Creating and protecting a unique product – with Yanika Cordina – Cordinia Hair

Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea to Life podcast.

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This is the podcast for you if

you're getting started selling

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products, or if you'd like to

create your own product to sell.

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I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product

creation coach and Amazon expert.

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Every week I share friendly, practical

advice, as well as inspirational

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stories from small businesses.

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Let's get started.

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Hello.

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Today on the podcast, I'm

talking to Yanika Cordina.

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Yanika is the founder of Cordina

Hair, specializing in product

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development, intellectual

property, retail, and marketing.

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We have a really great conversation about

how Yanika created her very first product.

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Um, all the work she put into

prototyping and manufacturing, which

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she did herself in the very early days.

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We talk about copyright issues and how

she protects her intellectual property,

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um, and a whole load of other things too.

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So I really hope you enjoy

this conversation with Yanika.

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Well, Yanika, thank you

so much for being here.

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Yanika Cordina: Thank you for having me.

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I'm really excited to

be talking to you today.

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Vicki Weinberg: Well, me too.

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I've got so many questions, but can we

please start with an introduction to

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yourself, your business and what you sell?

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Yanika Cordina: Yeah, sure.

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So my name is Yanika Cordina.

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I am the founder of Cordina

Hair and I invented the

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flower curl and the waver bun.

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They are are two heatless hair

tools and that I managed to also

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secure intellectual property on.

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Vicki Weinberg: Thank you so much.

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I have so many follow on questions.

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So I guess let's start with, well,

actually, first of all, can you tell us

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a little bit about your hair curlers?

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So obviously people will

be listening to this.

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I hope everyone's going to go to your

website after and have a look, but do

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you mind just telling us briefly about

what they are and how they work, just so

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people have got an idea as we go forward.

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Yanika Cordina: Yes.

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Um, so I've got two products.

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So the flower curl is a heatless

hair curler and the waver

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barn is a heatless hair waver.

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They're slightly

different from each other.

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Uh, they're both heatless, but

one is used as a hair curler.

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So the results are quite more

like defined heatless curls.

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And it also looks very different to what

you normally find, um, online, um, it's,

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it sits on the top of your scalp, so the

sides of your face are free and you're

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able to sleep comfortably in it and

also wear it during the day and without

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having the curler kind of get in the way.

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Um, the waver bun is a, uh, heatless

hair tool that kind of sits like a bun.

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I'm wearing it right now, as you can

see, but it sits like, just like a normal

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bun and, uh, when you remove it, you get

these beautiful heatless waves and you

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don't get the typical kinks like from

hair ties from having your hair up so you

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can wear it like, during activities, we

can, we also kind of use it for sports

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as well, um, and use it overnight.

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So they're quite handy hair tools to have.

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Vicki Weinberg: Oh, thank you so much

for explaining it because I think it's

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really good for people to have like a

picture of what we're talking about.

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Obviously I can actually see you

so I can see your bun as well.

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Um, so what inspired you?

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So your heatless hair curler was

your first product and what was

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your inspiration for creating that?

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Because I think I'm right in saying

that before your products all of the

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hair curlers at the time were heated.

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Is that correct?

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Yanika Cordina: Um, there were

a few heatless hair tools.

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Um, some of them like really,

really dated and bulky.

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I feel like the product came around

because I was just frustrated with my

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own kind of trying to style my hair.

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I'm very bad at styling my hair

as well, so I was always trying

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different hair products to kind

of style my hair and I was just

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finding them, really uncomfortable,

like impossible to sleep in.

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And, uh, I really wanted to cut, to step

away from heated hair tools as well.

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I've got a really fine hair, so I

get like hair damage very easily.

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Um, and, uh, I just couldn't find a

suitable product to kind of meet my needs.

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And that's where the flower curl kind of

came up, came about, um, created quite

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a long list of criteria is that this

hair curler needed to meet and that's

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where this prototyping process started.

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Vicki Weinberg: Well, that's brilliant.

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Thanks.

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I'm really interesting.

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And actually, as you were talking

and I was saying, oh, there

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aren't many heatless products.

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It suddenly, it did come to mind.

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Of course there are, but there

were things like rollers.

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I mean, I remember a long time ago,

people with the rollers in the hair, but

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as you say, they're really bulky, quite

old fashioned, hard to put in, take out.

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So.

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Yeah and I think the reason nothing

came to mind for me was because I

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feel like a lot of those products,

people just don't use them anymore

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because they're not very practical.

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Yanika Cordina: Yeah.

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It's quite, um, I feel like they're

really time consuming as well.

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Like the traditional heatless hair

products are quite time consuming,

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bulky, and you just can't really

multitask in them I feel, and

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it's really impossible to sleep.

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And I mean, since I've launched my

flower, there's been more heatless hair

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tools on the market, but there's not

nothing quite like the flower curl.

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It looks completely different.

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Um, it looks a bit quirky, um, and

kind of that's why it's so unique

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and, and how I managed to secure,

um, intellectual property on it.

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Vicki Weinberg: And we'll definitely

talk a little bit more about the

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intellectual property in a moment.

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I'd love to touch on that and

sort of how you went about it

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and what your experience was.

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So you mentioned a moment ago

that you came up with a list

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of criteria for the product.

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And so from there, how did you

go about the prototyping process?

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Yanika Cordina: Um, it's, it

does start with obviously an

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idea that I've put on paper.

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So I had this idea came to mind.

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I drew it on a piece of paper

and took that paper and just

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started the prototyping process.

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So that can look different depending

on how complex the product is.

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But what in my case, I had to

kind of test different materials,

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different fabrics, different size.

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Uh, different sizes and testing

the technique as well, um,

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changing the techniques over time.

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And that took like three years, it took a

long time to actually launch the product.

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So from idea to launch, it can,

you know, everybody can, if I took

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three years, maybe someone else can,

it can take them a year, but the

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prototyping is quite a lengthy process.

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Vicki Weinberg: Thank

you for sharing that.

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I think it's really useful for people

to know that it did take that long,

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because I think there's often a

perception that things appear out of

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nowhere and your product comes overnight.

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So it's really good and thank

you for being so honest.

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Um, and with the prototyping process,

was that something you were doing

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yourself or were you working with

a company to support you with that?

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Yanika Cordina: So money was an issue.

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Um, and I was working

two jobs at the time.

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So I did it all by myself.

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I had like a little sewing machine.

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Um, I'm not a seamstress, but

I just kind of learned how

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to use it and was testing it.

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And probably that's why it took me

a bit longer as well, because I was

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doing it all by myself and didn't have

that, um, external help, which, you

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know, I, I couldn't afford to pay.

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Um, but I believed in my product and

I found a way around the money issue.

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Um, and I made it happen.

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Vicki Weinberg: That's brilliant.

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Thank you.

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And yet that must've taken so much

perseverance to actually be doing that.

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yourself, um, as well as, you know,

they're coming up with the ideas and

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tweaking, but to actually be the person

who then has to go and sit at the machine

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and make the changes and make another

round of prototype, that's, yeah, I can

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see totally why that's so time intensive.

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Especially when, you know,

you have other jobs as well.

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Yanika Cordina: Yeah.

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And I mean, I used to work like two jobs.

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One, my main job, like finishing at five.

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And then I would start my second job in

the evening just to get that extra money.

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Um, which eventually helped fund the

initial stages of the flower curl.

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Um, but I worked on the prototypes

whenever I had a moment to

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myself, like my free time.

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So it would be evenings, weekends.

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And, uh, it was, it became almost

like a hobby, really, I was really

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enjoying the process and prototyping

can be quite lengthy, but I found

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it quite fun because I knew there

was something special about it.

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And I knew I was going to get

to the final version of it.

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But the steps, you just need to

embrace the process, um, and go

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from one prototype to the other,

like the very first prototype.

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It looks nothing like

what it looks like now.

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Um, so you'll see lots of versions

of the product, um, over time,

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um, until you get the right one.

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Vicki Weinberg: That's really interesting.

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And I guess that means that

you can sort of work out which,

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what works, what doesn't work.

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And I imagine that your final version

is maybe, is it like an amalgamation

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of the versions that came before.

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So the good parts that

you, that you took from it.

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And did you involve anyone

else in the process?

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I'm just wondering, did you

have people to test it for you?

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See if it works in different hair types

or back in these very early days was were

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you sort of keeping the idea to yourself?

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Yanika Cordina: Yeah, it was

this big secret that I was, uh,

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keeping from everyone else, but,

um, my family knew about it.

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So my mum was testing it out, um, I was

testing out and then I was like cutting

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my hair to test it out on shorter hair.

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And I also bought, um, like a hundred

percent human hair mannequins.

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So testing, testing it on like very

thick hair and different hair lengths.

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So I had to find a way to kind of

test it out, but keep it a secret.

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Um, and, uh, when I was going to my office

job, I was getting compliments on my hair.

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So that was, um, a nice, uh, kind

of validation of what I was doing.

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So I knew I was onto something when I'm

getting compliments on how my hair looked

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and they were asking me what I'm, what I'm

using and how I have the time to do it.

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So these, all these, all these feedback

that I was getting just fueled me

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to continue doing what I was doing.

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Vicki Weinberg: Yeah, thank you.

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And at which stage did you think

about patenting your designs?

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Let's talk about the

intellectual property.

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Was that once you had your final

prototype or was it once you'd

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started thinking about manufacturing?

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Which bit comes first, would you say?

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Yanika Cordina: So I feel like

straight away, so I think it.

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And I had an idea and I had

to look it up and see if it's

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actually already out there.

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I think that is really the first

step that I probably recommend.

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You would Google and just have a look

if your idea is already out there.

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And I couldn't find anything

and, um, and I thought this is

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something that I probably would

need to look into protecting.

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I had no idea about like

intellectual property.

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So I had no knowledge

on the subject at all.

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So it's a lot of research and, uh,

there is a lot of information online.

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It can be quite overwhelming.

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It's quite a complex subject, but

there is a lot of information.

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And, and from that, I was able to look

up existing patents and to see whether

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my idea has already been protected.

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Um, and there was nothing like my idea.

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So that's where I approached a

patent attorney to discuss my

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products and look into protecting it.

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Vicki Weinberg: That makes sense.

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And I think definitely to do it before

you start finding someone to work

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with, because of course you need to

know that your idea is safe before.

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Yanika Cordina: 100%.

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And also you wouldn't want to work on

something and all of a sudden you realize

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you're actually copying someone else.

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Um, you don't want to be in that position

because one, you could get into, um,

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legal complications there and you, you

don't want to be wasting a lot of time.

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Like I spent three years prototyping.

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So imagine if I spend that much time

and then only to realize that my

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product is, has already been patented.

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Um, so definitely.

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research up front, um, I would

say, uh, is the key forward.

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Vicki Weinberg: And that was working with

a patent attorney helpful because like,

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like you say, it seems so complicated

knowing what sort of protection to get.

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So was it useful to work with

somebody who knew the ins and

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outs and could recommend it?

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Yanika Cordina: I do recommend

working alongside a patent attorney.

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I feel he was able to answer a lot of my

questions, um, and they tend to write a

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lot of information on the subject as well.

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So in the beginning, if let's say you

don't have a budget towards, um, patents,

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you can approach a company that can help

you with a patent and ask you questions.

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And often times they would send you

links to articles that you can read.

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And that's what I did.

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So they've sent me lots of information.

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I printed all that information out and

almost studied it so I can understand

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what I'm getting myself into.

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And I think knowing a

bit on the subject helps.

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Um, because it can be quite a

costly, uh, way to, you know, lose

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all your money in the beginning.

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So, um, I think research and reading

through it all can really help the process

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and make it a bit more cost efficient.

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Vicki Weinberg: That's really good advice.

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Thank you.

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Um, yeah, I really liked that as well.

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Because I think the more information

that you have as well, you just felt

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a bit more in control of the process.

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Of course, so much of this is new

and, um, I'm assuming as well, this

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is the first product that you created.

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So like the whole thing

is very new to you.

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Yanika Cordina: Sorry, I, you

need to repeat that again.

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Sorry.

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Vicki Weinberg: No, don't worry at all.

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I was saying, am I right in thinking this

was the first product you've created?

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So of course the whole

process is very new to you.

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Yanika Cordina: Yes.

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So, um, it was the first time I've ever

created something that I was looking

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into protecting and also there's like

different variations of protection.

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So you can look at protecting

how it looks, you can protect how

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it actually functions, you can

protect the, the, the name of it.

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Um, so you can get all this kind of

help, free online and then if you speak

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with a patent attorney they can guide

you in the right direction as well.

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So there's like patent protection,

design patent, and trademark protection.

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Vicki Weinberg: That's

really useful, thank you.

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So I think for anyone looking to

do that, a patent attorney sounds

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like a really good first step.

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Yanika Cordina: Yes and um.

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Vicki Weinberg: Sorry.

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Yanika Cordina: One thing to add on

that, I feel in the beginning, obviously

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I've made lots of mistakes and I

approached, um, like an established

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company where they have like lots

of patent attorneys and that is, uh,

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very costly, um, and that costs me

more money than I wanted to spend.

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And so I feel like if money is an

issue and you want to um, find more

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efficient ways to make it work.

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Um, finding a patent attorney that's

got the experience but is self employed.

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So that could really help you

actually bring the costs down, it can

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help you save thousands of pounds.

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Vicki Weinberg: That is so useful to know.

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Thank you so much.

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That's really, that's really good advice.

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I think, yeah, because you're right.

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I think every part of the

process can get so expensive.

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So I think anywhere where we can

perhaps save a little is really good.

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And so speaking of that, so once you

have your pattern and you had your

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prototype and you were happy with the

final design, how did you go from making

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everything yourself on your sewing

machine to like bulk manufacturing?

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Yanika Cordina: So having a working

prototype is great, but obviously you

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have to make sure that it's, you need to

create an efficient way to produce it.

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Um, and that's where, where you

would be handling the production

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process to someone else.

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Um, and that's what I did.

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I had to find a factory to help

me bring the products to life

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and, um, have a production line

set up and, and create a process.

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So the product has never been done before

they needed a process and it can be quite

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difficult if you have a unique product.

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Um, I did get a lot of pushback, um,

because people, you know, factories

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want to stick to making a t shirt.

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They don't want a complex

product on their line.

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Um, but you know, I believed in it and

I continued to persevere with it and um,

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we, we have a production line in place and

that took quite a while as well to set up.

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So, um, it's three years

prototyping, trying to set it up.

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Um, that kind of all goes into

setting up before launching.

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Um, uh, yeah, so that's kind

of how the process went.

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Vicki Weinberg: Thank you.

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And I think you can't really

underestimate, can you, the, like how

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long the process can take of finding

someone to help with the manufacturing,

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especially as you said, when your products

say unique, because you might've done

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the prototyping and know exactly what

you want, but then it's finding someone

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else who can produce exactly what

you want, exactly to your standards.

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Um, and as you say, want to be

collaborative with you as well.

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I think that's not as, maybe it

doesn't sound easy, but it's definitely

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not as easy as, as it maybe sounds.

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Yanika Cordina: Yeah.

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I think manufacturing is probably one

of the hardest things I've ever done.

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Um, prototyping and coming up

with an idea is like the fun part.

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But bringing it to life

through manufacturing is a

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whole different ball game.

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It's, it's really complicated and,

you know, there's relationships that

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you have to kind of deal on a daily

basis and, um, communication is key.

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Um, and yeah, manufacturing can be

quite an interesting field to get into.

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Um, but there's a lot of, you know,

factories and manufacturing, you

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just have to do your research and you

might need to approach quite a few.

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Um, and you might even.

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It starts with a one and it doesn't work

out and you move on to the next one.

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It's not always going to be easy,

especially if you have a unique product.

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Vicki Weinberg: Yeah.

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Thank you for saying that.

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I think it's good to hear.

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And I, I totally agree that finding

a manufacturer can be maybe the

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most daunting part of the process.

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And sometimes, um, not always, but

sometimes the most time consuming because

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it's such an important piece to get right.

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Um, and as you said, there were so

many manufacturers out there and

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there will be one, I think there

will be one that will work well for

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everyone, but it's just finding the.

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Yanika Cordina: Finding the correct

one for your product and also

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like getting the costings, right.

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Um, and where you'd like

to make your products.

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And there's a lot of things to consider.

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But it's one thing that you probably

need to focus on because that's where

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you need to like, set your margins,

um, your production costs and, um,

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what you're going to sell it for and

all the materials on top of that.

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Um, so it's very, very important

when you're launching a product,

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getting the manufacturing right.

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Vicki Weinberg: Absolutely.

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And then could you talk about when

you launched your first product to the

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public and how you went about that?

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Because obviously you were, you

were introducing something very

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new that people hadn't heard about.

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Um, can you talk us through

that a little bit, please?

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Yanika Cordina: Yeah, sure.

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So I, so again, like money was an issue.

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Um, so I didn't have a

huge marketing budget.

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Um, I focused on social media from

the get go and, um, I focused on,

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um, what makes my product different?

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What are the benefits of using my product?

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And I've done a lot of the content

myself, um, and took the photos

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myself and the, the before and afters

and both my family and friends.

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Um, that's kind of like how it starts

and then you progress from there, but

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a few social media, from the get go,

and it's been my focus from the moment

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I launched and all the sales have come

through organically, um, which is amazing.

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And I was also scouted online

by, uh, the BBC to go on

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Dragon's Den, um, on Instagram.

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So Instagram and TikTok social media,

it just been amazing for my business.

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Vicki Weinberg: I think that makes total

sense as well, because your product is

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so, um, it's very visual as in you can

see a before, you can see an after you

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can see the results, which I think is

great for lots of social media platforms

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where, you know, everything is visual and

it's so, um, it's not instant, but you.

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Yeah.

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It's a very easy product to

show my hair looked like this.

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I used a product on my

hair looks like that.

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And I think that's really good.

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And I, I guess there's also lots of

content you can use about how to use it.

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And yeah, that does make sense.

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And it's amazing that it's

all been organic as well.

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Yanika Cordina: Yeah, it's, it's amazing

how much power there is in social media.

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Um, and I've, Instagram was the

very first platform I launched on.

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And, and, you know, it's like

every few years is a new, um,

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social media app starting.

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And I joined TikTok a little

bit later than I should have.

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Um, but once I've joined TikTok.

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Um, the views went up as well there,

so we've officially gone over 100

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million views on, on both TikTok

and Instagram, which is amazing.

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And, um, whenever we go viral, um,

we always sell out, um, which leads

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us to kind of take on pre orders.

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Um, so it's all organically.

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Uh, we haven't had a

budget for advertisement.

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We haven't used any ads at all.

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It's all organic.

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Vicki Weinberg: I do.

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I do really think that's amazing.

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And are you, um, are you, I don't

know, but are you using influencers

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at all to share your products or

is it just people that are buying

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your products, loving your products,

and then talking about it online?

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Yanika Cordina: So that, interesting

you say that, um, because I

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never set a budget aside for,

um, mark, like adverts marketing.

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Um, I never really put a, a,

a, a budget for influencers.

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And when I did look into it, the prices

that the influencers were giving me

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were like in the thousands, and it was

just too much for like a small business.

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It's a, it's a bit risky,

you just don't know if you're

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going to get a return from it.

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Um, so I have, I did not invest in

paying influencers, but influencers

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ended up buying the product anyway

and created free content for me.

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Um, which is amazing.

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It's a different way to see it.

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Like I never invested in influencers,

but they bought it anyway.

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Vicki Weinberg: That is amazing.

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Yeah.

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Well done.

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Because I guess that shows like

the quality of your product,

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that they're choosing to buy

your product and promote it.

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Yanika Cordina: Yeah.

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I mean, it can go either way, isn't it?

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Because I'm not paying

them to create content.

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Um, but it's because it's a trend.

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It's quite trendy and,

um, it looks different.

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It gets people talking.

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Um, so I think the quirkiness

side to it kind of helps.

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Um, so, um, I think that definitely

helps with getting people purchasing.

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Um, and I've always had celebrities

purchasing the hair tools.

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Um, it's just really

interesting how it all evolved.

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Um, but yeah, social media is a

huge part of, uh, Cordina hair.

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Vicki Weinberg: And like you say, though,

I mean, obviously it was a bit more of

424

a risk when people, you know, you're not

gifting the products or paying for it.

425

So people are giving their

very honest opinions.

426

And of course you can't

influence what they're saying.

427

Although I would say from

a consumer point of view.

428

I definitely prefer to

see that type of content.

429

I would much rather someone

say, I use this hair tool.

430

I paid for it with my own money and I

really like it, than when you see the,

431

you know, the ad hashtag and you know

that they're being paid to talk about it.

432

So I think, I think that probably has

helped you in, in other ways as well,

433

because I think we can get a bit cynical

when every other post appears to be

434

sponsored and, um, it's really nice to

see it like kind of organic content.

435

I mean, personally, as a customer,

I much prefer seeing like you

436

know, just real people with their

influences, whoever they are saying,

437

I like, I found this and I liked it.

438

And I'm much more influenced than that

than by someone I know is being paid.

439

And I think a lot of us

are getting like that.

440

So I think it's, yeah.

441

Yanika Cordina: Um, I

feel the same as well.

442

Um, it does, it feels like you're

being sold to all the time, sold

443

to all the time and, um, the

content that we tend to create.

444

Um, I try not to do that, and I

think it worked in our favour.

445

Um, just being helpful, like,

why would you use the product?

446

Um, well, how is it going

to make your life better?

447

Why is it, why, you know, why is

it better than another product?

448

I think the benefits, so how,

how is it going to benefit you?

449

I think that's quite important

rather than trying to sell a product.

450

Um, but yeah, I do get like

the ads a bit, isn't it?

451

You see like commission based, um,

selling products, but we have as

452

well worked with like customers.

453

So anyone who's purchased a

product, um, and they love it.

454

We work with them to, um, so

they can promote the products.

455

So we, we call them brand ambassadors.

456

So, um, and they get like an exclusive

coupon code and whenever someone

457

uses the code they get commissioned

through it, but again, they're kind

458

of managing their own content, um, and

they're already existing customers.

459

So they already love the product.

460

Vicki Weinberg: I think

that's really nice.

461

And as you say, it's about their

existing customers, the people who've

462

chosen to buy it and love it, and

they're choosing to talk about it.

463

And of course they maybe get a

little incentive if they share their

464

code, but you know, they're doing it

because that's what they want to do.

465

And I think that is more powerful

because yeah, I think we're all more

466

likely to buy something if a friend

recommends it or someone you know.

467

So I think that's really,

that's really good.

468

And it shows, I guess, as well,

that you're building up really loyal

469

customers, which is also so important.

470

Yanika Cordina: Yes.

471

I feel like I'm doing things

slightly different from the typical

472

kind of hair and beauty business.

473

And I think that's quite important to me.

474

Um, uh, competition

doesn't really phase me.

475

I want to be in my own path.

476

Um, I don't want to, sometimes I'm

like so focused on what I'm doing.

477

I don't even check what my competitors are

doing, but I feel like that's quite good

478

because you get to do what's true to you.

479

Um.

480

And I do, I enjoy being in my own path.

481

This is what we do and kind of

ignoring what everybody else is doing.

482

Um, and it has worked for us.

483

So, um, being true to

yourself is important.

484

Vicki Weinberg: That's really

refreshing because that's

485

not usually what people say.

486

So that's really, that's

really interesting.

487

And I think that's really good.

488

And I guess it shows also the confidence

you have in your product as well,

489

because I think if you know you have a

good product and you have the belief in

490

that you can do things your way because

you know that what you have is unique.

491

Yanika Cordina: Exactly.

492

I feel you're going to, I

got lots of pushback in the

493

beginning, just so many no's.

494

And, um, before I got into manufacturing,

I was looking into licensing.

495

So manufacturing seemed like, uh, like

an impossible task, is a very, it looks

496

very expensive and all the research that

I was looking into was very expensive.

497

So licensing came up and it was,

um, a good way to get your products

498

out, but having someone else do

the manufacturing side of it, and

499

then you get royalties from it.

500

And I had this meeting with a big

haircare brand and they loved it.

501

So that was my kind of,

uh, first validation.

502

Um, then we were like discussing

licensing deals and eventually

503

they decided not to go ahead.

504

So I got lots of um, pushback, I got

lots of positivity and I'm pushed back

505

and it's like, you know, you have to,

I had to believe in my product so much

506

that I had to make it work somehow.

507

Um, and I think that that has shown

through my journey, um, believing

508

in my, my products and what I do

and doing things differently and not

509

really caring, um, what the norm is.

510

Um, and just doing it my way.

511

Vicki Weinberg: I think

that's really good.

512

And I think part of the reason for

having your own business is that

513

you can do things your own way.

514

So I think it's really good that you've

stuck to that and you're not, you know,

515

trying to do the same as everyone else

and you are doing what works for you.

516

Yanika Cordina: Yes, definitely.

517

So I highly recommend to like, um, look

at what you really enjoy, what you're

518

all about and focusing on your own path.

519

Sometimes when you're comparing, it's

so easy to just feel a bit deflated and,

520

um, almost copying what other people are

doing and people who are on social media.

521

It's like they know what they, what to

expect when they're scrolling through,

522

um, being different makes you stand out.

523

Vicki Weinberg: Thank you.

524

And you mentioned Dragons Den

earlier and I haven't forgotten.

525

I, I didn't write it down, but I put a pin

in my brain to come back to this because

526

you mentioned that you were approached by

the BBC after they saw you on Instagram.

527

So I would love to hear a little bit

about your experience in Dragons Den.

528

Um, you know, what it was like and perhaps

anything you learned from it as well.

529

Yanika Cordina: So Dragon's Den was quite

an interesting, um, journey to go through.

530

It was a very positive experience for me.

531

Um, there was a lot of preparation that

took months to actually go on the show.

532

It was during the pandemic as well.

533

So the actual recording

kept getting delayed.

534

Um, I had a newborn as well.

535

So, uh, it was quite

interesting to handle the two.

536

Um, but, uh, I feel like lots

of preparation we had to go into

537

it and memorizing the financials

was, you know, something that I

538

struggled with because probably

memorizing figures is not my forte.

539

Um, but I did a lot of preparation in

terms of speaking in front of a camera.

540

Um, and, uh, how to breathe properly,

which, um, I, I've struggled with,

541

um, so I think Dragon's Den has really

helped me, um, try, get on to public

542

speaking and getting comfortable in

front of the camera, um, and also be

543

able to like handle, uh, feedback that

you don't necessarily want to hear and

544

be able to respond in a way where it

protects you, your brand and your product,

545

but not being aggressive about it.

546

So there's a lot of, um, things

that I've learned through it.

547

And it's been quite positive as well

in terms of, um, press and media.

548

I've been able to make lots of connections

through Dragon's Den, which has been

549

amazing and been able to land on,

uh, lots of, uh, like news outlets.

550

And, uh, it's been really good overall.

551

Vicki Weinberg: That's very interesting.

552

And do they, um, well, I'll ask

you actually, because for anyone

553

who hasn't watched it, can you

tell us what the outcome was?

554

Because obviously you're episode,

came out a long time now.

555

Yanika Cordina: So I did walk out

with a deal with Sarah Davies and,

556

uh, but a lot of due diligence

takes place after the show.

557

Um, and we decided not

to go ahead in the end.

558

So, um, but I did walk out

with a deal, so that was quite

559

good to kind of walk out there.

560

Um, but I did walk out crying, I think,

um, I think I was just overwhelmed.

561

And I also agreed to give away

half of my business on the show.

562

Which, uh, was shocking to me, um, but

I think, yeah, I felt like I needed

563

to get out there with, with, uh,

with a deal rather than empty handed.

564

And, uh, I think what people don't

realize is like after the show, there's

565

so much due diligence that takes place.

566

Uh, you'd be surprised that most of

the deals don't actually go through.

567

Um, and that's, was one of them.

568

Vicki Weinberg: That's really interesting.

569

But it does sound like overall

it was positive of you that

570

first fights are going through.

571

That sounds, it sounds really good.

572

And in terms of sort of the preparation

and what you have to learn about your

573

business, and do you get support from

the production team on that, or are

574

you on your own to figure it out?

575

Yanika Cordina: I got a lot

of help with the actual setup.

576

So, um, the pitch, they

did see my pitch as well.

577

They kind of help you

out a little bit as well.

578

Um, so they were really helpful.

579

I think, you know, they have, um,

they want you to look a certain way,

580

they want your stand to look a certain

way, so they definitely help you out

581

throughout the process, which was quite

interesting, but it just dragged for

582

months for me because of the pandemic.

583

Um, I don't know how long it usually

takes, but mine was like, um,

584

about, about seven, eight months of

preparation, which is a long time.

585

Vicki Weinberg: Yes, I'm trying to think

because I had another guest on who was

586

on Dragon's Den and I'm trying to think

whether their process was that long.

587

And I want to say no, although I

do know it was a long time between

588

recording and then actually being shown.

589

Yanika Cordina: Yeah.

590

Yeah.

591

Um, so they approached me in January and

I think I went on the show, uh, so it went

592

live in October, so that's like 10 months.

593

Vicki Weinberg: Um, yeah,

that's quite a long time.

594

And of course you can't talk

about it in between then, can you?

595

Because you can't talk of.

596

Yanika Cordina: No, it's all a secret.

597

Vicki Weinberg: What happens.

598

Oh, well, I'm glad it was a

positive experience and as you said,

599

you've managed to get press and

things off the back of it as well.

600

So it, I guess, I guess it continues to

be, um, really worthwhile having done.

601

Yanika Cordina: Thank you.

602

Yes, it's been, it's been positive.

603

Um, and I do recommend it.

604

You get your product out there.

605

You get your name out there.

606

And, uh, I mean, Sarah liked it.

607

Um, so you get like validation as well.

608

If you're, I was quite

early on in my journey.

609

So I just launched.

610

And I was definitely in the

first stages of my business.

611

I probably went there too early.

612

Um, but I felt, I felt like I needed

more validation at that point.

613

Um, and I, I got it.

614

And then like two months after I went on

the show, um, I had my first viral video.

615

Um, and that we got, we had a, we

sold out and then that's how it kind

616

of started with my first viral video

and then it continued from there.

617

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah.

618

And you mentioned then about selling out

and something I, we spoke about before we

619

started recording was the fact that quite

often you're in a position where you need

620

to take pre orders for your products.

621

And I was explaining, I think that's

really like a smart way of doing things

622

because you can continue to take orders.

623

Um, is that a deliberate decision you took

or is that impacted by the stock and how

624

quickly the manufacturing process takes.

625

As in, yeah.

626

Was that a decision you'd made

or have you made that decision

627

based on the circumstances?

628

Yanika Cordina: So it's

interesting you ask that.

629

So the first video that went viral, um,

we, I had so many orders that I went into

630

panic mode and the orders kept coming

in and I didn't know how to handle them.

631

So I closed the store, um, after like a

certain amount, and that was a very poor

632

decision that I made and from then on,

I thought pre orders is the way to go.

633

Um, so definitely I sell out all the time.

634

If a video goes viral, the

products just sell out and then

635

the pre order button goes on.

636

Um, that's just standard now and orders

still come in and you'd be surprised.

637

People are willing to wait.

638

Um, we, we have thousands

of orders on pre orders.

639

And people are willing to wait.

640

Maybe you get three, five

people cancelling because they

641

don't want to wait anymore.

642

But, um, people are willing to wait,

they, they pay up front and as long

643

as you keep them updated with the

timelines, um, when they should expect

644

the product, um, then I don't see any

issues with taking pre orders at all.

645

Vicki Weinberg: That's really interesting.

646

Thank you for sharing that because

my impression when I went to your

647

site and I saw that you were taking

pre orders was, wow, this is, you

648

know, so popular and it, I, I felt

that it was a really positive thing.

649

And obviously you can see I have curly

hair, but if I was, you know, looking

650

for one, I feel like the fact that it

was on pre order would possibly entice

651

me to buy it more because I think, oh

gosh, if I don't order soon, maybe they'll

652

all, you know, maybe I won't get one.

653

And I think it's, I

think it's really smart.

654

And as you say, it keeps orders

coming in, keeps the money coming in.

655

Um, yeah, I, and that's why I was curious

about how it came about because a lot of

656

sites that I see don't seem to do that.

657

You can maybe be notified

when something comes in stock.

658

Um, but I actually really

liked the pre order.

659

And I assume that from like

a technical point of view is

660

something that's easy to set up?

661

Yanika Cordina: Yeah.

662

Um, I think the site that, the server

that I use, they have, uh, recently uh,

663

launched like a pre-order button, which

is something I've asked them to do.

664

And in the beginning that wasn't

there, but I put as much information

665

on the site as possible so people

know that they are pre ordering.

666

But I think there are, like, uh, things

in place with, like, website service to

667

be able to have, like, a pre order button.

668

Um, yeah, definitely, like, why would

you want to stop the money coming in?

669

I think when I did that, um, there

was a huge dip in sales and obviously

670

the money stopped coming in.

671

Um, and I, I said to myself,

I would never do that again.

672

And pre orders helps, you know, keep

the momentum going, the money coming in.

673

Um, and you know, exactly as well, how

many orders are coming in and what to

674

expect if you need to up the stock levels.

675

Pre orders is a great way to kind

of guide you, um, on the numbers.

676

Um, I'm hope we keep putting the

stock levels up and then exceed that.

677

Um, but I think pre orders help

you predict numbers as well.

678

Vicki Weinberg: That's a really good

point because especially as I mean, I'm

679

not going to ask what your production

times are, but especially when you have

680

a production time, it can be really

hard to predict how many you need to

681

cover the next period, whether it's

the next quarter or the next weeks

682

or months, that can be really tricky.

683

And it's easy to over

over order or under order.

684

So I guess, as you say, having pre

orders just helps you give you an idea

685

of what kind of levels you're looking at.

686

Yanika Cordina: It's

still quite difficult.

687

Like we haven't, uh, every time we put

the the product stock levels up, um, we

688

think it's enough and then we exceed that

and then we're back to preorders again.

689

Like, in my ideal world, I

don't want to put preorder on.

690

I want the stock to be there and people

can purchase and, you know, they have

691

the product, um, but predicting stock

levels can be a really difficult

692

task, especially when you're growing.

693

You just don't know, um, you

know, when a viral video is, is

694

gaining momentum online, you just

don't know like how much, how many

695

sales you're going to get from it.

696

Sometimes you might get X amount.

697

And the next time you, you get a

viral video might get more or less.

698

So it can vary.

699

Um, I guess that's the, you know, the

nature of organic content going viral.

700

You just don't know exactly

how much, um, how many orders

701

you're going to get from that.

702

Vicki Weinberg: That's a really good

point actually, because if you were

703

running paid advertising, or you were

working with a certain influencer, you

704

could probably predict there'll be a

spike because this promotion is going

705

on or this ad's getting turned on, but

when it's purely organic, you're right,

706

you, I guess there's no way of knowing

what's going to go viral because I

707

don't think any of us can predict that.

708

Yanika Cordina: Yeah.

709

Yeah.

710

Um, I mean, it's worked

for us, but it fluctuates.

711

So the last video that went really viral.

712

This has been the best viral video ever.

713

Um, and I thought the previous one was

amazing and this one was even better.

714

So it's, it's an interesting one.

715

You think, you know your numbers and

you don't, um, until you, you sell out.

716

So, um, I think knowing your stock

levels is just an ongoing thing and,

717

and you have to adjust as you go along.

718

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah.

719

That makes sense.

720

Thank you.

721

And you mentioned earlier, of

course, that your business is

722

growing and continues to grow.

723

So how has, um, and from the outside, it

looks like quite rapid growth as well.

724

I don't know whether that's the

reality, but that's, you know, how

725

it appears, um, how has that changed

you and how you run your business,

726

um, as it is you know, growing.

727

It's only been a few years really

since you launched and it feels

728

like you've done a lot in that time.

729

Yanika Cordina: It's been

a long, wild journey.

730

Um, it hasn't gone crazy overnight,

like this has taken years.

731

732

and, uh, it went viral like two

months after going on Dragon's Den.

733

So it's.

734

It's been, it wasn't an

overnight thing, um, not at all.

735

It has taken me a long time to

actually get to where I am now.

736

And, you know, we're still growing, we're

still quite a small business really.

737

Um, but, you know, it's

not an overnight thing.

738

I feel like Instagram as well.

739

Um, We've reached now about, I can't

remember how many followers, but over 60k.

740

Um, that's like not a lot compared

to these bigger brands, but it

741

has taken me years to get to that.

742

Um, but you know, you don't have,

you don't have to have a huge

743

following to make money online.

744

Um, And I'm proof really, I

don't have like a huge following.

745

Vicki Weinberg: That's really interesting.

746

I like, you know, you've been very honest

about the fact that it hasn't been rapid.

747

I think that that's often

a misconception, isn't it?

748

When someone comes on your radar new, it

can feel like they've come out of nowhere

749

because of course you don't know about

the years when you didn't know about them

750

when they were a smaller brand and didn't

have the followers, weren't as well known.

751

I think, so I think it's, it's, yeah,

it's quite a common thing to think, oh,

752

you've, you know, you've grown so quickly.

753

Um, although I will say though, I

still think five years is actually

754

relatively short amount of time

to get to where you've got to.

755

So I do, I do think it's very impressive.

756

Yanika Cordina: Oh, thank you so much.

757

Appreciate it.

758

But people didn't get to see

me prototyping in my shed.

759

And then going to pet sitting, I

was doing pet sitting as my little

760

side hustle to get extra money.

761

Um, you know, it was, it was

really hard in the beginning, um,

762

and launching as well to nobody.

763

You're launching to your friends and

your family right in the beginning and

764

then trying to get people to see you,

it's, the beginning is really hard.

765

Vicki Weinberg: It is, but I think it's

really interesting and really useful for

766

other people to hear that you were in

that position, you know, when you first

767

launched that you didn't have a big

following and like you say, felt like

768

you were launching to nobody, because

I think that's all of us, or at least

769

most of us with a first product, it

does feel like, is anybody out there?

770

Does anyone know I exist?

771

So I do think it's, it is inspirational

to know that, okay, if you, okay, it

772

might be more than a few years, but

you know, it's not that long to, you

773

know, have the following that you have

and, you know, selling out regularly.

774

So I do still think it is an achievement

and it is inspirational because I think it

775

can be very easy in the early days to feel

like you're constantly talking to nobody

776

that you're not on anyone's radar, the

sales aren't where you want them to be.

777

And it can be tough those first few years

because you don't know how long it will

778

be until you start to see things grow.

779

And it can be quite a few years

until people start noticing you.

780

I think a good, uh, kind of little story

that happened to me when I first launched,

781

um, I launched a product and I put like a

code on it so people can get it like, uh,

782

like discounted and I put the code wrong.

783

And I, the product was a penny.

784

And someone said to me, like a

friend said, do you know that your

785

product is being sold for a penny?

786

I'm like, what?

787

And I looked at it and nobody bought

it because nobody knew about it.

788

Nobody saw it.

789

So marketing is, is, you know,

what's going to sell your products.

790

And even if you think you're not

selling it, like nobody's seeing

791

it, you need to keep at it.

792

Like that meant to me that there

were no, nobody looking at it.

793

Nobody knew about it.

794

Um, and that's why there were no sales.

795

But I like what you said there about

that really makes sense about sort of

796

keeping on, on there, because I think it

is the consistency that helps with growth

797

because you know, you've mentioned that

all you've been doing is social media,

798

nothing paid or organic social media.

799

But I think that where you've seen

the growth in, I would guess is that

800

you've been consistently promoting your

products on social media over the years.

801

Because I think there's nothing more

frustrating than when someone posts a

802

little bit, stops, goes away for six

months, comes back and then every time

803

it's like, you're starting from scratch.

804

And I think there's a lot to be said

from just showing up and talking

805

about your products consistently.

806

And I'm sure that helps with the

algorithms, with people seeing

807

you and just with people also

having faith in you, that you're

808

there and you're not going away.

809

If that makes sense?

810

Like you are a real business, your,

yeah, I think that really helps because

811

sometimes, yeah, I think it doesn't

always look as good if, if you're very

812

patchy with when, when, or how you're

showing up, you know, if you go to

813

a website and you can see it hasn't

814

think, okay, they're still in business.

815

You lose your trust in someone.

816

Yanika Cordina: Um, but yeah, I feel like

I have been consistent, um, what, and good

817

point about like, if you take a break.

818

Your Instagram takes your, your

social media takes a break.

819

So you do see a bit of a dip in

your engagement and you almost

820

need to start again, every

time you take a bit of a break.

821

And we, I did that when, um, the video

went crazy and we had lots of sales

822

from it, and we had to take a step

back from social media to catch up.

823

Um.

824

And I noticed immediately like, um, you

know, a dip in, in engagement and also,

825

uh, new, um, buttons to create a video.

826

So I was like, oh my gosh, I

have to relearn how to upload

827

a video here or edit it.

828

It's amazing how quickly

social media moves.

829

There's like lots of new

things that they're constantly,

830

um, adding to the apps.

831

So, um, took a bit of a break and all

of a sudden the, the buttons moved.

832

And I had to re learn how to post again.

833

It's just interesting that once you

take that bit of a break, it can be

834

quite daunting to start again as well.

835

Um, and you know, sometimes a social

media break is, is it helps, uh, but maybe

836

having help with that, someone who enjoys

posting on social media for you, for

837

your business that could help keep the,

um, the posts up and the momentum going.

838

So you keep the algorithm in your favour.

839

Vicki Weinberg: That's really good

advice, or even scheduling posts to

840

cover the time you're not around.

841

I think you're right though.

842

It's, it's always harder to start

again, almost harder than it

843

is to start in the first place.

844

Because we were talking before we

recorded, weren't we, about Amazon and

845

how every time you go out of stock, it

feels like you're starting again because

846

you have to again, start getting people

to notice you and know you're there.

847

And I think it's, that applies to so many

things where, um, and it's a shame in a

848

way because we should all be allowed to

take a break and step away from things.

849

But it feels like when you do that,

you have to consider, am I willing

850

to then start afresh afterwards.

851

Yanika Cordina: Yeah, I find it a little

bit daunting because things move about

852

within the app and you have to relearn

certain elements of the app again.

853

But what we do here is we

schedule quite a lot of content.

854

So in advance, and I try to schedule

content at least a month in advance.

855

So if I need to take a break, I can

and the content is still going out.

856

Um, and I think that's, uh, that's, uh,

something that I probably recommend.

857

So you're not constantly, you

know, on social media waiting

858

for a certain time to post.

859

It can be done automatically.

860

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah.

861

That makes sense.

862

And thank you so much for everything

you've shared with us this afternoon.

863

Well, it might not be the afternoon for

people listening, but thank you so much

864

for all you shared with me this afternoon.

865

Um, it's been really fascinating

to hear about your journey and

866

all the advice you've given.

867

And I have one more question before we

finish, if that's okay, which is what

868

would your number one piece of advice be?

869

Your top tip for other product creators?

870

Yanika Cordina: I think when it

comes to product development,

871

you have to be patient.

872

You must be patient, and you must be

able to persevere through the ups and

873

downs, um, of developing a product.

874

Uh, you're going to get a lot of

pushback, um, and knows, but if you

875

believe in your idea, nothing should

stop you from actually making it happen.

876

Um, I also think that if money is

an issue, which it is for many when

877

you're just starting out or you're

starting a new product, you will find

878

ways to make it work like I did, um,

you know, you find more efficient

879

ways to actually make it happen.

880

You don't have to spend a lot of

money to, to bring a product to life.

881

Um, you'd be, you'd be amazed at how you

can be creative around it and spend less

882

and still be able to launch a product.

883

Vicki Weinberg: That's really interesting.

884

Thank you.

885

And I totally agree with you.

886

I think there are the areas you need to

spend money, but there are definitely

887

ways of cutting back in others, especially

at the beginning when you don't, very

888

unlikely to have the money for everything.

889

I think sometimes you have to know that

it's better to get it done and you can

890

improve as you go forward, as you said,

I think if you have the idea and you're

891

passionate about it, then yeah, I think

moving ahead with it is really important.

892

Yanika Cordina: And I think if

you have like a lot of money just

893

sitting there, you, you, and you

want to spend it, you will spend it.

894

You'll find lots of ways to

spend it and it goes fast.

895

So I feel like when money is a bit

limited then you're going to be clever

896

about it, you're going to be really like

thinking where each pound is going to go.

897

Um, so I think it shouldn't work

against you, uh, it should work like

898

really well for you if money is a bit

of an issue, you can be creative and

899

around it and still make it happen.

900

Vicki Weinberg: That's really good advice.

901

Thank you so much.

902

Yanika Cordina: Thank you, Vicki.

903

I've really enjoyed this.

904

Thank you so much for listening

right to the end of this episode.

905

Do remember that you can get the

full back catalogue and lots of free

906

resources on my website, vickiweinberg.

907

com.

908

Please do remember to rate and review

this episode if you've enjoyed it

909

and also share it with a friend

who you think might find it useful.

910

Thank you again and see you next week.