Creating and selling diversity dolls – with Stephanie Mensah – Bibinee Dolls

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:01

Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea to Life podcast. This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products, or if you'd like to create your own product to sell. I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly, practical advice, as well as inspirational stories from small businesses. Let's get started. So today on the podcast, I'm speaking to Stephanie from Bibinee Dolls. So Stephanie creates early years soft diversity dolls, which help to encourage learning through play and positive representation. I came across Stephanie online, loved her products and invited her onto the podcast. I was so glad she joined me. We just had a fantastic conversation. Um, I was actually really surprised because before speaking to Stephanie, I didn't realize how new her business was. And when she talks to you about how much she's done, um, in the last few months, I think you're going to be as amazed as I was. So it was a really, as I say, it was a really great conversation. Stephanie has such a clear vision. She's so passionate. She talks a lot about the inspiration for her dolls, the process of creating them. And I think there is so much that we all can learn from this. So I would love now to introduce you to Stephanie. So hi, Stephanie. Thank you so much for being here.

Stephanie Mensah: 00:01:19

Hi, Vicki.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:20

Can you start by giving introduction to yourself, your business, and what you sell, please?

Stephanie Mensah: 00:01:25

Yeah, of course. So my name is Stephanie, uh, Mensah. Um, I'm 44, mum of two. Um, I currently reside in London, so I'm in South London at the moment. My background is in project management, so IT, procurement, um, management, um, nothing related to what I do, but, uh, that's, uh, that's what I kind of do at the moment. Um, in terms of my business, I currently, um, make early years, diversity, soft plush dolls. Um, the reason why I started the business, um, is three years ago, I had my, my two children. Um, And the nursery that both of my children go to, um, doesn't have much diversity within the nursery when it comes to their toys. And I thought it was very important that this be something that they have exposure to, especially since myself was growing up, um, in the seventies and eighties, there wasn't anything like that out there. Um, and I really wanted my children to have the opportunity to have that representation. Um, so that's, that's really the background as to why I kickstarted the business.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:02:42

That's amazing. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing. So if anyone who hasn't yet looked to your website, which of course we'll link in the show notes, everyone can go and have a look. But if anyone who hasn't looked or maybe driving can't look right now, can you just, um, tell us a bit about your dolls, some of the dolls in your range, what they look like, just describe them for us.

Stephanie Mensah: 00:02:59

Yeah, cool. So, um, we have a few series in terms of the dolls. So we launched with the Mabel doll, uh, Mabel doll series, and that consists of four dolls, um, who all have, uh, four different outfits. Um, the story behind Mabel is actually they're named after my late mum. Um, so originally I'm from Ghana in West Africa. Um, and I thought it was really important to have dolls that represent a cultural influence as well. So two of the dolls wear, um, one, um, one fabric, which is called kente, which is normally worn by, um, royalty in Ghana. So it very much linked into or synced into the whole of the idea of being a princess, kind of like a Ghanian princess. Uh, and the other fabric is Ankara, which is commonly worn in West Africa as well. Um, and then growing up, I've always been into fairy tales. So I've always loved unicorns. I thought, well, why don't we do a unicorn doll as well? Um, and then we also have, um, another doll, which, uh, wears hearts. So that's the Mabel doll series. Um, and then obviously having my son, um, I realized that there wasn't much, um, black or brown, uh, boy dolls, especially within the soft doll marketplace. Um, and so I created two, um, boy dolls, one which is called Rhys and the other one which is called Kojo, which is named after my son. Um, and, um, uh, Rhys is, uh, has a dinosaur, um, top because my son is just besotted with dinosaurs. We watch that all day. Um, And then Kojo is wearing a tracksuit, which says Little King. Um, growing up his dad really, um, tries to put a lot of positive affirmations in him to let him know that, you know, when he grows up, he can become anything that he wants to be. So it was important for us to reflect that within the dolls. One of the tops says little King on his tracksuit as well. Um, and then speaking to, um our friends and family and just going out and really doing a lot of market research. We also introduced, um, Amira, who is, um, Islamic doll. So she's wearing a hijab. Um, and it was really based upon the fact that within the black community, obviously there's a um, Muslim, uh, is a large, uh, religion within the Black community. There wasn't any dolls that reflected that, um, and so we thought it'd be great for us to introduce that into the collection, um, as well. Um, and then we, we actually launched a doll in, um, February at the Baby Show and a large part of our audience had really said that, um, had come from a multicultural background, so a mixed heritage background, and they had also felt that there weren't any dolls that reflected mixed heritage, um, children. So it would either be Caucasian or, um, from an Afro Caribbean, um, background. So we created Zara. Um, so Zara and Reece are our two mixed heritage dolls. So that's the collection so far. Um, and then we're hoping to release Sky who will be our neutral doll. So for either a boy or a girl. That's amazing. Thank you so much for talking us through that because I've obviously been on your website and seen your dolls and they're beautiful by the way.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:06:29

Thank you. And so it's, yeah, I think, I thought it was really important for you to explain to people so they can just understand the range of dolls that you have. Um, and thank you for explaining how that's grown as well. Um, we're going to go back a little bit if that's okay. So Stephanie, you mentioned that you had your, was it your daughter you had first?

Stephanie Mensah: 00:06:47

My son.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:06:47

Your son first. And then was that, was that this inspiration for thinking that you wanted to create your dolls?

Stephanie Mensah: 00:06:54

Yeah. So we, we actually, so, um, we had to change nurseries, um, uh, about six, seven months ago. Um, and we were really restricted in terms of what nursery we could put him into because his old nursery had closed down. Um, all of, uh, you know, quite suddenly. Um, and we had done the settling in day with him. And in that particular nursery that we had, uh, got into, there was only one, um, one other, uh, black child within the nursery. Um, and immediately all the children there were like, oh, is that your brother? That's your brother. And it was really, really innocent because to them, they had seen another boy with a similar skin tone to the boy who's currently within the nursery. Um, and then when we had a quick look around, we realized that actually there wasn't much diversity within the nursery. So immediately, that's the reason why the children had associated my son with the other little boy that was in the nursery. And so we did some research into it. Um, and we we said, you know, for us, it was really important that children from early years. So there's a lot of dolls on the market at the moment, plastic dolls, but they really start from an age group from, I would say maybe five or six years upwards, but it was nothing that really targeted early years. So from birth, um, and looking into it, we noticed that children really start to grasp, um, identification of, you know, where their eyes are, nose are, the colour of their skin, their hair, really from the age of one years old. Um, and this is what we wanted to do, to introduce it to families and to also introduce it into child care facilities. And that's really where the idea, uh, was born. So it was from that little comment that, that child had made in the nursery that made us just realize that actually this is a common problem. And then when we spoke with quite a few mums and my friends, um, who may have moved to slightly more, um, remote areas. We were coming up with the same thing, that there isn't really much representation there. Um, and also that the children who were not, um, of Black heritage actually welcomed having dolls of a different colour as well. Um, and so that was really, um, great to find out as well.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:09:26

Thank you for explaining all that. And I think until I had my own children, I actually didn't notice how early children pick up on these things. I just assumed that little children didn't. And it wasn't until I had my own that I went, oh, actually kids pay real attention. And they notice what people look like and they notice who looks like them and who looks different to them and all of these things they do. And I really assumed that little kids wouldn't and didn't.

Stephanie Mensah: 00:09:56

Yeah, I mean, there's a common analogy that says, you know, children are blind to colour and, um, I think that the correction that people want to say is, children don't see race. So there's no such thing as racism when you're a child. There's differences, but there's not racism. Um, and in fact, I mean, my son, his best friend is, um, uh, white and he has ginger hair. So that's, you know, and that's his closest best friend of all. Um, but it's important for us to be able to teach our children the differences. So, and it's not just skin colour. I mean, it just so happens, obviously we've created dolls that represent the black and brown community, but there's lots of other diversity issues out there. There's, um, children with disabilities, there's, um, different skin, um, skin disorders that children may have. Um, you know, there's so many other variances and it's important for us to teach children that to be different um, is, you know, is, is fine, um, and to educate them on that so that they don't grow up not having that empathy for people who are different to them. And I think that's for us one of the key messages that we want to really send out there.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:19

Absolutely. And then I think there's also probably the side of that it's really nice for a child to have a doll that they feel represents them as well from a really young age. Because as you say, I've seen lots of. So, um, there's definitely more diversity in the plastic kind of dolls aimed at older children.

Stephanie Mensah: 00:11:38

Yes.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:11:39

But yeah, I think until I came across your brand, I don't think I've seen a brand for newborns that, that does that.

Stephanie Mensah: 00:11:46

Yeah, that not a lot of people, if anything, I don't want to put myself on a record, but we've done some market research and it's very limited. There are soft black and brown dolls out there, but again, you know, they're very kind of, um, more for presentation. So to look really nice in the nursery, whereas when we created our dolls, we wanted them to be really durable because, you know, if kids are like my daughter, for example, they're going to be tugged, dribbled on. Um, they're going to go through it. And it was really important that when we create the dolls that we could you know, we made sure that they weren't really there for presentation purposes and that a typical one year old would be able to use the doll. Um, and also we made it machine washable as well. Um, because, you know, my daughter, she'll get Weetabix on her soft dolls, you know, like literally I'm washing every single day. So it was important for us to make sure that we could machine wash it. And it was a good enough size as well, um, so that it could also just be used as not just a doll, but a comforter. Um, so I don't know about you, but in terms of my daughter. So, she slept with us for a long time. Um, we still have instances where she comes to sleep in our bed and she's 14 months old. And so transitioning her from the big bed to her own bed was an ongoing process. And so what we did was we introduced one of the dolls to her so that it became more of a comfort so that now when we put her into her cot, she's sleeping with one of the dolls. And, you know, when she wakes up all of a sudden, she doesn't feel that she's alone. There's a doll next to her to give her that comfort and soothe her back to sleep. So yeah, it was overall, um, uh, a process there. But yeah, you're absolutely right. There isn't a lot on the market at all. And that's one of the reasons why we really want to drive awareness and and get it into the big stores as well.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:13:53

Yeah. And we'll talk a bit that a bit more about that later if that's okay. So you've spoken a lot about what your dolls, and I can tell so much thought and care has gone into the design of them. Um, can you talk a little bit more about that, please? Because I think it's amazing you had such a clear vision. You knew what you wanted your dolls to be and how, and all of this, but how did you go from having that vision and those ideas to actually having your, your physical product there? Because that's quite a process. And you've done it reasonably quickly as well.

Stephanie Mensah: 00:14:24

Yeah, we did, we did. Um, a lot of research. So as you said, you know, we knew what we wanted. Um, I knew, or I guess I could say I knew what I didn't want. So I'd seen what was on the market and I didn't want that. So I wanted to make sure that I had the complete opposite. So we, we went on the rampage. We looked at various, um, distributors. So I already had a design in my head. Um, I reached out to a couple of, um, illustrators, um, who created the designs based upon the ideas that I had. Um, and then from then I went into various platforms. So I actually reached out to companies who already produced soft plush dolls, and I ordered a few in, and then I sampled it myself to see the quality of them. I washed them several times, just to make sure, and then based upon that, I then reached out to them and said, look, I would like to customize my own doll. Is this something that you can do? Or is this something you'd be, um, willing to work with us on? And a few of them said no, you know, we only do our own brand dolls, we don't customise. Um, and then I was lucky enough to get two that said that they do. Um, and so we then, um, did the designs but the two, one still wasn't quite working out right, and then the second one was just perfect, and so we went with them. Um, so it was a bit of, it was a bit of a process, um, and obviously when you're creating a doll, it's proofing it, sending samples, making sure that we're happy with it. Um, and we went back and forth a few, a few times until we got it to where we wanted it to be.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:16:08

That's brilliant. And yeah, I'm, I feel like you definitely sound like a sort of person who just decides to do something and goes for it. I mean, there's a lot to be said for that.

Stephanie Mensah: 00:16:17

Yeah, well, I should say it's not my first business, um, that I've done. Um, I actually come from a family of, um, I wouldn't call it small businesses. So my mum has, you know, ran several small businesses in the past when I was young, I'd walk with her door to door to houses. She would do, um, you know, somebody would buy items from her and then they would lease it from her. So I kind of got the sales angle from her. Um, and she'd always said to me, you know, if you, if it's something that you're believing that you're passionate about, go for it. Um, if it fails, just try again or just change the model. Um, but don't give up, you know, if you've got the idea, see it through as far as you can do. Um, and then, you know, you're going to come across challenges. Um, and that's what sometimes the challenges are, is what allows you to know whether you have an actual good business idea. Um, if it's going too well, sometimes that's a bit of a sign, but um, you know, you need to have those obstacles. You need to have other people and companies challenging your idea for you to know whether you've made the right decision or not.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:17:33

And have you had many challenges out of interest?

Stephanie Mensah: 00:17:36

Yeah, so I've, I've had knockbacks. So certain platforms that I thought, you know, would jump at the chance of, um, this particular product have said, no, it's not for them. They don't feel they have the marketplace or the audience for it. Um, and I guess you have that inner, you know, that, that, that inner self that says, okay, well, I'm going to show you, you know, look at me in, you know, two, three years time. Um, but then at the same time, it's also understanding that your business or your product isn't going to be for everybody. Um, it may only be for selected stores or selected audience. Um, and that's okay. You don't have to create something that appeases everybody or that everybody wants. But you need to create something that a big enough audience will want. So, obviously, you can make some profit and income from it. And I think it was just realizing that, um, because, you know, when I had my first few knockbacks, I took it personally, quite personally, um, and I thought, you know, have I made the right decision here? Should I have changed this? Maybe should I have done, um, dolls that reflect all races instead of just doing black and brown dolls. So you really start to question your idea and your motive. Um, and then it's just kind of sitting back and reflecting on why you did it, um, what you're trying to achieve, what your goal is, and then really stay in the course.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:19:05

And I think you're right as well, that your products or nobody's products will be for everyone. Um, and it's, but I think that's sometimes a hard thing to realize, even though I think most of us know that. But I think your first real reminder of that can be a bit of a, feel like a bit of a setback.

Stephanie Mensah: 00:19:22

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And, you know, I mean, we do pop ups as well. Um, so we've recently started doing like little pop ups, market stalls. And again, you're not going to get, it's not going to be for everyone, but then when you do, like, I could do a pop up, maybe it might be quiet for the first few hours, and then I'll get this little girl running up to the stall, and she's like, mummy, daddy, look this doll, I really, really want it. And then just that look alone, just reinforces, I know I'm doing the right thing. And then it just pushes you to continue what you're doing. Because I know I made her day. So I know she walked away that day, not expecting to see our doll, saw it, fell in love with it, and now that's her best friend. And... For me, that's an achievement.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:20:07

That's lovely. And let's talk a little bit about stockists if that's okay, Stephanie. So is finding places to stock your dolls, was that always part of your plan?

Stephanie Mensah: 00:20:16

Yes. So when I created this, um, I always knew that I wanted to do B2B sales. Um, so business to business. Um. Again, I do want to obviously maintain the business to consumer side. Obviously that's where the passion comes into it. Um, but the, my business plan was always in order for me to create that awareness and to reach a wide marketplace. Um, I felt that the products would be suited to, uh, businesses and it could be either a boutique business or it could be more mainstream business, um, to allow them to have the dolls within their facility so that it could reach their audience as well. Um, so that was always on my, uh, agenda.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:21:02

And how have you gone about finding stockists?

Stephanie Mensah: 00:21:05

Um, good old internet. Um, back in the day it was yellow pages, but we won't go there. Um, but yeah, the good, the good old internet. Um, and, uh, Instagram has been a great, um, aid. Uh, pint, uh, pinterest. I never think I'm saying it right. Um, and it was just looking at each, um, stockist or retailer, looking at what's currently stocked within their stores at the moment and just seeing would my dolls be a good fit for their store? Um, will it create the, uh, attention or the awareness that we're looking for? Um, so yeah, so that, that's literally part of our daily activities as we'll look at um, toy, uh, toy magazines. So we look at Toy World quite a lot. We'll go into the internet, we'll do research, um, and then we'll look for stockists. And then we'll approach them directly either via Instagram, um, or we'll reach out to them via email or even just a simple phone call. Um, I think sometimes we forget the basic, so, uh, networking and, you know, creating that relationship and just picking up the phone and calling somebody and having a conversation, it's just as powerful as using social media. Um, so yeah, that's, that's really what we do.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:22:29

And you're right. It is really nice because so for, I know even with our friends and family, sometimes it's so easy not to pick up the phone. So I can see that that probably would go down well.

Stephanie Mensah: 00:22:38

Yes. Yes. And I think sometimes they're taken aback because they think, oh, they called me. But I think what I had to remember is a lot of the, so my stockists are a mixture of old and new. So some of them, you know, they've been running these, uh, either gift stores or toy shops for many, many years. So they've seen, they've gone through the whole cycle. And so they're very used to how things used to work. And I think they appreciate, you know, that one to one, um, um, connection as opposed to, um, you know, an email or Instagram, because sometimes, I mean, I met somebody on Saturday, on Saturday and, um, he said to me, I'm going to, he said, I'm going to Insta you. I said, what does Insta mean really? Because I don't know, this is something new to me. Um, but you know, he said, you know, he'd had to adapt to how things are going at the moment, but he very rarely checks his emails. He doesn't do it. He just doesn't know how to do it, but he will check his text messages, for example. So I think it's just understanding, um, your stock issue audience and the right method of communication that will best suit them.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:23:49

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And you mentioned earlier on that you were at the Baby Show earlier this year when you launched your latest doll. So how, how did that go?

Stephanie Mensah: 00:23:59

Yeah, so that was actually the launch. So we launched in February this year. Um, when I tell people, they're like, well, yeah, we, uh, so we, or I should say we did a soft launch in December. To see if the business model really works. So we did a soft launch in December, and that's when we thought, yeah, this is really, really going to do well. And then we did the official launch. We registered the business, did official launch in February, and the baby show was in March. Um, and it was, it was scary to go into a big environment like that, because I think for us, it was a true test of whether do we have something that will relate to a varied audience. Um, and I'm not sure if many of your, um, your, uh, members know, but obviously the Baby Show is, uh, an annual event. So there's four that happens throughout the year. We chose to go to the one in Excel. Um, which happened in March, and it's a three day event, and it's really targeted towards, um, new parents, um, or existing parents. So, you come, you can get to look at some of the products that you normally see online, you can get to test it, um, and then you can meet companies like us, who are brand new into the industry. Um, but we got a really good reaction, um, and that's what made us realize that actually, although our dolls are black and, uh, black and brown dolls, it's not just for the black and brown community, it's for everybody. Um, we had a lot of parents who were not from the, uh, Black Heritage who came up and said, I want my child to be able to know that there are differences. Um, and at the moment, my child only has dolls with blonde hair, blue eyes. Um, and we want them to know that there is a, uh, you know, there's a variety. And in fact, their best friend is, is, um, a black girl or their best friend is an Asian girl. And, you know, so for them, it was really, really great and refreshing to see. Um, and then for the parents who are from a black and brown community, it was like, oh my God, where have you been? Um, I've been looking for something like this for so long. I really want my daughter or my son to see himself or herself in a positive light. Um, and I, and this is just, you know, everything. And so that really cemented the idea and then from then we've just been going from strength to strength.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:26:31

That's amazing. And I also, I didn't pick up on this earlier, but I was actually thinking that even having boy dolls, I think, is, is another difference. Because I remember my son being two and wanting a baby doll and wanting a boy baby doll. And I was really surprised that. And this was like a hard, but baby, but I was actually surprised at how little choice there were of male baby dolls at the time as well. That really surprised me. I, I assumed that dolls were of both genders.

Stephanie Mensah: 00:27:03

Yeah. No, I mean, it's funny that you should say that because when we, we launched it at the baby show and I think the issue you have is, um, there's a lot of stereotypes. So, you know, as soon as somebody is having a boy, or they find out their gender is going to be a boy, immediately they're either linked to playing with dinosaurs, trucks, you know, everything is already kind of paved out for them. And we had a lot of really interesting conversations with not mums, funny enough, but dads. So a lot of dads were very hesitant to have their child playing with a doll, because they saw it as a doll. Um, and we, you know, we spent a lot of time, and that's why I think sometimes these shows are really great, because when you're, if, if they were online they would never have this interaction, um, but face to face you're able to really break it down to them why it's important that whether it's a boy or a girl that they have the, they have access to be able to, um, have imaginative play with a doll that represents them you know, that, that looks like them. That is also a boy. Um, but yeah, that there's, there's a lot of stereotypes. A lot of the dads were very against, no, I only want my son to be playing with a car and I don't want my son. And you know, the mums were like, no, and some dads gave in and some dads were very headstrong and, you know, we're like, no, it's, it's, it's not going to happen. And I think because of that, that has influenced manufacturers. Um, and toy makers out there as well, because they immediately, you say a doll and it's linked to a girl. Um, and so for commercial reasons, the industry has focused more of its time producing girl dolls. Um, as opposed to boy dolls. Um, because it just doesn't want to go through that whole convincing, I guess, if you want to put it that way. Um, but we, when we released our girl dolls, our mums were upset. They said, you know, but where's the boys? I want one for my son and, and that's what really pushed us to, um, we weren't going to release a boy until probably towards the end of the year, um, you know, for financial reasons, because we were, you know, we had a lot, a lot of stock, um, and, you know, we did our focus groups and they said, no, we want our boys, um, and they are doing so well.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:29:41

That's really good to hear. And I do wonder whether, and I guess that possibly things will start to shift over the next couple of years.

Stephanie Mensah: 00:29:49

Yeah, 100%. And that's, that's the reason why we actually created Sky as well, because Sky is our gender neutral doll. Uh, and we found that actually when we was at the baby show, um, you know, some of the dolls that we had there were very much girly fied. So, you know, they were wearing pink or purple, which, you know, typical kind of girly colours. And parents were coming back and saying, I'm actually tired of seeing pink and purple. I want to see a different colour. I want to see a neutral colour. And so we decided to come up with Sky, which was gender neutral. So it didn't matter whether it was a boy or a girl. It was just a baby doll and they could play with it. Um, and I think that... that really intrigued parents as well and they were really happy about that. Um, and you know, that's, we haven't released it yet, but we've got it on pre order and that's received a lot of interest as well.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:30:43

That's really good to hear. And so are these shows out of interest, purely out of interest for anyone listening, considering doing, doing something similar. Are they also good ways to find stockists? Do you get buyers and people like that attending?

Stephanie Mensah: 00:30:55

Yeah, you get a few. So usually on day one, so Fridays are usually, so it's usually Friday, Saturday, Sunday, um, for the big trade shows. Um, so Fridays are usually meant for, um, your influencers, social media influencers, your stockists, so it's typically more of a quiet day. So you get to have really good conversations. Um, I think it's also great because you get to meet other baby brands, um, or other brands within your marketplace, um, that you could potentially collaborate with. And I think that's something that people also forget as well, but I mean, we, we recently did a collaboration with the food, um, a baby food brand called For Aisha. Um, and it went really, really, really well. Um, you know, we are marketing to the same audience. We just have two different products. So it was, you know, why don't we just come together, do a campaign, do a giveaway, um, and then get, um, uh, followers from both of our audiences following each other and then gain more followers that way. Um, and so yeah, if you do decide to go to any of these events, I mean, do your research first. I would always say attend one as just a normal person. So I had attended the baby show when I was pregnant with my, uh, with my son. Um, so I knew what it was about. Um, I knew what to expect. Um, and so if I hadn't have done that, I'm not too sure if I would have gone forward with it. Um, so I'd say, well, let's do your research first as well before, because they can be quite expensive. So, uh, you want to make sure that, you know, it's going to have the right audience for you. Um, and it also allows you to decide what products you're going to take to the show. And, um, you know how your marketing is going to be as well.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:32:49

That's really great advice. Thank you. I have another question specifically about toys, if that's okay. Because obviously toys, particularly if they've been given to newborns, have to meet certain, I don't know how to say it, requirements, legislation. They need to be certified basically, don't they?

Stephanie Mensah: 00:33:05

Yes.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:33:06

Um, how. How do you go about that process? And is that, is it like really hard? Um, I'm asking because I feel like it's, it's something that can sometimes intimidate people. Stephanie, you don't seem like someone who does get intimidated, which is great, but, um, it would be great to have a, just hear a little bit about how you went about that and what your experience was because I think there might be people listening who would really find that reassuring.

Stephanie Mensah: 00:33:30

So, again, it's, it's a lot, it's, it's, it's research, so it's looking at other toys which are in the market. So, we, we actually went on to Amazon first, so we know that to trade on Amazon, you really have to have everything in order, um, because, or even to trade in a big retailer, um, because they're putting themselves at risk of trading your product. So, they need to make sure that it's passed all the relative checks. So we looked at, um, we weren't ready for Amazon when we first launched. We're on Amazon now, but we looked at what are the requirements that Amazon want from, um, a manufacturer from a, from a brand basically. And it was a long list and we said, okay, let's, let's start targeting to make sure that we have all of this. So once we knew what was required, we then went to the manufacturer and said, this is what's required. Do you meet this? Can you get this? Um, and they literally started ticking off the boxes. So we learned that in order for our product to be to trade with in within Europe, they need to be CE certified. They also need to be UK CA as well. Um, and we also know that because of the market, um, the audience, so the age range that we are targeting, they need to be fully, um, tested for any toxins, uh, within the dolls as well. So from the fabrics that are being used, uh, that are being used. Um, and so again, our manufacturers were really great because they had all these testings and they had all the requirements and, um, they kind of made our jobs a little bit easy. So we didn't have to go and look, um, get, uh, you know, an EA, EAN or SKU, um, codes that was all provided for us. And that was part of the cost of them producing the dolls for us. So I guess maybe we, we pay a slightly marked up rate for our dolls because it includes all of those checks. Um, but if you were somebody who makes the dolls yourself, so we design our dolls, but we don't hand make them ourselves. It's handmade by our manufacturers. Um, you would need to, you know, have this list and then, you know, it will show you if you go into gov uk, it actually tells you that to trade, whether it's a doll or any type of product, what you need to have. Um, and then it's just following those steps.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:36:11

That's really helpful. Thank you. And I think you're right that if you're working with a manufacturer, presumably they should be doing all of these things already in order to manufacture uh, toys in this example, so they should be, I mean, it would be worrying if they weren't up to date. So I think that's good to hear, but you're right, if you're making your products another way, then yeah, you definitely need to be clear on what's required.

Stephanie Mensah: 00:36:34

Yes, exactly.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:36:37

Um, I'm going to change subject just a tiny bit if that was okay, Stephanie, because I want to talk really quickly about sustainability, because I saw on your website that you do have a sustainability policy and there are certain things you're doing. I just thought it'd be nice to talk about that a bit.

Stephanie Mensah: 00:36:51

Yeah, of course. Um, so for us, um, you know, part of our research and developing the dolls is, you know, we're quite big on sustainability. We really wanted to make sure that the dolls were eco friendly as well. Um, and it was important that the dolls were made in an environment, um, which supported, you know, equal rights, equal pay. Um, and so these are all the things that, you know, when we were looking at manufacturers, that we took into consideration. So I guess it may have made our journey of finding the manufacturer who's producing our dolls a bit longer because we wanted to make sure that it passed all of this, but it was very important to us that it contains those elements, uh, as well. Um, in terms of how the dolls are produced. So the dolls are made using polyester, but we use recycled polyester fillings for the, for the inside. And then in terms of packaging, we're very conscious in terms of recycling. So we make sure that all of our packaging is biodegradable. Um, and that was one of the reasons why, when we created the dolls, we made sure that everything was Engraved. So all the features are engraved. We don't use plastic, um, uh, eyes or, um, yeah, we don't use any, anything plastic on the dolls, um, because they, they don't decompose as well. Um, uh, basically. Um, so we're trying our best, I mean, moving forwards, obviously as a small business, sometimes it's hard to really utilize everything when it comes to trying to be sustainable because then your, your price range just pushes higher and higher and obviously we want the doll to be marketed at a price that is affordable for most families, um, the majority of families, um, but moving forward, it's definitely something that we want to continue to push, um, and we're hoping that we may be able to launch dolls which are fully recyclable, um, and biodegradable, um, and we can use materials that, uh, you know, a lot more friendly to the environment as well.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:39:07

That's amazing. Thanks for explaining all of that. Um, I love how clear you are on everything that you, that you want. I should also point out to everyone that we're recording this in very, very early June and you launched in February. So you've come, you've done a lot.

Stephanie Mensah: 00:39:23

Thank you. Thank you. I think, I think it's because I'm just so passionate, you know, it's, it's myself and my husband who run the business, just so passionate about it. Um, and I just think there's such a, you know, there's a gap in the market, uh, for it. And, you know, I think when you're, when you release something and your audience or your customer and your client base continuously tell you how appreciative they are, it's there. It just pushes you, drives you to to continue. And, uh, we, we just have so many big plans for the brand moving forwards that, yeah, for us, you know, every time I talk about it, I have a smile on my face because I'm just excited about how the future is going to look.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:40:09

Good. And so you should be, I think it is really exciting. And I've got one final question, Stephanie, if that's okay, which is what was your number one piece of advice for other product creators?

Stephanie Mensah: 00:40:20

Oh, where do I start? I think I mentioned some of this earlier on. So, um, use your environment around you. So your friends and your family, um, you know, when, when I first launched products, I reached out to friends and family just to get their, just on it. What do you think? Um, I actually sent out, um, probably about 10 to 20 actually, to friends and family for free. Um, I just wanted their children to be able to play with it. Just get that feedback from them, um, whether good or bad, just let me know. Um, and I got, I got a mixture of feedback. I had people say, oh, it's too expensive. Or, um, can it do this? Or can you do this colour? Can you do this hairstyle? And, you know, some, you can, some of the feedback you're able to take on board, and obviously you can, um, change it or reflect it in your end product, and some of them, you know, sometimes you have to park it for now. I never say disregard it, um, because that, again, feedback is feedback. It may not be feedback that you want to hear right now, um, but it's feedback. So maybe all you need to do is just park it for now and then in the future, um, look into it at some point. So I guess for me, anybody who's considering launching a product, use your, um, community or your family around you, your friends and family, just to get an idea of what you know, what they think about the product. Um, uh, and then I think, I don't think you're ever going to be certain about the decision that you're, uh, uh, that you've made. I don't think you're ever going to be, uh, concrete, but I think as much as you can, if you have a plan, try and stick to the plan as much as possible. Try not to deviate. It's very easy to try and have your fingers in lots of pies because you're just eager to kind of, um, I mean, somebody said to me, you know, if you're going to market, choose two main marketing mediums and focus on it because there's so many social media marketing, um, uh, avenues. There's so many paper, you know. I said to somebody the other day, do you do, do you read blogs? And they said, blogs? What's a blog? It's all about podcasts now. It's like, oh, well. Um, so I think. Don't try and do too many things all at once at the same time, because you'll either burn yourself out, or you won't be able to, um, fully present yourself in the correct way within that medium. So try and just, you know, pick a select few, focus on that. Um, and not obviously, hopefully if things go well, you can then develop a team. And then obviously, you know, it then becomes a full blown, um, business moving forward. So I think that those would be my two key things. You use your audience around you, um, and just try and remain focused and not try and do too many things at a time. And I guess I'll add one more. Be patient. Have patience. Yeah, have patience. It may not happen today or tomorrow. I mean, we do a lot of PR. We send a lot of PR press releases. And for every 50 we send out we may get one response. Um, but just keep going. It doesn't mean that it's the wrong method. It just means that that person doesn't need your product right now. But they may need it at some point. Um, so just keep going, have patience and keep doing it. Just keep going strong.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:44:08

That's such good advice. All of it, everything you said, I completely agree with Stephanie. Thank you so much.

Stephanie Mensah: 00:44:13

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:44:14

Thank you for everything you've shared.

Stephanie Mensah: 00:44:16

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:44:19

Thank you so much for listening right to the end of this episode. Do remember that you can get the full back catalogue and lots of free resources on my website, vickiweinberg. com. Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful. Thank you again and see you next week.