Developing a unique food product – with Daniel Twiss – Soul Fruit

Welcome to the bring your product idea to Life podcast.

This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products or if you'd

like to create your own product to sell. I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product

creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly,

practical advice as well as inspirational stories from small businesses.

Let's get started.

Hello. So today I'm talking to Daniel Twiss from Soul Fruit. So

Soul Fruit makes new and exciting dried fruit snacks using the best quality

tropical fruits simply dried into crunchy chips or chewy

slices. So Daniel had so much passion for

his products, which really comes across in this interview. I

feel you'll feel it bursting into your ears with this passion for what he

does. And he had so much practical advice to

share with you as well. I personally found his story really inspirational.

I think if you are looking to sell a product in the food

space, this is an absolute must listen. But actually, a lot of Daniel's

advice translates really well into any type of product.

He speaks a lot about being authentic, about knowing your brand story

and staying true to that. And I was really

fascinated to hear that despite not having any background in retail

or in food, how Daniel and his wife Natalie were able to

overcome any obstacles, any things they weren't sure how to do, they

really demonstrate a can do attitude, which I find really inspiring,

and I hope that you do, too. So I would love now to introduce you

to Daniel.

So, hi, Daniel. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for

having me on. Vicki. Great to be here. So can we please start with you?

Give an introduction to yourself, your business, and what you sell. Hi, there. So,

yeah, my name is Daniel Twiss, and I set up Soul Fruit with my wife,

Natalie. And what we're trying to do, we're trying to make snacking simple

again with our single ingredient, dried fruit snacks that are

there to kind of satisfy all of your cravings, give you those little soulful moments

of enjoyment that you look for when it's snacking, and just try to make every

day a little bit more fun through snacking. That's great. Thank you. And

just also tell everyone what fruits you have. Because I think one

of the things that I think is quite unique about Soul Fruit is

you have some fruit that not everyone else is selling. So

tell us what fruits you have at the moment. Yeah, absolutely. So we

think one of the issues within dried fruit snacking is there's just very little

variety. A lot of people have tried your classic prunes, dates,

apricots. Some of the kind of slightly more old school fruit, and then when it

comes into more snacking format, there's dried mango, maybe a bit of

dried pineapple, but that's kind of it. So what we're looking to do is try

and really kind of grow the dried fruit category with kind of more interesting varieties.

So we've got three fruits at the moment. We do do a mango, we do

a jackfruit, and also a dragon fruit as well. Perfect.

Thank you. And I would love to know what inspired you

to get started with this. I know you mentioned that you wanted to change snacking,

but what actually made you think, do you know what? I could actually start a

business here. Yeah. So it was something that was kind of

on my wife, Nat, and I's mind for several years, actually.

It was kind of in the back burner, and then eventually we decided to kind

of take the plunge. But basically, both nad and I both have quite

a big sweet tooth and we're both just massive

snackers. But whilst we were living in

Asia and living in Sydney for several years, and one of the

things that really kind of opened our eyes is just the amazing variety of

tropical fruits that there are in the world. I'm a big, big

lover of kind of fruit flavored and sweet tasting things,

and it was just a really interesting experience of just trying all these different

delicious, exotic fruits that I'd never, ever had before,

trying to be a little bit healthier. We used to, back in the day, snack

a lot on, like, percy pigs, haribos, all of your

delicious tasting, but kind of the worst ingredients kind of snacks out

there. And as we were trying to be a little bit more healthy, we were

basically eating a lot more fresh fruit, dried fruit. I was

even blending up fruit and freezing them, making into them ice lollies and

things like that, just as a way of trying to kind of experiment in. As

I said, we really loved snacking, so any different form we could kind of turn

the fruit into was really, really exciting for us. So,

yeah, we just spent a lot of time trying lots of these different fruits. And

when we then came back to the UK on holiday a couple of times,

we were always trying to retain those health turns that we've kind of

done in our lives and not just diving straight back into our Percy pigs and

so on. So we come back and we kind of go to the dried fruit

section or look at the healthy snacks aisle and try to find something to kind

of keep us going. But we just always found that in the UK, there was

just a really limited variety of dried fruit.

And even what's worse, a lot of it's got additives to it,

sugar or it's yogurt coated, or it's got preservatives in

it. And it wasn't really all that healthy anymore. So,

yeah, we were just basically kind of in a bit of a position where

we wanted to keep snacking on more dried fruit, but whenever we were back here,

just never found enough satisfying options for

us. So after a while, we kind of were like, there's definitely a gap

in the market here, and it's something that we should

do. I massively maintain to this day, this

is the only business we would have ever set up. We weren't those people kind

of looking to set up a business and then finding the right product for it.

We just, through our lives and through our kind of own habits and trying to

eat that bit healthier, kind of came across this gap and were

really like, I think there's something we could do here. So that was kind of

how the idea was born out. Took a couple of years of kind

of nestling in the back of the mind before we actually really took the plunge

and decided to go ahead and actually try and start the business. Oh, that's

fascinating. Thank you. And as you were talking, I was reflecting on a few things.

One is that you're right, actually, if you go to a dried fruit tile, even

now, you do get a little bit more variety, but

it's still sort of 95% of

varieties of the same fruit. And also, I was thinking about the fact that I

actually hadn't eaten a jackfruit or a dragon fruit until I tried your

products. I've never eaten one fresh still to this day. So

I think that's actually really exciting as well, that you're introducing people to different

fruits and different flavors. Absolutely. And I think

that we have the philosophy there are so many

delicious, exotic tropical fruits in the world. Why don't we have

more of them as dry fruit options? We're big believers in that

nature knows best. And I think it's very, very hard to ever

replicate or get nearly as good flavor as you get in nature.

Passion fruit, mango, watermelon, dragon fruit.

There are just so many wide ranging, exotic, delicious

flavors. And part of what we want to do is exactly expose people to all

these different tropical flavors that you wouldn't otherwise easily get in this

country, or you'd be having to pay an absolute premium to kind of get your

hands on. So that was really kind of a big part of the idea there.

And I think we live in a world now where a lot more people

have traveled a lot more and tried different cuisines, different flavors,

different ingredients, and I think people are really excited by that.

I know nad and I, whenever we go to a new country, we love going

to kind of like markets, whether it is looking at the different kind of fruit

and veg stands and so on, and trying to pick out and figure out what

weird and wonderful fruits they've got, or whether it's just trying local cuisine.

There's so much excitement that comes from those trying different flavors, and that's what

we're trying to replicate and bring back to people here in the UK. Absolutely. And

it is really exciting. And also, I can also say from personal experience, it's a

really nice way to introduce children to other fruits. As you

know, my children love your snacks. I imagine if I put a

jackfruit in front of them, they might turn their nose up. But funnily enough, when

it's dried, it's something that feels a lot more accessible. So I

think that's really nice as well, because we're all trying to get variety into our

own diets, our children's diets, and I think this is a nice way to do

it. Absolutely. I think that

snacking has that benefit to it, doesn't it? When things feel in

those snackable textures or snackable formats. There's something very,

very enticing and appealing about that, and there is psychologies and so on behind

it. But I just think that ability to have something that

tastes great, naturally sweet, because there's nothing added, but

fruit just does provide that natural sweetness combined with all the nutrition

and so on of fruit, but that just excitement and exotic flavors.

Yeah. And just having it in a little bright packet just makes so much difference,

doesn't it? Rather than giving someone a bit of raw

fruit, for example, which, of course, is also a lovely way to enjoy fruit, but

then, as you say, some of these more exotic fruits, they don't actually travel that

well, and they travel a long way. Whereas in dried form, of course,

that's something different. Yeah, absolutely.

And I think that's one of the things that's really important for us, is we

try to keep our snacks as close to nature as possible. But we absolutely

agree that fresh fruit is probably the best thing that you can eat. It's just

that challenge of getting a fresh dragon fruit, jackfruit, mango, or trying to eat a

mango on the way to work or before the gym can sometimes be a little

bit challenging. And that's why dried fruit works kind of really so well for

that. But, yeah, I think exactly that ability

to deliver those kind of snackable textures and snackable

moments just makes it so much more of a kind of accessible and

interesting snack. So it's really clear to me

that you really knew what you wanted to achieve with your product.

So talk a little bit through when you decided, okay, we're going to go ahead

with this, because you mentioned you'd had the idea sort of bouncing around a couple

of years. Was there something in particular that made you think, this is the right

time to get started, or was it just, ok, we've been thinking about this

long enough now let's do something about.

I think. I think it was mean. So we previously lived in Hong Kong and

Sydney, and then spent kind of six months in Vietnam. And

it was essentially we were moving back to the UK. This was actually just before

COVID We were planning on moving back, and we kind of had

this idea in our minds for a long time. The thought

of the different kind of fruits and different flavors and so on was always

there. We kind of essentially wanted to be a bit Willy Wonka when it came

to dried fruit. As we said, we walked around these different fruit markets,

picking up every different kind of fruit we could, and then just seeing like, can

we dry this? How can we dry it? What can we snacks can we make

out of it? So it'd been there for quite a long time, but we

decided to take the plunge when we were moving. Spent

six months in Vietnam, traveling around, meeting all kinds

of different fruit farmers, drying factories,

really as many people as we could, which was quite an experience

because neither Nat or I come from the industry.

We're british, so we'd kind of turned up in Vietnam trying

to message people, drive to factories. We met a few

interesting characters along the way, I'll be honest. But,

yeah, at the time, basically, we just kind of were trying to dry as many

different exotic fruits and trying different ways of drying just to see what

really we could do within there. As I said, we thought there was very little

variety. And for us, that variety actually comes out

in two key elements within Soul Fruit. The first, as you mentioned, is those different

varieties of fruits. So the different flavors. But then

also what we have is we have these two different textures, the way in which

we dry our fruits. So we have what we call our chewy slices, and then

we also have our crunchy chips. So it's quite funny,

that personal experience that brought us round to it. As we

said, we really, really love snacking, and my wife napped. For her, the

most important thing, actually, is texture of her snacks. She

really likes really satisfying, chewy snacks. Whereas for

me, I'm more about often typically crunchy snacks. I'm more of

maybe in the daytime, like a crisp eater. But then I also really

love kind of fruit flavored things. So it kind of

turned into this, us together in a product

whereby when we were working with these different factories, we were trying all the different

drying methods out there. And there's been huge developments in terms of the drying

technologies of what they can do and how we can kind of really develop

different textures. But again, even when we looked at what was existing in

the market, often a lot of the dried mango that you'd come across is

quite tough and leathery. And it didn't really have the same

satisfying chew that you would have got from a packet of sweets,

or you wouldn't be able to get this kind of crunchy, crisp texture

that you would have got from a packet of crisps. But that was really kind

of what we were trying to do, is trying to actually replicate

what consumers or what we would look for when it came to those really

ultra processed and artificial snacks. How much can we provide the same

snacking experience that you look for there, but without any of

those health issues, without any of the saturated fat, artificial

flavors, ingredients and so on, just

because I think it's so

possible to deliver that. But people don't assume. People assume when

it comes to snacking, they're going to be unhealthy. People don't think, oh, you

can still snack, and it can also still be a really healthy

product. And that's what we wanted to kind of challenge the status quo with a

bit delivering those same satisfying snacking

experiences, but with none of the drawbacks. Yeah,

and what I really like as well, that you've spoken about is that you didn't

kind of accept anything to be the status quo because you were talking about going

to different places and looking at different drying methods. And I have to be honest,

again, until I tried your products, the only type of dried fruit I had

had, personally, is that chewy tough.

What I think of as traditional dried fruit, the fact that you could dry fruit

into a crisp form and still retain the sweetness and the flavor

was something that I've never seen. And I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but

I've personally have never seen it. So, yeah, I really like the fact that you

guys were obviously very open to

what is possible rather than what isn't. Yeah,

absolutely. And that was really, I guess, coming from that position of a

consumer, of being passionate about snacking. And we have

tried most snacks you'll come across in a snackard in a supermarket.

And I think for us, knowing what we'd enjoyed about different

snacks and therefore, how we can take elements of those and bring them into other

products, because it was really important for us that when you

drying fruits, if you add sugar when you're drying, it actually just makes

everything really easy. It keeps the texture nice and soft.

You can dry it for slightly too long in the drying machine, slightly

shorter, and it still comes out very good. It's a real

stabilizer. But when you're drying fruits without added sugar,

there is a lot more skill in terms of how you're drying it. The moisture

content you're drying to the length of drying time, how you cut the fruit even

before it goes into the drying machines. And that's

how we kind of ended up being a slightly willy Wonka, where we were just

really trying to change every different measure or input that we could

and see what would happen at the end and just really

experimenting, because I think there were so many opportunities to do that, but

with the chips in particular, which is, I guess, something that really, we're quite

unique in doing, we use a freeze drying

technology so that still retains all the nutrition because it's happening at low

temperature. But actually, it's quite interesting. Freeze drying came

about as a way of bringing food up to space. That was

its very, very first initial kind of function. And you could essentially

then take food, take out the moisture and then put it back

with water or put a piece in a glass of water and it would naturally

rehydrate. So that technology existed and people would

maybe drying fruits or other products using it, but

they were just taking whatever the output was and saying, well, that's freeze dried fruit.

That's how it is. Whereas I think for us, approaching it from that other perspective

of going, I want to try to achieve a snack that I would

typically pick up in a supermarket shelves. How can I use this

technology and try and work with it and adjust it to get as close to

that as possible? As you said, not just accepting this is how freeze dried fruit

comes out, really kind of playing around with all the kind of the process, the

set points to see how we can make it for us, what we consider

to be the most satisfying texture we could get. Yeah,

I really admire your resilience, by the way, to get to where you

have. So was it a case of finding places. You mentioned you in Vietnam.

So was it finding places in Vietnam that would work with you to experiment

a little bit? Essentially, because I assume this is an assumption that

they weren't perhaps doing

be when they started working with you, perhaps not the exact same process.

So was it finding someone who was willing to say, okay, let's try something new

and see what happens? Yeah, exactly that.

One of our first products was our soft dried dragon fruit and dragonfruit

chips. So soft dried dragon fruit we had tried before, and that is

something that actually, Vietnam is a very big producer of dragon fruit,

so that product kind of is available. And when we were speaking with the

factories there that actually then are able to do the other drying technologies, we

were then working through all the different kind know, set points and so on with

them to try and get know what we consider to be the best

possible output. So, yeah, it took a lot of back and forth, a lot

of patience on their behalf. I think. I think they were

probably a little bit surprised. Two kind of british

backpackers almost basically trying to do whatever they

could and being kind of a bit obsessive about the different kind of snack qualities

at the end. But, yeah, really fortunately, we worked with some really great

suppliers and farmers there that had that patience, were willing to work with

us, and tried to test out the different kind of technologies and the

different products we could create at the end of it. And I am dying to

know. Daniel, did either of you have a food or retail background

at all before you? Not at all, no, not at all. So

we do have a complementary background. So my background was in kind of engineering, so

I have worked in kind of supply chains and other elements like that. So

I deal with a lot of the kind of finance, operations, logistics elements.

And my wife Natalie, she's been a background in kind of marketing

and also a yoga teacher. So her background is more of that

branding, marketing, the kind of health and wellness kind of

space. So we definitely had complementary

backgrounds in terms of the skills needed to run the business,

but nothing in the food and beverage. All of our

experiences, if you could call it that, purely comes from a

consumer just trying different elements and just kind of

knowing what we liked. Yeah, thank you for sharing that, because I think it's

really important for people to hear that you don't need a specific

background to get into a certain product category. So

I just think that's really good for people to hear because you had no experience

in food and drinks other than, you say, being extremely passionate about it,

and you still are able to produce this amazing product. So I just

think that's something. I personally think that's really

inspiring. Thank you. I

massively agree with that. I think passion goes a long way. It really

is underrated because in setting up the business, there was a lot of times where

we had to spend a lot of time researching packaging

requirements and how to label correctly and nutritional

tables and so on. But because it was all focused around something that we

were passionate about, we quite enjoyed all of the kind of

investigation and all the learning that we had to do for it. So I think

it is just something that is massively underrated where people think you need to have

practical experience. I think that is something that you can

learn along the way, but you can't learn your passion that either is

there or it's not. So if you have that, the rest of it is all

achievable, I think. Yeah. Thank you. And as you just touched on there,

there's obviously so much that you need to do between having a

product that you're happy with and actually getting that product to

market. Is there anything in particular, or even more than one

thing that you think if someone else is listening and they've got an idea

for a product in the food and drink space, is there anything you think it'd

be useful for someone to know? Anything that you were perhaps caught out

on or didn't realize? I mean, there were definitely a few

things that we kind of would have been caught out on, to be honest. I

think probably the number one thing that we found in working the food and drink

space is how great and helpful other brands or other

founders are. Because I think in food and drink, firstly, there's probably more

startups there than in any other space. Everyone has

their brownie recipe or drink cocktail recipe that

they like. So I think there's always new products coming out into the market

and we found along the way that just speaking to other brands and asking for

a piece of advice here or there, something that could have taken us a week

to try and figure out on our own, and we just would speak to another

brand and say, just out of curiosity, how do you manage? Where do you

go to get your nutritional label created, how to test your product? Oh,

here's the company that we used, and they're suddenly cut out a week's worth

of work of your research just with that one answer. So I think it's

amazing because these different brands and products

aren't really, or most of the time, aren't direct competitors. We know

a lot of brands that are healthy drinks or healthy bars or

chocolate based products, and they're so willing to be helpful

and give you those piece of advices along the way that I think that was

probably one of the biggest helps that we definitely had. That's

so nice to hear, first of all, because I don't hear that very often, I

think that's a really nice thing to hear. And also I think reassuring, because I

think depending

on your personality type, it can actually be really hard to ask for help or

approach someone. And it can almost feel like a bit, is it okay to ask?

So hopefully you've given people the confidence to actually just go and ask the question

as well. Because I think the worst people can say is no. And I have

to say I found, just from my experience with this podcast, people often

like to talk about their business, they like to talk about what they've learned and

they want to be helpful. So definitely

reminder. Yeah. And we try to have that pay it forward

mentality. If people reach out to us, even when you're on a busy day, you

kind of put yourself in that position. You're like, if I answer this email and

I can tell them this, that the other how much I know, I've helped them,

how much time I've saved them, and there's a massive pay it forward,

people are always willing to help back. So I think it's just a great environment

to be in. Absolutely. So we have talked

about this a little bit, but I wonder if there's anything else about what

makes Soul Fruit different to other dried fruits on the market that we haven't

covered that you'd like to talk about. So we've spoken a bit about the fruits,

we've spoken about the drying process. Is there anything else you want to tell

us? Yeah, I think that the big difference for

us and positioned in the market versus a lot of the other brands or the

kind of snack products out there is. I think that kind of consumer focus

that it came from, snackers for snackers, is kind of what we like to think

about. And I think that kind of positioning of trying to

say we want to really deliver maximum value in every way

that we can to our customers. So whether that is the quality of the fruit

that we're using, that means that it has that really great flavor,

whether it's the texture that we're drying it to. Again, we're trying to achieve those

most satisfying textures that you would otherwise have got from the ultra processed,

really unhealthy products in terms of sustainability

as well. So we're members of 1% for the planet. So 1% of all

of our revenue actually goes back to supporting a blue Dragons

children's foundation in Vietnam. And that's really important for us to have that kind

of circular economy that we're actually giving back to the communities that are

actually growing our fruits and giving those kids more of a future as

well. Our packaging is now like 50% post consumer

recycled plastic. We're on that journey of trying towards

sustainability and packaging, which a lot of companies are on and is very hard.

But the steps that we can take in the intermediary is always super

important to do kind of the absolute best that we can there. So,

yeah, we're always just trying to be kind of as sustainable, as healthy,

but really delivering on snacking enjoyment.

We've done quite a lot of flipping and flapping as we've kind of developed the

brand of going, what are our core values? What is it that we really want

to stand for? And I think that we are a really

healthy product. We are single ingredients. There's nothing but the fruit in the bag.

Every bag is one of your five a day, high in fiber and all of

those great nutritional benefits. But I think what's key and

core to us is we just want snacking to be fun and exciting

and satisfy those cravings, because that was always what

drove us. We all have that mid morning, mid

afternoon slump where you kind of want to have a little bit of

something sweet or crunchy or chewy to kind of get you through

the rest of the day. And I think that

snacking provides you a little bit of like a soulful moment

to yourself, whether you're doing something or busy. But giving that

little bit of satisfaction, giving that little moment to yourself, bit of enjoyment,

I think, is something that we want to celebrate. Too often

people talk around snacks and they talk about being guilt free. And we

just honestly hate that term because why do we have to feel that

snacking should be guilty? Why can't snacking be celebrated and be

fun and be enjoyable and be that great moment?

Feeding your body, feeding your mind, mental health is really

important. And giving yourself that kind of satisfaction, not feeling guilt the whole

time for things that we do in life. And that's really just

what we want to be. We want to be fun, we want to be enjoyable

and still, then just snacks made the right way. Well, thank you

for that. And I have to say, I think it's great how well

and how easily you can articulate who you are and what you're about.

And I do honestly think that that comes across with your products,

all of that. When you look at your branding, your packaging, you definitely get that.

So I think that's brilliant. Thank you. It's taken a bit of

flipping and flapping. I'll be honest, as with anyone is starting

another business or a product, you will have lots of moments where you

think about different directions and you potentially move in a slightly different way.

And I think what's really important is really remembering why you started the business,

what your values are, what's important to you. Because I

think that becomes translatable, and I think that also becomes

a clear reason for other people to want to engage

that idea that we used to eat so many

artificial sweet snacks. I think there are a lot of people out there that do

that, enjoy those kind of sweet based snacks,

sugary packets. And I think that delivering something

that can give you all of that satisfaction without the downsides worked

for us. So it's something that we want to share to others. Yeah. Thank you.

And I think also what I'm taking as well is that there's a lot to

be said for being genuine. Because I think you can tell when

someone is being genuine about their product, the passion for their product,

why they create it. There's something that it makes it a lot easier to resonate

with a brand. So you sort of talking about the fact that

you used to eat anything in the Tesco snack aisle or whatever, like

you say, people can relate to that. Whereas I think sometimes it

can be tempting to think we have to hide those parts of ourselves or

some of the things like that. If it feels like we have to put up

this front or talk about just focus on the

healthy side of the products. But I really like the fact that you talk about

how yours are fun as well, and also about your own experiences, because I do

genuinely think it makes for a more interesting story and it helps customers to

relate as well. Absolutely. I really appreciate that that

comes across. I think we always say we are

brimming in terms of our passion for snacking and so on, as opposed to

being necessarily passionate about business per se. And we really

hope that kind of does come across. But it is something that I think,

particularly in dried fruit, it's important that I think we are that transparent

and we are that honest about it, because not all dried fruit is made

equally. There's a lot of products out there that have

artificial preservatives, they have added sugars. There's a lot

of products that will say 100% fruit, 100% natural. You look on the back, and

it's purees, it's pulps, it's added natural

sweeteners. And those things are really not

good for you. There is this whole sugar debate on at the moment, which I

think that's a whole separate topic that would take up a whole nother podcast episode

in a way. But it's really important that consumers are more wary around

what actually they're putting in their body, what is truly natural, what is

healthy, and looking at the ingredients list, and it's why we've been very clear

from the start as well, that we will only ever be single ingredients. We will

never add any sugars, any concentrates, any pulps, any

preservatives into our products, because for us, we're celebrating

Mother Nature's candy. And I don't think you can do better than that. So I

think the idea of trying to add in all these additives as a way of

kind of either increasing profit margins or trying to make your product seem

more appealing, I think is really the wrong direction. I think consumers are becoming very

savvy to that. So ensuring that we're basically being as clear and as transparent,

as honest as possible, and we stand up and

say we are not an alternative to fresh fruit. Absolutely. Please go and eat an

apple instead of us. What you should eat our products instead of

is packets of crisps, packets of sweets, chocolate bars, biscuits,

all of those ultra processed, unhealthy snacks. Yeah. Thank

you. And I was thinking this exactly the same as you when you were talking

that I think consumers are getting more savvy. I mean, I know if I pick

up anything in the supermarket, the first thing I do is flip it to the

back and see what ingredients are in there. And I think a lot more people

are doing that now. And I think it comes back again to, I was talking

about sort of consumers having trust in you, because

I've definitely looked at products that, as you say, say, 100% fruit, and then you

turn it over and then there's a whole list of additives. And I feel

like to me, I'm put off by that now because I'm

like, well, it's not quite what you said it was,

and I wouldn't have any loyalty to that brand. Whereas I think that

brands that can sort of deliver on what they promise, I think it's much easier

for customers to be loyal to because you know what you're getting.

Absolutely. And that's exactly what we're trying to do,

being clear and honest and upfront about what is in your products. I think is

one of the most important things at the moment. There was already a health

trend, but I think Covid has definitely also helped accelerate that. And people

are massively conscious about what they're putting into their

bodies. There's so much research and so

on, things that are coming out. People follow Tim Spector and the Zoe

diet and all of these kind of things that are happening at the know as

the advances in understanding nutrition, how our

body reacts to different ingredients, different products,

is really taking big, big leaps forward. And I think

that's something that we are wanting to be clear about as

much. I said that we are a fun snack, and that was always our focus

on being that fun side. The way we focus on

staying healthy is trying to stay as close to nature as possible. We aren't

food scientists. We aren't coming at this from a very overly technical perspective,

but we've learned a lot along the way. And I think that consumers understand

that when you open one of our packs and you take out a slice of

dragon fruit, it is a whole slice of dragon fruit. You can see exactly

what fruit that came from. If you look at a lot of these other fruit

based snacks or fruit products, you take them out and they're reformed into a

bar, into certain shapes or into certain things like that. And sometimes I even have

it, you eat it and you go, what fruit actually is that? And you're trying

to figure out, as soon as you see that, people

realize this isn't really healthy, this isn't close to nature,

this isn't a whole fruit. Right? This has been pureed, pulked,

blended, which has the whole issue about creating free sugars and making it actually truly

unhealthy. And for us consumers,

we don't want consumers to have to always flip to the back of the pack

and always have to read the ingredients as much. I think it's an important thing

they do. We want to be easily reliable

where people can just look at our product and go, I can see that is

fruit that really looks like fruit to me, just simply dried and not this

idea of that. You're looking at products that look like other things but are telling

you that they're fruit. Yeah, that makes absolute sense.

And I'd like to pivot slightly, if that's okay, to talk about getting

stocks in retailers, because I know that's something that you've been able to do,

but I guess to kind of keep it on what we're talking about.

I'm just really curious as to how much of the sort of the things we're

talking about. So single ingredient, the differences

in your products, how much of that plays into being able to get stocked,

if that makes sense. Is that a part of your pitch? Is that something that

retailers are interested in? Absolutely.

I think that the reason we've had a bit of success in getting into retail,

because it is a very tough route and thing to do

is because of that initial assumption that we had at the very start, that there

is a bit of a gap in the market here. I think us consumers are

trying to eat healthier products. There aren't many dried fruit brands out there, and particularly,

as we say, about those truly healthy dried fruit products. So

absolutely, that is quite important. There's a whole thing in retail

called HFSS legislation, which is high fat salt sugars,

which essentially means retailers can't do certain promotions on products

that would have too much fat, salt or sugar in it. They can't put them

near the checkout. This is something that's been delayed by the government

implementing some of them, but it's things that are happening because of consumer

preferences. So there is a huge amount where people are looking to

say, suddenly I look at my snacks range and 90% of them

are ultra processed, really unhealthy, and I don't have enough

products that are catering for this growing movement of healthy snacking. So

that's something that I think we've been quite fortunate in, that retailers have been looking

to grow that category and expand the kind of offerings within that

range, which I think has worked kind of very fortunately well for us.

But that really comes about from that consumer preferences and the retailers are then kind

of following that consumer trend. That's really interesting. And

how interested, I'm curious on this, how interested are

retailers in sort of what makes your brand

different? So the story about your brand or are they

more interested in products? I'm just curious. Yeah, I

think really when it comes to retail, it's one of those things. There's no hard

and fast rules. It's a little bit of everything. And also some retailers are

different to others. So definitely it's really important, I think,

having that brand story, having a reason behind the product

and solving a specific problem. When people are looking

to bring out another packet of crisps, for example, they'd look for one

that isn't just exactly replicating a brand that they would already stock, because then

they would just be competing against each other. So having products that are

offering different points of different unique selling points

or offering different benefits, different experiences to the

customer, that I think is really important for a retailer to understand

why is your product different to what I already have on my shelves, and why

is that difference something that customers are actually looking for? But that can be anything.

That can be, as we talked about, the textures, the different fruit varieties,

it can be the brand story, it can be the packaging, it can be the

sustainability angle. All of these are viable reasons why

consumers want to identify with different brands. And I think it's just really important

that whatever your positioning is in the market as a product or a new

brand, you understand why would a consumer want your

product and go in on that and really ensure that that is

something that you can demonstrate, you can explain, you can

articulate on your packaging, perhaps, and that retailers will be

able to understand this is why you are different to what else is out there.

Yeah. Thank you. Because I remember being told by a previous podcast guest

that essentially if a retailer takes on your product, they're having

to drop someone else because they only have so much space on the shelf. Now,

I don't know whether that is still the case because this was a number of

years ago, but it does make sense to me that you have to almost fight

for your place to be there because it's not like you're

going to someone who's got empty shelves that needs filling up. They

either presumably do need to stop stocking someone else, or

they need to make space for you and they need to have room. I mean,

they hold all the cards, don't they, ultimately? So I guess you do have to

have a really compelling reason as to why they would want to stock your

products. Absolutely. It is a case that you're

right that most retailers have limited shelf and it will be some way of a

one in, one out. It depends. We were in a

category that was growing. So I think for us it was, instead of

being a one in, one out, put one dried fruit product in, kick another dried

fruit one out, they were looking more saying, we need to grow the healthy snacks

category, so we're actually kicking out some of the unhealthier products, perhaps,

and that's how kind of retailers, I guess, work and where they need to understand

the market and understand what their customers are really looking for. And of course, then

all retailers are different in that what they're specifically offering

to their customers. So you have to think about it from that

perspective and you have to be, I think, able to

articulate to a retailer then why your product should be new and on the

shelf, realizing that it's not just, oh, it's nice or

customers like me. You exactly have to articulate that point of difference of saying why

it's really better than other products and why customers

would really pick you up instead of somebody else. Thank you.

And on the subject of retailers, do tell us which retailers you're stocked in for

anyone who wants to go and pick up a pack today. Absolutely. Thank you.

So we're listed online with a cardo, we're in

stores with Planet organic in Harrods, in

Selfridges. We're listed online as well with Holland and

Barrett. We're working on getting our way into Holland and Barrett stores, but Holland and

Barrett have actually launched their whole own range of crunchy fruit and freeze

dried fruit chips as well. And we're

also enlisted in a number of small kind of independent retailers. We're

online on Amazon and then also direct online on our website as well.

Soulfruit co. Uk. Amazing. Thank you. And I'm going to ask you a few questions

about Amazon in a moment. But just last question I have on

getting stocked in retailers. So you're in some really big name stores

and online retailers. Is that a case, if you're thinking about

getting stocked, of approaching them proactively? Is that how it tends to

work? Yeah, absolutely. Buyers are

notoriously difficult. They have a million and one things to do

when you've got to imagine if a supermarket shelves, you think how many products are

on there. You've got a category buyer. That might be, for example, the snacking

buyer. Think how many different snack products and brands they have to look after, let

alone introducing new products. So they are hard to get a hold

of. But yes, you need to kind of be persistent and persevere

with it. There's a couple of organizations out

there that can help you with trying to approach them. So we've done a few

with bread and jam, for example. They're fantastic product

guru as well. They do some kind of like online lightning pictures, or they

do buyer days, which are relatively inexpensive way

for brands to try and meet buyers. Trade shows are quite expensive

to do, so it's kind of a stepping stone towards doing those.

But it really is a case of trying being

persistent because you may email them three times over the

space of three months and never hear something back, and then three months later

happens to be the time that they're actually doing their range review and they're then

going to get back in contact with you. But it's hard for you to know

always the timing that's going to be right for them and also they're never normally

going to give you all of that information by telling you when they're range review

what they're looking for, those specific things. So you just do need to be

a bit persistent, not overly so. I

wouldn't recommend bombarding a buyer but dropping them notes just to let them

know this is what we're doing, this is an interesting development, this is a

feedback we're hearing or this is a reason why our product is doing well is

good. Just to give them those kind of nudges in the right direction. That's really

helpful. Thank you. I had a feeling you were going to say something like that

because I do know from speaking to other guests that getting stocked can

be hard work. But it sounds like if you have a bit of a plan

and you just keep working at it, then you can definitely get some

success. Absolutely. It really is.

I'm being an engineering background. I love to have a process and

know that there's a tangible result at the end. So it's something I found difficult.

But it is that case of know you've got to keep kind of plugging away.

That's great. Thank you. So let's very briefly, if you don't mind, just

touch a little bit on your Amazon experience, because I know you've been on

Amazon for a little while now and I guess the main thing I'd love to

know is that anything that you've learned from that experience that you think would be

useful for others. Yeah, we have been on Amazon

for quite a while. I admit it's been up and down in terms of how

we've been on there, partly because as a business we've had challenges around getting enough

product and stock into the country and so on, which was always

challenging. I think Amazon, it's an amazing platform and environment

ecosystem to kind of have your product. I mean, most people don't think of

Amazon when it comes to food products or I didn't before starting this.

But actually there is a huge amount of food and people do buy

snacks and so on kind of online from there. So I think it's a

really great place to have any kind of food based product, actually.

It is something that you do need to work at as well. It is something

that isn't just a case of simply set up, that's it done and let it

go. You do need to think quite a bit around your product

imagery about your product listing. What are the right keywords that you're kind of

including in there, what other brands are in your space and

therefore what keywords are they targeting, should you be doing similar ones or should you

be doing slightly different ones that are your own niche? There is quite a

lot of research and kind of planning that can go into that which you

helped us out with massively. We were very kind of novice

when it came into this, but it is something that I think

is great, great doors to open. So I would say

it's something that people need to really spend some time thinking about

trying to understand your brand, understand your consumers,

understand what they're looking for, what you're offering, and really have a clear

picture of that in mind. So, you know, these are the words that I'm going

to focus on. These are the images that I'm going to use. This is

how for us, for example, we show the

pack of what they look like. It's brightly colored, packs look

appealing. But then actually it's really important to show also images of

what does the fresh fruit look like? Because a lot of people don't know what

a dragon fruit is. For example, what does the pieces of the dried fruit look

like? Because you don't want this mystery bag that you're opening, that you don't really

know what actually is inside. Can you have some pictures of

people consuming the product, showing how it could be used for

ours, for example, they can be a snack, but you can also use them as

like a topper on yogurt, on granola, on home baking and so on

like that. So how can you demonstrate different use cases as well within your

imagery? I'm also massively a believer. An

image speaks a thousand words getting some of

those main images right. And if I were to look at another product on Amazon,

I'm thinking about buying. The first thing I do is scroll through all the images

because it's the easiest way for me to try and understand the product. And is

this right for me? So I think there's a lot of things that can be

done by just really cleverly thinking about your product, your position

and how you can showcase that best. With, firstly, I think the images, but then

also with those text, those keywords, the product descriptions.

Thank you so much. And you know what, I don't think I could have said

that better myself. And it's really nice to hear you say that because it's

something that I talk about lots on this podcast is the fact that it's

work. Because there was once upon a time, it was a long time ago now,

you could put something on Amazon and sort

know maybe not your best effort and you would still sell

products because it was relatively new and there wasn't a lot of competition.

But unfortunately, it's just not that I say unfortunately. I think

it's probably a good thing because I feel like everyone has to sort of up

their game a little bit. Everyone has to make more of an effort to sell

their products, which of course is what it's about. And then, as you say, I

think the rewards are there, but it does take a bit of work

and doesn't happen overnight. So it's really good for you to share all of that.

And. Yeah, completely agree with everything because, I mean, at the end of the day,

it's a big search engine if you want. Absolutely. And I think that

the other key thing that is really important is with Amazon prime.

So us being a snack, we're typically an impulse

purchase where you buy it because you're hungry now and you want to eat it.

So the idea of often when you buy something online and you have to wait

three, four, five days for it to get delivered is not always the best when

it comes to snacks. But with Amazon prime, the fact you can buy it and

the next morning it will be there is really helpful, I think, for kind of

the food and the kind of snack business on Amazon and why I

think it actually is a really great place to be. I think the one other

element that I would mention in there as well is that we started off flipping

between fulfilling ourselves and working with Amazon FBA.

Amazon FBA just takes a lot of hassle off your side. And I think as

a small business you have a million and one things to do and never enough

time in the day to do it where you can find services that just make

your life easier, that's worth its weight in gold. So I think it's one of

those things. If people are looking at being like, oh, do I really want to

do it? It might have slightly higher cost, this and that. I think there's a

huge amount to be said of just make your life easier. I completely

agree. And I know that for some food businesses in particular, people

can worry and think, oh, can I send food into? And yeah, absolutely, you can.

With a few exceptions, you can send food products into

Amazon and of course you have to think about expiry dates and things

like that. But actually you don't have to be sending in thousands of

units. You can send in, you can send in the tent. I mean, we've spoken

about this. You can send it in the tent. You don't have to be sending

in loads of stock and worried that it's all tied up. It's much more flexible

than people imagine. And of course, if you have any questions on this, then you

can always just ask me as well. So thank you

so much for everything you've shared, Daniel. I've really loved hearing more

about your story. Obviously I knew some of it, but hearing sort of the behind

the scenes, as it were, is so interesting. And as I said earlier,

inspiring as well. And I have one final question, which

is, what would your number one piece of advice be for other product creators?

I think my number one piece of advice would come back to that point around

passion. I think passion is

substitutable. Probably not a word, but let's roll with it.

I think that you'd be amazed at how much the little

practical hurdles that people think of are big obstacles

are easy enough to overcome. I think the thing that's hard to

really replicate is a real passion and a real desire to

want to do something or be passionate about a space. So if

it's something that's been on your mind, it's something that you've thought about, has been

there, go for it. You'll be amazed at how much all the things that you

think at the start are massive obstacles and hurdles are actually

quite easily surmountable. Thank you so much. And

as I said earlier, you are a great example of that. Thank you. Thank you

so much. Vicki. No, really, really enjoyed talking to you and thank you so much

for having me on. Thank you. Thank

you so much for listening. Right to the end of this episode, do remember that

you can get the fullback catalogue and lots of free resources on my website,

vickyweinberg.com. Please do remember to rate and review this

episode if you've enjoyed it and also share it with a friend who you think

might find it useful. Thank you again and see you next week.

Close.