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Catherine March designs and makes her own jewellery by hand, in London. She has a fascinating story of how she started selling the odd piece she’d made in jewellery making classes in London on Etsy (back when Etsy was really new!) – to having a showroom in the Oxo Tower today.

Listen in to hear Catherine share:

  • An introduction to making and selling jewellery made from recycled metals (1:46)
  • How she learnt to create her own jewellery and why she got started (3:24)
  • How she started to sell her products – and why she hadn’t actually planned to sell them (6:08)
  • How she went from selling the odd piece on Etsy to having her pieces in Hatton Garden (7:22)
  • Making jewellery that’s easy to wear (8:50)
  • Where she finds the inspiration for her jewellery designs (9:40)
  • When and why she decided to take a business course (11:55)
  • Selling on Etsy, back when Etsy was still a new platform (12:46)
  • Where she finds the metal to make her pieces (15:40)
  • The point at which she decided to start a business (16:28)
  • The advantage of selling products on your own website (18:01)
  • Where else her products are stocked and sold (19:41)
  • How Covid has affected her business and how (and where) she works (22:50)
  • What she enjoys about creating and selling her jewellery designs (25:25)
  • How her business works around family life (26:30)
  • Her number one piece of advice for other product creators (28:48)

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Transcript

From selling on Etsy to a permanent showroom – With Catherine Marche

INTRO (:

Welcome to the Bring Your Product Ideas to Life podcast, practical advice and inspiration to help you create and sell your own physical products. Here's your host. Vicki Weinberg

Catherine Marche (:

Make sure that you price it properly. You know, it's not a showrunner that you are running. I mean, price it properly. That's no, and I've seen people who really know like need the cardigan and the tech hurdle seven days of eight hours. So that's what the 50 plus hours to make the car to them. And then they're going to study something like What teach two pounds. And if you think that's that, even the course of the wool, right?

Vicki Weinberg (:

That was just a snippet from this week's guest Catherine Marche Catherine helps people feel and look fabulously, stylish and happy by creating timeless takens of love. I find your way is ethically handmade in London we've recycled silver and gold and infused with a French sheek twist. We have a great chat touch on all kinds of things, including how caffeine makes her do her jewelry and her take on how to price your products. This was a fantastic conversation and I can't wait to introduce you to Catherine. So Hi Catherine. Thank you so much for being here.

Catherine Marche (:

Hello, Vicki, how are you today?

Vicki Weinberg (:

Really good. Thank you. And I hope you are too. Is that nice to be able to see you through the power of zoom? I do like that. I can see people's faces.

Catherine Marche (:

I agree.

Vicki Weinberg (:

So can we please start by you telling us about your business analyst? It is that you saw Please and actually what it is that you make, because I know that you actually handmade all of your products.

Catherine Marche (:

So hi, my name is Catherine Marche and I had to make a fine jewelry in precious metals, gold and silver, and they tend to use recycled metals because I want you to have a sense of the environment and the planet. So I use a golden silver, which has been recycled locally in London, where I live or a melt old jury, myself and recycled myself. So,

Vicki Weinberg (:

Oh, wow. Yeah. I might start with that. And how, and how do you, do you melt down? Oh, Jovi? Is it like, do

you need like a special equipment for that? That, that,

Catherine Marche (:

Yes, yes, yes. Do you need to talk to me and also something called boric acid, one thing that you apply a lot of heat until the metal becomes liquid, and then you're going to pour it into are kind of dunno, another frame, I would say middle of middle or shark, or to give it a little bit of a shape and you can start working From and

then you are going to either transform it as a sheet of metal as a rock. Like for example, I have, when they're, you know, there's a camera yet, so that's gold, which has been recycled From rings or rings is going to become another band and other wedding bands.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Oh, that's amazing. So how did you, well, yeah, two things, really one is how did you land to do all of that? So it sounds absolutely fascinating. And let's start there. How did you learn to do all of this?

Catherine Marche (:

I had to go to school again. I, when I first started rolling in classes to see 'em, if it's something that could interest me and then I just started to go to a degree. So I went back to college, I'm a trained or do to several years to learn. And I think I still haven't finished because it's such a vast domain, but you can keep learning all your life if you take weeks to She ways of doing something. So it's a question to a resting in that respect.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Yeah. I'm sure. I'm sure if it isn't, as you say, you must just be able to continually hone your skills, learned new skills. So what was it? So, first of all, how long ago was it that you went back to the college and, and started learning how to, how to do this?

Catherine Marche (:

Oh, it was about 16 years ago.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Okay. And what was the inspiration for deciding to do that? What have you been doing up until that point?

Catherine Marche (:

And I was in it, so I was working with computers on the programming side, managing projects and to, to make programs and software is for the company's and also working as I'm a consultant. I have to consultants and permission to the community and I quite enjoy it, but I always also had a creative side. So while I had been working in this city, I also went to our classes. I'll also do it at sharing bang to engraving.

Catherine Marche (:

I mean, quite a lot of different things and I've always had this two sides, but then I wanted to, to have a

family. And, ah, the problem was it is that I was working very long hours sometimes, you know, because you have to deliver on P M or being too. And if that was a problem with something, or how did you work at the weekends? And I thought that it wasn't really a compatible, it was having young children. So I was trying to see what else I could do. One thing that they never had enough when I was conditioning was a jury and Libby, instead of commissioning that I should just know how to make it myself.

Catherine Marche (:

And that's kind of how I got started.

Vicki Weinberg (:

So when you got started, did you intend that it would become a business and S you know, you had to sell your pieces? Or is it something you planned to, just for yourself right at the outset?

Catherine Marche (:

The thing I think, no, no, I didn't, it, it was competing, it just happened. I was already in the class, but it was started in some of the things that was making me in the class when she was on my toes, because the workload, one of the teachers has guidelines. And then I put them on for several minutes and sold and was the money. I put them off classes and basically that's how I'd send it on my training. Like I was looking at something, she, I was sending it and it was built by some tools or I would get on to more training. So it just happened. And then when I decided to go to a degree, I think I thought that actually, since I have had started to sell things that are shipped home the skills.

Catherine Marche (:

And so that's why then I went there and then also took a little business class as well.

Vicki Weinberg (:

So it sounds like initially you would just, Selling sort of one of the pieces on Etsy, but now you say you have a, quite a large door and am I right in thinking you were Designs I've also been having some gardens as well, and some, a few other places. So how did you go from selling the OD piece on Etsy to where you are now? I know it's been 16 years when it was going to be quite a journey, you know, overnight.

Catherine Marche (:

Yeah. Good question. I think that answered a few awards. I won some, so maybe the started to get some press coverage. I think that probably helped as well, and then knocked on doors. I think I just thought nobody is going to come and find me. So I just asked, would you like to do is stop my work, the worst that can happen with that. So, you know,

Vicki Weinberg (:

That's great. Well, that's great. And I think probably as you said, you've been doing this for 16 years, which

is a long time, so yeah, no one is, you probably can't remember exactly how you got from there to here. I'm not sure. I remember my life 16 years ago that clearly either, but I think, yeah, it just, I guess it's partly carrying on doing what you've been doing as it sounds like you're continually learning and improving what you're doing and I've had to look at your pieces and they're so original and beautiful. Thank you. Yeah. I guess there was something to be said of just doing, just doing it. So which one is your favorite? I like, I can't remember what you call the range with the flowers.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Yes. Yes. The, the rings was that made from the different metals of the flowers that you can stack. Those, I thought were beautiful and very simple, a simple but beautiful, which is kind of like my style. I don't like things to very too big or too right.

Catherine Marche (:

I like to keep it simple personally as well. I think if to elaborate is not something that I would personally wear too often. So, and also a thing that when something is simple, you can then combine all those items. You're going to have more easily.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Yeah. I did like that. Your jewelry looks really wearable if that makes sense. Right. Because not all the jewelry for me is, you know, when you are, especially your mom and do you have all these other things? I don't, I don't know. Some jewelry just feels like it was sitting in a box or at the time, because you think are what you have, where will I wear that? So, yeah, I like that you have Designs are so wearable. I can imagine you can just wear them or they every day. And then just go with all of your outfits, which I think is really nice. So where do you find the inspiration for your jewelry?

Catherine Marche (:

I'm not sure. I think, I think it's a mix, a mix of, you know, drawing from my own experiences on my travels, from my culture. So then when you can be a simple, as I like this, too, and what could I do with it, or I have a nice to go to you and I want you to wear that dress. I'm like be nice, kind of a dress. And that, for them, not really someone who was wanting to look up at the building and things see inspiration like that at all, or, you know, looking at a cloud or something, or you just think it's most spontaneous for me, I think he's quite spontaneous.

Catherine Marche (:

It it's more of a baby or more tactile. And some of them just by touching things on, playing around with them, Designs, that's why I'm saying that mind you, I do have sketch books, which are Designs as well, but sometime you just know you on the phone and sketch then, and then you'll do I looked at what I've done or why not? I don't know. Why does it come from everywhere? Right.

Vicki Weinberg (:

And I just wonder if I were, it was sort of, you know, you made pieces that you would like to show yourself the other's like, or whether demean to people. I know you do see a bespoke Designs as well as ain't you, so you have, so I guess client is also tell you exactly what they would like.

Catherine Marche (:

Yeah, of course. Yeah. That's true. That's in a way, I think that the clients will come to me, come to me because the light of my side already, so then the commission's I work, or I'm not that far removed from my own, so I would say that. Right.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Yeah. And that's interesting, but I suppose that make sense that you'd have to like somebody style to think of it. That would suit you if that doesn't make sense. So you mentioned that right at the beginning, when you decided to take your degree, you took a business course as well, or was that at the stage where you were thinking actually I could, might build a business around this topic.

Catherine Marche (:

Yes and no. The thing is that it wasn't a business course as such as the sense that it was really something for shooters. So it was more about how to price your items, how to, you know, keep track of your stock or how to do a seller, a written agreement or your terms and conditions. I mean, it really more practical. I wish I had an MDA that would be easier, I think, but a know it was a, something that I've found that the local out of fashion. So I think it was more tailored for creative people.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Okay. And you mentioned that at the beginning, you were selling pieces on Etsy and I feel like you must have just been around then as well. It wasn't quite right.

Catherine Marche (:

Yes. It was quite new. I think it was two years old. Oh, wow. Well, I'll tell you, I, even at the time had the thing, it was lunch or dinner with one of the founders, because at the time, you know, as it was quite small, they want to get from people in London and it was, it was a completely different from now. That's been a challenge that more commercial now, but before that it was more focused on highlight in creations.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Yeah. And then I guess, as well as a lot more sellers on there now than they were 16 years ago. And as you say, I have definitely seen the change and the products that are sold, that they've also done the best. It was a lot of handmade, but they were also products that, you know, your day, maybe they've been printed or a digital product that haven't necessarily been made by hand. And do you still sell that now? I have to be in touch.

Catherine Marche (:

I'll have a few items to add. Yes.

Vicki Weinberg (:

And, but the base of your sales come through your website?

Catherine Marche (:

Yes. From my website. And they'll sell from the, the, the showroom.

Vicki Weinberg (:

This is that your, is that the show room in the Oxo Tower yeah. Okay. So we'll come to that in a second. Okay. No, no, no, go, go, go with what your saying,

Catherine Marche (:

Right? No, I was just going to say that because of all the Covid issues, I think the, the, the, the workshop is going to go back and look to the short is going to do with the more quiet you got to have less visitors. Definitely.

Vicki Weinberg (:

So has your workshops, there'll be in APEC throughout the pandemic?

Catherine Marche (:

Yeah. During the lockdown apps we can. Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg (:

All right. Okay. And since you've opened up a gate, are you still getting the visitors that are coming in to see you they're or was it gone down on it?

Catherine Marche (:

And I try to arrange visits outside of the workshop have to touch you, meet them at the showroom because they have more space or, or you can respect the social distance.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Okay. So with a workshop on the show we have in separate locations. Okay.

Catherine Marche (:

I mean the short and that's how the time the bench, and you can't do a little bit of work there. It doesn't have all the tools and the missionaries.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Right. And I imagine you've got a lot of tools and machinery as well, especially if you are slightly, you know, repurpose in existing jewelry. Yeah. That must, that must involve a lot. Well, that's true. There's probably,

Catherine Marche (:

And nobody's for me. Yes, I do. I do have some equipment next to me.

Vicki Weinberg (:

And so Where, and I've gone completely off track of what I was going to ask you, but where do you find the jewelry two, if you're sort of using existing gold, for example, how do you find that to make into your pieces

Catherine Marche (:

At the moment? Most of it was coming from the client's.

Vicki Weinberg (:

OK

Catherine Marche (:

Sometimes it, it has happened that they want me to use the goal, that they have to make some goals for them. So I used that some of the times some people have to read, they really did not like in a more, and so it's a part of that payment.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Okay. Well, that's interesting. And so coming back to when you first started, so you told a few pieces on that and see, and then you did your degree, or at what point did you think actually, I'm going to set up a website and I'm going to make a business out of this?

Catherine Marche (:

I think I did the website of the, almost the same time, because I was in it. So the website, it was like easy peasy. I was just like a website.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Oh, actually it's the same as any people. The website is a really big deal, but for you to imagine it was just an office,

Catherine Marche (:

Where are the biggest that it is also about the kinematics. We just think, okay, what do I do? I do, I have my items. I'm in a place that was 500,000 other people, which means that's what happened to me at a few times

that it's, you know, if you send people to the Etsy shop and then they are really happy to tell you that this is something, because they think that they bought from me, but in the end up buying it from another seller on the same platform, because they don't realize that everything is mixed together. Right.

Vicki Weinberg (:

That's true. And I think now probably people who are a bit more sappy with that, because we're more used the online market places, but yet back then at 16 years ago. Yeah. I can imagine that that would be, it was quite a new concept. It actually marketplaces with sellers. Yeah.

Catherine Marche (:

That was some in Germany and France. When you be where, so there wasn't much in the UK, I think at the time. But I think also the other thing is that if you have your own website, you don't have to pay a third party, a commission to another company, you know, like you have a shop or to another platform, right.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Yeah. And, and do you have complete control as well? I mean, I, I suggest to people, even now that it doesn't matter where you are going to sell, even if you think your whole business will be on that C is a good idea. You still have to have some kind of web presence, just so people know they're buying from you. Right.

Catherine Marche (:

Right. But the other thing is that a with the ed, the terms and conditions, you're not allow them to contact the clients again. So it's, it's hard to have a relationship with them.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Yeah. And that she was like,

Catherine Marche (:

If you have them on your own website, that its easier. If you want to send them some news or invite them to event, or if you have a special cell for them or something.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Yeah, exactly. You can sort of, you are in the customer, which I think that's the case on most online marketplaces now is that you've got no idea who's buying for me. You might have a postal address or something, but you don't have permission to contact that person ever again

Catherine Marche (:

Because there's, there's GDPR as well. Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Yes. And a lot. Do you get repeat customers? Do you get people that are delighted with something you've made for you and then come back again. So we're going to mention that. But if you find someone that you'd like, especially for spoke pieces that you might come back or you'd recommend to a friend say, yeah, I think it's really nice. If you could have a relationship with people and they know that it's you they're buying from, that makes such a difference. So in terms of where else so you sell, 'em obviously so a little bit on Etsy on and do our own website. So where else can people go and buy your products? You mentioned the show room, which is in the, in the Oxo Tower. So where else can people buy your products at the moment?

Catherine Marche (:

Well, With depending make how to say that. Most of the other Stuckey's they have to close down because there are several of them went on to go to sustain the costs of keeping back at it. Right. So I have been on several of my websites now that's When trends. And then if you are in the UK, like sick and there's electrical to resolve, there is also another one court. And one of which is also what I like also that a lot of time only focused on sustainable, ethical jewelry by it.

Catherine Marche (:

She was exclusive jewelry or so yes I'm you can is like that to help people find me.

Vicki Weinberg (:

But it sounds like it's really changed that over the last six months. And we're recording this for context. And if people are listening, we are recording this in the middle of oxide. So it sounds like when the last six months it's really changed a lot for you.

Catherine Marche (:

Yes. Not just me. I think probably. And lots. Yeah. Lots of people who have things in shops. I mean, for example, in New York. So Tower where we have a show room, I would say since March probaby, Paul Thanks a lot. Yeah. And I think it might be more coming. You ask a question, you can actually, it started difficult because on one hand, you know, you knew people the need for something nice and that life to feel good or to, to, to have a nice surroundings.

Catherine Marche (:

But it, it is difficult if you are, you know, a business, a local business to, to have the client's come to you when the physical places don't trade anymore. So yeah. You have to go to more online places. I guess I've seen a lot of people try to do, even in some places like Instagram, I don't know if it works or not. I hope it does for them, but a lot of people don't do online. So yeah.

Catherine Marche (:

I don't know.

Vicki Weinberg (:

I'm sure that they have a more people moving online because as you say, for some people that are probably the only other option now, so have you had to do anything differently since the pandemic? I wear a mask. Yes, yes. Yes. That's it

Catherine Marche (:

It's just a real things. Like you used to go to a specific place, how's it go to, to have your stones set up in a ring? If it's something very specific, like we said to him, for example, but of course, a few of their students that are not able to keep that a workshop will have to go up. And so you have to allow much more time for every jury commissioned that you work on. Because something that would take me to be, I dunno, for five days now will take 15 days because you have to find if the person who is still trading, see where it allows, you know, how you can get the work they're then it has to come back to you.

Catherine Marche (:

And even things like having your work, I stayed the service of Paris, you know, or reduced hours. So you'd have to change the way you organize your day in order to go exactly during this limited hours in that place. But another shop has a limited hours. So it seems to the dealer you have to, do you remember a moment? I mean, if you do have to adapt definitely to that. And also the other thing is I do not want to take the time

when it's busy, so my day is going to be, you are right in the middle, outside of rush hours.

Catherine Marche (:

So yeah, I think you have to not take precautions because the last thing is wanting to get sick, but you don't have to pass it to a new one. You don't want it to, to be the person who is going to spread the virus because you are being callous. So if you have to take special care of everything, we still joke that should be making as well. Or if you have a meeting with somebody, it goes to grandma, you know, the that she will be call called after.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Everything is a lot more difficult. Now it doesn't it. So that it's yeah. Let's just bring things up a bit and, and talk about something is a more positive. So I'd love to know some of the things that you love about your business. So whether that's about on the creative side or the business side, let's talk about some of the things that you enjoy.

Catherine Marche (:

I really like being part of that love story and we were all helping them find something that I didn't know, whether it's a power of hearings or facial to Reeves a emotional one time. I think you it's it's really, yeah. We have a blessing to have to have the chance to do, to help with that. Knowing that something that you make, you know, might pass on generations or is it is going to celebrate the girls, or I don't know how many of us, sorry, or a graduation, it's really a special and I will show you that.

Catherine Marche (:

Right.

Vicki Weinberg (26m 3s):

That is lovely. And you mentioned at the beginning that one of the things that sort of prompted you to move from your it career was starting a family. So how has that worked as you expected, has this business works around your family life in a way that you've thought it might?

Catherine Marche (:

Yes, I knew so. Yes. I have to be able to tell her my days too, the kids, especially when they went into and breastfeeding and you know, things like that. And being able to do a parent teachers is a wall, but then I find that it's very difficult. When you have your own business, do you have boundaries between your lives and your business? So there has been some times, you know, some times I would check my emails on the Sunday when I'm not supposed to check my email on a Sunday because Sunday the weekends So.

Catherine Marche (:

So I think you have to really be self-disciplined and combating business right. Provides.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Yeah, I think that is it. That is a challenge when you own your own business, because it can just start to blend together. And is your workshop separate from your home or is it in a separate place? All of that is quite nice. And I suppose, because there's no temptation is going to another room and start making something or is that normally the case?

Catherine Marche (:

Well, the thing is that it was a defendant. I did bring her back and she thinks that because you know, you have to close down for how long, so yeah. There's some stations sometimes.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Yeah. I can see that, especially if you love what, like what you do. And I can tell that you do so we just have one final question to finish off if that's okay. Catherine which is one of my ask everybody. And that's it. So what was your number one piece of advice be to someone else you wanted to start creating and selling products, whether that's jewelry or just anything that they're creating

Catherine Marche (:

You mean like taking the steps to go from?

Vicki Weinberg (:

Yeah. Maybe making this up for moving from a corporate career to doing something creative, just any advice. Do you think that you would want someone to know or that you would like to have had 16 years ago?

Catherine Marche (:

Well, I told her you listen to you for advice. So I'm, that's a very good, so I would say you have to do listen to yourself. Oh, you are the only one who really knows exactly what do you want to do on a cry? And sometimes people who are going to give you advice are going to show you in there. Your I would have to say your judgment that's then going to put brakes too. Your if that makes sense. So I would say that sometime you are going to, you know, try to tell Her for the mess, but the thing is that everybody has this specific something special, which she is not necessarily for every one.

Catherine Marche (:

And by being yourself and staying true to yourself, you're going to attract the people are going to love what you really do. But if you try to not be yourself, if you're not going to enjoy what she Making or what you are going to try to do a lot more, and then it's going to take longer and it's going to get the ball rolling. But you have a thing I would say is also GMs. I see so many times people trying to make a living, but the price or a small, because he don't take him to recount that time. We don't take into account everything that comes around like insurance. And, and I think that if you really want to be seen as a puzzle of the one, you do something you love, the way you want to you.

Catherine Marche (:

And this is something that is possible or not. And I don't know that we make sure that if you price it properly, you know, it's not a sheriff that you are running. I mean, price it properly. There's no, and I've seen people who are like need a cardigan and the tech hurdled seven days of eight hours. So that's what the 50 plus hours to make a cardigan. And then they are going to study something like what to teach two pounds. And if you think that's that, even the price of the womb, but I wouldn't, you know, make 50 hours of work for a one hour.

Catherine Marche (:

I mean, yeah. You have to make sure that you price it out.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Yeah. I think that's fantastic advice. And I'm having, it actually felt a bit like that, but I guess you could, in fact, even to set an hourly rate for yourself, just so you know what your aim yeah. Is that how you tend to work? Would you, do you, do you know what an hour you don't have to tell me? Why do you know what an hour of your time is worth to you?

Catherine Marche (:

Yeah. The thing is that if you're the only source of info that you have, and you have to pay your rent, your

food's, your friends for blah, blah, blah. We need to make sure that you're getting to have that coming in. If it doesn't come in your house, you know? So even if let's say you have it, you know, and know the same things, you can see it on, who covers those bills? What happens if that's the other person decides to go away, you still have to, you know, make a living. You can't, you can sell something for a one pound an hour and 15 an hour. That's how, I mean, how come you have self-esteem you need to be proud of what you make.

Catherine Marche (:

You need to understand that what the difference between something that is handmade and some things that she spoke, she met in a factual way where people are not paid decently or where the price of the cost of living is. There is no, you, you, you, you are not in the same category. You can't, you shouldn't compete with that.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Yeah, absolutely. That, that, I think that's fantastic if I spanked you and no one has ever said that yet. So I think it's good. No, it's good. It's good. I think, I think that that's good for people to hear it. And in fact, yeah, it is giving me things to think about it. So I think that's, yeah, that's really good advice because I think that it probably is very easy to understand for yourself and to price yourself. I'm sure that happens much more than the other way round. So I don't know this for a fact, but my instinct tells me that there are plenty of people who aren't charging enough for what they do on a bit. I've seen it myself. I've seen people selling things. And I think, why did you sell them for this price? Because you could charge double that because they're really good.

Vicki Weinberg (:

And I don't know, maybe it's a self-esteem thing partially. Right?

Catherine Marche (:

I think it was probably a set of confidence thing, but I think that I've also heard that people have to see if I'm at the end, coaster making are not worth it or that nobody's ever going to pay that much for what they've done. And it's not true.

Vicki Weinberg (:

I think the thing, you know,

Catherine Marche (:

And you love something, that's why you want to get it. So you don't really look at the price, try to justify the question in your head that, Oh, I don't need to know the code. Oh gosh. And I, you know, you wanted it to you just get it to whatever the price are you going to eat potatoes for all of a sudden, then you are going to go and get it when somebody really wants something, they find a way

Vicki Weinberg (:

That was good. Thank you. And I think you'll probably right. That there's lots of mindset issues around pricing and under the pricing product and time as well. I think, yeah. That's definitely a lot in that.

Catherine Marche (:

Or if you could take some of the hours and some people will not it and do it with some low noble materials at diamond buttons and bits of gold,

Vicki Weinberg (:

Right?

Catherine Marche (:

Yeah. Those on the sell yourself.

Vicki Weinberg (:

That was fantastic advice. Thank you so much. Catherine so I'm going to put some links over in the show notes. So people can go over to your website and take a look at it at your pieces, which are USEFUL and what also link to your social media I'm and everywhere else so that everyone can come and find you. Okay. So thank you so much for being here and for sharing have really enjoyed talking to you.

Catherine Marche (:

Wow. Thank you for the interview was really interesting or enjoy it as well.

Vicki Weinberg (:

Fantastic. Well, thank you so much as always. I hope you really enjoy that conversation with Catherine and myself. I'd love to know what you think you can email me. Vicki@tinychipmunk.com or you could find me on Instagram at VickiWeinbergproductcreation, or remember to subscribe to the show. So you don't miss out on any future episodes. Thank you as always for being here. And I looked forward to talking to you again soon.