How to start a handmade business – with Liz Cooke – Chester & Cooke

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:01

Welcome to the bring your product idea to life podcast. This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products or if you'd like to create your own product to sell. I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly practical advice as well as inspirational stories from small businesses. Let's get started. Today I'm talking to Liz Cooke from Chester and Cooke. Liz designs and makes Country living products for the home, garden, horse, and dog. It was really great speaking to her today. She explained how she got into starting her business and designing wooden products, which her husband then makes and they sell. She spoke a lot about the journey into that business, how it all came about, how the business runs now. Um, and she had lots and lots to speak about. We also spoke about some of her PR and award successes that she's had over the past. It's still a relatively young business, five years now, and Liz has definitely done a lot in that time and she has some really great advice to share with you. So I'd love now to introduce you to Liz. So hi Liz, thank you so much for being here.

Liz Cooke: 00:01:12

Hi there Vicki.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:13

So can we start with you, please give an introduction to yourself, your business and what you sell?

Liz Cooke: 00:01:17

Yes, um, my name is Liz Cooke and, um, I am the founder of Chester and Cooke. Um, my business, which I founded back in, well, I launched it in 2018. And, um, I sell country living products. So it's, uh, items for the home, um, garden, um, horses and dogs.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:43

Amazing. Thank you. And can you tell us when and how Chester and Cooke started? So you mentioned it was so five years ago now.

Liz Cooke: 00:01:50

Yes, it's our five year birthday this month actually in May. Yes. Um, so it all started, um, well, so back in 2015, I had to give up my job in finance. My, um, husband has got his own pattern making business, uh, which is like, um, uh, for the engineering industry, but he works in wood for making molds and things. Um, and he got quite poorly with a kidney disease and had to go on dialysis. So I had to give up my job in finance to run the business while he was quite ill. Um, then roll on two and a half years, he got a transplant and, um, so he, he was able to come back to work and I needed to find something else to do, but I couldn't go back full time because life was still pretty precarious, really. Um, and I thought about designing products that we could then make, uh, in our workshop. And so that's what I did. I started designing products and, um, took me roughly a year to get that going. And, um, a whole host of, um, things to do, um, protection, websites, uh, looking at pricing, all that sort of stuff. So, yeah, and then we launched in 2018.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:03:30

Amazing, well thank you for sharing that and I'm glad your husband's doing better now. And um You will go into details around lots of these things, but one question I have is this. So did you already know how to work with wood? Because all your products are obviously all handmade and they're all from, so if anyone hasn't seen your website, products all handmade and made from wood. So what was your background with wood working?

Liz Cooke: 00:03:52

So, uh, to be honest, that's all my husband. Um, and uh, yeah, obviously, he's a very skilled craftsman with wood. Um, you know, he's got all the equipment, tools, know how to do everything. However, in those two and a half years when I was running the business, I then understood the capabilities that we had within our workshop. And, um, yeah, I don't know. I seem to have a flair for being able to practically think about how things would go together and understand um, you know, understanding the strength needed of certain products and therefore that will impact how you actually construct it and just things like that. So, um, yeah, it was a real design journey. So, um, yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:04:52

Oh, wow. And are you, so your husband's making the products, is that right?

Liz Cooke: 00:04:56

That's correct, yes.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:04:57

And are you, so are you, working on the design side alongside him?

Liz Cooke: 00:05:02

Well, yeah, I do all the design and then, um, yeah, he, so I give him all measurements and ways to, to make it. He'll go away and make it and then we'll test them and trial them and make tweaks. And it's constant prototypes. Um, yeah, well, when I come up with a product. Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:28

But that's amazing. I'm thinking you were sort of saying, you know, however many years ago is now you were working in finance and to go from your finance job to finding out you've got this skill that perhaps you didn't know you had. I think that's incredible.

Liz Cooke: 00:05:40

Yeah, it was, it was really, I just seemed to, I don't know, get it. So, and yeah it's really good. I really love it. Um, love the whole design process. Um, yeah, it's really good.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:57

So when you first started with that, was it, was it always the intention that it was going to be a business? Was that from day one? Was it, I'm going to see if I can sell these products and make some money or did it start off as more of a hobby or something for fun?

Liz Cooke: 00:06:12

Um, no, it probably was let's see whether we can produce some products, um, and build this. But I suppose at the start, I never thought I would get it to the stage I've got it to now and, um, have the, the drive that I'm now having and the passion to, to, to build it really. I never, I don't know really what I was kind of hoping it to be. Maybe it was just because when you start something new, you're just so, um, just don't know whether it's going to work or not. You don't, I don't know, plan that big or, um, yeah. Because we never knew whether it would be able to support me going forward or whether I'd have to actually then go and, uh, you know, get a different full time job or whatever. But, um, yeah. So the intention was to hopefully sell and, and do that, but, um, yeah, it's, it's grown well.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:07:25

That's really good to hear. And I know what you mean when you first set up, especially if it's all new and you're not really sure, it's going to be hard to dream big in a way, can't it? And see sort of a year, two years, three years down the road, because you almost don't want to set yourself up for disappointment.

Liz Cooke: 00:07:41

Yes.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:07:41

I think it depends what kind of character you are. I think there are definitely people who can do that, but myself, I definitely am on the side of, well, let's see how this goes.

Liz Cooke: 00:07:49

Yes, definitely. I think perhaps as well, I was so wrapped up in designing and setting it up and building it that I never really stepped back and thought, how far do I want this to go? Um, yeah, we were in a very fortunate position that, um, a lot of it could be supported through our current business. So I wasn't having to plow lots and lots of money into it and make a massive investment and risk. So, you know, that was, you know, a great, great thing for us. Um, and yeah, it's flourished. I'm really, really pleased how it's going.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:08:34

That's really good. Um, where and how did you sell your first products? Um, but what, and which were your first products? Can you remember which?

Liz Cooke: 00:08:43

Yes, my first product was a boot jack. So my husband made me the boot jack many, many years ago. So, uh, we're both country people of, um, we've had, um, dogs ever since we've been together and I've had horses since I was about five. Um, so I'm always using wellies and uh, boot jack to pull my welly boots off with. So, um, it started with the boot jack he made me many years ago, and I thought I could make this look a lot better and, um, you know, as a gift, I've also adapted it so that children can use it, could be hung up and used like as a sign. Um, I just like to make my products a bit unique. So, yeah, it was when I was walking Chester, our Jack Russell. But it made me think about the boot jack and about, do you know what, I could make those. Um, that's what it started with.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:09:48

Really amazing. Oh, thank you for sharing that. And that's a nice, I guess that's a nice product to start with as well, because they're not too big or complex. Weren't too many pieces to them.

Liz Cooke: 00:09:58

No, that's it.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:09:59

Yes. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And so where were you selling your products, first of all?

Liz Cooke: 00:10:04

Um, so I did set up on Etsy to start with. Um, and I did set up my own website in 2018. So it all launched May, 2018. Um, yeah, so Etsy was, um, kind of my first platform that I, I went for, uh, along with my website. So yeah, but it was having the know how back then to actually market my own website. I wasn't even on social media back then. So it was a massive learning curve for me.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:10:43

Yeah. It's all, everything's a learning curve, isn't it? When you sort of get started. Um, and that's something I wanted to I'm trying to think how to phrase the question because I guess you had so much to do in terms of going from, okay, this is an idea and we would like to sell these to actually setting up as a business. What were some of the things that stand out to you as being like, maybe real challenges or things that you learned from?

Liz Cooke: 00:11:09

Yes, um, so one thing that was kind of massive and complicated for me was, um, IP, intellectual property, um, protection. Um, because I spent so long designing and, um, you know, trialing products and getting the right design, um, you know, it's really important that you protect that. And that's quite a minefield to actually understand the whole protection process. Um, so, that was just one part. Building a website and understanding that. I'm not an IT person at all. Um, pricing structures, understanding marketing, setting up on social media. Gosh, many, many challenges I faced. Um, so yeah, but I feel like I've come a long way. Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:12:08

Yeah. You definitely, definitely have. And are there, were there any, apart from the, um, obviously you found out you had a flair for designing. Was it, was there anything else like maybe from your business background that you were like, oh, actually it's really good. I already know how to do. I mean, I'm guessing I could be wrong. I'm guessing the financial side probably came fairly easy.

Liz Cooke: 00:12:29

Um, yeah, it was a different type of, when you say finance, um, you know, it was understanding like, um, we, how to come up with your retail price and, um, which is, is completely different to what I was doing. Um, so you know, I'm building in trade prices. I don't actually sell to the trade, um, really anymore, but um, yeah, it, you know, numbers come, come to me quite easily, but, um, yeah, it was, it was totally different really understanding, you know, but.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:13:15

Yeah, pricing can be really tricky, especially when it's a product that's hand, you know, it's unique, it's hand designed, it's handmade.

Liz Cooke: 00:13:21

Yes.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:13:22

Um, yeah. How, how did you work out how to price your products out of interest?

Liz Cooke: 00:13:27

Um, well. Obviously, you have to look at your market that you're in and you've got to, um, you know, it's got to be sellable. You can't have it at an unrealistic price. And actually some, some items that I've designed, I just can't even kind of contemplate putting them, you know, making them because we can't make them for a price that we'd need to sell them at. Um, you know, unfortunately. It's not like you're going to China and buying them cheap, you know, materials are expensive, labour's expensive, it's just, um, you know, when you have a handmade quality product, they're expensive. So we are at the higher end of the market, definitely. Um, and it's obviously getting a base price for all of your materials, you need to, um, obviously factor in, um, your profits, um, and the VAT, and, um, you know, to work out what you need to be selling it at, and obviously the platforms that you use will have different fees, so you've got to, you know, factor all of that in as well.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:14:43

There's a lot to consider. And I really liked what you said about how, well, when I say really liked, I'm sad that it's happened, but you know, you mentioned that you've got products that you can't sell because you just couldn't sell them for the price you'd need to.

Liz Cooke: 00:14:55

Yeah, I don't even, I wouldn't even attempt to just, um, just because I just know it wouldn't even get there really.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:15:06

And that's such a, I mean, when I say I like it, what I mean is I really like that advice because it's a shame that you're not able to, but I think it's, it's really smart. And to make that, because I imagine that's not an easy decision to make because obviously you've put so much care into creating something. Um, but it's not very often that I speak to someone who says, and I decided not to sell it. That doesn't happen very often. So I actually think that's really, that's really useful for us to hear that you've got, you know, you made the decision that actually this isn't viable.

Liz Cooke: 00:15:37

Yes, definitely. You know, during the design process, I come across that, um, quite a bit really, um, you know, whether it be the materials, um, because sometimes I've designed some really beautiful, um, items and I just think, oh, I'd love to sell this, but actually, not only the materials it costs to make it, but the, then the time because they're so, um, I don't know, fiddly to put together or just, um, complicated. Uh, just doesn't make it viable and you just make no profit and there's no, there's just no point is there. It's um, it's not worth doing it, but

Vicki Weinberg: 00:16:22

Absolutely not. Yeah. And are you out of interest making all of your products to order as well?

Liz Cooke: 00:16:29

Um, a lot of my products are personalized. So I am really passionate that my items, um, give a real emotional connection and I just, I just love people when they order personalized items that I just think, oh, you know, it's just so lovely having a piece in your home that either has got a phrase on it or whether it's, um, the name of the house or the name of a family. And it's. It makes it feel like for me, but that item then belongs to that home. It's not just a standard piece. Um, so yes, we, we then obviously make them to order and you know, as well, um, you can't build up a lot of standardised stock because you just don't have the room to store it all, so we do, you know, um, produce, um, a lot to, to order.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:17:29

That's what I wondered because I also thought from a time perspective, given that your pieces all take time to make, I guess you also can't spend the time on creating things. to then sell. It makes much more sense to have sold it and then make it.

Liz Cooke: 00:17:42

Yes, I mean, um, you know, so, so for instance, my welly racks and seed boxes, we do a standardized version, um, which we will hold a bit, a bit of stock on so that we can then ship them faster. But, um, yeah. I would say pretty all of my pieces can be personalized and then they'll just take a bit longer.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:06

Yeah, but I think though to have personalized things as you said, it's so lovely. I think people don't mind waiting, do they? No. It's, you know, it's, it's special, like you say, to having something personalized.

Liz Cooke: 00:18:17

Definitely. Yes. Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:19

So let's talk a little bit about the last few years, because you should say five years, which is amazing. Happy birthday. Um, and I've seen that over that time, you've had a lot of publicity, you've had, you've won quite a lot of awards. Can we talk a little bit about that, please? Do you want to share with us some of what's gone on?

Liz Cooke: 00:18:36

Um, gosh, it's been quite a journey, really. Back in the earlier days, uh, I was really chuffed. Um, I mean, this was quite some time ago. I got, um, it was coming up to Christmas, and Country Living, you know, massive magazine, put us in their gift section, uh, for our, I think it was our welly boot rack and boot jack. So that was really nice, um, PR for us. Um, we have, uh, what else have we done? Uh, really, really excitingly, um, ITV got in touch with me and, um, asked us to make them a welly rack for their show, um, Love Your Weekend. So I created a welly rack kind of, um, play on words with that. I think it was love your wellies I think it was. So, um, they did a little section putting up my welly rack and, uh, they also had a boot jack on there. Um, so that was really exciting. Only a tiny little slot, uh, but yeah, it was very exciting being, having my products on the telly. So, uh, that was with Alan Titchmarsh was hosting there. So, uh, he's also got one of my seed boxes. So, uh, he sent me a lovely note. So to thank me for that. Um, what else have I done? So Forbes contacted me and put me in, uh, um, Mother's Day, um, gift, gardener's gift guide, so that was great. So, um, I do ship to America, uh, Canada, Australia. So yeah, it was great going to Forbes. Um, so that was last year. Um, what else have we done? My seed box, um, won an award uh, for in a magazine. Um. Then, I've been in Horton Hound for my bridle racks, they featured us in there. And, um, just in March, which I'm very, very proud to say, we won Micro Business of the Year for East of England. So, there was about 3 000 entries for, this is under the FSB, Federation of Small Businesses. So, that was massive. And, it was just an amazing event. And yeah, so we were absolutely thrilled about that.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:21:21

Oh, well done. That's amazing.

Liz Cooke: 00:21:24

Thank you. Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:21:26

Yeah, that's, yeah, that's really, really good. And, um, what I'd be interested to know is, so are these, it sounds like a lot of the time people contacting you about these opportunities, because I was going to ask you how these came about, but it sounds like you were being approached.

Liz Cooke: 00:21:40

Yeah, I do. Um, yeah, I do get approached about lots of things. Things just, happen and appear. It's great. I love it. So, um, yeah, it just turns up out of the blue. Yeah. Sometimes I did go out there and try and, um, do a whole little PR thing. Um, but to be honest, I'm so busy that doesn't happen very often at all. But, um, you know, just to try a different marketing technique.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:22:11

Do you have any idea how and where people are finding you?

Liz Cooke: 00:22:18

Um, I get a lot of my sales through Etsy. So, um, you know, obviously that's when people are searching for a particular item, you know, they're searching for a seed box and they find me, um, on Etsy, um, but Google on the website, through social media, um, yeah, I'm just dabbling a little bit with Pinterest, um, so that sometimes brings some traffic. So, yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:22:52

It sounds like with the PR opportunities though, it sounds like you're probably doing a really great job with your SEO, because I'm assuming that they're searching for I don't know, home and garden gift or whatever it is, you know, PRs are looking for when they're finding you. So yeah, they're finding you that.

Liz Cooke: 00:23:08

Yes.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:08

That's amazing.

Liz Cooke: 00:23:10

Yeah. I, um, I do try on SEO with, you know, my keywords and, you know, building my website. Um, to be honest, that's a whole, uh, as a story of learning, um, really, and, um, blogging. Um, yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:33

Like you say, there is always a lot to learn, um, which actually leads me on to, are there any, so is there any advice you would give to anyone sort of in the early stages of their business in terms of, because it can feel, can't it, really overwhelming when you think of all the things you've got to suddenly do, um, is there anything you'd want people to think about?

Liz Cooke: 00:23:52

Yes, definitely. So yeah, leading on from that point actually in SEO. So, um, it was a few years ago now I did a course blogging for gold, uh, with a lady called Maddy Shine, you'll find her on Instagram under Maddy Shine, and that opened a whole new world to me of SEO because I didn't even know what it was, let alone how you do it. So that was a brilliant course. Uh, I learned so much and, um, yeah, it enabled me to put things into place and to work on my website, but also to start blogging and blogging in a way that would, um, you know, be, do its job really. Um, I do it as often as I can, you know, trying to at least once a month, if not more, um, so at the moment I'm doing gardening blogs, but then trying to, um, getting, getting other products, um, in there as well. Um, but what led on from that course was, um, I joined, uh, a training mentoring support group called Visible Vibes, again, Maddy Shine. And I would recommend anyone to do this sort of thing. If they're setting up their own, um, business like this, it has just got a whole host of training resources of, you know, absolutely anything you can think about setting up your business. So, you know, SEO, PR, um, you know, IT stuff, um, like reviews, just, just a whole wealth of information. And, you know, the thing is, when you're setting up a business, you don't, this sounds a bit weird, but you don't know what you don't know.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:25:51

Absolutely.

Liz Cooke: 00:25:53

So, you're not actually looking for that information, are you? So, um, you know, and uh, Maddy does training sessions, um, once a week, uh, which you can join on Zoom, and I have just learned so much from it, and you know, not only the training aspect, but the support, because there's a support group with it as well, and, you know, if you're ever stuck on something, there's always a group of really lovely people to help you out and, and mad to give you advice. So that's one thing I would definitely recommend, because if I had known this right from the word go, I think I would have done so much more so much earlier.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:26:40

Oh, that's brilliant. And yeah, Maddy's, Maddy's been on the podcast as well actually, she is brilliant. Um, and she's so knowledgeable, but I have to say as well that it sounds to me that you've got you, what's really also helped is that you, because you have actually done things because it's very easy to go to a training course or I do it quite often. You know, I sign up for a workshop on something and I go and I go along and I take notes, but then it's actually implementing it, which is going to make the difference. So I think there's that as well. It sounds like you've been very diligent at learning things and then applying what you've learned and just going ahead and, and do it. I mean, I'm definitely getting that sense from you that you're just doing it, you know, you're not yes, I'm you're not just thinking about it or talking about. Yeah. You're, yeah, that's definitely.

Liz Cooke: 00:27:25

I'm quite tenacious. It's like I won't give up if, uh, if things aren't going right. I, I'm a bit like, right, I look for another way and, um, you know, you, you work through problems and to solve them, you know, you've got to just keep pushing on really. Things don't always go right. And I've had really, you know, challenging times, um, but you just find ways around things. So, yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:27:55

Well, I think that's great advice and thank you. Because I think that that's a, whether you meant to give us that or not, I think that, you know, that's definitely something we can take from this is that you had, you have to sort of put your head down and do it.

Liz Cooke: 00:28:08

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:28:08

You can listen to all the podcasts and read the blogs and go to the trainings, but actually doing it is what makes the difference. Yeah, definitely.

Liz Cooke: 00:28:18

I suppose one other thing as well is that, um, you've got to be very careful that it doesn't overtake your life. Because, um, you know, when you run your own business, you can become very absorbed in it and just that's all that runs through your head is doing this, doing that. And, um, I think you have to, you try your very best to get a balance between your family life, your business life, you know, chill time so you don't burn out basically.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:28:58

Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, that's great advice, especially, you know, so many of us are working from our homes. It can be really hard to have that distinction between working and not working.

Liz Cooke: 00:29:08

Yes. Yeah, very much. Yeah. But you've got to enjoy it as well. And I really do. I, yeah, so it's nice.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:29:18

Yeah, that's good. I'm getting, I'm definitely getting that from you. Um, so thank you so much. Everything you shared is I've got one final question, if that's okay. So what would your number one piece of advice be for other product creators?

Liz Cooke: 00:29:32

Um, yeah, I suppose it is really just that training. Um, if I'd have had that from the word go, um, I would have got so much further, so much quicker. Um, so get out there and find someone that can help you through the process, through the process of setting up your business. Um, you know, gosh, just, just every step of the way, if you have somewhere that you can go to get help and advice and support, um, I think that's definitely the, the one thing I'd say to do, um, you know, whether it be perhaps they want to sell on Etsy, maybe they don't want to create their own website and they're perhaps not interested in IP or, you know, those aspects. But if it's just perhaps Etsy, then go and get Etsy training. Um. You know, I think, because you do see a lot of people on Etsy that have set up an Etsy shop and, you know, it doesn't appear to be working for them. Um, but if they actually knew how to get it to work for them, um, you know. Yeah. There's no reason why it can't. So I think it's getting help and support is, is key really.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:31:03

Yeah, I think that's great advice. Thank you. I totally agree. I mean, I remember when I first started my first business, I spent so long figuring out, you know, building my own website and lots of various things. And, but I spent far too long on things. I'd get so hung up where it was actually, you know, now, and definitely with hindsight, I would have just found someone to pay to do it for me. And I know that that's an investment, and I know that's not always possible. However, when you think of the time that you can spend, I remember spending hours, you know, trying to get like a certain aspect of my checkout to work or something. Um, whereas really I probably could have paid someone a small amount and it would have been done in an hour or whatever. It's a real false economy, isn't it?

Liz Cooke: 00:31:48

Yes, definitely.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:31:49

You've got saving money, you're spending time.

Liz Cooke: 00:31:52

Yeah. You've got to understand how your time is best spent really. And what, what adds the most value to the business? You know, like you said, where do you get your sales from? So for instance, if, um, I don't know, Pinterest really works for you. Obviously, spending more time on that, but, um, you know, it, you don't have to do everything because there's a massive amount of things you can do, social media, Pinterest, blogging, you know, and you don't have to do it all. Um, but it's actually. Finding the things that, um, work for you, what you're good at, um, you know, and I suppose really sticking to it and going for it.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:32:45

That makes sense. Thank you, Liz.

Liz Cooke: 00:32:48

You're very welcome.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:32:49

Thank you so much for everything you shared today. So we're going to link to your website and your social media in the show notes. Everyone can go and have a look at your products. And yeah, thank you again.

Liz Cooke: 00:32:57

Oh, thanks so much, Vicki.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:33:01

Thank you so much for listening right to the end of this episode. Do remember that you can get the full back catalogue and lots of free resources on my website vickiweinberg. com. Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful. Thank you again and see you next week.