Silke Thistlewood helps women adjust to motherhood through realistic self care and everyday resilience tools. 

I actually interviewed Silke for my blog around a year ago, but her story is so good I wanted you to hear her share it.

She’s a great example of someone creating something they need and using it to help others.

I can’t wait for you to hear her story and her great advice.  We jump around a bit, laugh a bit and I ask Silke one question that completely floored her…

Listen in to hear:

  • What made Silke decide to create a physical product (3:00)
  • What her product is and who it’s for (4:18)
  • How her customer has actually turned out not to be the person she had in mind (6:13)
  • What inspired Silke to create her product – hint, she created what she needed (8:00)
  • How and why her cards got a rebrand (11:00)
  • How and why she involved her community in the design of her product (12:00)
  • What she learnt from her product launch and what she’d do differently (14:30)
  • The process of creating her product (17:00)
  • The main thing she learnt from the process (21:00)
  • The benefits of having a physical product (26:00)
  • Her number one piece of advice for other product creators (27:16)

USEFUL RESOURCES

Raise Up Mums Resilience Cards

Raise Up Mums Facebook page

Raise Up Mums Community

Raise Up Mums Instagram

My product validation online couse

LET’S CONNECT

Find me on Instagram

Work with me

Transcript
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Welcome to the Bring Your Product Ideas to Life podcast,

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practical advice and inspiration to help you create and sell

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your own physical products. Here's your host. Vicki Weinberg.

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I am so excited today to share an interview with

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Silke Thistlewood from Raise up Mums so Silke, it helps

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women or just to motherhood through realistic self care and

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everyday resilience tools. She ran an online business until she

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decided that she wanted to add a physical product to

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her offering. I actually interviewed Silke for my blog around

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a year ago, but her story is so good. I

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wanted you to hear her share it herself. She is

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a fantastic example of someone creating something they need, and

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then using it to help others. I actually met Silke

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at via our other business, the raise up business club,

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which is a fantastic local networking group. Silke is a

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very well-known and respected in our local community I'd call

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her a local celebrity.

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She probably wouldn't, Silke actually worked with me on a

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very early version of my course, although this interview is

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not really about that at all. And I can't wait

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for you to hear her story. We jump around a

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little bit in here and it doesn't go entirely is

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a plan. We laugh a lot and I asked her

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what Silke are one question that completely floored her and

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well, you can listen on to hear her response. If

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you'd like to find out more about Raise Up Mums,

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all of the notes will be in the show or

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all of the links you need will be in the

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show notes, but you can find her at RaiseUpMums.co.uk and

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on Facebook it's Raise up Mums and she also has

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a fantastic community for moms again on Facebook.

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And I will link that in the show notes. So

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I really hope you enjoy this interview of Silke. Okay,

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so welcome Silke. So let's start by telling us a

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bit about yourself and your business, please.

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Okay. Thank you. Thank you for having me on your

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podcast. This is very, very exciting. So I'm Silke here

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and I am currently running three businesses, but we're only

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gonna to talk about one today. And my very first

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business ever was as a massage therapist. Then I run

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a networking group for women who run their own businesses.

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And the business we're talking about today is called Raise

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up Mums, which consists of free online community for moms,

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where I support women in adjusting to motherhood in all

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its phases that it comes in. And there is also

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a paid program and workshops that I run with the

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same Aim to support women in adjusting to motherhood through

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realistic self care and Resilience tools.

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And that is also the business that I developed the

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physical product for.

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OK. So all of your business was entirely online until

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we created a product. So what made you, first of

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all, what made you decide to add a physical product

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to your Offering?

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I thought it would be really nice if people came

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on to my website too, read a blog, or there

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are lots of community resources on their, if they were

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browsing around the website and then came across an actual

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physical product that they could order either for themselves or

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for a friend's, it's turned out to be a really,

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really nice gift for a new Mums. So lots of

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women are buying their Resilience Cards for a friend's that

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are having children or are currently having a bit of

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a rough time. So yeah, I just thought it would

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be a really nice if people had the option to

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click and buy something tangible because a lot of the

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online offerings that I have are to do with mindset

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and resilience and looking after yourself, which isn't easily quantifiable.

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So to actually order a physical thing is quite nice.

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It's almost like comparing an audio book too, a real

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book. Like some people just really like to hold a

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book in their hands when they're reading, which the Resilience

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cards are like that you pick one and you read

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through a tip or a tool and you can then

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action that, but you've got it holding it in your

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hand. So you're not reading it on a screen. So

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I guess that's the difference.

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Okay. Thank you. I think it's actually a really good

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point maybe to take a step back and explain to

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anyone who doesn't know what your Resilience Cards are exactly

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what they are and who they are.

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That's a good point. Yes. So they are called Raise

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Up Mums Resilience Cards and they started off with a

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different name actually, but maybe I'll loop back to that

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a little bit later, they are 50 Cards that are

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designed like it, a little pep talk for yourself. If

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you're having a rough time, either a rough day or

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a rough phase and your parenting journey. And so you

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can pick a card, it will say one word or

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a short sentence on the front that will give you

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a clue as to what you're meant to be doing.

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And then on the back of it has a longer

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description of what it is you should do, and a

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little bit of an explanation about it. So it will

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give you instructions, but it will also have a little

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elements of just motherhood solidarity.

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So it will have, you know, sometimes I'm trying to

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be a little bit funny as well, to lighten the

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mood and share my own experiences. So it's like someone

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described it as a little friend in a box and

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that's basically what they are, and it's a real mix

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of physical self care. So there is prompts in there

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for, you know, moisturizing your hands because you have forever

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watching your hands or doing a stretch or some self

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massage, and then other tips are more mindset base. So

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it can be practicing gratitude or, you know, just working

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on your outlook around motherhood. So there's, there's different types

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of self care tools in there.

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Okay. So I will put actually a link to the

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Cards in the show notes. So if you're listening to

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this and you're curious, and you would like to see

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what the Cards look like, or perhaps you don't have

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to buy some for yourself or someone else, you'd be

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able to do that via the show notes. This is

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something that I talk about and I we'll talk about

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it a bit more in future episodes is knowing exactly

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who your customer is. That it sounds like you've got

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a really good idea about who your is aimed at.

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So it's a new, is it a new Mums predominantly?

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It is. Although people have bought them for friends with

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older kids and they've also resonated with them very well,

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but I had new mums in my mind for sure.

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Although it's interesting. You say thing about knowing your audience.

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I had an online community of moms already when I

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was developing the product. So I could ask them questions

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all day long, which was really, really valuable, but all

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along, I had sort of thought that people would by

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the Cards for themselves, which, or Mums would by the

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cards for themselves, or should I say, and that hasn't

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really happened. And that was a real learning curve that

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Mums, don't like to spend money on themselves, but they

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will, as we all know, if you're a mum, gladly

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spent money on your kid's or if there is a

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friend in need and they will spend money on as

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well.

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So they've become much more of a gift to new

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moms. And then they have as a purchase for yourself,

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which has been interesting. So, you know, you don't get

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stuck down in one particular road, if you can actually

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tell that the market's telling you something different

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And that's a really, and that's really interesting that you

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recognize that. And how has that changed how you market

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them or how you position them?

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It Has a little bit, So this mother stage has

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gone, I did some Facebook ads, which I ran two

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different ones. One was targeted at Mums with a longer

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description about what the Cards were about. And then one

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was aimed at dads with a much shorter description and

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just basically making a clear that your mum in your

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life would like it is in a shop now, but,

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but yeah, so focusing much more on dad's, but previously

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I hadn't done and I had sort of just focused

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on, on the females and the mums, but yeah, it

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has shifted it's slightly And. Yeah. Yeah.

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Thank you. Now, do you mind, if we go right

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back to the beginning and talk about what inspired you

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to create the card's in the first place, and if

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you're happy to talk about your own personal journey, you

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know, what led you to believing this to be a

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useful product? That would be really good if you're happy

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to share it?

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Absolutely. So I have two kids that are currently four

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and eight years old, and the Cards came about roughly

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or the idea for them came about a year and

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a half after I'd had my second child. And with

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both kids had gone through a period of postnatal, depression

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and anxiety, which the first time around I looking back

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now, I couldn't really recognize it at the time, but

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looking back at my behavior, I can see that I

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managed my anxiety just by molding my entire life around

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the needs of my child. So everything was planned around

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her naps when she was napping, I was planning for

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activities and crafts and all sorts of crazy things that

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we could do when she was awake.

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So it just couldn't bear the thought of having a

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minute of unplanned time, because I didn't know what to

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do with this tiny person. And then when my second

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child came around and that was no longer possible because

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there was already another child that had needs. So I

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couldn't mold my entire existence around the child. So I

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was really, really struggling. And when I was seeking help,

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none of it seemed particularly appropriate to Life with a

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small child. So when I went to the GP, it

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was offered medication, but no other support. I have a

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self referred to some online therapy talk therapy, which they

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also didn't seem very receptive to the fact that I

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didn't have any time for myself.

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All the response that I was getting to the questions

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of support was all geared around, taking more time for

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myself and getting away from the kids, which if you

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have a tiny baby, do you know how impossible that

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is? So from that sort of sprung the idea that

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there has to be something out there that's doable for

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moms, and that can help, you know, put ourselves back

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together, which is slightly the wrong way to put it

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this way. We are not broken. We don't have to

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put ourselves back together, but just things that help shore

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rise up against the demands of motherhood. So I started

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reading lots of things around how to look after yourself

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and ignoring all the ridiculous advice about, you know, sleep

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eight hours at night, because you can't, when you have

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a tiny baby or meditate for 20 minutes, three times

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a day, or one suggestion was to skin brushed or

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dry brush every day.

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You know, it's ridiculous, things like that. And you know,

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you barely have time to brush your teeth and you

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have a tiny baby, let alone do, do all extravagant,

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things like that. But in most things that I was

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reading, there were a little things that you could do.

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So I would take all these little things and I

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started sharing them on the business pages that we already

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had at the time. And they were really well-received. So

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I thought, well, there is clearly a need for this

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here and now that I've been doing it for a

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while. There is, but I've come across lots of people

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that are doing similar things online. I think it's a

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really growing area of support for women, which is great,

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but at the time there was nothing. So I certainly

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felt like I needed to create something that I would

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have been able to, to use.

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So that's where the idea came from for the business.

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And then that sort of distilled into the Cards a

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little bit later along the lines. So it started with

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just sharing Facebook posts and Instagram posts and writing some

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blogs and running some workshops. And then it morphed into

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the Cards, which at the time there's the business was

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called something different. It was called nourish to thrive at

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the time. So the cards were called nourished mum's care

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cards, and then they were rebranded along with a business

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to Raise up Mums.

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Thank you. And I think it's fantastic. It's a really

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good example of a you're creating something that met the

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need that you had that, but then has gone on

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in 10 to help so many other people. So can

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I just ask if you don't mind, so you had

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a community already when you launched the product. So how

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involved were they in there in the creation? So I

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guess I'm just trying to find out how, how you

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used the group. You already have to shape the product

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and what it looked like and what was well, the

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content was well in the Bay area.

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If first instance I ever since I started the business

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and the community I've been saving all the social media

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posts that I've been writing in Evernote, which is a

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app that I use for that. So I went through

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all of the content that I'd already written and through

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the post that I posted to see which ones had

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resonated the most. So in a way that was really

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useful to pick the content that was going to be

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on the cards to see what was well received. And

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then all along the creation and production process, I would

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ask questions in the group about, you know, what would

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they like to see, or I would just keep them

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updated on it while I'm doing this. Do you know,

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do you, do you, would you be interested in buying

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this or if I made this and had lots of

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positive feedback, and then the most involvement I got from

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the community really was around choosing the name for the

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Cards.

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So I was torn between, cause the business was called

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nourish to thrive. I was torn between care cards or

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thrive cards and that your opinions were really divided and

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I'd got private messages from people around it really think

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they should be care Cards because thriving seems to far

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off when you are a new mom, it just, I

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didn't think I could thrive and that word would really

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put me off. So it needs to be care cards.

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And other people had completely the opposite opinion saying, but

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thriving, a such a positive word and such a dynamic

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word. And so I got lots of, lots of input

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in naming the Cards and we had lots of people

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that were disappointed. And by the choice that I know,

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please, everyone.

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No, that's true. And so yeah, lots of involvement and

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it it's really nice to launch something to an existing

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community. Having said that I was sort of envisaging, you

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know, taking a huge bag of orders to the post

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office because so many people who had expressed an interest

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and that didn't quite happen. So maybe that's a take

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away for everyone listening as well. That definitely, you know,

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in visit all the success, but also to be prepared

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for maybe to shift slightly, like I said, in the

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beginning, it transpires that people would much rather buy them

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for a friend than to buy it for themselves. So

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orders come in now from people who at the time

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were really supportive. Didn't buy them at the time, but

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now they have someone to buy them four.

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So they know people will still come back, but they

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might not necessarily act on their support immediately If that

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makes sense.

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Do you think there's anything you could have done differently

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at the launch stage that it would have helped you

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get those initial sales or?

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yes. For sure.Or I think if I were to launch

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it again, I would probably do a lot of things

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differently. You get, what I found is that you get

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so wrapped up in the process of getting something, creating

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it and getting it to the point of having it

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delivered to you or collecting it. And then you have

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the physical thing in your hands. I hadn't really thought

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much beyond that point in terms of marketing, which is

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speaking to people that that's a lot of peoples experiences

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that you get to that point, you were so relieved

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and then you go, Oh no, and now I've got

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to the market. It, now I've got to actually sell

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this thing. And it isn't, I mean, maybe some people

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find this, but I certainly didn't find that just because

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something now exist in the world. And if there are

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lots of people that are going to know what's out

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there and buy it, if it does take a constant

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effort to get things out there.

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So I think I probably would've made a much bigger

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deal of launching them, you know, maybe a really big

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giveaway and, and sending free packs of cards to, you

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know, various people to see if they would promote them

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for me. Or if I had the money, I would

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still quite like to do a proper PR campaign, but

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I'm, I'm a very small business in one man band.

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So at the moment that's not in the budget, but

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yeah, it certainly, if you can sort of drum up

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as much excitement as you can before the law in

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two areas, I, because I've had so much involvement for

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my community, I was sorta thinking that that would be

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enough. And that was a bit naive. I think so.

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Yeah, I would do more.

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Thank you. And I have a suggestion for me actually,

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is for anyone doing something similar is it might also

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be a good opportunity to get pre-orders as well. So

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if you can get anyone to actually give you some

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money or maybe even at a reduced price before you

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actually have a physical thing ready to sell, it kind

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of takes a bit of pressure off, you know, you've

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sold some helps a little bit with cash flow and

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there's initial sales can lead to, you know, early supporters

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and the early reviews and that kind of thing, certainly

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by the way that they were saying you did anything,

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no, this is just general advice to anyone listening, who

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do you think's or what could, what else could you

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do? So I feel like we are sort of going

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backwards and forwards a bit here, but hopefully you're still

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with us.

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And what I'd like to do now is talk about

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the actual production, have a card. So I guess you

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have this existing business, you establish the need for a

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product is starting to formulate in your minds. So what,

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how were you feeling that at this stage, you mean,

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so you decided you're going to create a physical product

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and I don't imagine that was something that you decided

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overnight once you'd made that decision. Tell us about that.

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Okay. Well that was in a very lucky position that

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you were a friend of mine at the time and

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I'm starting your product creation business. So I, I did

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use some help, which was really, really valuable cause it

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gave me a lot of insight that I wouldn't have

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had otherwise. So say in that you are welcome. I'm

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not being paid to say that either. So yes, I

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think if you can definitely get some people around you

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who can help and just give you some pointers because

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it's very easy to jump in and just get going

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with stuff, which is generally my normal approach to everything.

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It's to just jump in and see what happens, but

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working with someone and you know, whether that someone who

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you pay or a friends and family, or like a

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business buddy, it can just pace you so that you

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are not running ahead without doing your research.

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And that's certainly the first thing that you got me

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to do. And then I wouldn't have done by myself

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is to do lots of research into existing products. So

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I knew I wanted to deck of cards, but I

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didn't know what size, I didn't know what sort of

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quality, I didn't know what kind of packaging. So the

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first thing I was asked to do was to do

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lots of research into existing things and even order some,

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to see what they're like to see what the quality

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is like and to look at reviews. And that was

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hugely valuable. And I did really enjoy setting up a

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good old spreadsheet for that as well. It took me

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back to my office, working days to set up a

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nice spreadsheet, to keep track of everything. So to work

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out the price point of the product and two, to

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get clear on what I want the product to be

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and what I don't want it to be.

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So I knew then after that research that I wanted

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the cards to be really sturdy and I wanted them

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to be laminated. So if stuff's build on them and

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they can just be wiped clean, or if you have

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a baby, Chad started jumping on them, they will still

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be in one piece afterwards instead of looking at reviews

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for existing products. But I also knew that I didn't

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want them to be a sort of a spiritual as

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such. I wanted them to be much more Practical and

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I wanted him to be fairly large with the UN.

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I knew that I wanted to put quite a lot

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of information on the back, but I didn't want it

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to be too small in writing. So I knew they

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had to be quite a big size. So research came

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first and then came the actual, you know, getting quotes

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in from suppliers.

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It sounds like you did a lot of research as

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you were suggested to follow my advice. And how did

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that, I guess it sounds like the research gave you

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a lot more clarity, and I know that I talk

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a lot about doing research rather than jumping in, because

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I really feel like it makes a difference to the

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products, but also to like how you feel about, about

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the process. Do you mind talking us a bit about

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how you felt at the outset? So when you were

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asking on this, you know, this is what is essential,

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a huge task. It's something that you've been to the

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world and then how that changed or so once you've

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done a bit of research, did that change how you

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were feeling at all?

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Yes, for sure. The start of the process, I felt

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really quite overwhelmed with just the amount of choice there

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was of different ways that the product would be and

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doing the research just to focus that in a lot.

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So lots of things started getting excluded and it just

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really crystallized what I wanted to Cards to be.

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Is it, did that help at all with a sense

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of overwhelming your head?

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Oh my gosh. Yes. Completely. Yeah. It sort of really

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focused in or what I needed to do and then

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maybe the next steps a lot easier as well, because

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a lot of printers that I approached about printing the

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cards, weren't able to do one thing or another, and

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then I knew they weren't, they, they, they weren't the

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right printers. Cause I knew what I wanted the Cards

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to be.

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Gos so that Pre-work obviously really was worth it for

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you. So are there anything that you learned during the

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process, anything unexpected that perhaps or just, and if anything

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that you feel like you'd like to share?

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Yeah, that the main thing that I learned is how

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do I put this? So I wanted to get the

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cards out into the world by a certain date. I

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think it was the end of November. I'd set myself

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as a deadline because I wanted them to be available

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before Christmas with enough time to ship them out to

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people. And that sort of then meant that I had

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to make decisions fairly quickly because we were up against

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the, the wire quite a lot, which was great at

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that time because it meant I had to make decisions

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and it had to get things done. But it also

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meant that I compromised a little bit on the packaging

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of the Cards. So they were initially in a little

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cardboard box that actually arrived from the printers as a

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flat pack.

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And then I had to assemble them, myself, every order,

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which now looking back is an insane concept, really, because

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that was so much extra on. But at the time

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I was really, I was, it, it had to be

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in a box and I don't know why I really

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wanted the cards to be in a box or the

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things had been suggested to me. And I didn't Listen

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I just wanted him to be in a box and

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that was in it and the boxes we're fine. And

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the printers we're able to do with the card and

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the box is at the same site locally, so I

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can go and collect them. So it was all really

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straight forward and really easy. And I'm still to a

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point glad that I've done it that way, but that

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definitely was a learning curve. The cards that are at

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the packs then arrived and I had to assemble them.

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All of which was a pain and the cardboard wasn't

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quite as sturdy as it should of been the, it

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was a tiny bit too big for the Cards, which

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then meant the boxes were getting just bent a little

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bit in the Post's.

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They weren't quite steady enough and it just really irked

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me that it wasn't quite right. So yeah. Maybe make

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sure you spend enough time, like really fine tuning your

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options and making sure the packaging is as you want

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it. So now that the cards have gone through a

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rebrand, they actually live in little canvas bags, which do

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not get damaged in the post, which is great. Yeah.

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And I think that it is a good learning and

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I think that it's good that you're sharing. And then

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one thing I think is good, you are sharing is

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that the first time around things weren't perfect. So I

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think that's important and why are they okay. You made

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'em what perhaps that you might see as a mistake

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and maybe you spent a bit more time and money

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and effort, and obviously you have to go back and

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redo things. I still say its better to do that

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as better to get something out there and then refine

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it than to let all that perfection hold you back.

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This is true. So, you know, you got them out

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into the world, you realized actually the package in wasn't

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good. And then next time around you did something different.

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I think that is much better than sitting in on

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that decision about packaging for a weeks or months.

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How would you not have to do that deadline? It

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could have happened to. Yes. You might have ended up

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at the same product, but it might've taken you a

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lot longer to get it there. So something I would

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like to say is that don't be afraid of making

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mistakes. Obviously. I don't want anyone to make huge, costly

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mistakes, but is it fair to say that in the

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scheme of things that wasn't the end of it all?

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Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm still glad that it

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sort of went down this way because I've, I've learned

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so much and yeah, absolutely. And I'm glad they arrived

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before Christmas because a lot of people did buy them.

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So yes. Don't be afraid to make mistakes for sure.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. And I think things are, yeah. It's like you

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say, you have to make for Christmas, you sold and

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you sold all of those and if you want to

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Your yep. But you and your second are in a

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second for, it runs a fantastic, exciting, but it is

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a really exciting, but thank you for sharing that. I

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think it's important for people to here that actually, it

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doesn't matter if you don't get everything quiet a a

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hundred percent first time around, you know,

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And it's the beauty of being a small business as

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well, that it doesn't matter if you pivot and you

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change things. Cause the majority of people who won't even

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notice that things have changed, you know, I've, I've rebranded

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my business like two or three times as things have

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developed and changed or evolved rather. And pivoted. So if

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you're a one man band, no one is your boss

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and you can just go with the flow and change

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things up. So yeah.

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Yeah. Nice to have that freedom. Okay. So I think

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we're gonna start thinking about wrapping things up. So I've

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got two more questions for you. It's like, okay. So

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the first one is, so how does it feel having,

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or what benefits have you seen I guess is a

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better question than to having like a, another income stream

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and how is that working with you with your business

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overall?

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Oh,

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I'll be really honest. I haven't purposefuly given Silke a

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list of questions, so I'm just completely thrown her with

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this.

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Just trying to think. So the thing is that I've

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had, because I have three different businesses that have so

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many end goals that is confusing to think like what

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benefit does, that's just one of them have. It's nice

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that the, The, the main Thing I guess, is that

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it doesn't need my physical attendance. Like a physical product

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doesn't need me to be anywhere. It's not a service.

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It's nothing I have to do with my one-on-one time

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is like sales. Just, it sounds so easy to sales,

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just come in and then things just get posted out.

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Obviously not quite as easy as that, it still takes

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marketing effort, but it's just nice to have something that

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is a physical thing and that I don't have to

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exchange all the time.

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Yeah. And it just something that constant going on in

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the background, you've done all the hard work and now

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you can start to see the benefits and I've got

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it. I completely take your point. You're a sales don't

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just happen and it's not entirely passive. However, it was

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just nice to have, you know, even if it's, you

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know, just a low level of sales going on in

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the background, it was nice. Yeah. Nice to have. That

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is that's true. And so again for thriving that question

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in your way back. Okay. So to finally wrap things

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up, what is your top advice for other product creators

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or want to be product creators out there?

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Okay. I think my top tip would be to, along

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with not being afraid of making mistakes is also not

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be afraid of me not knowing everything and not be

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afraid of possibly making a bit of a fool of

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yourself. And I remember which has my reason for mentioning

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this. I remember bringing round printing firms to get quotes

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from people. And I know I could have done them

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by email, but I really wanted to talk to people

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to get a gist of what they're business was like.

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And I need people to talk me through stuff because

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I didn't know anything about, you know, can't thickness and

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laminating and you know, full color, whatever. And so I

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ran some printer's and just the way that some of

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them made me feel was not nice because I rang

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up and they could tell immediately that I didn't know

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what I was talking about.

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And they didn't have any time for that, which wasn't

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nice, but that is more of a reflection on how

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they run their business and not on, you know, my

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ability to do anything. But the printer that they eventually

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ended up using was incredibly accommodating. And they were so

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friendly and had lots of time to explain things to

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me. And the first time I called, you know, they

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said, well, we can do all of that for you.

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We'll explain to you how it works. If you want

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to use us or not, that it's then up to

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you, or we might do not be the right print

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is for you. And they were just really, really lovely.

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So let's stick with it and don't be afraid to

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have a sort of a beginner's mindset and just embrace

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the fact that you don't know everything, but the people

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that are, you know, as passionate about their businesses as

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you are, they'll have time for you to, to explain

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stuff to you and to take you through the process.

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And

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That's a really good point. Thank you. And I was

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also at that, if you are doing it as Silke

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did and you are phoning people and you getting a

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bit of rudeness or, you know, or people not wanting

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to explain a time for you, like you say that

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they're not going to be the people for you because

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hopefully you have any product that you, that you create.

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You're in it for the medium to long term. And,

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you know, hopefully you're going to want the stick with

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the same supplier, whether that's a printer or another manufacturer,

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and there needed to be a relationship there because, and

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hopefully it's going to be a long-term relationship. So yes.

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Do you need to definitely get off on the right

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foot? So I'm pleased you find someone that you're happy

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to it and then I, okay. Well, thank you so

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much for your time.

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Thank you so much for talking to us is really

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useful. It was really interesting to hear like a real

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perspective of someone who's going out and created something. And

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I'm going to put links to all of your business's

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in the show And people can find you out there.

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And is there anything else we'll need to say before

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we finish now?

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I think we've covered it pretty much at everything. So

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just, you know, don't doubt yourself. Like if you've got

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a, a good reason for why your wanting to create

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a product, it will go back to that. Good old

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why of why we're, we've decided to make something. If

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you've got a good reason and you've got a passion

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for what you're doing, then don't let anything stop. You

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basically. Thank you so much.

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I hope you enjoyed that interview of Silke and found

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it interesting and inspiring. As I mentioned, if you want

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to find out more about Silke her business and her

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products, and that will all be linked up in the

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show notes. If you'd also like to find out a

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bit more about my product creation course, which Silke you

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mentioned in the interview, then I will link up to

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that in the show notes as well. There were two

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courses, there's the introductory course, which is about validating your

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products idea and determining whether its worth going ahead and

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waive. And then there's the full course, which covers. And

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then there's the full course, which has the same content

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as a validation course, but some additional models that take

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you by surprise or a product launch.

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So please take a look if you, if they'd be

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of interest to you and looking forward to speaking to