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Today on the podcast, I’m speaking to Hari Fell. After running her own hotel for the past 20 years, Hari decided she wanted a new challenge. Having given up alcohol in 2019, she launched Nolo Cocktails and Bars, bringing choice to people who choose not to drink through non-alcoholic cocktail subscriptions, gift boxes, and a mobile alcohol-free bar.

This was a great conversation with Hari about her subscription business for people who don’t want to drink alcohol but want exciting drink choices. We spoke a lot about how she develops her drinks and sources ingredients, as well as the practicalities of running a subscription business.

  • An introduction to herself and her business (01:24)
  • The inspiration for setting up Nolo Cocktails (01:52)
  • Creating the recipes (04:56)
  • Finding suppliers (06:33)
  • Curating her subscription boxes (08:42)
  • Why she chose the subscription box model (11:43)
  • The appeal of the subscription box model (14:48)
  • Packing the boxes (16:30)
  • Why having a niche product makes the marketing a little easier (18:22)
  • Having a pop up in John Lewis and working with The Great Brand Exchange (20:54)
  • Her number one piece of advice for product creators (24:55)

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Transcript
Vicki Weinberg:

Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea to Life podcast. This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products, or if you'd like to create your own product to sell. I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly, practical advice, as well as inspirational stories from small businesses. Let's get started. Hello, so today on the podcast, I'm speaking to Hari Fell. So having run her own hotel for the past 20 years, Hari decided she wanted a new challenge. Having given up alcohol in 2019, she decided to launch Nolo Cocktails and Bars, bringing choice of when people choose not to drink, through non alcoholic cocktail subscriptions and gift boxes and a mobile alcohol free bar. So this was a really great conversation I had with Hari, um, Hari offers, as I just mentioned, a subscription business for people who don't want to drink alcohol, but want some really exciting drink choices. So we spoke a lot about how she pulls together her drinks and the ingredients, um, the practicalities of running a um, subscription business. I really hope you find this episode both interesting and inspiring and I would love now to introduce you to Hari. So hi Hari, thank you so much for being here.

Hari Fell:

Thanks so much for having me.

Vicki Weinberg:

Oh, you're welcome. Can we start with you? Please give an introduction to you, your business and what you sell.

Hari Fell:

Yeah, of course. Uh, my name is Hari Fell and I'm the founder of Nolo Cocktails and Bars. And, um, we sell non alcoholic cocktail, um, subscription and gift boxes. And then we also have a mobile horsebox bar that we take to events and festivals. Um, and we do just non alcoholic drinks and cocktails at the festivals.

Vicki Weinberg:

Amazing. Thank you. Um, what, what has inspired you to start Nolo Cocktails?

Hari Fell:

So, well, two things really. First of all, I gave up drinking four and a half years ago. Um, at the time, there were some non alcoholic options available, but they weren't massive. Um, and they were reasonably basic. So, seed lip has just come onto the market at that time. And then, um, there was like Nozeko, which is your bog standard sparkling non alcoholic wine and actually it's not bad and it's very cheap, um, but now there is a lot more options out there, um, and that was part of my reasoning for doing it that I wanted to be able to show people how to use the products that were available in different ways and more exciting ways than just combining them with tonic water. Um, and also in a way that meant that they could try the different things that were available without committing to buying large bottles and, um, and then reducing waste and things like that as well. If they didn't like it, they haven't bought a massive bottle. Um, and then the other reason for starting Nolo Cocktails was that, um, I've been running a hotel for the past 20 years and I fancied a new challenge, um, and to do something a bit different as well. So that, that was my personal reason for looking to do something different.

Vicki Weinberg:

Well, that's really interesting. Thank you. And I think you're right. If you look back, even a few years ago, I don't think there were that many non alcoholic options. You know, if you went to a bar or something, it was like have a Coke or a lemonade, if you didn't want water, if you didn't want to have a drink. And now it seems like everywhere you go, it's got lots more non alcoholic, like interesting options on the menus.

Hari Fell:

Yeah, which is brilliant. And you know, just providing people with that choice, I think it's really important. And it just means that you're more part of it as well. I think that's the thing that a lot of people worry about when they're giving up alcohol is that, you know, going to the pub then becomes a very different prospect and they don't feel part of it and they want something that's like an adult drink rather than just something like a diet coke, but obviously without the alcohol in it. So the fact that there's so many beers now available, ciders. There's options for everything now.

Vicki Weinberg:

And what's really nice about your boxes is that they contain ingredients, don't they, so that people can make their own non alcoholic drinks at home, which is also quite fun because it's not just giving someone a non alcoholic beer or cider, you're actually giving them recipes to create their own drinks.

Hari Fell:

Yeah, and you get all of the ingredients that you need, um, to make those drinks. whether that's the garnish, so dehydrated orange, um, for example, or whether it's all the different, you know, syrups, mixes, um, juices and non alcoholic spirits. So you get everything you need to make the drinks and you get, um, all of the ingredients to make at least two, um, servings of three different cocktails every month.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's amazing. That's, yeah, that's, that's actually, that's actually a lot. Um, And how are you creating the recipes for the cocktails, Hari? Is that from your, like, experience running the hotel and bar or how are you working out? Because, yeah, I just find this sort of thing fascinating how you know what goes with what and how you actually put a drink together.

Hari Fell:

So, um, my starting point is normally the supplier's website if I'm working with a non alcoholic spirit and then trial and error. So, I normally take, you know, I can go through lots and lots of different variations just trying to get the balance right on the ingredients. Um, some, you know, I don't want to make all of the cocktails really sweet. Some people like sweet drinks, but then other people like really sour drinks. So it's just trying to get the balance right as well. And they're having at least sort of one that might be sweeter, but then one that might be more sour. So that there's something hopefully in each box that everyone loves. Um, even if the other ones that they're less keen on, it's a good way to try different things and realize what you do and you don't like as well.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah, I guess that must be quite fun, actually.

Hari Fell:

Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah, no, I mean, it's fun doing the recipes and trying to get the balance right. Um. Uh. Yeah, I do drink quite a lot of cocktails.

Vicki Weinberg:

But at least they're non alcoholic.

Hari Fell:

Yeah, exactly. yeah. No, I mean, I can be doing it, you know, 10 o'clock in the morning and it's fine. I don't have to worry about it. Um, and I can always drive afterwards. So it's fine.

Vicki Weinberg:

That is good. So you mentioned that you often like what you're getting from a supplier is the starting point. So how, talk a little bit about that process. So do you, how do you find suppliers that, you know, to source your products from?

Hari Fell:

Um, so in terms of sourcing products, what I've done so far is I've really tried to keep, um, it to small UK based suppliers. Um, so what's involved in sort of going to industry events, um, networking within the non alcoholic industry, you know, LinkedIn's a great place to, to connect with people. Um, and yeah, and yeah, search engines, social media, just trying to find people that way. Um, and there's quite a lot of small UK based brands. Um, so I've really, I love championing small businesses and I think. When we all do well, we all do well. So, uh, very much of that mindset. Um, and so far I haven't really had to go further afield than the UK to find the suppliers that I'm working with.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's brilliant. And are you working with the same suppliers for every box or are you trying to feature as many different ones as possible? I mean, I guess that's. Yeah, there's probably a bit of both, I imagine.

Hari Fell:

Um, yeah, so some suppliers will obviously have different, quite a few different products. Um, for example, Anon Drinks, they do a bittersweet aperitif, they do a rum, they do an English garden, which is like Pimm's, um, and, um, they do their own bottled Negroni as well. So with, um, a company like that. I've got several different boxes that I can do from the one company, but I do, I wouldn't do five months of Anon just because they've got five different products. So I'll choose one product. Um, and then concentrate on that for that month, and then I'll choose a completely different supplier for the next month. So I try and mix it up as much as possible so that people that are getting the subscription boxes get that range and variety as well.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah, I guess it's also a nice way for your customers to discover new brands and new products.

Hari Fell:

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I mean, for example, sort of on the rums, there's quite a lot of non alcoholic rums. Um, so try and spread them out so that it's not rum, a different rum every month. But, um, actually the rums are really good on the non alcoholic side. All the suppliers seem to have done an amazing job with their rums.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's really interesting, because I'll be honest I haven't tried many non-alcoholic drinks. I think I've tried gin and cider I think are the main ones. Um, and the Nosecco, whatever it's called. Um, because every supermarket seems to do a version of that. So that's really interesting. I hadn't thought about the fact that there are now more non alcoholic spirits.

Hari Fell:

Yeah, there's quite a wide range. Um, you've got a large supplier, um, called Lyre's who are actually based in Australia. And I think they've got a version of everything that is non alcoholic, that is alcoholic. They've got the non alcoholic version. Um, so that can be quite a good place to start for people. But, um, I actually haven't used Lyre's in any of my boxes. Um, and that's because they're not UK based, but with the, the rums are really good. Um, the gins, there's lots of different non alcoholic gin varieties out there. Um, my personal favorites, New London Light, they do three different gins and they're all lovely. Um, so yeah, I mean, there's also some not very nice stuff out there. So I do, do make sure whatever goes in my boxes that I personally like. Um, I appreciate we all have different tastes, but I certainly don't want to be sending something out that I don't enjoy.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah, that makes, that makes total sense. You're right, actually. I've, um, I've tried lots of you of these no seco's and some of them are actually, some of them are nice and some of them can be just a bit, I don't know. Sugary, which isn't, which again, isn't to my taste, but of course it's to somebody else that might be lovely, but yeah, it is, it is hard, isn't it? So I guess it's great that you're trying to get a balance across the boxes and try, you know, different, different types of drinks, different flavours, and how far in advance are you having to plan out what goes into each one? Because your boxes are, um, your subscription boxes are monthly, aren't they?

Hari Fell:

Yeah, so, um, at least a month in advance, I'll know what I'm putting in the next month's box. Um, I'm trying to do it sort of on a quarterly basis, sort of planned out at the beginning of the year, what main spirit was going in each box, um, and the theme of each box. But then sort of quarterly looking at, actually, okay, I've got, for example, Anon's Rum. What am I going to do with it? What, what are going to be the, the three cocktails that we do, um, with that? So trying to do that planning on a quarterly basis, but make sure that at least a month in advance, I know what I'm sending out the following month.

Vicki Weinberg:

That makes sense. And I guess I know I'm asking lots of logistic questions, but I think for anyone interested in a subscription box model, I think it's just going to be really fascinating and interesting. Um, because actually that's a good point, actually. So what, um, what made you decide to go down the subscription box route as opposed to selling? Because I know you have some boxes you can buy year round, that's correct, isn't it, on your website?

Hari Fell:

Yeah, so I've got gift boxes as well. It started off that I was just thinking I would just do subscription boxes, um, but actually I found, I launched, um, I did a really soft launch in November last year, um, and I actually found that the one off subscription boxes sold really well in the run up to Christmas. I was just doing a couple of small Christmas fairs. Um, and, you know, there's often times where maybe you want to gift something to somebody. They might be pregnant or doing dry January. Um, and actually there's, there's quite a big market, I think, for, for one off boxes. Um, but yeah, it started with, I was going to do it as a subscription model. Um, for people that, you know, want a choice when they're not drinking. Um, and I think I just found somebody online actually. I was just wondering, kind of thinking what other business I could do apart from the hotel, and this has worked out quite nicely actually because there's quite a large element of hospitality. And obviously I've got lots of bar experience. Um, and as a result of launching Nolo, we now have expanded our range at the hotel as well of non alcoholic cocktails and wines. So it's, it's kind of fitted into both, both businesses really, really nicely.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah, that makes total sense, actually, given your hospitality background. Um, yeah, that really, that really does. And as you said, you probably have contacts as well for suppliers and...

Hari Fell:

Yeah, that, I mean, that definitely made it easier. My original idea was that I thought I'd do cocktail boxes, um, but then actually... Um, well, two thoughts that led me to do non alcoholic. First of all, was just niching. And, you know, everybody says that it's better to niche and have your area of expertise. And then also the realization that I don't drink. So if I was making new cocktails, I wouldn't be tasting them, or I'd have to taste them and then spit it out again. Um, so, um, it just made sense really to concentrate on the non alcoholic market.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah. And I think that is fairly niche. I don't know. I mean, I have seen cocktail box subscriptions, but I know, and also you can get the gin ones and the rum ones and you can get subscription boxes for all kinds of things. But am I right in thinking you're the only, or at least among the few non alcoholic cocktail boxes?

Hari Fell:

Um, I know of one other in the UK, um, but they're doing something slightly different and they're concentrating more on, um, non alcoholic spirits and mixes. So it's less of kind of the, the cocktails, you know, less getting out the cocktail shaker or building, um, different ingredients into the cocktails. So theirs is more, they, they, they describe themselves as a non alcoholic subscript, spirit subscription box. So that it is different.

Vicki Weinberg:

Oh, so you've definitely found a niche there.

Hari Fell:

Yeah. Yeah. I think so. Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, what is it that appealed to you about the subscription model? Because you know, to me, I feel like, oh gosh, it seems like hard work that you've got to every month, think of, you know, what goes in and then presumably package the boxes every month. And, um, yeah, what was it that, what was it that made you think, oh, actually subscription would be the way to go?

Hari Fell:

Um, well, I thought it would be quite a nice sort of like recurring revenue model that, um, you know, once you know, provided obviously people are happy with their subscriptions, they are welcome to cancel at any time, but, you know, you'd hopefully keep the same person at least for a few months, if not longer, um, provided the quality is there on the boxes. And so it just seemed like it, it seemed like potentially an easier way rather than just selling one off boxes all the time. You know, you'd be looking for fewer new customers every month. Um, because whilst there's a churn obviously on subscription boxes, you know, as I say, if you've got somebody for, you know, six to ten months. Um, that's easier than trying to find six to ten people to buy one off boxes. So that was the reason for trying the subscription model.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah. And you're right. That does make total sense because I mean, I guess they were always going to be a percentage of people who unsubscribe. Hopefully there'll be a high percentage of people who sign up every month.

Hari Fell:

Yeah, exactly. So yeah. Yeah. Obviously the plan every month for a subscription business is to build your subscribers. You know you'll lose if you, um, but hopefully you're bringing in more than you're losing.

Vicki Weinberg:

And logistically, again, because I've got so many questions about the logistics of this, are you pulling together, physically putting the boxes together yourself?

Hari Fell:

Yes, so at the moment I'm not big enough to, um, pay anybody to help me, so I'm doing all the boxes myself. I do have a unit now, um, nearby that I use to, for storage and also to pack the boxes as well.

Vicki Weinberg:

But that's really nice though, because I guess this is, this is the sort of thing where you can be doing it yourself now, but, you know, in a couple of years it can be something that somebody else could be doing for you, and you could just be focusing on the bits that you enjoy. Yeah. Researching the drinks and, and sourcing components and things like that.

Hari Fell:

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I think it's just the same with any new business, isn't it? Initially you do everything yourself and then you hope that you get big enough that you can start to outsource the bits that you don't enjoy. I think that's got to be everybody's reason for going into business for themselves.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah. Absolutely. But I think what's really good is it sounds like it's a model where somebody else could do it for you. You're not creating something that can't be outsourced if you see what I mean.

Hari Fell:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

Because depending on the kind of products you sell, you know, sometimes if you're hand making for example, obviously that's a lot harder to.

Hari Fell:

Yeah. Yeah. No, exactly. I mean, yeah. Um, packing the boxes is, is really easy. So, you know, anybody can pack, pack the boxes really. It's um, curating the boxes, putting them together, and then coming up with the recipes. That's, that's the bit that I need to do. Yeah. But actually, the putting the boxes together is quite simple and manual.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah. So at some point along the line, hopefully that will be something that you won't be doing.

Hari Fell:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. One day.

Vicki Weinberg:

Okay. So how are you, um, something else I'm quite curious about, if you don't mind me asking, is how are you sort of getting the word out about your boxes and what you offer? Because it's, as you say, it's relatively niche. Do you think that in terms of marketing, does that make it easier or? Less easy.

Hari Fell:

I think in a way it's easier because, um, you know, I accept that my product isn't for everybody. Um, so it's easier to niche down, um, and know that you're not going to speak to everybody. I think if you've got a product where actually anybody could buy it, then I think you would be more tempted to try lots of different marketing techniques. Whereas, actually, I'm only speaking to a small percentage of the population, um, that, that does make it easier. I mean, in terms of, of marketing, it's something that I need to now concentrate more on. I've been, um, working very much in my other business until the last couple of weeks, actually. So now is my time to really concentrate on Nolo. Um, it's taken longer than I thought to kind of take myself out of the other business. Um, and so now I need to concentrate on the marketing and the marketing I'll be doing is, um, email marketing, which I think is incredibly effective. So anything to build my email list of subscribers. And then social media, you know, I think for most of us is a, is an absolute must. Um, so mainly for me, that will probably be Facebook and Instagram. And then, um, in the run up to Christmas, I'm doing lots of Christmas markets and I've got a pop up booked at John Lewis in Bristol as well for a week. So I'm hoping, yeah, which is great. So I, I'm hoping, you know, all of that, it's just being visible, isn't it? Sort of, you know, and trying to get where you think your customers will be.

Vicki Weinberg:

Absolutely. But I'm sure there's plenty coming up with Christmas and then dry January, of course, as well.

Hari Fell:

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So what I'll be selling at the Christmas fairs is, and in John Lewis, because I've got that in November, is, um, I'll be selling, um, Christmas cocktail boxes, a dry January box and a celebration box with New Year coming up so you know all the fizzy, nice bubbly drinks.

Vicki Weinberg:

I think that sounds brilliant and so well thought through as well. And if you don't mind me asking, how, how do you get the, um, the slot in John Lewis? I've heard of a few small brands doing that recently, and I know John Lewis are real supportive of small businesses. So is that something you have to apply for in your local store or is it something?

Hari Fell:

I got it through the Great Brand Exchange. So I applied through the Great Brand Exchange. They do, um, they. They do John Lewis, they do Primark, and they do, they've got the Country Living Christmas Fair, and they do a few others as well. But they do all of the John Lewis ones, so I applied through them to do it. Um, and you can, you can say which John Lewis's you want to go to, um, and Bristol for them is actually quite a new one. So they've only just started in Bristol. Um, and that's my nearest John Lewis. So it kind of made sense to start there. It kind of minimizes the need to, well, minimizes the cost because I don't need to stay anywhere. I can come home every night.

Vicki Weinberg:

Well, that's brilliant. So that's the great brand exchange. If anyone wants to go and take a look and see what the opportunities are. Oh, that's brilliant. And I think coming back to your marketing, I do think that what's a real advantage I think is that, you know, we, you're really clear on who your customers are and of course who they aren't. Um, yeah, just coming back to something you were saying before, I think that is definitely an advantage because if you're going, what, there's nothing wrong with buying wide by the way. Lots of people have products that can appeal to a group of people, but I think that can, that can actually be really challenging in itself. If there's different groups of people who might buy your product or a real wide range, I definitely think you've got a really clear idea of who it is your selling to, and I think that must be really beneficial because you know exactly who you're talking to.

Hari Fell:

Yeah, I think it is. I think it makes it easier. I think, you know, it's very easy as small business owners to get overwhelmed by all the different things that we need to do. Um, and I think if you're speaking to lots of different people about your product, that probably is more overwhelming than just thinking, well, you know, there's just a small subsection of the population that I need to speak to. Um, and different groups to go into on Facebook and, you know, promote your things. You know, I'm not going into lots of different groups. Um, I'm just going into ones that are very specific for the non alcoholic and non drinkers. and people looking to get sober. So it's very specific. And I think, I think that does make it easier and less overwhelming.

Vicki Weinberg:

Absolutely. And actually you just also mentioned Facebook groups. That's also a really good way, I guess, of getting your products out. If you have got a product like yours, that's targeting a certain niche or a certain demographic, there are Facebook groups, everything on there. So it seems that getting into those groups and of course, it's also an actual fit for you because you mentioned that you gave up drinking. So you're, I guess you're naturally part of that community. Yeah. As well. So you're not just in there to sell, presumably you're also a member of that community because that's your community.

Hari Fell:

Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, I mean, I think if you're in any Facebook groups, you can't be in there just to sell. You have to be in it for the value. You know, um, if people are in several non alcoholic groups and, you know, people will be asking for advice either on, you know, what's the best red wine or what's, you know, how did everyone deal with this situation. So it's just making sure you're commenting on all of those and actually being a social member of the group as well as promoting your own product.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah, that's what I mean, because I feel like you're, as you're part of that community, you're part of the community anyway. But if there's an opportunity, if someone says, oh, I'm looking for a good gift for someone who's recently given up drinking, or I don't know what I'm going to drink at New Year. Presumably you can also talk about what you sell, but in a really nice natural way, because you're, yeah, you're part of that community. Well, thank you so much, Hari. I'm going to be linking to your website in the show notes. Everyone can see your boxes. So I see your one off boxes as well as your subscriptions. Um, my final question before we finish, and I ask everybody this is what is your number one piece of advice for other product creators?

Hari Fell:

Oh, wow. Okay. Number one piece of advice is, um, don't give up. I think it's really easy to, um, be overwhelmed and put off when things start going wrong. It's going to take a while. Expect it to take a minimum, I would say, of one to two years before you are successful. And you have to be willing to put in that hard work to make it work. Um, but along the way, there will be lots of things that happen that make you feel that like you want to give up and don't always think, always think back to, you know, you're three feet away from gold and success lies at the point where most people will have already given up. So you've got to be the person that sticks at it the longest.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's really good advice. Thank you. I think you're absolutely right there. Yeah. I don't think you know, there's always a little bit of hardship. And I remember you, when you talked earlier about you thought you would have steps away from your other business, but sooner, I think everything takes longer than you think it's going to as well. And I think that's just really worth knowing because I think we all have these plans of, oh, I have this done by the end of the year, or I'll be here in six months or whatever, but I think just accepting that you get one, it will be hard and two, it will always invariably take longer. Um, it's just really worth knowing. So thank you. That's a really, that's a really, really good reminder because things very rarely go the way we expect them to.

Hari Fell:

Yeah. And I think the overnight successes that you see that are out there, they're not overnight successes. They've worked for years to get to that point. Um, and it's just all you've seen is the successful bits. And I think that can be you know, misleading, not that they're trying to mislead us, but the way that inevitably things work is we think, oh, they've come from nowhere and they're amazing. But actually we haven't seen the four or five years that they've been toiling away at their craft before they've hit that success. So yeah. I think that's always true.

Vicki Weinberg:

That is such a good reminder, because it's really funny, isn't it? It almost as if we think someone, I don't know, as soon as someone or something comes into our consciousness, into our world somehow, we think they've just appeared, you know, and without realising actually this products or this person could have been around for the past 10 years. We just didn't hear of them. Yeah. But it's funny, until someone comes into your universe somehow you just, you just assume they don't exist. Yeah. Um, so that's a really good reminder because I think we are all definitely guilty of that, of going, oh, that's come out of nowhere, or, oh, I didn't know they were doing that. So yeah, you're right. And I think the worst thing we can do is compare ourselves to anybody, because as you say, you just don't know the backstory. You don't know how long someone else has taken to get there, what they've gone through. And of course the grass is always greener. It always looks like everyone else has got it figured out. And yeah, it's done it much easier, but that's, I think that's very rarely the actual case.

Hari Fell:

Yeah, it's always making sure that you're looking at how far you've come rather than we always look at how far we want to go and we don't sometimes look backwards and think, actually, you know, I have achieved quite a lot this year. It may not be as much as you set out to achieve. It may not have been as much as you wanted, but I'm sure that you've achieved a lot in that time. And so it's looking at that and saying, right, what have I achieved? What have I learned? And how can I take that forward now and move forward?

Vicki Weinberg:

That's such a lovely reminder. Thank you. And I, I think that everyone should do that now. I think we're coming to the end of the podcast. I think everyone should take five minutes. Have a cup of tea and think about how far you've gone, because you're, that's a, you're right. Because even if you think that, oh, I haven't done much, you know, you haven't stood still, we've all achieved loads. This, you know, by the time this goes out, it'll be towards the end of the year. But we all will have done loads this year and gone much further than we think. So thank you. That's such a lovely reminder and such a nice way to end. Thank you so much, Hari.

Hari Fell:

Thank you very much for having me.

Vicki Weinberg:

I'm so glad.

Hari Fell:

Really enjoyed it.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you so much for listening right to the end of this episode. Do remember that you can get the full back catalogue and lots of free resources on my website, vickiweinberg. com. Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful. Thank you again and see you next week.