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In today’s podcast we discuss whether email marketing is still effective at driving ecommerce sales. (Spoiler alert. It absolutely is)

My guest is Hannah Spicer, an email marketing consultant who helps premium and luxury brands drive more ecommerce sales. Hannah specialises in working with an email tool called Klaviyo.

Don’t worry if you are not using Klaviyo, Hannah’s tips can be applied to whichever email marketing platform you are using. 

We discuss:

  • The type of emails you should be sending
  • How you can automate your emails
  • The types of automations you can use
  • How to segment your list (and what this means)

Whether you are just starting out with sending emails, or would like to drive more sales from what you are doing, this is the podcast for you. 

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USEFUL RESOURCES:

Hannah Spicer Consulting Website

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Hannah Spicer LinkedIn

Klaviyo

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Ometria

Emarsys

This episode is sponsored by Cara Bendon Brand Consultancy

If you need branding & packaging for your product, Cara is my go-to. She and her team create beautiful and unique branding so that your product will impress retailers, stand out on the shelf and look great online.

They also offer packaging and e-commerce website design, so that you can get everything set up and ready to launch, confident that it looks brilliant.

Cara is fantastic at helping guide you through the process and has been a guest on this podcast twice. In fact, she even designed this podcast artwork for me when I worked with her on my branding back in 2021, and I can’t imagine not having this brand now!

If you’d like to chat to Cara about branding for your business, she’s offering a free no-obligation call with any listeners. You can book your free 30-minute call here

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Transcript
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Welcome to the bring your product idea to Life podcast.

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This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products or if you'd

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like to create your own product to sell. I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product

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creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly,

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practical advice as well as inspirational stories from small businesses.

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Let's get started.

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Hello. Today on the podcast, I'm speaking with Hannah Spicer.

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Hannah is an email marketing consultant who helps premium and luxury brands

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drive more ecommerce sales. She specializes in working with an email tool

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called Klaviyo. And that's what we're talking about today. We don't just talk about

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Klaviyo, however. So if you're thinking, oh, actually, I'm using a different tool,

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will this be relevant for me? Absolutely. Will. Hannah also talks about

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email marketing in general and whether it's still effective at driving ecommerce

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sales. Spoiler alert. It absolutely is. And she talks about the

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types of emails that we can be sending and interestingly, about how

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you can automate emails and what kind of automations you can

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use and also how to segment your email list and what this means and why

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it's useful. So whether you are just getting started in email female marketing

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or you've been doing it for a while and would love to see if it

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can bring you in more sales, I think you'll find this a really useful and

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interesting episode. And I would love now to introduce you to Hannah.

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Hi,

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Hannah. Thank you so much for being here. My pleasure. Thank you for

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having me. Can we start with you? Please give an introduction to you, your business

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and what you do. Yeah, absolutely. So, my name's Hannah

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Spicer. I've worked in e commerce and digital marketing for

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20 years now and I run an email marketing

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consultancy business that helps premium and luxury

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brands drive more revenue from their email marketing. Thank

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you. So, Hannah, the first question I've got for you, and this is probably one

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on behalf of listeners, is why should we be using email

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marketing? Does email marketing still drive sales for e commerce

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businesses? Oh, yes, hugely. It's actually

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normally the sale that drives the biggest proportion. I'm sorry, the

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channel that drives the biggest proportion of sales. So 100%.

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It's what we call a bottom of funnel channel, which means that

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if you think about the people that you're sending emails to, they've already

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discovered your brand, they've probably come to your website and they've chosen

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to share their data with you. So they're actually a very warm and engaged

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audience and that tends to be why? Email has the highest

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conversion rate across the digital marketing channels and the highest

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return on investment. So it's a huge area of

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potential and you should definitely have it as part of your marketing mix.

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That's really interesting. Thank you. Because I think that

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nowadays everyone's on so many social channels and everywhere

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else, so I think that, I'm sure there were people wondering, is email still

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something to think about? So that's really helpful. Thank you.

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If you don't mind, I'd love to talk a little bit about the difference between

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different types of emails. Because whenever I hear or

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read someone talking about email marketing, sometimes they'll talk about

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newsletters, sometimes they'll talk about bulletins, sometimes they'll talk about

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automations. What are the types of emails and the

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differences for each, please? Yeah, great question. There's

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two main types and I'll try and cover as many terms as I've heard used

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for each of them. So the first one is what you might call a

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newsletter. Some people call them trade emails, business as

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usual emails. And in some email tools like

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Klaviyo, they're called campaigns. So that essentially is an

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email that you go into the tool you create yourself and

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you send it one off. So that might be like new in this

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week or sale launch or a new collection launch,

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the other side of things. So the other type of email is either called an

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automation or a triggered email or a flow. And

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that's basically an email or a series of emails that you

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set up and then they run in the background for you and they are triggering

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depending on something the user has done. So two of the most

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common ones that hopefully everyone would be familiar with is one is a

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welcome flow. When you first sign up to someone's emails, you'll

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get hopefully an immediate confirmation. And then let's say two days later

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you might get a follow up email. And another one as a

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shopper that we'll probably be familiar with is an abandoned cart email.

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So that's when you've gone to a website, you've added something to your cart, but

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you didn't complete the checkout. And again, you'll typically get a

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reminder perhaps 1 hour after you've done that, and then if you don't shop,

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perhaps 24 hours after. So those are two of the kind of most

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common flows or automations, but there are

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tens of hundreds that you can create for your customers.

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In an ideal world, you've got both of those kinds of emails

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happening at once because your campaigns help you send

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timely messages and they keep your brand top of mind and

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then your flows respond to what action the user takes off the back of that.

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So if you've got both, you're going to be getting the most out of your

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email channel. That's perfect. Thank you. And I'm not going to ask

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lots of questions about newsletters or campaigns because I'm sure we've covered

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that in other episodes. But I would really love to talk a little bit more

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about automations because as you say, you can set up

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automations for all kinds of things, can't you? You know, after the

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purchase or your product's been shipped or leave a review. There's so many

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ways these can be used based on what a customer does on your

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website, assuming you have something that's linking to a website, that is, and we can

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talk perhaps a little bit more about that. But which of these automations

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do we really need? If for someone listening, they haven't even thought about

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automations. Maybe they've got their newsletter that's going out. That's great.

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But nothing is automatically happening. Which of the

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automations we absolutely need and perhaps the ones that we can

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start with. Yeah, so I tend to say

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to prioritize for to begin with. So if you're a startup or if

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you're just getting started with the flow side of things. So two of

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those already mentioned. One is the welcome flow because you obviously want to create

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a really good first impression when somebody first signs up to your email

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marketing. And lots of brands will also have a welcome offer. So that

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is very good at driving sales. It's typically the

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top sales driver out of all of the flows. The

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second one is the abandoned cart. So that's obviously really important for as well,

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kind of recapturing potentially lost sales. The other two

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I'd prioritize are what's called an abandoned browser

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that's a bit earlier on in the purchase journey. So that's when someone has

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come to a website and they've looked at a product, but they didn't add

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it to bag and they didn't check out. So they've still shown some intent and

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some interest. But it's again worth triggering some reminder

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emails to get them to come back and complete their order. And the

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final one would be a post purchase flow. Obviously, we don't just want

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to leave customers who do actually place an order with us. We want to kind

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of nurture them after that happens as well. And that can be

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things like, you know, asking them to engage with you on social media, as you

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said, like asking for a review, but you can also send

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kind of care or inspiration of how to use or wear your

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product, and then you can start to try and cross sell and upsell to them

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after they place their order. So I really think if you're doing email

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marketing, you should have those four flows in place as soon

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as possible, really to get you in a good position. That's really

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useful. Thank you. And thank you for giving some examples of what we can put

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in them as well, because I think that can be definitely be something that holds

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people back from setting them up in the first places. What do I

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say? And how easy are these sorts of

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flows to set up? I'm sure it's going to depend on the service you're

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using. Yeah. So, I mean, I

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only work with an email tool called Klaviyo because I think it's the best out

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there for ecommerce businesses. It's got a very strong

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relationship with Shopify, but also providers like

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BigCommerce and WooCommerce as well. What Klaviyo do

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have are lots of help articles, but they also have what they call

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blueprints, which is if you don't really know how to get started, you can

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start with a blueprint, which is they'll kind of create a basic flow

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for you, and then you can start to think about what content you want to

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put in each of those. So it's definitely something that could get you

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started. And I guess it's worth as well,

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kind of signing up to some of your competitors and going through these journeys on

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their websites. Because we can all do that. We can all

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see these emails. Right? So you could deliberately trigger some abandoned cart

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emails. You can sign up to welcome emails. Of course.

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That should also kind of give you a sense and some inspiration of how to

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get started with the flows. That's a really good tip. Thank you. I hadn't

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actually thought about signing up to competitors to see what they're doing, but that's a

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really good idea. I think when you're stuck for inspiration, it's always

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good to see what other people are doing. Yeah, absolutely.

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And you mentioned Klaviyo there, Hannah, and I have heard of Klaviyo, I'll be

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honest, but I don't know tons about it. So as well as

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automations, what else does Klaviyo do? That means that, because I know you said this

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is one that you really recommend. Yeah. What else does it

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do? So I think for me, Klaviyo stands out because

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it was built specifically for ecommerce businesses and that means

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there's a lot of best practice and easy kind of usability

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baked into the platform. So there's four kind of main sections

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to klaviyo. One is the flows that we've talked about. One

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is forms. So you can also actually kind of build your kind of data capture

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pop ups within klaviyo. Two, and everything will feed through

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automatically to your welcome flow. There is

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campaigns, so those are the newsletters that you want to send. And then there's obviously

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your kind of customer data section. So you can look at all of

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your subscribers and shoppers in there and look at kind

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of endless, really rich information on them as well, actually. So you can also

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build segments in there. So perhaps you want to build a segment of

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anyone who visited the site in the last six months but hasn't placed an

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order yet, or anyone who's shopped more than once. And so you

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can look at your repeat customers. The functionality there is very

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kind of easy to use as a marketer. You don't have to be, be a

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coder or anything like that. It's very kind of user friendly.

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So those are the kind of main sections. And it's so

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powerful when you plug it in to shopify to kind of drive

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a really good percentage of revenue for you. That's really interesting.

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Thank you. And I do want to go back to something you mentioned a moment

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ago, because you spoke about segmenting your email list. Do

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you mind breaking down for us what that means? Yeah. So

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segmentation is really talking to specific groups of

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customers, depending on their behaviour or particular properties

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about them. Probably the most common ways to do this

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are website behavior. So, as I mentioned, you could talk to your

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existing customers slightly differently, to anyone who hasn't shopped with you

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before. Or you could talk to your vip segment differently. For example,

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that might be anyone who shopped more than three times with you or has spent

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over a certain amount. Another really common way is email

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engagement. So you might want to talk to your, the people that are kind of

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opening and clicking and engaging with your emails the most. You might decide to talk

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to them a bit more frequently, and then those who are showing they're not quite

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so interested, you might want to kind of taper them off a bit. So

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those are two potential ways to use segments.

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What I would say is if you've got a smaller database, so let's

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say potentially less than 5000 subscribers, and if you've

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got flows in place, I wouldn't get too concerned about starting to

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segment. It's probably not worth your while. Trying to kind of

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take that database down into smaller groups. Your

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flows are going to help you talk to people in a relevant way anyway.

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It's more as your email database starts to grow that you should

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tend to start to think about that. So don't worry if you're just getting

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started. That's really helpful. Thank you. But I assume

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that once you are ready to start segmenting your database, because you've mentioned all these

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clever things you can do whether someone's purchased you or not. And how many times

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is that something Klaviyo can do for you automatically? Can it put all of this

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in? Yeah, it's got all of that data because it's looking at

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your purchase behavior, it's looking at how people are behaving on your

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site and it's looking at your email data. So anything you've already got

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there, it can work on. And you can also plug in

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other information. So whether it's information from your store

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poS or your reviews tool or your customer service

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tool, any data that you can plug into that kind of Shopify and

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Klaviyo ecosystem can be used to segment your

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customers. That sounds really useful. Thank you. And can you even go

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down to, I don't know which products people are buying? So I'm just

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thinking off top of my head that if someone's buying products a,

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rather than product b, they might need a different follow up sequence, for example.

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Yeah, absolutely. That's a great example. Yeah. So some of my

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clients who either have fairly small

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product catalogs, so let's say they might have nine products if they're kind

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of. I've got like a beauty well being customer who has that

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smaller catalog, or brands with bigger catalogs

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sometimes pick out their kind of three best selling products or categories

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and create specific versions for those. Exactly. So you can

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get really relevant and targeted in that way.

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That's really helpful. And so you mentioned that you're working with luxury

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brands at the moment. Are there anything that the brands you're working with,

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any examples that come to mind? Obviously, you don't need to share the brands of

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things that people are doing with emails that you think, oh, actually that's

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really good. And that's something that another brand could do in their own way, of

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course. Yeah, absolutely. I mean,

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interestingly, I work with premium and luxury brands, but a lot of

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the kind of strategy and the things that they're doing applies to

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any product based business, really. So as I said, those kind of

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core strategies of creating flows and talking to

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people and nurturing them at whatever stage of the life cycle they're at.

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A welcome journey, regardless of the product, is about kind of

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hopefully showing someone some kind of offer an incentive,

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bringing them on board, telling them about your brand and then trying to nurture them

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to shop with you for the first time. Abandoned browse is

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about kind of reminding people of your unique selling points and kind of building

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that trust and getting them to come back and kind of purchase for

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you. Post purchase is about kind of nurturing

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them after they've shopped and kind of cross selling and upselling to them and

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hopefully increasing their repeat purchases.

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The strategies and the tools are the same. It

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just depending on your business and your product,

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your messaging and your design and your timing will probably

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be different, but a lot of those things are relevant for

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everybody. That's really helpful. Thank you. So,

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actually, I'm thinking as a business, you could go and look at the emails you

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get from any business you're signed up to as a

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consumer for inspiration in that case, which is really

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nice. Yeah, absolutely. And there are, you know,

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focused on those kind of priority flows. There are lots of other stages of the

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journey that you can look at. So another one I really like is called a

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win back flow, which is if somebody has shopped with you before,

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but let's say they haven't for, I don't know, four or six months,

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you can then try and incentivize them to shop with you again so it

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can feel really targeted and personalized. You can say, you know, dear

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Vicky, as a valued customer of ours, we noticed you haven't shopped for a while.

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We'd love to give you ten pounds off your next order.

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That's another really good flow, actually, because it's always

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cheaper to kind of reactivate an existing customer than acquire a new

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one. So that's another one to bring into the suite. Once you're a bit more,

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you know what you're doing and you've dipped your toe in the water.

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That's really helpful. Thank you. I really like that example. I've actually got a few

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of those recently. It feels like that's something more and more brands are starting to

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do, actually. Yeah, I think so, yeah. And do you think

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that this is maybe slightly off topic, but I'm really curious because you would have

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had lots of experience with this. Do you feel that when they're

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receiving, like, a flow, whether it's welcome, you've signed up for their site,

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or an abandoned cart, or you haven't shopped for a while, do you think

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customers are expecting to get some sort of benefit from that email. So

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quite often, for example, I'll get ones from brands where they say, oh, you've left

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this in your basket, purchase now and get 10% off as an

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example. And there are definitely brands where I know that's coming

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and I maybe don't check out right away because you know that if you don't,

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you're going to get that email. I'm hopefully not the only one who does this.

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Or as you say, you get something and you get an email saying, well, you

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haven't shopped for a while, here's a bonus.

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Do you think there's an expectation from the consumer that's

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happening? And how much do brands need to think about that? I guess is what

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I'm saying, because especially for a small business, it's really

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hard to be building discounts in that much.

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Absolutely. Yeah. So that's a really good question.

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I think customers definitely expect some kind of welcome offer

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and I do recommend to, I think, nearly all my clients to have

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one because it helps build your database and it helps to convert them to a

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customer. I think in all other instances, you need

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to be quite strategic and tactical with these promotions.

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So the example that you talked about of kind of abandoning your

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cart, I would only ever include an offer in that

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email when it's the second reminder email, so not the first one, because

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sometimes people just do need a kind of a nudge and a reminder, but the

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follow up email that goes 24 hours later. I would include a code,

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but only if they've never shopped with you before. So you can make these kind

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of different journeys for different types of customers. As I said, kind of your

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existing customers versus your leads only offer them incentive if they haven't

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shopped with you before, then it's the same as your welcome offer. Basically,

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the win back, I think, is slightly different and I think you genuinely are kind

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of reactivating an existing customer. And I also say at that point,

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your discount should actually be better than your welcome offer because you should be

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treating an existing customer more, more specially than you do

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a new customer. Those are kind of main

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places I bring it in, but other places are things like anniversary of first

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purchase, or you might ask people for their birthday and send them a gift on

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their birthday. I think as long as you are

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explaining the reason for the discount in the automation

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and you're making those codes unique, which you can do

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very easily if you're using Klavi and Shopify. So rather than it being a

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happy birthday, it's a mix of numbers and letters that they can't

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reuse, they can't share. So it feels much more exclusive and

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exciting. I think those are the ways to make sure you're kind of protecting

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your margin everywhere you can. Thank you. That's so

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helpful. Because it's really hard, isn't it? Because all of us are consumers as well

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as business owners, so we all want to feel like we're getting that

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special discount. And also, as a business owner, it can be hard

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to kind of give away margin on every purchase. And

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I've definitely seen it's a lot of bigger brand. I'm not going to name them.

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There were definitely some bigger brands who seem like they give you a discount every

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day of the week, but presumably they planned for that. But it's a

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small card. Yeah. I think we all know those

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brands and I do know one of them that builds that into their

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prices, so they expect that most of their purchases are going to happen

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at a discount and that's kind of built in. But, yes, I agree. And I

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think by using those discounts strategically, hopefully it

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means you can avoid more kind of mass discounting and sale periods as

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well. So it's a better way to do it. Yeah. And they also feel more

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valuable as well. I know that the brands where you very rarely get. Get a

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discount, and I do think a lot of luxury brands fit in that category. They

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maybe only do a discount a certain times of the year or certain points for

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you as a customer. It does feel. It does

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for me. It does inspire me to purchase more because I know that

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I'm not going to be getting that same offer next week, next month, whatever it

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is. Absolutely, yeah. And look, you don't have to do

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discounts. It's not a rule that you have to follow. And it doesn't have to

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be a percentage off, could be a monetary value, it could be

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a delivery promotion, it could be a gift with purchase, it could be

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an exclusive service or something. So don't feel that you have to. But

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they do tend to be the most effective kind of actually driving those sales.

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It's really useful advice, though. Thank you, Hannah. Because I think actually, for me, sometimes

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free delivery is enough to, you know, to make that

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difference, but it's good that, you know, people can think of different ways and try

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different things and see what works. Yeah.

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So we've spoken quite a lot about Klaviyo. I would love to know,

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for anyone who's sort of thinking, oh, yes, actually, that sounds really good. I mean,

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for me. The fact that it integrates with all these platforms I think is a

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huge bonus because I can't remember what I used a long

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time ago, I had a shopify site and I remember I had to copy and

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paste any subscriber details into my. Whatever. I

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can't even tell you what I was using for email. So we're going back a

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long time. I had to copy and paste them in manually. So I'm sure the

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fact that everything integrates so well with a big bonus.

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But how would you go about getting started? Because I feel like for

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any new piece of software or tool, for a lot of us, there is that

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thing of, oh, gosh, is it just going to be a load of hassle to

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start doing something new, however good it sounds? So is it easy

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to get started? How would we do that? It is. So,

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yeah, I think it's about taking the first step and kind of creating a Klaviyo

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account and having a little look around. They do have, as I said, blueprints.

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They've got lots of help articles. They've even got kind of course, you can do

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training courses if you don't want to do that,

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because you're running the entire rest of your business and you're focusing on your other

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digital marketing channels as well. You can hand that over

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to somebody else. So that is one of the services that I offer, too, which

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is a kind of full setup for you. And the aim of

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my service is to take all the heavy lifting out of that. So I would

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copyright, design, build and launch all of your

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flows for you. So hand it over to me and four to six

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weeks later, everything is there, ready, and it's running for you. And

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then hopefully you feel confident and empowered to kind of go in and send,

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I don't know, a weekly campaign to kind of help drive that channel

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further. But the beauty of Klaviyo

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is when you've got those flows set up, you don't have to do anything with

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them on a day to day basis. So the bare minimum is you kind of

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want to check in once a month to just kind of make sure everything is

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triggering as expected and have a look at the benchmarks. But you haven't

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actually got to do anything with them. They're running in the background for you

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that's really useful. Thank you. And I've got another question about getting set

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up. Before I ask you that one, I'd love to know because I didn't think.

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I've only thought about this when you said about checking in every month. Does Klaviyo

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give you any sort of analytics? Can you see how many people are receiving your

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email, opening your email, clicking, buying? You

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can see nearly everything that you would think that you might want to. So they

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have a lovely dashboard when you first log in, which shows you the

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percentage of overall site revenue that Klaviyo has driven for you in the last 30

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days, which is always really encouraging to see. And then you can see a

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breakdown of the performance by campaigns and flows,

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but you can go into any detail you want. So you could go into each

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individual flow and look at, as you said, who's opened, who's clicked, who's

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converted. You can even click into an individual email and look

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at almost like a heat map of where people are clicking on the email. So

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I think one of the, the beauties of email is that everything is

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completely trackable. So, yes, you can see all of your

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metrics. And Klaviyo also will show you kind of benchmark

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against other clients that they have in your industry. So if you're beauty, or if

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you're apparel or sportswear, whatever it is,

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they can show you how you're kind of performing against their other clients, which is

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really useful, too. Yeah, that sounds really good. And I like the fact you

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mentioned you can see sort of the sales you're making from each email as well.

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Yeah, because, I mean, that is the goal. Yeah, because that is the goal, isn't

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it? And I think, especially if you're trialing different emails, perhaps, or

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you're trying to work out how well your flows are performing, it must be really

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good to be able to see, are they making me money or not?

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Definitely. And my other question about getting started,

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sorry, because I know I'm jumping about a bit by sunk. Any thought of the

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analytics is imagine now you've got this huge

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database in mailchimp or mailer light or wherever it

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is. How easy is it to move

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what you have already into Klaviyo? Is that a massive headache? Yeah, no,

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I'm glad you asked that. So, because so many

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businesses have made the move from Mailchimp over to Klaviyo, they've

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actually built an API, which means it's incredibly slick

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and quick. So you literally kind of copy and paste an API

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code from Mailchimp into Klaviyo, and all of your customer data is pulled

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over, which is brilliant. If there's another email

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tool you're on which doesn't have that API, it's still not that painful.

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You essentially need to export your contacts and plug them

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into Klaviyo and export your unsubscribes just to make sure that

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you're reaching out to people who are opted in and you're not reaching out to

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those unsubscribes. But other than that,

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it's not a big, painful process doing that migration. I've done it for

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lots and lots of businesses over the last four years. And, yeah,

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it's not painful at all. Thank you. I think that's really reassuring. So

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I know that I'm trying to think of all the barriers people have when they're

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thinking about. Yeah, I think, to be honest, I think

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it's much easier to do that than to

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try and create these journeys and experiences in one

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of those other tools which aren't really built for ECOM. So I know that

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Mailchimp are doing some work to trying to catch up with the things that Klaviyo

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are doing. But Mailchimp is an email tool for

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anybody. It's for service providers, it's for small

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businesses, for anybody, whereas Klaviyo is built for e.com.

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so it's got so much best practice and

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clever, clever tools and things that you can do just

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baked in. So I would say just the initial pain of migration,

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which isn't big, is so much so worth it because you'll quickly see a return

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on that project that makes sense. And is Klaviyo

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the only mail platform that designed for e commerce? Because I think it's the

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only one I've heard of. Oh, gosh. That's a good question.

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There are, I mean, there are some bigger kind of

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enterprise tools, which some more kind of established retailers use.

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So there's one called Ometria, which has more kind of

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CRM baked in. There's one called Emarsys, which I used in my

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last in house role at Kurt Geiger.

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I think it's probably the best for. If you're on

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Shopify, you're probably best on Klaviyo. Yeah,

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it just works so well with that platform. So. Yeah, that's really

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helpful. I thought I'd ask then. You saved everyone going off and doing the research.

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They've got the answer to that now. And before we wrap

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up, Hannah, was there any other sort of things you hear from people

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when they're considering Klaviyo that I haven't asked you about, that you wanted to

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cover? No, I

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don't think so. I think we've covered all

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the key areas. I think you can get a

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demo. You can also sign up on a free version. So you haven't got to

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kind of commit and start paying anything and sign a contract or anything like

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that. You can really have a good look around the tool and see that

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it works for you before spending any money. So

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that would be another thing to say. That's really helpful. Thank

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you. My final question, Hannah, is what would your number

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one piece of advice be regarding email marketing specifically for

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e commerce business? Yeah. So I think what's really important

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is to send regular emails. That sounds

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very simple, but I think lots of businesses feel a bit

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reticent that they think they're going to bombard their subscribers

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or they're not finding the time to prioritize it. And I think that's a

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huge mistake because hopefully they'll probably know that every time

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you send an email, you do drive sales and your subscribers

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have shared their data with you and they want to hear from you. And if

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you email too infrequently, they'll almost kind of forget who you are or whether

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they signed up with you on the first place. So please don't

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hold back. Please do send frequently, whether that's once or

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twice a week, and then also set up these flows so they're helping you

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get more emails out too because you'll see the results

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in terms of the revenue. That's brilliant advice, Hannah. Thank you so

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much. Thank you for everything you've shared. So we're going to link to your website

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and your socials and everywhere people can find you in the show notes for the

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episode. So thank you again. Amazing. Thank you for having me. It was my

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pleasure. Thank you so much for

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listening. Right to the end of this episode, do remember that you can get the

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full back catalogue and lots of free resources on my website,

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vickiwineberg.com. please do remember to rate and review this

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episode if you've enjoyed it and also share it with a friend who you think

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might find it useful. Thank you again and see you next week.