herron:

It's like, are they expensive or are they overpriced?

Lucy Herron:

And what I can say is they're not overpriced because I offer a breakdown.

Lucy Herron:

I've done it when people have kind of been a little bit picky, you know, like kind

Lucy Herron:

of keyboard warriors and they see our ads and they're like, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Lucy Herron:

I can get these for three pounds in prime market.

Lucy Herron:

And it's like, okay, go on then.

Lucy Herron:

Because you know, I can't, I can't put my energy into like

Lucy Herron:

changing hearts and minds.

Lucy Herron:

Like if you want to shop in prime market, that's fine.

Lucy Herron:

I'm not going to be preachy about it, but here's my breakdown.

Lucy Herron:

Here's what the leather costs, here's what the manufacturing costs, and

Lucy Herron:

then the, the choice is yours really.

Lucy Herron:

But we're, we're really upfront about everything, about costs, about the

Lucy Herron:

fact that we don't produce a lot, about the fact that you might love

Lucy Herron:

these shoes, but no, sorry, I'm not going to get them for nine months.

Lucy Herron:

Yeah.

Lucy Herron:

That's kind of, that's kind of how, how we approach it.

Vicki Weinberg:

I really like that because I think there's such a temptation

Vicki Weinberg:

to either, underprice your products because you're scared of charging too

Vicki Weinberg:

much or almost be apologetic about it.

Vicki Weinberg:

Like, I'm really sorry that you know that I'm charging you this, but I really love

Vicki Weinberg:

the fact that you can stand behind your pricing and yet because you know your

Vicki Weinberg:

numbers and you're really transparent about it, I really love that because

Vicki Weinberg:

it, it, it, it's really scary asking someone to pay you for anything, isn't it?

Vicki Weinberg:

And I think whether you set a product or a service, there's always a temptation

Vicki Weinberg:

to go there, a little bit cheaper just to make the other person feel

Vicki Weinberg:

a bit better, but yeah, I've, I've, hopefully, I really hope people find

Vicki Weinberg:

that inspiring what you've just said, Lucy, because you know what your products

Vicki Weinberg:

are worth, and it doesn't sound like you've second guessed yourself at all.

Vicki Weinberg:

You've kind of gone, okay, this is what I spend, and obviously you are a business.

Vicki Weinberg:

You have to make a profit.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, I really like that.

Lucy Herron:

Thank you.

Lucy Herron:

I mean, it comes from years of underpricing, like prior to Sloafer.

Lucy Herron:

It comes of like almost years of underpricing myself because I've

Lucy Herron:

run my own sort of my own thing.

Lucy Herron:

It's a a not-for-profit and I remember, you know, going and

Lucy Herron:

giving talks in Manchester because it would be great exposure.

Lucy Herron:

I remember spending like a hundred pounds on a train ticket and standing

Lucy Herron:

there and talking to seven people for an hour and that's like my whole day gone.

Lucy Herron:

My money gone and I'm like, I've got nothing from it.

Lucy Herron:

And I got nothing from it.

Lucy Herron:

And actually my husband kept saying, you've got to say no more.

Lucy Herron:

And I was like, I can't.

Lucy Herron:

I can't.

Lucy Herron:

I can't.

Lucy Herron:

I can't.

Lucy Herron:

And so I've, I've suggested everything for years and it's so nice.

Lucy Herron:

Just going, no, doesn't suit me.

Lucy Herron:

No.

Lucy Herron:

Not doing it.

Lucy Herron:

Not doing it.

Lucy Herron:

And I think that's the headspace you've got to get yourself

Lucy Herron:

into for pricing stuff.

Lucy Herron:

Because at one stage I was running one charity, which is like my

Lucy Herron:

not-for-profit that can do 15 years.

Lucy Herron:

And getting paid in exposure, which I kind of like learned my lesson

Lucy Herron:

eventually, but at one stage we were running like a, a not-for-profit

Lucy Herron:

for people who like nice shoes.

Lucy Herron:

And we were like, this is insane.

Lucy Herron:

And what we found is that when we increased the prices massively,

Lucy Herron:

but it wasn't that we increased it massively for no reason.

Lucy Herron:

We put the prices up to where they should be.

Lucy Herron:

We didn't lose any customers, we just got different customers.

Lucy Herron:

It's not about underpricing stuff because someone will always buy your shoes.

Lucy Herron:

You've just got to find the right people.

Lucy Herron:

And so it there, there's been a lot of, a lot of kind of work

Lucy Herron:

to get my own head around this.

Lucy Herron:

Behind the scenes, so I sound like I'm totally okay about it, but this has

Lucy Herron:

been like a long time in the making and it's just realizing that, you know,

Lucy Herron:

people out there will spend thousands of pounds on the most ridiculous of things.

Lucy Herron:

So if you're charging nearly 200 pounds for a pair of hand-made shoes,

Lucy Herron:

yeah, they're not for people that want 10 pound fast fashion, but

Lucy Herron:

they're also, I've had loads of people going, oh, they're quite affordable.

Lucy Herron:

And I'm like, ha.

Lucy Herron:

Yes.

Lucy Herron:

Ok.

Lucy Herron:

And yeah.

Lucy Herron:

So there, there are so many people out there.

Lucy Herron:

You just got to find the right people for your price point.

Vicki Weinberg:

That.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah, I think you're right.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I think a lot of us do get there eventually.

Vicki Weinberg:

It's just a shame we spend all those years or months or whatever it is,

Vicki Weinberg:

not making money in the process.

Vicki Weinberg:

Because I've definitely done it.

Vicki Weinberg:

I've definitely, with services I've offered underpriced because

Vicki Weinberg:

I've just been a little bit scared of asking for more money.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I think there's, it's just like knowing the value of you yourself and for

Vicki Weinberg:

you knowing the value of your product.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I think as people who are looking for ethically made products,

Vicki Weinberg:

um, are happy to pay a bit more.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I, I guess that's probably at least some of your customer bases,

Vicki Weinberg:

people who want to shop ethically because, and they know that shopping

Vicki Weinberg:

ethically means people are being treated well, paid well, you're therefore

Vicki Weinberg:

going to pay more for that product.

Lucy Herron:

Yeah, definitely.

Lucy Herron:

Definitely.

Lucy Herron:

I mean, i.

Lucy Herron:

I've definitely bought into the whole, oh, I need a new top and I'll just

Lucy Herron:

buy one from somewhere horrific, and I won't name them, you know, in my

Lucy Herron:

twenties and I guess early thirties.

Lucy Herron:

And I literally read one book and it completely changed sort of my attitude.

Lucy Herron:

It was, um, consumed by AliBaba and I kind of thought, oh my God.

Lucy Herron:

So suddenly realized that at the age of 40, which is like embarrassingly

Lucy Herron:

late, I just kind of realized like you only ever see the face of it.

Lucy Herron:

You just go into a shop and buy what you want and you don't

Lucy Herron:

realize what's going on behind the scenes and I know what you mean.

Lucy Herron:

Because now I'm like, oh, I could do with a couple of, you know, couple of

Lucy Herron:

white t-shirts and you're like, oh, they're really great but they're five

Lucy Herron:

pounds from, you know, X, Y, and Z.

Lucy Herron:

And you think, oh, okay.

Lucy Herron:

Oh, right now I, now I get why it's five pounds.

Lucy Herron:

And I know that sounds like, oh, how can you be so stupid?

Lucy Herron:

How can you be so naive?

Lucy Herron:

But I honestly think people just, you are busy, you don't

Lucy Herron:

really think about everything.

Lucy Herron:

But once your eyes have been open to it, then I think it does change.

Lucy Herron:

So I can, I can honestly say, I really consciously have, have not,

Lucy Herron:

I've, I've avoided a whole load of shops and I now question like, do

Lucy Herron:

I really, really, really need this?

Lucy Herron:

And even if I'm like, oh, I don't need it, but I want it, I still pick my, my want,

Lucy Herron:

quote unquote from a, a better place.

Lucy Herron:

So, yeah, I know, I know that sounds a bit, I know like if I'd heard

Lucy Herron:

someone say that to you two, three years ago, I'd be like, oh, at you.

Lucy Herron:

But you know, it just, it's just that wisdom, I guess, from, you

Lucy Herron:

know, and Instagram's great because you have access to so many people in

Lucy Herron:

the fashion world that can help you make the right sort of decisions.

Lucy Herron:

And obviously that's something that we try to kind of like implement

Lucy Herron:

in our, in our business now.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's great.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I think you're right.

Vicki Weinberg:

I'm, I'm exactly the same, especially in terms of do I actually need this or

Vicki Weinberg:

am I just being brought into the whole consumerism thing of we need more stuff.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I do think that, I do think things are going in that direction, but I think

Vicki Weinberg:

like you, I was, yeah, probably late thirties, 40 before I kind of got there.

Vicki Weinberg:

And it's a shame, you know, it took so long.

Vicki Weinberg:

But I think things are definitely going the right direction.

Lucy Herron:

Yeah, I think so.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, I'm really conscious of time, but there's one more thing I'd

Vicki Weinberg:

really like to touch on, if that's okay Lucy, which is, um, investment and seeking

Vicki Weinberg:

investment and particularly seeking investment as a female business owner.

Vicki Weinberg:

I had, I did a, um, an episode quite a while ago now all about seeking investment

Vicki Weinberg:

and I know that for women it can be more challenging than it is for men.

Vicki Weinberg:

We obviously haven't got loads of time to talk about this, but I'd

Vicki Weinberg:

love to just know a little bit about your experience if that's okay?

Lucy Herron:

My experience has been awful.

Lucy Herron:

I've sat, uh, at my kitchen table with absolute snake oil merchants, and I'm

Lucy Herron:

sorry to say it, but it's just there is a certain type of male investor and, um,

Lucy Herron:

before anyone like beats me around the head with it, yes, I know not all men,

Lucy Herron:

not all investors, but um, you know, there's a certain type, and I've had my

Lucy Herron:

business plan ripped up in front of me.

Lucy Herron:

I've had them draw lines through it.

Lucy Herron:

I've had them tell me that I shouldn't be online and that I should open a shop on

Lucy Herron:

Bond Street, which I just, I, I just had to shut off and glaze over and just smile

Lucy Herron:

and nod and just wait for him to finish and, and kind of get out of my house.

Lucy Herron:

Um, I've had people telling me that, um, my products are mediocre, uh, and that

Lucy Herron:

my business plan is weak, all with the intention of undervaluing my company so

Lucy Herron:

that they can buy 90% of it for 10 grand and make me feel like I'm still involved

Lucy Herron:

and pull the rug from underneath me.

Lucy Herron:

So I've had two really bad experiences with would be male investors, and

Lucy Herron:

I made a vow, never, ever to work with male investors again, unless we

Lucy Herron:

can have a conversation where I can get to the end of my sentence before

Lucy Herron:

they start banging on the table and telling me I'm wrong, and I'm more

Lucy Herron:

than happy with everything I've set up.

Lucy Herron:

I'm more than happy to defer to people who know more than me.

Lucy Herron:

But I find that in this business, when you're looking for investment,

Lucy Herron:

you attract a certain type.

Lucy Herron:

They don't want to give you any credit.

Lucy Herron:

They don't want to value you because they want a bargain and they want to take over.

Lucy Herron:

And I've kind of had enough of being bulldozed over.

Lucy Herron:

So actually we are in communication with, um, having said everything I've said a

Lucy Herron:

male investor, but my bad experiences have made me really, really forthright

Lucy Herron:

and I'm like, I have a business plan.

Lucy Herron:

I will be presenting it.

Lucy Herron:

I will take questions at the end, and I'm so not like that.

Lucy Herron:

I'm, I'm so not like that, but I've got really good at shutting down

Lucy Herron:

all of the objections that people have because I know it's a game.

Lucy Herron:

I know it's a game, and I know they're trying to get my

Lucy Herron:

company for next to nothing.

Lucy Herron:

And that's not happening because we've put our savings into it.

Lucy Herron:

We've put so much of ourselves into it.

Lucy Herron:

I'm damned if I'm going to get into bed with the wrong person.

Lucy Herron:

I'd rather have no company at all.

Lucy Herron:

So yeah, I definitely think women are the way forward because I think

Lucy Herron:

we are naturally less aggressive.

Lucy Herron:

And that's not to say that we are not assertive.

Lucy Herron:

That's not to say that we are not good at what we do.

Lucy Herron:

I just feel like there's a slightly better approach when you speak to women.

Lucy Herron:

And yes, there are some great men out there and there are

Lucy Herron:

some awful women out there.

Lucy Herron:

And that's not the, the purpose of the conversation, but I generally find

Lucy Herron:

you feel like you are working with a colleague, with a team member when

Lucy Herron:

you speak to a female investor and they want to get to know you, they

Lucy Herron:

want to get to know the business.

Lucy Herron:

Whereas with the men that I've spoken to, um, I've just been left with a

Lucy Herron:

really sort of bad impression, but with all bad experiences, it's taught

Lucy Herron:

me a lot and so I'm going into every conversation I have now with my eyes

Lucy Herron:

wide open, and I think you've just got to kind of not be afraid of saying no.

Lucy Herron:

So, yeah, you know, if, if we can't get investment on good terms,

Lucy Herron:

then we will spin it off and we will go for attempt number four.

Lucy Herron:

But I think you just, you just can't be bulldozed.

Lucy Herron:

And I think, you know, stereotypes kind of there for a reason.

Lucy Herron:

So I'm always quite mindful.

Lucy Herron:

If a male investor comes to me now, because I have found from my experience

Lucy Herron:

that, you know, there's, there's a fairly aggressive approach and that isn't for me.

Lucy Herron:

So yeah fingers crossed.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Vicki Weinberg:

I'm sorry.

Vicki Weinberg:

Sorry you've had such bad experiences and I hope you didn't mind sharing that.

Vicki Weinberg:

I just think it's good not to put anybody off because I think what's

Vicki Weinberg:

really reassuring is you're saying that despite having had some bad experiences,

Vicki Weinberg:

you're still looking for investment.

Lucy Herron:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

And it sounds like you just, you know, you're really clear that

Vicki Weinberg:

it needs to be a certain way on your terms, and I do think that's good for

Vicki Weinberg:

people to hear because I think investments scary as it is, but it's just, I think

Vicki Weinberg:

what I hope people take from this is what you said about just knowing your

Vicki Weinberg:

worth and standing your ground and not going for the first thing that someone

Vicki Weinberg:

offers you just because you're flattered that you know they've, they've asked.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

And just a theme I've got from this whole thing speaking to you,

Vicki Weinberg:

Lucy, is you really seem to know your worth, your product's worth.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I think that, I think that's really inspiring actually.

Lucy Herron:

Thank you.

Lucy Herron:

No, it's been really good to, to chat about it and yeah, I'm always

Lucy Herron:

happy to kind of share information and be a sounding board, like

Lucy Herron:

we've got so much stuff wrong.

Lucy Herron:

Um, I almost think it's a, it's a waste not to share it.

Lucy Herron:

So if I can make my balls ups and, and share them, then you know, hopefully

Lucy Herron:

other people will, will learn from that.

Lucy Herron:

I'm definitely better to learn from, in, in as much as all the

Lucy Herron:

stuff I've got wrong, I'm still working on getting everything right.

Lucy Herron:

But, um, yeah, I think we need to kind of support each other and look out for

Lucy Herron:

each other and not be so, you know, guarded with all our information.

Lucy Herron:

There's stuff that you need to keep close to your chest, but I think

Lucy Herron:

it's so much better to just kind of be collaborative and, and helpful.

Lucy Herron:

So yeah, that's, that's kind of my, my offer going forward.

Lucy Herron:

If anyone needs to talk about it, I'm, I'm just a phone call away.

Vicki Weinberg:

Oh, that's amazing.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you so much.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, yeah, and I, I'm think you will get taken up on that, I'm sure.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, so I'm going looking at time.

Vicki Weinberg:

One more minute.

Vicki Weinberg:

I've got one final question, and actually, based on what you've just said, I think

Vicki Weinberg:

this tied in beautifully, is what is the number one piece of advice you'd like

Vicki Weinberg:

to give to other people listening today?

Vicki Weinberg:

What's the one thing you want people to know?

Lucy Herron:

Always trying to do everything yourself first.

Lucy Herron:

Don't put yourself in the bin and pay someone to do something.

Lucy Herron:

Try your social media.

Lucy Herron:

Try your content, try your photography, try designing stuff, because we spent so

Lucy Herron:

much money on other people doing stuff that I look back and I'm like, oh my

Lucy Herron:

God, I so could have done that myself.

Lucy Herron:

Try everything yourself before you pay someone else to do it.

Vicki Weinberg:

That makes sense.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

I also think it makes sense because once you are looking for someone else to do

Vicki Weinberg:

it, you can't even know what you want.

Vicki Weinberg:

So I've got a good example for me would be this podcast, I'm going

Vicki Weinberg:

to try and outsource the editing, but because I've done it myself for

Vicki Weinberg:

three years, I know how it should be.

Vicki Weinberg:

I know how long it should take.

Vicki Weinberg:

All of those little things that actually when if you just outsource from the start.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I'm a big fan of outsourcing, by the way.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

I think a big problem is you just don't know how things should be.

Vicki Weinberg:

Could be.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um.

Vicki Weinberg:

You should be paying how long a job should take.

Vicki Weinberg:

So I think having all of that data yourself is so useful.

Lucy Herron:

Exactly.

Lucy Herron:

Exactly.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's brilliant.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you so much, Lucy.

Vicki Weinberg:

So I'm going to link to your website in the show notes so people can

Vicki Weinberg:

go and take a look at the shoes.

Lucy Herron:

Thank you.

Lucy Herron:

I really hope, uh, everyone likes our shoes.

Lucy Herron:

And if you got any questions about, um, what we've got in stock or sizing

Lucy Herron:

questions, just yeah, ping me an email.

Vicki Weinberg:

Oh, thank you so much.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

It's really good to speak to you.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you so much for listening right to the end of this episode.

Vicki Weinberg:

Do remember that you can get the full back catalogue and lots of free resources

Vicki Weinberg:

on my website, vicki weinberg.com.

Vicki Weinberg:

Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it,

Vicki Weinberg:

and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful.