How to sell your products on Pinterest – with Lianne Harris, Pinned Social

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:08

Welcome to the, Bring Your Product Ideas To Life podcast, practical advice, and inspiration to help you create and sell your own physical products. Here's your host Vicki Weinberg. Today, I'm speaking with Lianne Harris. Lianne helps small businesses increase sales and website traffic by building brand awareness on Pinterest. Um, I've wanted to have a Pinterest expert on for quite some time because I've heard it's a great place to promote and sell products. Um, had a little go myself a while ago didn't really know what I was doing. And so I thought let's find an expert. So Lianne is going to tell us all about Pinterest, why at your product should be there and how to best utilize it, to get people over to your website and ultimately to buy your products. So I really hope you enjoy this conversation with Lianne, and I'd love to introduce you to her. So hi Lianne. Thank you so much for being here. Could you start by giving an introduction to yourself, your business and what you do?

Lianne Harris: 00:01:08

Yep. I'm Lianne Harris. I, um, I run Pinned Social. It's a Pinterest and social media management company. I do specialize in Pinterest and I help small businesses, um, with getting their brand out there and get people to see them and hopefully convert into sales.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:29

Perfect. Thank you. So we were just talking before we recorded that I am a bit of a Pinterest beginner. I've used it like. You know, to, to home decoration projects over the years, I dabbled in using it for my products business didn't really know what I was doing and gave up. So I'm coming to this as a complete novice. So can we start with an introduction to Pinterest what it is and how people are using it, because I'm sure that people are using it in many more varied ways.

Lianne Harris: 00:01:54

Yeah. So Pinterest is a visual search engine. So just like, um, Google and YouTube. So YouTube obviously is all videos. Google, you can literally find anything. So Pinterest is, uh, it was predominantly just images, but we do also have, um, videos. That's now starting to creep into there as well. Um, Essentially people that we spoke about earlier um, think it's just about finding recipes, home, um, inspiration and fashion. Um, but products can actually be purchased through there as well as looking for services. Um, people, anything that people want to look for, you can literally find, um, just look in the search bar and just typing the word isof what is that you're looking for. And you'll be able to find your answers that.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:02:50

Okay, thank you. And so are people using it for more than just recipes and fashion ideas? Are they using Pinterest for? Um, not, probably not quite as exactly the same they're using Google, but are they using it for wider range of things now?

Lianne Harris: 00:03:05

Yeah, so we found that during lockdown and since then people have gone there, um, for ways to try and help with their mindset. So Pinterest seems to be very much a place where. Um, it's trying to be more eco-friendly and mindful. So anything that you want to go to maybe just to practice yoga or things like breathing techniques, it's all become very, as people would say woo. In that sense. So if it's become very mindful of the way people are feeling and trying to push that kind of the wellness and. But then I'm trying to think of great being sustainable and living in that eco kind of sense.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:03:51

Yeah, that makes sense. I get the impression actually from just the very little I've used, then it seems to be quite a positive place as well.

Lianne Harris: 00:03:58

Yeah, no, that's it. That's exactly. They're trying to make it all positive. They, um, they've done a lot in the sense of they've found the ability to do anything in terms of dieting. In the sense of trying to push the dieting products. So obviously if you want to do healthy lifestyle and healthier recipes, that's okay. But when it comes to pushing the, like the diet pills and all things like that, so they want it to be all positive about feeling good. But they've also stopped in terms of anything with the teenagers, looking at it, um, anything explicit in terms of depression, um, and that kind of the darker route they're trying to encourage the positivity in mental health rather than allowing and encouraging people to search for the darker side.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:04:49

Yeah, that makes sense. And in the simplest terms, I guess a pin is an image, isn't it, or a video that then links through to a web page or somewhere else. Is that thinking about it perfectly yet?

Lianne Harris: 00:05:02

So essentially. Pinterest started off just like a pin board. So like you would at home, like an inspiration thing that you literally just pin it and that would be what it looks pretty. Um, but when you actually click on the image or the video, not only does it have an actual description, so it gives you more information and little bitesize element, but by clicking on that then takes you to a website. So obviously in terms of business, that's amazing because you're then potentially getting someone to then look at everything on your website. So as long as the image is good and it's eye catching and it's pleasing, um, that's going to help with, a sales funnel.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:45

Perfect. Thank you. And we'll talk a little bit more about how to make your pins look good later. Um, obviously this is the podcast for product businesses, but, um, just, you know, it's covered us off as well. Cause I think it's good to know. Do people look for services on Pinterest or is it mainly products?

Lianne Harris: 00:06:00

People look for services. I have a, um, a photographer client and she's also local. So, which is perfect because the amount of people that say, oh, well, I only deal with local clients, Pinterest isn't for me, that's not the case. Even if you're a product based, the only deal with a local area its all about using. Um, your keywords, which is essential, just like it is with your SEO, for Google. You need to use that, um, when it comes to using your pins, because then you can kind of home in, um, kind of thing. You can also use it if you're a blogger. That's how I actually started off using Pinterest. Um, so as a blogger, obviously blog posts are amazing, but they're not the be-all and end-all anymore being a service or a product base. Um, you could just utilize what your products.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:06:58

That makes sense. Thank you. We'll talk, we will definitely talk about keywords a bit later because I really want to dig into those and what you said really makes sense because people talk a lot now about repurposing content and I guess creating a Pin for your blog post is just another way of repurposing it and get it in front of different people. So why is Pinterest, um, good for product businesses and what are some of the opportunities? So how, how might you use Pinterest as a product business and why is it a good thing to do.

Lianne Harris: 00:07:26

Well, it's evolved from a website, as I've said, that was essentially a pin board, but Pinterest is actually the third largest search engine in the world, um, behind Google and YouTube. So that just shows how amazing the Pinterest is and how vital it can be to a marketing strategy. Um, But there's a shopping integration feature that they now have, um, that I think it's Shopify in the UK. Um, as long as you've got Shopify, then you can then connect it and you can, it's just like Instagram. You can't purchase literally direct through the platform, but it'll direct you immediately to that product. So you can then buy, um, but you can upload your catalog. So if you look at New Look on Pinterest, it will show you that there's a. The front cover. When you click on their profile, it's going to have the shop feature first that's immediately what you see. And they categorize it. What the different types of clothes like trousers, men's women, children. And so it's so much easier for the user to go and see what is that they want to buy, rather than having to trawl through all of these people's pins to potentially find some.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:08:47

Yeah. And what if you don't have Shopify, can you still link free to like a sales page on your website, for example?

Lianne Harris: 00:08:54

Yep. There is a thing called rich pins. Um, so essentially pull through the information from the website. So if you were to type in a URL for say a silver necklace that you sell. It will, because you've got this thing called rich pin set up, it will pull through. So if you have a special offer, say for black Friday, um, or for Christmas or Valentine's day, whatever, it'll pull through that discount automatically for you. And then when it goes back to full price, it will then automatically go back up to full price. So you don't have to do anything other than just pull through the image in the URL. So it's fantastic

Vicki Weinberg: 00:09:35

That's really clever. And that was called rich pins. Did you say, and is that something that you have to set up or is that something that's in Pinterest already?

Lianne Harris: 00:09:43

Um, you need to claim your website in your settings and then it'll give you a bit of HTML that you need to just put into your website. Uh, but as soon as that's put into your website, it will just do it for.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:09:56

Okay, well, that certainly sounds doable. Um, so let's talk a bit more about setups. So what are the basic things you need to do? So if I wanted to set up a Pinterest account for my products today, what, you know, what are the things I need to, um, what are the things I need to do?

Lianne Harris: 00:10:13

Um, make sure it's a business account. for sure. Create, um, pin boards. So what I normally say, think of the 10, most important elements of your business that you need to create the boards. Um, and then if you create pins, so you need to think of the products that you want to push that are, whether it be your best sellers, uh, which predominantly if your, your most popular. purchases, because then I can just kind of work in the background whilst you then upload the other elements. Um, claim your website. Like I said, I'm trying to think if there's anything else, create your biography, make sure that you, um, in your biography, make sure it's all SEO friendly, um, and just do your research for that. And then when you create your pens, they've got the best opportunity.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:11

Okay. And when it comes to the keywords, um, I'm assuming that is keywords, not hashtags on Pinterest. Is that right?

Lianne Harris: 00:11:18

No hashtags on Pinterest

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:21

okay. Give I've seen them on there. Then I also saw a post on your Instagram recently where you were saying that actually Pinterest confirmed that they're not even used.

Lianne Harris: 00:11:29

They used to be used and then they'll like, no, actually we're not going to use that as a feature. Not anymore.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:36

That's good to know. And how would you go about researching the keywords for Pinterest? So let's say you're thinking about writing your biography and you're not really sure. What words and phrases to use. Would you just use the Pinterest search bar for that? Or are there other tools that you can look up

Lianne Harris: 00:11:51

You can use the search bar, um, that will show you what people are actually looking for. So then when you look in the dropdown, as you type a word, then they'll show you a dropdown and it'll show you other potential items. Um, there is also the trends. Um,so it's in analytics on the top. If you click on that and then they'll have a page called trends, um, in that it'll show you when you type the words and it'll have like a little graph and it'll show you, obviously, if it's peaking, so it'll be trending, or if it's dropping, then you know that it's not the most popular thing. So it just helps you put together a strategy of what is and what isn't going to work at that point in time.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:12:35

That makes sense. Thank you. And when it comes to setting up boards, so I understand that you have, you have account and then you have boards, which are like different categories. Tell me if I'm getting this wrong, Lianne, and then under each boards. Um, so you mentioned maybe having eight to 10 boards. Um, so let's say you were products business and you said one sort of product. So you, sell jewellery, is it a case of having like a board for necklaces, a board for rings let's say, or what should I say? You only sell earrings. So let's say you, someone, you just sell earrings, um, so you might have a board of earrings. What other kinds of boards would you be creating?

Lianne Harris: 00:13:14

You could then the, you might think, oh, I just sell earrings, but you've got gold earrings, silver earrings, white gold earrings. You've then got drops. Hoops cuffs. Can you tell I've done jewelry? Yeah. There is so many different types you could then, um, you could then do just the business name in itself. So if it becomes a bit of a brand name that people know, I'm just trying to think, youcould send do, um, Gifts for her. And then if you do male earrings, guests for him, um, birthday gifts, gifts for the girlfriend. gifts for the mother, it's trying to be creative. And I, all I say is almost like a tree you're branching out. So if you've got one idea, then you just see how you can branch that one idea. Oh. Um, but you can only use 10 boards for one pin. It just keeps it, it saves it being repeated because I know they as a user, it could be frustrating. You see you type in something, you literally see the same image over and over there. And you're just like, no, I want to find something else. I don't want to see just the same thing. And that's what it stops doing. It stops the repetitiveness and the spam. Um, and that's why you're restricted to 10.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:14:40

So 10 is that 10 pins for each yet?

Lianne Harris: 00:14:45

Yeah, 10 pins for that same image. So say you've got a gold hoop and it's the same. You've done 10 boards for this one, gold hoop, but if you've then got a completely different picture of the same product, with a different, um, if you go to the different like backgrounds and you've got different items, when you're in your flatlay you can then get away with doing that because it's a different image. Pinterest loves fresh images. So while she viewed them 10 boards, you might have 20 boards that are still relevant that you can use, but you can then just use them extra 10. So the 10 to 20 boards, you can use that on the second image.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:15:29

Yeah, that makes sense. So you can have different images taking you to the same product.

Lianne Harris: 00:15:34

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:15:35

Perfect. And so coming on to pins, what should you be pinning? Because I'm assuming you can't just pin pictures of your product, or maybe you can just pin pictures of your products. I don't know. Um, but what, what would we be looking at pinning? And particularly if you sell a limited range of products, let's say, um, you know, so you've got quite, you know, you've got quite a small range. Um, so you might think, okay, I've got five product, five products and I've posted pictures of all of them then what would you do?

Lianne Harris: 00:16:05

If this product, um, nine times out of 10, you can have a model modeling it, whether they're wearing it or they're using it or something along them lines. So you can then have a model involved in the picture. You can do as many flat lays as you want. Um, and then you could even have it sat if it's like a household item sat in the kitchen. So it's a completely different setup. In the grass in the sunshine. And honestly, it's about being creative. You can have five items, you can have just one item, but as long as that one item is being photographed and then being used, you can then have a completely different model. You can have a man holding it you can have a child holding it. It's honestly the sky's the limit.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:16:52

Okay. So you can post pinsof you. Yeah. Like you say, you've got one product, so you can just keep posting about that one product just with different images. Yeah. Um, and is there anything else that you could or should be pinning as well as that,

Lianne Harris: 00:17:08

if you have any blog posts that would work, um, You can also try to get people to subscribe, to subscribe to your newsletter. If you've got an email list, um, that's always really good because then you can then just when you get subscribed, but you can then jump into the emails and then you can give them more information about you as a business. Um, so you've got that. You can then also, just while you can send them to them, to your homepage, it is kind of recommended to not just because of. Only send it to the home page. It's just a bit, I wouldn't say boring. It's not, but it's kind of a last resort I would say. Um, but you can do about main, um, contact page so you can literally send them straight to your contact page. I'm just trying to think what else, if you've got limited. We can do an infographic and then you can then, so that'll give you information about something. If there's a product that you do. So rather than doing an actual blog post, you can have it all on the infographic. Um, you can do a video of you creating the product if you create it from home. So jewellery is handmade jewellery, then you can just do like you creating something or, um, Yeah. it literally is a case of just thinking outside the box and trying to think of what you can do. And I think it's more so if you're limited on the product, it is a case of you're going to have to be that little bit more creative and in thinking.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:48

Yeah, because I'm assuming that you need to be posting. I don't know how often you can let us know Lianne, how often you need to be updating your Pinterest, because I'm assuming that if you go on and you create posts for different pages on your website, different products, and then you don't do anything for a couple of months, I'm assuming your traffic's going to drop off at some.

Lianne Harris: 00:19:05

Yeah. Yeah. You need to be consistent. Um, they do say that the recommended numbers, 15 to 25 pins a day, but that's a limit um, so you not needing to post that much. I can sometimes only post two, three times maximum a day. And that includes re-pins um, for clients and they still see a progress. Um, well, Pinterest is looking for is consistency. So you might only pin one every, but as long as it's every day, that's fine. And they see that there's that consistency there and they see that's how your account is working. Um, what they do say those, that with your pins, um, that one pin make sure that you leave a gap of at least two days before you share it to a different board. Um, just so you're not spamming and you're giving the user other content from your profile.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:20:05

Okay. So like, if I print, if I created the pin on Monday on Thursday or Friday, I could go in and add that to the different boards.

Lianne Harris: 00:20:12

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:20:13

So it sounds like if you, especially, if you're getting started and you're creating, I don't know, 20 pins or something, would it make more sense to, rather than. Go and add all these 20 pens and put them on your different boards. Would it make sense to add one on Monday one on Tuesday, repin something on Wednesday and eked out a little bit.

Lianne Harris: 00:20:32

Yeah, no, that would work, I'd probably say is if anything, maybe just do five pins to start with and do it like every day and then just rotate it on a five day basis. And then once a day, cause I have spreadsheets and I do recommend having spreadsheets. Cause if you do it manually, it then just helped. But there is Tailwind, which is a scheduler that you upload it. But as you upload the new state, the 10 boards that you want to pin it to, and then you tell it how many days. And the interval. So it will then automatically populate that for you. So rather than going through Pinterest and like every couple of days having to going back in, repin it to a different board and then finding it, it does it all for you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:21:17

Okay. And that was called Tailwind.

Lianne Harris: 00:21:19

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:21:20

That's yeah. That's really interesting. So I can see now that it could be not loads of work, but actually lots of thinking about, okay today, what am I going to pin and where am I going to move this to? I could totally see that you need something to keep organized. Yeah, there's definitely a lot more to it than I thought. Although saying that, thank you for making this sound. Straightforward um, it doesn't sound like it doesn't once you get going and you get some momentum, it probably gets easier. Am I right?

Lianne Harris: 00:21:48

Yes. It's quite seemed quite overwhelming. And there's a lot of information. It's not like with Instagram, we like upload a pretty image and just like, oh, hi everyone. Right. How are you today? Kind of thing. And then add some hashtag then. You've got to do your research to start with, but once you've got your pin and you know what you're going to be writing and where you want to share it to it, same kind of once it's done and it's out there. You just leave it and it kind of just builds its own momentum and you hope that it does well. And then if it doesn't you think, God just re-look at it. It's almost like a constant marketing strategy. If it's not doing well and your account's not doing well, then you've got to tweak it and see what's working.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:22:38

Yeah. And do you get many analytics on Pinterest? So can you go and see which pins are working and, and which aren't and things like that,

Lianne Harris: 00:22:44

you get lots. So it shows you your impressions. Uh, You've then got, uh, when people click on your pin just to look at your pin description, um, it shows you that, uh, so it tells you how many times people do that. How many times people save your pin? So if they save it to their own boards, um, that's another thing that you can see, obviously you see the traffic that if people click onto your website, um, There's that you can then see if, say you share something, then someone goes onto your website and share something else. They've created a pen from your website. So you can see that you're getting traffic because it's linking to your website, but you didn't create it yourself. So you can then still see that you could see what other people share in for all your content. Um, and that's really good because then it shows that people actually care about what you're doing and they like it enough that they want to show people your stuff, which is obviously always nice. But yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:53

And someone sharing your pin is that called a repin. You mentioned a repin earlier and I've been waiting to ask you about that's called.

Lianne Harris: 00:24:00

Yeah that's a repin,

Vicki Weinberg: 00:24:02

Okay And is sorry I've got so many questions is repinning something that you should be doing yourself. Um, I asked this because I have someone I was talking to for podcast interview that's already gone out. And, um, she was mentioned that she does really well on Pinterest. She gets lots of traffic, um, and she repins. Almost, I guess we would call them competitor pins on her boards. Um, it doesn't seem to affect the sale she gets. I just, and I just foudn that really interesting. So I've never heard of anybody doing that. So should she be repinning other people's things?

Lianne Harris: 00:24:36

Um, it's a bit of a. If you want to, um, back in the day, it used to be recommended that for every pin you did, you then repinnedthen another four of other peoples. However, that's not really the case now they're just saying to focus on your own content and make sure that the content you produce is good. However, um, if you do fashion. And then you want some jewelry to potentially compliment an item you're going to have to go elsewhere. And especially if you've got a model shoot, or if you want of your stylists and you want to show items, you're going to have to, um, and if you're doing interior design, if your service is interior design, you're going to have to repin. So I suppose it all kind of depends on what your business is. And obviously if you're a product based. It might work well, but if you're a product basis, say you sell kitchen items. So you're going to want to show. So you might go to places like Wix who shows a setup of a kitchen? If I make sense?

Vicki Weinberg: 00:25:48

Yeah, that does. So it might be things that say, like someone who, like I did a quick look like audit or something. So if you were selling kitchen utensils, let's say someone who was looking at kitchen utensils might also be interested on a boards of really glamorous kitchens or something.

Lianne Harris: 00:26:05

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:26:06

I dunno, all kitchen hacks or is it more thinking like that? Thinking, okay. Someone who likes my product might also like this type of content.

Lianne Harris: 00:26:15

Yeah. It's like complimentary things, but try to, don't create a separate board for. Include it in the board that you're pinning your content with because if someone finds comes across something that you've pinned, but isn't yours. So say, go with the example of the utensils and the glamorous kitchen. Someone sees the glamorous kitchen those clicks on it has a look and then sees that the person who pinned it was you, but then goes onto your profile or the board to have a look at what other content they've got, then they'll you, then they'll find your utensils and all your other wonderful utensils that you sell. And that is where you've potentially got the person because they found what you've repinned from someone else glamorous kitchen.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:27:05

That makes sense. Cause am I right in thinking that you can either follow an account or you can follow a board?

Lianne Harris: 00:27:12

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:27:12

I mean, I could say it's been a while since I used Pinterest personally, but I kind of remember that. So I guess, yes. So if your board is only somebody else's kitchens and someone follows that board, they've never seen anything of you, are they?

Lianne Harris: 00:27:24

Exactly? Yeah. So if you then have your content amongst that and try to, whereas before they said that, make sure that it was the re pins, that was the majority of the board, I would say, no. Make sure that your content is that majority of the board. And then just a few, repins that kind of like, I'd say highlight or shows us an example of how it can look in that. Cause at the end there is inspiration. You're meant to be giving people ideas on how they can do something. So, yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:27:59

Okay, that sounds good. But I suppose for anyone who's listening and thinking, this all sounds a lot of work, it's perfectly fine. Just to create and pin your own pins.

Lianne Harris: 00:28:08

Oh god yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:28:09

Don't worry about everything else that's really, that is really good to know. Cause you're right. When I had dabbled in Pinterest, which was, I want to say about two years ago now, I thought I'm going to have a go. And the advice then was exactly, as you're saying, you have to be doing this amount of re-pins and it all just seemed. They, you know, it seems a lot to keep on top of your own content and then look for other relevant content to repin. Um, I found that that actually took quite a bit of time, you know, just trawling through and thinking of what kind of competitors either.

Lianne Harris: 00:28:44

I had a client, they did jewelry and to try and find, and they wanted me to incorporate models of with using fashion. But to try and find a picture of a model on Pinterest without jewelry or jewelry, not being in sight. It took forever. And I was trying to explain to them that it was taking too much time away from actually repinning their content and creating new pins. It's impossible. So yeah, now they it's minimal. So much easier.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:29:16

And is it still the case? Um, cause I remember back when I was looking into this, that the more recent pins are shown at the top. If you search for something, is that still how Pinterest is ordered or was that changed now as well?

Lianne Harris: 00:29:28

Um, you can have it at the most recent boards because you have. Two tabs you got create, um, which are where you've uploaded directly on to Pinterest. And then it will show you an idea pins at the top. Sorry. Um, and then the second tab will have your boards and it will show you the most recent boards that have been saved to at the top, but then it has the first folder is all pins. So you can click on just all pins. It shows you everything that has been done on the account.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:30:04

Okay. But if you were going on as a user, let's say, and you're going on the search for, let's say earrings because we've used that example already where it's a new typing gold, gold hoop earrings into Pinterest. Are you going to see the most recent pinsfirstor the most relevant pins? First, the reason I ask that is back when I like, so I was having a go at Pinterest. It was all about the most recent ones go to the top. So you need to be pinning however many times a day to make sure yours is at the top. Is that still the case or has that changed now?

Lianne Harris: 00:30:32

No it has changed, straight away you're going to have the ads. So if you don't want to go for ads, then just skip down little bit. Um, they, they actually use an algorithm in the sense of they actually do. Um, based on what you think you would like, um, But if it's the first time you've ever looked, I don't actually know. I think it will be a mixture of the most popular and the most recent at the same time.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:31:11

Okay. And then the more you use it and understands kind of things you click on, I guess it's like Google or anything else. It kind of adapts to, to you as it learns more about you,

Lianne Harris: 00:31:21

the home feed, um, is a curation of everything that you've previously seen. So. Um, research and weddings and everything to do weddings. That's all you're going to see. I then, um, the other weeks I research in tattoos and tattoo inspirations, and that's literally everything covered my newsfeed. Pinterest is literally Disney quotes and tattoos.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:31:48

Okay. That's good, but I guess what's good about that is that it takes away the need to think. You have to be pinning constantly, constantly, constantly to stay at the top. So that's good. So I think it only, no, it sounds like all the changes that have happened on Pinterest are actually making it easier.

Lianne Harris: 00:32:04

Yeah, it's easier for business, but it's also it's it was done in the sense of to make the user experience better. So you look for something, you get given that answer. So you've got a problem. They solve it for you. And that's essentially what they're trying to get from the changes.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:32:23

It all sounds really positive for everyone. You mentioned ads then, and I'm going to come back to ads in a moment because I didn't even know you could do ads on Pinterest, but before that, let's just talk a little bit about actually creating the visuals on Pinterest. So the actual pins are that. Do you have any tips or guidance on how to, you know, best how to create really engaging pins that people will actually click on visually?

Lianne Harris: 00:32:48

Yeah. It's a 2:3 ratio I always do 1000 and 1000 by 1,500 pixels. Um, Canva is literally the be-all and end-all everyone needs to get Canva if you haven't already. Um, if you don't use the right ratio, um, Pinterest actually crops the image. So if you've got some text written across it and you're using the wrong size, then there's a risk that you end up having half of your writing cutoff. Make sure that the image you're using is clear crisp, and it should represent you as a business anyway. So if you have the blurry image, it's not going to look good. And it gives your brand a bad reputation from just from that image. So make sure that it's nice and clear need to make sure that you use your branding. So try to stick to the same font if you've got logo, um, it's the same colors, but at the same time, you want it to be eye catching. Um, but your branding should be eyecatching any way to an extent. Um, if you're going to be writing on the pin, um, make sure that you've, you can see clearly if you have. Use like a block background just to make it stand out. That's absolutely fine. Um, but make sure that the font is. Eligible now legible. There we go. There's a word, make sure it's clear. Make sure that people can actually read what you write in purely because that can actually be taken by Pinterest and placed. Um, so if people are looking for something specifically and you've got texts that matches it in terms of SEO, they can be able to show up in that, if they can't read it, they're not going to know where to place it. And it's just going to stay at the bottom of search. Um, try to keep all of your images consistent, um, in terms of that looks and the colors. Cause if you have a set template and people recognize you for all of that, then they're just going to be knowing that's that brand. And now if they like you, they're going to keep on looking at your content, um, because they see it as they're scrolling. Um, they do say that if you've got multiple images, On a pin actually does better in terms of engagement, then just have them one set image. So that might be something that you want to play with. Um, but whilst I say this. It's similar to Instagram with the 30 hashtags, some accounts have to have that 30 hashtags to do well. They, and some people say, oh, you can only need like seven or 11. And that works well for them. So it is a kind of try and test it, see what works for your account. But yeah, that's essentially what works.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:35:45

That was really good. Thank you. And in terms of the text, um, and I'm getting really specific here but is that like, I know it on some, on some platforms, I say all the text needs to be on the right or the left or the top of the bottom. Are there any rules like that when it comes to Pinterest or is it just, no, it needs to be legible and it doesn't really matter where you posted it.

Lianne Harris: 00:36:03

Legible I would definitely say try to. I always say, keep it similar to, on the stories on Instagram, where you've got the blue outline bit, the kind of shows you within a certain area. I would definitely say that in sense of the main text, um, don't put your logo in the bottom right-hand corner right-hand corner. Um, because when you're on your mobile, they have. I don't even know what it's called but it's like a little square and it can pick up, um, other things that are similar. So, you know, when you've got like more, more of these and you might like this, um, it picks that up. So then if you've got your logo on the bottom right hand corner, it gets covered by that on mobiles. So if that's the only place that you can put a logo within the image, it might be worth just actually writing your website address and put that along the bottom.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:37:00

a really good tip. Thank you. That's really good to know. But, so it sounds like if you create your image to the right ratio and yeah Canva sounds good. Cause obviously they have loads of templates and things as well don't they.

Lianne Harris: 00:37:10

They've got a template.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:37:11

Yeah. At least if you create it in Canva and it's the right ratio, nothing's going to get cutoff either. So that sounds like a really good way to go actually with creating pins. Cause I guess if you try and use the same in images you'd use on Instagram, for example, they're just not going to be sized. right are they and bits are going to get moved.

Lianne Harris: 00:37:28

You can resize it on Canva though, which is what's amazing. So if you want to repurpose exactly the same image, um, you can do that. It's just, I normally say, create your pin first and then condense it down. Cause then enlarge in it can sometimes then play around with the, uh, the quality of the image. So definitely try and do your pin first and then recopy and resize it. Into Instagram. Sorry.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:37:55

That's a great tip thank you I've never thought of actually doing it that way, but you're right. Because of course, if you're making the image larger, sometimes then it can distort slightly and then you get those or you get these gaps at the edges where it hasn't quite it. Doesn't quite fit. Yeah. So that's perfect. Thank you. And um, okay, so that's, so that's good. And I'm thinking as well, that we've. thinking for myself that I guess a good way of sort of working out how to make, create a pin is to go on Pinterest and look at people's pins as well, I suppose.

Lianne Harris: 00:38:27

Yep. And if you go onto Pinterest and look at competitors, um, a good thing, especially if you're starting out or even if not, if you're feeling like your accounts starting to either stagnate or it's dropping, looking at competitors account and sell what's working well for them. What do you like and try and put yourself in the customer's or the client's point shoes and see what would attract them to your competitors and that not directly copy, but take inspiration from it and then put your own voice and your own stamp.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:39:03

That makes sense. I think it's makes sense to look somewhere for inspiration because sometimes that's the hardest thing, isn't it just kind of working out your style and what sort of things you're going to pin and what they might look like. Um, but I'm sure that once you get going, especially it's good, because what you said about consistency. Cause I'm assuming that once you've got going, you're going to have some templates and it just gets easier and easier to create them.

Lianne Harris: 00:39:24

And literally it's just drag in, in a different image, quickly changing up the text and then you've got your fix. You're not then having to say, well, how shall I make it look this time? How can I make it look, this, if you've got any, if you keep it all, I've got, normally I've got about five or six different templates and I literally just have it in one file in Canva. And I literally just keep from scrolling and just dragging images in and it can be really quick.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:39:48

That's a really good tip. Thank you. And when it comes to the description, is there a character count for that or can it, well, I'm assuming, yeah, there is.

Lianne Harris: 00:39:57

Yeah. So you've got 500 characters in the pin description. Um, the board source, I need a description and there's 200 characters that, um, the more you use, the more chances you've got in being seen. Um, Make sure it flows organically. So don't literally just write keywords, make sure it's like a sentence. Um, for the first 100 characters are what seen before it has the read more often. So those are the most essential, um, and what should be the eyecatching and that the attention grabbing parts.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:40:36

Okay. So that's the bit that you absolutely would want someone to read and are the keywords to the keywords work like that as well as in, do you, should you have your most important keywords in that first 100 characters or does it not really matter where they are in the text?

Lianne Harris: 00:40:50

I don't think it matters. There's nothing out there to say specifically. So yeah, I think as long as it's in there, um, it's just, obviously in that first 100 characters is what you want to get the reader's attention. So try and make that like your big statement. We can help you do this.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:41:12

That makes sense. Thank you. And when you were mentioning, um, rich pins and pulling from your website, does I literally pull the text from your website if you create a pin or should you still be going in and creating your own descriptions?

Lianne Harris: 00:41:24

No, it'll pull literally everything. So, um, unfortunately if you're a jeweler, if you've got on your. Website, all the dimensions and everything for the bottom that all gets pulled through. The only downside to Pinterest is that they don't understand what new paragraphs are. So in terms of format, then it all just becomes one big square. Um, so when it comes to the rich pins, it can be slightly frustrating. However, they do have the ability that when you upload it, um, you can write your own description. So when you look at a pin, you have your description on the right hand side, but you can also have another bit of a description right at the bottom. And when you so the rich pin information is at the top and then near the bottom is what you can write, but no one really pays attention to that. So you can do it. But this is where it gets frustrating with the rich pins. And if you have Shopify is probably actually going to be better.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:42:34

Okay. That makes sense. Thank you. And the I'm trying to visualize it. I feel like I should have Pinterest up while we're talking, but that, I think that also would be a massive distraction. So I'm not going to do that.

Lianne Harris: 00:42:44

This is the one thing that's frustrating about doing a podcast when you're talking about Pinterest, because it's so visual and there are so many complex elements to it. Um, That it can make it hard to try and visualize. And especially if you're learning about it it is very hard. Um, but all I would say is that ugly, rich pins, they do work. Um, but if you don't have dimensions and all of that extra little nitty gritty, it will be perfect for you. Um, yeah. Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:43:16

So I think as soon as we finished wherever you are, wherever you're talking, like we are or listening. I think going straight to Pinterest is probably a really good idea and that's exactly what I'm going to do and having a little play. Um, if that sounds like a great idea. So I've only got a few more questions Lianne, which I hope is okay. I promise. I promise I'm wrapping up. I did. I did warn you. I did have lots of questions. There is, we might have to get you back at some point and go into a bit more. Um, so you were mentioning Pinterest ads. I don't want to go into massive detail on that, but, um, what, yeah. Is there anything you want to talk about?

Lianne Harris: 00:43:55

Um, so ads are actually the cheapest paid ads out there at the moment, um, which is amazing. Um, so it's essentially you just set up a pin, um, And then you can say what your demographic is. So what I would suggest is that anyone that's only just starting on Pinterest don't do ads. Um, whilst it was sorry, I'm just trying to move my cat I've got a dead leg. I. Um, I would definitely recommend for those just starting out, try and get your audience, try and get people to find you to be established. Um, usually that takes between three and six months because Pinterest is a long game. Um, but once you do get started into ads, you can then do your demographic. It's even amazing to the point that you can try to pinpoint the type of. The type of, I want to say a computer, if it's a mobile, if it's a tablet, um, you can literally home in literally every detail on the age. So if anyone's done any other kind of, um, ad online before anyway, you'll be able to, um, I, I think it's more detailed in what you can pinpoint. Um, but it's essentially just uploaded in a pin. And then once your ad has finished it, then reverts straight back to a normal post to a normalpin. Whereas in other places, once your ads campaign stopped, then your ad disappears.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:45:36

Okay. So it's just like promoting a post on Instagram, I guess, is the equivalent. You were just promoting that for a set space of time.

Lianne Harris: 00:45:45

No, no, no, it's not because you can promote to Penn, but at the same time, you can then create an ad. So on Instagram, you've got the boost post, and then you can create the ad. So it's similar. So if you would just to promote it, just to give it a quick boost. So if you've got something that organically is doing amazing, just to keep it doing amazing, you can then promote that pin, but to create a specific. So if you've got a new product being launched, you can then create the ad. But once that ad finishes, it's not going to disappear like every other ads on every other social platform.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:46:27

I understand the difference now. So you're creating it as an ad rather than promoting a pin that already exists. Perfect. Thank you. But it sounds like you'd be better off getting started on Pinterest. See what works and what doesn't, before you think about advertising any of your pins?

Lianne Harris: 00:46:43

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. You need to establish yourself. Cause I normally say the first couple of months, you need to let Pinterest know you're there and then they'll discover you. Um, once they've discovered you and you're starting to get traction. You then need to let your audience know that you're there. Um, and then by the six months point, you shouldn't have a couple of months of each of them steps being taken, and then you can start see some kind of regularity on being seen. Um, while six months is a long time in terms of social media. A tweet. only lasts 2 minutes a Facebook posts only last eight minutes in terms of being seen on your newsfeed and the chance of being seen, um, Pinterest last three months. So the longevity and you can have a pin and 32 weeks later, it could still be getting traction because it's still, so that's the best thing about that. Doesn't disappear. You can still find it.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:47:46

Yeah. Cause it sounds like the more people that repin it or, or even guess click-throughs where is that? What affects how much it's still seen. So I'm assuming that if you have a pin that does very well and lots of people are constantly repinning. Does that mean that that one will be potentially easier to find ongoing until the popularity drops off. Then obviously it will probably go further down the search results, I imagine.

Lianne Harris: 00:48:09

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:48:10

So that's yeah, but that's actually really, that's actually really good way to think about it. Cause you're right. Um, on Instagram and Facebook, people miss so much, but I mean, I guess that's the other thing is that Pinterest isn't a social media platform, which I think lots of people, myself included sometimes have had that conception, that it was a social media platform, but actually is a search engine.

Lianne Harris: 00:48:30

That's the thing people do see it as a social media platform but it's not, but they are take, they do take inspiration and they are trying. I say trying to keep users within the platform now, whereas before it was all a case of trying to get them on to the people's websites, take them outside. Um, they are still trying to, they've now got idea pins. So they're almost like stories. Um, but they don't disappear after 24 hours, they stay around. Um, but they don't allow you to click out of the Pinterest and go to a website. Uh, they are introducing where you can tag profiles, they can tag your own profile and then you can lead them back to your profile, which then shows them everything that you do, which then of course will help with sales and taking them outside the website.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:49:26

Okay. Thank you. So it definitely sounds like, unless you can tell me otherwise there aren't really any downsides and as long as you've got a bit of time, it sounds like it could definitely work, be worth giving it a go at.

Lianne Harris: 00:49:39

Yeah, no, there's. I would say the only downside that I would currently say is the fact that they are trying to keep it within the platform, but there are still ways around it. It's just an extra couple of clicks uh, it's still user friendly because people still see as that social media they've taken on things from Instagram, with the idea pins, they are very much stories from Instagram. They've now got a new thing called Takes, which is almost similar to Tik Tok in the sense of people, then comment and link their own videos into it, um, or their own pins in. So it's very much, they're taken inspiration from social media. But at the same time, they're still keeping it as a search engine.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:50:25

Okay. And I guess if anything that might get new and different people using it as well.

Lianne Harris: 00:50:30

Yeah. I think that's what the, I think that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to lower the demographic of the users to more like, I want to say millennials, but millennials apparently are getting old, which upsets me. So yeah, the generation Zed is it. I think they're trying to, there's a lot more on Pinterest of that age range. So I think that's why they're trying to keep, TikTok and Instagram.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:50:55

Okay. Well, I am convinced anyway, that it's worth, at least having a go I'm actually quite excited to go and have a look and then potentially so yeah, give it a, go create some pins and see and see what happens. Cause I mean, let's as well. It is a free platform. So I suppose if all you're going to lose, I guess essentially is time, but it sounds like. With, you know, doing a bit of work to get to set up correctly that, yeah, it sounds like it could be really beneficial. So, yeah, I'm definitely going to give it a go. Thank you. Um, so I've just got one final question, um, before we finish Lianne, which, um, and this might be hard one, and don't worry if you have to repeat something you said already, but what would you be your top Pinterest tip right now?

Lianne Harris: 00:51:36

Um, I actually I can do 2. I couldn't whittle down to any less. So I would say to keep an eye out for what's the current trend. So where I've said before about looking at the trends on through analytics. It just enables you to be able to make sure that what you're doing is best. Um, and if it's working or if it's not, you can then choose to delay it. But also when it comes to seasonal content, start doing it a few months before. So now where everyone's doing in the lead up to Christmas, um, or they should have been doing it already. If you start doing Valentine's day saying at the beginning of December, Then when it gives then got a couple of months before Valentine's day hits. So people, you will be fresh in people's minds. And so, yeah, just saw the, any seasonal holiday that your business can take part in promote it a few months before.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:52:33

That's really good advice. Thank you so much. All of that. Yeah. This has been so useful and inspiring as well, because I feel like it's definitely something that we can go and have a go at and see if it works. I thank you so much. I really liked talking to you. Thank you so much for listening all the way to the end of this episode. If you've enjoyed it, please do leave me review that really helps other people to find this podcast. Make sure you subscribe. So you don't miss any future episodes and do tell your friends about it too. If you think that they also might enjoy it, can find me at www.Vickiweinberg.com. There you'll find links to all of my social channels. You'll find lots of more information all of the past podcast, episodes and lots of free resources too. So again, that's www.vickiweinberg.com. Take care, have a good week and see you next time.