Creating your own journal to sell – Mark Morton – Journalise

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:01

Welcome to the bring your product idea to life podcast. This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products or if you'd like to create your own product to sell. I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly practical advice as well as inspirational stories from small businesses. Let's get started. Hi, today on the podcast, I'm speaking to Mark Morton. Mark is the founder of Journalise, which provides journals for mental health and wellness self care, as well as information on all aspects of mental health and wellness through his website and blog content. Mark's goal is to normalize mental health self care and ensure everyone understands and can access the appropriate tools and support whenever needed. Mark lives in the leafy London suburb of Bromley with his family, where they enjoy looking after their house, gardening and venturing out to enjoy the beautiful country countryside and maybe a nice coffee and cake. I'm definitely with you on that, Mark. So Mark and I had a really great conversation. Mark is really honest about, um, his own mental health and what led him to create his journals. Um, we spoke about how we went through the product, the process of designing and actually producing the journals and as well as some of the digital products that he offers alongside it, which personally I thought was super smart. Um, so I think there's lots to learn from this episode and I really hope you enjoy hearing from Mark. So hi Mark, thank you so much for being here.

Mark Morton: 00:01:29

Hi Vicki, great to be with you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:32

So can we start with you, please give an introduction to yourself, your business and your product, please.

Mark Morton: 00:01:36

Sure. So yeah, Mark Morton. Um, I'm based around South East London. Kent borders, um, live there most of my life, but, uh, yeah, still, still there and living with my wife and my, my eight year old son. Um, and my business called Journalise, um, and I founded that with the aim to support people with, with mental health or wellness issues. Um, primarily our products are journals and particularly a guided journal that helps people get into the idea of journaling and supports them through that understanding of what's going on with themselves and what they can do to support their mental health and their wellness. But also I want to see us just, a bit bigger than that, in that it's about the whole support system, getting people to understand what's available, getting people to understand that it's something they can do something about. They don't have to hide behind walls. They don't have to bottle it all up. There are support networks out there and tools and the like that they can use.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:02:41

That's brilliant. And do you, so is that the kind of information that's in this journal? Talk us through a little bit of what's, what the journals consist of, if that's okay.

Mark Morton: 00:02:49

Yeah, of course. Um, so I have three, three journals in, in, in the product range, but the, the, the sort of core journal is this guided journal. So each day, well, firstly, there's this, what we call a check in. So each day it's getting you to check in on how you're feeling, do a bit of gratitude, um, plan your sort of key, um, tasks for the day, um, and review that at the end of the day. So that, that idea of just what's your day going to be up to and how have you, how have you done? But then the, the other part of that is, you know, rather than just having a blank sheet of paper, go off and journal, it, it's um, that's really hard to do for, particularly for someone that's new to it, new to journaling. So I have a prompt each day that um, asks the individual to think about something. Um, and that starts at quite high level things like your goals, things about rating, how you're feeling in particular areas and so on. Then starts to work through into more deeper pieces to try and understand your background, some of the things that maybe have happened to you, the way you react to things, and therefore to sort of understand what's going on with yourself and the triggers that perhaps you have, your sort of needs and requirements and how you can therefore deal with those and find ways of coping with them.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:04:10

Yeah, that's brilliant. I say, it sounds like there's a lot about self awareness in there as well. And kind of learning a bit about yourself as well as how to, well, when I say help yourself, I mean that in a, you know, in a very broad sense. Um, but sometimes it's, so I think sometimes we can be so busy. We don't even realize what's going on, or we don't realize what, what it is that's contributing to our stress or overload, or maybe we don't even realize we're feeling like that until we take a step back and go, oh, okay. Um, I'm not feeling great at the moment.

Mark Morton: 00:04:42

No, you're absolutely right. Um, and I think that it's that awareness thing is, is a lot of the key to it. As you said, it's not necessarily being aware of what has caused the way you're feeling and it, because it can be a long time ago, you know, when it was with me, you know, it can, it can take several years to sort of get around to doing something about this. Um, and so you may not even realize that something way back in your past that has caused these feelings to occur, and that's the sort of thing that obviously a therapist can help you with. But if you don't feel up to taking that, it's quite a big step to take for a lot of people. Then these sorts of tools like journaling can help you to deal with that yourself. You know, the self care idea, um, and, and being able to approach that in your own way and at your own pace, basically.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:05:32

Yeah, that's really good. And do you mind telling us a little bit about what inspired you to create the journals Mark?

Mark Morton: 00:05:38

Hmm. I mean, it's, um, it, it, it comes off stems from basically my, my school days. Um, you know, I had a lot of bullying when I was at school, you know, still, I can still, you know, it does, um, upset me a bit still. Um, but ultimately, you know, that, that, um, drove me to a lot of, um, self confidence, I guess, issues, um, and low self esteem. And ultimately to, to sort of stress and anxiety, um, which I guess sort of ebbs and flows. Um, you know, it took me a long way, a, a long time to come to, to terms with that. Um, and probably a, a year or two before the pandemic. So it's probably about 2018 or so, I guess. Um, 2019, something like that. I, I. sort of finally started to come to terms with that to look for, look for things to do. Um, so I did managed to get some therapy, which was, which was great, but also at the same time, I was looking for other tools that I could use and journaling was, was one of those tools.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:06:49

That's brilliant. And not so much what happened to you, of course, I'm really sorry to hear about, um, you know, the events that sort of led up to you deciding to create your journals, um, but it's really inspiring that you took your experience and then went to create a product to help other people. And I'm sure it's helping you as well. I'm sure I'm right in saying you probably use your own journals now that you have them. Um, and am I right in saying that I know that your journals are for everyone, but there is a bit of a focus on men in particular. They just certainly have a bit of a more masculine appearance, I guess, than some of the journals that you see online.

Mark Morton: 00:07:27

Yeah, exactly. You know, I think it's quite obvious if you do any research online that there is limited stuff aimed at men specifically. Um, and particularly with journaling, I think women are quite good at journaling generally anyway. It's something that a lot of women do do. Um, it's also, you know, a lot of the products tend to be um, um, more feminine looking, let's say, um, in things like, you know, the, the, the colour scheme or the styling or, or whatever. Um, and obviously, you know, from my experience being a man myself and, and with that sort of knowledge that men are not great at dealing with these sorts of things and don't have as much support, don't perceive to have as much support. It was something I therefore wanted to push. Um, so the content is gender agnostic. It, it doesn't matter, um, on what gender you are. Um, but the, the styling is probably a bit more masculine, um, side to it, um, in the, in the sort of look and the feel, um, but can also be, be termed as quite professional looking, um, with the, the, the sort of the colour scheme and the designing of it.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:08:38

Yeah. I think they look really smart. I think they, they, they don't look, um, overly masculine, but then as you say, a lot of journals you see are overtly feminine, if you know what I mean, when you look at the colours and the designs. And, um, I think it's really, I think that's really good because I can imagine some men, not all, but there will be some men who will be put off by picking up a journal if they felt that actually this isn't for me, this is aimed at women. And I know as you say that your journals will work equally well for both genders, but I think lots of journals can just put people off, put men off perhaps, or, and some women I assume as well, just by looking at them. And it just feels like this isn't for me.

Mark Morton: 00:09:19

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I guess it's not just, you know, okay, a man wandering around with a pink journal, let's say to be really stereotypical about this, but I think it's also the fact that it's not overtly a journal and mental health thing. It just looks like a notebook from the outside, a sort of professional, um, smart sort of notebook that you, you are carrying around to, to write notes in. So it, it, it sort of helps to get over almost that, that stigma as well, I think.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:09:50

Yeah, I, I know what you mean. Because I think while men's mental health is something that's been talked about a bit more now than it was, I think, I don't know, 10 years ago, five years ago, even. I think there still is a bit of a stigma around mental health for men and women isn't there and not everyone is open about talking about any problems or anything they're doing for self care. Um, yeah, how have you found that actually, when you've been talking about your products, have you, how has that played into how you market and promote your products?

Mark Morton: 00:10:22

Yeah, I mean, I tend to market slightly more, you know, that these are for men. Um, because obviously that's, I guess, my niche in some ways, um, I, you know, trying to stress that, you know, this is a way for you to express your emotions, to think about these things, um, that it's okay to do so, that you, you know, you don't have to bottle it all up, you don't have to have that macho image, um, I mean, in terms of the flip side of that, uh, I have seen some sort of comments where I get, you know, that sort of, well, why would you, or, you know, the sort of, the typical comment you get these days of Snowflake, you know, that is, that's again, the opposite side of the, the, the macho thing. It's like, well, why would I want to talk about this? And, but I think the whole, as you say, the conversation's starting to change over the last few years, you know, we're seeing a lot of, um, sort of celebrities, let's say, you know, Rugby stars, for example, even coming out and talking about their mental health and how they've been affected by this stuff. So that, it particularly is really going to help. If someone like a big macho rugby star is saying, you know, that they've got mental health issues, that is going to show to, to other men and that it's okay to, to admit to this. It's, it's not wrong to, it's not anti man as such to, to, um, to, to, to deal with this and talk about it.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:52

Yeah, absolutely. And I think as you were saying earlier that it's not the same as for example, counselling, but counselling just isn't always accessible to people, even if it's something they think might be good or that might be needed. Because I think, um, I'm assuming that on the NHS, they're probably very long list as there are of everything at the moment and not everyone can obviously, has the option of just getting started sort of exploring what's, what's going on with yourself and that, I think that's really, really good as well for anyone who isn't sure whether, you know, they need counselling, want counselling, I think a little bit of self exploration just might be a nice sort of gentle starting point, I guess.

Mark Morton: 00:12:34

Yeah, exactly. I think that's, the access is, is difficult. I was very lucky in that I had private healthcare, you know, through, through my work. Um, so you can self refer, so that makes it really easy to access and to talk to somebody. Um, but yeah, NHS, it's a lot harder, big waiting list. So obviously, you know, that's the first hurdle. Um, so having tools like this that are available and again, helping people get started easily. So that's the idea with, with the journal, that, that idea of the guided piece, as I said at the beginning, it's, it's really hard to just open a blank sheet of paper and start writing about stuff and to write something that's relevant and that is going to help you on that, that mental health and wellness sort of state. Um, so having a tool that will guide you and help you with, with these sort of exercises and techniques and so on is, is going to be a really good way to start.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:13:31

Yeah, and this might be a really stupid question, but I assume that your journals aren't, um, they can be started at any point, so you don't have to start it on the 1st of January and finish on the 31st of December. They designed it so you can pick one up today and just get going.

Mark Morton: 00:13:47

Yeah, yeah, of course. Uh, you know, I think with journaling, that's, that's one piece, obviously you can start anytime. So everything is undated. So the daily check in, it's got a space to put in the date, but it obviously doesn't have to be any particular day, but also, and I stress this at the introduction to the journal in the actual journal itself is, you know, it's great if you can do it every day, but you don't have to, you know, it's, it's get a habit, do it regularly. But if you can't face it on a particular day, fine, if you can only do it three or four times a week, fine, it's, it's what works for you and that's really important because if it becomes a burden, you're not going to do it.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:14:28

That's such a good point. And what you then don't want is to sort of beat yourself up because, you know, I can't even keep up with my journaling or, you know, you don't want to give yourself something else to, to worry about. It sounds like you've put so much thought into these journals, Mark. So talk us through from when you were inspired to actually create the journal, talk us through how you actually went from there to having, you know, to having a finished product, because, um, I'm assuming it's no easy task to sort of design and sort of produce journals of the quality that yours are.

Mark Morton: 00:15:03

Yeah. And it was quite a long journey, I guess, partly because other things got in the way, as they do with life, you know, and it was a lot of it was over the COVID period. Um, so obviously there was a lot of stuff going on at that time that, um, said it was sort of before that, that I, I started my journey, um, you know, had some therapy. I was also doing research into other tools. Journaling, meditation, all these sorts of things. Um, and I really struggled with journaling. It's, as I say, not easy to start, etc. So I tried it a few times and didn't really get anywhere. But then I was doing more research and there are a few products around that have some sort of guides or prompts and so on. Um, but I didn't feel that they were really approaching it from a pure mental health sort of aspect, um, and utilizing things like, um, the, the CBT techniques, for example, um, or, or some of those other techniques that a lot of therapists might use in their practice. So, um, I spent a lot of time obviously reading various books, researching some of those techniques, doing a lot of internet research and sort of pulling together the themes and the topics that I wanted to include in the journal. Um, and alongside that, bringing in, well, what are those other techniques you can use outside of journaling? So it's important, I think, to have that toolbox of stuff that you can use. You need, you need to have a few things that you can turn to or, um, so I include things like breathing exercises. I talk about things like, um, gratitude, um, meditation, those sorts of things. So it's sort of introducing these topics for then people to go away and do a bit more research if it's something that they, they feel will work for them. Um, so it's like pulling all of that together. Um, and then basically put all the topics on post it notes and stuck them all over my wall, um, and started to try and put them in, so at least there was a bit of a flow as well, you know, it's important that you don't just jump straight in with something really deep. Let's, let's start off with those fairly high level, um, sort of topics. And then work through those as you go through that journey. And of course, so they are related things that there's a bit of a flow. So I of course went through various iterations of that over quite a long period of time. Um, and then yeah, started creating that in, in one of the publishing software tools, fairly computer literate. So that was fairly easy for me to pick up thankfully, but yeah, I spent a lot of time then designing it in, in, in one of those tools. Um, and then when I was happy with that. Found a, a custom journal printer. Um, that I also, one that I had the sort, the, the styling and the, the, the faux leather, um, fronts that I have on the covers that I have on the journal. Those sorts of things that, you know, they had the, the quality and the, the styling that that I wanted for the product. And yeah, that's sort of roughly the start to end of how it went about.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:18:13

That's brilliant. Thank you for explaining all of that. I'm so impressed that you designed it yourself because I didn't know that. And I would have asumed just looking at them, that you'd have them, that you'd have them designed because as you've, sort of quality with the, you know, the leather cover and the quality of the print and everything. So yeah, I'm very impressed by that. And, and how easy was it to find someone that could print them, you know, to the quality that you were looking for?

Mark Morton: 00:18:43

Yeah, the, um, It took a while because a lot of the, a lot of the companies do the more regular book styling, whereas I wanted something quite specific. So I only found one UK supplier. Um, since then I've had a couple, obviously there's, there's, um, for example, you know, Chinese publishers and the like that can help with that as well, uh, or manufacturers. Um, so, you know, at least I've got other avenues now open. Um, but it's for the sort of the styling and the quality that it's relatively, um, few suppliers that do that.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:19:21

It was great that you were able to find someone and to find someone in the UK as well is also a huge plush, I guess, especially as if, you know, pre pandemic or post pandemic actually, that's what I'm trying to say. Um, obviously getting things manufactured abroad was very tricky for quite a long time. And that's me putting it mildly. So.

Mark Morton: 00:19:39

Yeah, I mean, obviously that, you know, that It's, it's nice having that, that UK based supplier, but the issue with that of course is costs, you know, that does drive up my cost quite significantly and therefore, you know, passing that on to, to the end user. So I think unfortunately it does probably mean longer term going with somewhere like a Chinese supplier, but at least I've got that backup as you say, if something else occurs like a pandemic, you need somebody that's more local and is able to still supply that stuff.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:20:09

Yeah, absolutely. And, um, the other thing I wanted to touch on, if that's okay, is I noticed when I was going through your website, sort of in preparing for us to talk today, that you also sell some digital products. So I wondered if you wanted to tell us a little bit about, first of all, talk us through, um, what those are and then a bit about how they came about, because I think I mentioned to you, I actually think that it's a really, it's a really smart idea. So, um, do you want to just tell us a little bit more about them?

Mark Morton: 00:20:34

Yeah. Um, so the, there's printed and digital versions. Um, I call them tasters. It's just the first three weeks. So there's three separate booklets, um, for week one, two and three of the, of the guided journal. So it allows people to, for a, a, small entry price, just have a go at it, see what the journal's about, see what the content is, see if it works for you. Um, you know, seeing a premium product at a certain price point, obviously for some people it's going to turn them off, whereas if there's that low entry, low risk sort of option, that's there. Um, and again, having it in the two formats, personally, I think writing, handwriting is really good. Um, I think that's, that's a really good way to connect, to think more about what you're, what you're writing down, and understand what you're writing and so on. Um, but I think obviously it's important in this day and age to have the digital option as well. And of course you can always print that out and write still on it, but you've still got the option to have that on on the computer and type over if you want as well. So it gives people that option. It gives easy access as soon as you've taken that off the site, you can just download that. And do what you want with it. Um, and actually, I also, you know, if you visit the website, if you sign up to the newsletter, I offer the first sort of week of the download available to people that sign up to the newsletter. So they get a chance to have a good go at it. Have a try of it. And then of course they can go on to the full journal if they want to.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:22:16

Yeah. As I said, I do think that's, that's a really great idea. Um, and because I guess because your product is sold online at the moment, it's really hard for people, you know, when you're, you're picking up, if you're buying a journal in a, in a store, you can sort of open it up, you can flick through the pages, you can get a sense, but obviously online it's a lot harder to do. So I, I think it's really, really clever to give people a taste of what's inside, what sort of things they might be journaling about and how the process works. Um, yeah, I've never seen a, a journal that does that and I I was really impressed by that.

Mark Morton: 00:22:52

No, thanks. Yeah. Um, and actually I hadn't really, you sort of thought of that point as well. Maybe I did subconsciously, but yeah, the part of the, the experience is the whole, the tactile feeling and, you know, seeing what's in it and, and, and so on. And you of course don't get that through a web shop. So that, that is the sort of downside of that, that online purchase or web experience. So having that, as you say, having that quick grab of a download and give it a try and see what it's about is really important.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:22

And what sort of feedback are you getting from that, from, from customers? Are they liking the fact that they can try before they almost try before they buy almost?

Mark Morton: 00:23:29

Yeah. Um, well I'm certainly getting, getting, um, clickthroughs or, or whatever downloads, um, coming from that. Um, so yeah, it, it's, it's obviously resonating with, with some people. Definitely.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:43

I think, as we were saying earlier, for people who, that are maybe journaling's really new to them, they're not sure what to expect. So I think it is just really nice to be able to just give it a go and say it does this work for me before committing to buying the full journal, because as you say, it is really high quality, but therefore the price reflects that. And so it is maybe a bit, a bigger leap if you're not really sure, okay, what is journaling and what do I do?

Mark Morton: 00:24:07

Yes. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Um, you know, and I, I try and support that a bit as well, you know, in my blog, I've got a few guides, which then, of course, anybody can access regardless of whether they bought the journal so they can see it, get some idea of, you know, what's in there, what the content is and what they might be asked effectively to do, or, you know, what they can, what they can expect from the experience. So hopefully that that supports it as well, I think.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:24:36

Yeah, I think it's great that you're able to offer that kind of information and as I say, I think that's maybe what makes one of the things that makes your journals unique is that you're there behind them, if that makes sense. You know, to, to actually talk, to talk about them sometimes when you buy, um, what's that similar product, you know, from Amazon or whatever, you don't really know any, the background and it can, it's not quite this, I think it must be quite nice perhaps for your customers to know that there's a person behind them.

Mark Morton: 00:25:08

Yeah, yeah, I hope so. You know, it's, that's why I put that information on the website, a bit about me, a bit about my background and why, why I did this, you know, as I say, not always something I particularly like to talk about and necessarily in public about my experiences, but I think it's really important that people realize that's why it's there and that there's a real person behind this and a reason why I created these journals.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:25:33

I think so too, and I think it is hard sometimes to put your face out there and your story out there, especially as your story is personal and also it's maybe not something that you want to think about or talk about a lot. So I think it's first of all quite brave for you to do that. Um, but hopefully I think it will really help your customers to connect with you.

Mark Morton: 00:25:54

Yeah. And it's, it's also that, that thing about helping other men understand they can talk about it, you know, don't be embarrassed. It's like, yeah, you may feel embarrassed about it, but other people are going through the same thing. Other people have dealt with this. Um, so, so you can to admit. I'll admit to it. But, um, you know, you can find help out there. You are worthy of that help, those sorts of messages. It hopefully supports those as well.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:26:24

I think so. And as you say, it's just really, it is good to know whatever the sort of circumstance or situation is, it's always good to know that you're not alone and you're not the first. I think that's always really reassuring. Um. Well, thank you so much Mark for everything you shared. I have one final question if that's okay before we finish off, which is what is your number one piece of advice for other product creators?

Mark Morton: 00:26:48

Um, I was trying to think about this a bit before, before we talked and I think it was, it's probably that a bit about taking your time and getting it prepared, getting it created. And as I said, this took me quite a few years. Okay, there was other circumstances going on, but don't rush it and make sure you, you know, iterate, you go back, you review it time and again, you get other people to advise you and help, help you take a look at what you've produced, give you some support or other ideas, um, do your research properly. And I think that whole product creation period is the most important because at the end of the day once you've printed it, had it created or whatever, it's too late to go back on. You know, you've you've invested a lot of money at that stage. And of course, time and effort. You want to make sure that that it is 100%. So, you know, take your time over it. Don't go, I've got to produce this in two months and get it out the door or whatever. If it takes you a year, five years, whatever, it's better to do that and make sure you've got the product that you're proud of and happy with than, uh, have to sort of almost start again because of something wasn't right.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:28:00

I think that's really good advice. Thank you. And as I said, you know, many times, obviously I've seen, I have seen your journal in real life, so I can say that it is really high quality and it is, you can see that it isn't something you rushed out in a fortnight. You really can tell that the time and effort that went into it. And I, I agree with you that yes, you could have probably done something a lot quicker, but then it wouldn't, it wouldn't be the same product that it is. And it's much harder to stand behind a product where, you know, actually, it could be better. Um, that's not a nice situation to be in.

Mark Morton: 00:28:34

Absolutely. Yeah. And thank you for those kind comments.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:28:38

Oh, no, you're welcome. Well, thank you again so much, Mark. I've really loved talking to you. And thank you for sharing your story and for telling us all about your journals.

Mark Morton: 00:28:47

Thank you very much for your time. It's been great to, great to have a chat about it and good to, good to see you again.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:28:53

Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you so much for listening right to the end of this episode. Do remember that you can get the full back catalogue and lots of free resources on my website, vickiweinberg. com. Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful. Thank you again and see you next week.