All about shipping & logistics for ecommerce – Sam Anderson

Vicki Weinberg: 00:00:01

Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea to Life podcast. This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products, or if you'd like to create your own product to sell. I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly, practical advice, as well as inspirational stories from small businesses. Let's get started. Hello, it has definitely been a few years since we did an episode all about logistics. And today I'm delighted to have Sam Anderson on the podcast. So Sam is from Order Fulfillment Experts and she gives e commerce businesses peace of mind and frees up their time so they can focus on the bigger things. So what Sam's company does is anything logistical for your business. So her company works on fulfillment, on shipping, on Amazon prep, all kinds of other things. And Sam was really generous with her time. She, I had so many questions about the logistics, um, of running a products business, when it's a good time to outsource, how do you outsource? What kind of things can you get somebody to do for you? Um, and she has some really, really great advice and tips. As well, as well as some advice on about the common mistakes she sees people make. Um, and we talk about all of this in a lot of detail. This is a really actionable episode and however you manage your storage and fulfillment now, I definitely think you're going to learn something from this. So I would love now to introduce you to Sam. So hi, Sam. Thank you so much for being here.

Sam Anderson: 00:01:30

Thank you so much for having me.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:01:32

No problem. Can we start with you? Please give an introduction to yourself, your business and what you do.

Sam Anderson: 00:01:38

Of course, so my name's Sam Anderson, and I'm the founder of a company called Order Fulfillment Expert. And basically, um, we are the logistics part of e commerce. So, um, we pick, pack and post online orders, not just direct to consumer, but also to retailers and wholesalers. We store the stock here. And as orders come through, um, we're an outsourced logistics department, if you like, for our e commerce business owners. And they, we then obviously, distribute their products.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:02:15

That's brilliant. Thank you. And it sounds well, you do an awful, you do an awful lot there and do you work with businesses of all sizes? So do you work with really small businesses as well as the larger ones?

Sam Anderson: 00:02:27

Yes, I mean, we are a small fulfillment house as they, as fulfillment houses go in the sense that, um, you know, we're not Amazon esque, point of phrase. Um, so the sorts of customers that we have range from, you know, a handful of orders going out daily up to about sort of 350 to 500 orders a day. Um, and, um, we do, we, unlike other fulfillment houses, you know, we don't have that minimum spend or minimum amount of racking or number of orders that need to go out. So. When I set the business up over 10 years ago now, um, we very much focused on the army of home based business owners who were perhaps, you know, bubble wrap all over the kitchen table or in the garage. They had everything racked out and they were getting to that painful stage of, oh, I'm not working on my business, I'm working in it. And that's when, um, we would normally step in and take, take, take over the fulfillment for them. So, um, but yeah. We, we really do work with a really eclectic mix of different e commerce business owners.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:03:39

That was really useful, Sam. Thank you for that. When you just said that about people working in their businesses and not on their business, that leads in really nicely to what I wanted to ask you about, which is if someone's listening and they're thinking, oh, I might like to outsource my fulfillment and maybe, you know, then right at the beginning of the journey, what's a. Why are some reasons that people might want to outsource it first of all? And I think you've just touched on one there, which is when you're just spending all of your time, um, packing rather than creating or marketing and all of the other things. And what are some of the, yeah, what are some of the benefits of outsourcing it?

Sam Anderson: 00:04:14

So, um, it is important to actually make that decision at the right time. And that's why your question is such a good one, because we have had customers come to us at the wrong time. We've had customers, and maybe, um, by answering the wrong time to come to us, that will help sort of narrow down the right time because, um, we have had customers come to us when they haven't even really launched their products. And, um, they have great plans and they think it's all going to, they've spent an awful lot of life savings perhaps on, on product and marketing and things like that, but they haven't road tested it and they haven't actually been there and done that and got the t shirt before they then know it's time to outsource. So. I think really it is very much that it's a tried and tested business concept. You know it works, you know you've got the margin to, um, allow for someone else to fulfill it for you, it doesn't mean it's a. It doesn't necessarily mean, sorry, that it costs an awful lot to outsource. It just means that, you know, uh, you do perhaps need to think about building in that infrastructure in terms of costs to your business when you're looking to become scalable. If you always plan to stay small and just do it yourself. Then obviously, that's a completely different ball game. But if you do plan to scale the business, you do need to build in those infrastructure costs to be able to do that. And so anything that's been tried and tested, you know, the concept worked, you know, you've got a market for it and you can see the orders going out yourself. And you've already established the things that don't work perhaps a little bit and how to pack things and how, what returns policy you need and, um, what, how you like things done in terms of the presentation of the parcel to the customer and what distribution channels you'd want to use. then, then that is normally a really good time to move it over. Um, because you know that obviously the business can afford to outsource it and it will also then take it to that next level in terms of growth and scalability.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:06:29

Thank you so much for explaining that. I think that's really useful and I particularly liked what you said about thinking about building in, you know, into your margins, the cost of the fulfillment, because of course, if you're using a fulfillment center as a cost involved, because it often surprises me that when businesses start to sell their products on Amazon, which is what I specialize in, and we'll talk about that a bit more later, they will often say to me, okay, what do Amazon charge for, for, you know, what are their storage fees, what are their shipping fees? Because they want to build that into their margins. Um, and I often say, well, how are you fulfilling your orders now? Because actually there's not often a huge difference in terms of the costs. And I feel like, yeah, I'm often quite surprised when we get to that stage and they say, oh, I need to build that in. And I think, oh, I'm often surprised they haven't built that in already. Assuming they've had a product that they've been selling, whether they've been taking it to the post office or using a fulfillment house. Yes. I think that's a really good thing to think about. I think at the beginning of your journey with your products, however you're going to fulfill it. Not just when you get to the stage of thinking about getting someone to help with that.

Sam Anderson: 00:07:34

Absolutely. And I think it also boils down to the value of your time, how you value your time. If you value your time at 50 an hour and you're sticking stamps on things, that's not effective use.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:07:49

Yeah, that's a really good, that's a really good point. And are there any other benefits to outsourcing your fulfilment other than, other than the time, would you say?

Sam Anderson: 00:08:00

So, um, invariably it can in fact save quite a bit of money as well. It really does depend on each individual business as to how much money it can save. But obviously a fulfillment house generally would have, um, economies of scale by sending out through all the various, uh, courier networks as well as Royal Mail, which means that, um, postage and couriers tend to be less expensive, um, packaging bought in in bulk, and then also obviously, uh, I mean, the fulfillment houses, bread and butter is going to be, uh, the actual time they spend doing the actual fulfillment, and they will make a little markup on the postage, they'll make a little markup on the packaging, and then, uh, the storage, and any goods in or stock checks and things that you get asked to do. So, but, um, generally, they're getting economies of scale, which means that even if you do outsource it, you possibly pay less than you are now anyway, um, but particularly when you factor in the cost of your time, um, because, uh, obviously, um, that that's probably going to be the biggest difference in it and yeah, that's really helpful.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:09:16

Thank you. And one thing that you're not, you're not saying and possibly because you're being very modest or maybe this is something that's unique to me is that when I had my products business, one benefit that I found when I outsourced the fulfillment is it all looked nicer. So everything was just packaged a bit better than when I was doing it. So I do think that's, you know, not for everyone. Because some people have that gift don't they, being able to package an order. Sometimes I buy things on Etsy and it's all packaged and it's beautiful. And I don't have that skill. So for me, that was definitely a huge one is I just felt like the experience the customer was getting was so much nicer, um, when I was paying somebody else to do that. And of course they did it to the requirements that I had, but yeah, I think that was something huge. And that's something else I wanted to talk to you about, because I know that one thing you can do is you don't just put every order in a, in a box, do you? And put it in the post. So can we talk a little bit about some of the things that you can do to personalize customer experience and why businesses might want to consider how they package up their products.

Sam Anderson: 00:10:21

Absolutely. Yes, of course. So, um, and that was a really good point, uh, uh, about things looking better when they do arrive and also being able to make sure that, uh, order stay pace and they go out in a really quick, timely fashion. Um, that's also obviously when you're doing it yourself, sometimes you just think, oh, I can't be bothered to go to the post office today, or I have missed in my collection or what have you. Whereas of course, the perception from a customer will be a lot greater if you are making sure those orders are going out all the time in terms of bespoke, um, packaging and so that it really stands out for your customer base in terms of what you're delivering in. We do get asked to do all sorts of different things. So whether some of them are to make it look as though it's gone through a fantasy postal system. Um, and, uh, that's really quite fun. So we've got, uh, um, uh, Terry Pratchett's legacy stuff in the Discworld. And we're sending out, um, things that make it look as though it's gone through a completely fantastical postal system that he's written about in one of his books. Other things can be, uh, we've got a customer who works in quite a competitive industry actually, but they've differentiated themselves by creating, um, thought runs of exclusive artwork on large postcards and then also including, um, retro sweets into their packaging. And so they're then actually becoming the preferred supplier, despite the competition in the market because they're adding this extra value and people are now wanting to collect the pieces of artwork, which is lovely. So no matter what industry you're in, you can always set yourself apart by really offering, just thinking through an additional element to what you're trying to deliver and trying to put a smile on that customer's face when they get it.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:12:22

That's really interesting. And I love that Terry Pratchett example you gave. That sounds really fun. I'm tempted to buy something now just to see how it arrives. And um, so is that something that a fulfillment center can do for you then if, if you have requirement. I mean, I know, I know you can't speak for everyone, but certainly something it's not. If a customer came to you and said, I want you to put this in the packaging and tie a bow and whatever, you know, whatever it is, put a card in. Is that, is that all things you're happy to do?

Sam Anderson: 00:12:52

Absolutely. In fact, that's mostly why people come to us because we don't try to compete with the big boys out there. Let's say, um, we are very much.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:13:05

Oh, for some reason I can't hear you anymore.

Sam Anderson: 00:13:09

Oh no, I'm so sorry. I don't know, I haven't touched anything. Can you hear me now?

Vicki Weinberg: 00:13:14

I can. Um, tell you what, just, um. I'll start that answer again. I'm really sorry. If you start that answer again and I'll just take a note down of the time, I'm really sorry.

Sam Anderson: 00:13:26

No, that's absolutely fine. Um, so let me just, um, uh, cast my mind back to exactly what I was saying.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:13:34

You were saying that's the reason that, um, a lot of customers come to you. So probably if you start, if you start there, if that's okay.

Sam Anderson: 00:13:41

Yeah, of course. Yes, well, that's actually why quite a lot of customers would come to us because they want a bespoke service and unlike the larger fulfillment houses out there who are entirely systems led and perhaps will say, this is how we work. You have to fit in with that. We ask our customers, what would you like? And we will fit in with that. Obviously, we do have to have a degree of it, uh, system systematization. But in parallel with that, we also can do very much more bespoke things for our customers. So, um, I'm not saying that there aren't other fulfillment houses out there that won't do bespoke, but that's our niche. That's really where we sit, is where customers would like something a little bit out of the ordinary and or to deal with the business owner. And we also have like a buddy team that manage the portfolio of customers and they're on WhatsApp with their customers all the time. So it's that added customer service as well as, as opposed to just having to raise a ticket, for example, be able to speak to one. So, um, but yeah, the bespoke side of it is definitely, um, something that's growing in the market as well. Uh, e commerce businesses stand out from the crowd.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:15:04

Yeah. That's really nice that you can offer that personal touch because you're right that it's, it's quite, I think it's quite rare to get that. And I think it's really nice that you can offer that personal service to customers by offering the bespoke packaging of a product, but also that you have that relationship with customers as well, because I feel it can be hard. I think this can be a hard thing to outsource in the sense of you don't have that control, you know, because I'm, I'm sure that it's important to your customers that things are packaged in a certain way and they're presented as they need to be presented. So I think it could, I can see it being quite a hard thing to hand over to somebody, especially if you've been doing it yourself and you know, you've been doing it as you want and you've been doing it really well. I can see that that's another hurdle to get over as well.

Sam Anderson: 00:15:49

Very much so. It's that psychological hurdle of having to let go to be able to scale the business. And it's a really tough one, really hard. And, um, everyone that I speak to in their heads, they know they have to do it. But their heart is struggling a little bit to take their business to the next stage. Um, so we're very familiar with that sort of internal struggle our customers might have when they're initially wanting to come on board with us, which is why, you know, we try and do as much as we can to make them comfortable. We have an open doors policy. We have a live Google meet running all day. Every day they can jump on, we have open WhatsApp groups dedicated with their buddy teams and I'm in on, so that they can communicate with us whenever they like. And obviously our systems and processes and things they've got full access to and they get their full reports as to what's done. We'll even sort of video things and photograph them and send them through on the WhatsApp group so they can see their products as they come in and make sure they're happy with how it was delivered in from their supplier and all those sorts of things. So, um, yes, it's, um, it's really just building that trust so that they know that we will care about it. Um, so that they know that, um, yeah, it's looked after.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:17:08

Well, thank you for explaining all of that. And it sounds like you do an awful lot. Um, and we mentioned right, you mentioned right at the beginning that as well as doing B2B fulfillment from customers websites and eBay and other marketplaces, you also do some B2C fulfillment for wholesale orders and things like that. Um, I would really like to know. Um, from your perspective, what the difference are between fulfilling B two B and B two C orders, and whether that's, you know, whether you're doing it yourself or whether you are outsourcing it, is there anything that people need to be aware of, I guess particularly if you're moving from solely B to B to B to C?

Sam Anderson: 00:17:45

Yes. So, um, B to C tends to require a lot more, just in time, approach to everything because you would need to make sure the orders you get in that day go out that day, so the customer receives them the next day. Unlike with B2B, where if it's a retailer expecting something or a wholesaler, you generally have a slot that you need to deliver in on and a timed delivery. So you've got, you know, your, your, your, your actual diary and your forecast projections in terms of, um, product that needs to go in and you can watch how it's being sold and therefore plan accordingly. With B2C it can be a lot more volatile. You could maybe have an advert that goes out in a newspaper and suddenly you're absolutely deluged with orders that you weren't anticipating. So, it does have a very different sort of approach in the sense that you have to sort of contingency plan more, I would say, and build in stock and resources to be able to handle the peaks and troughs that can occur, not just seasonally, but perhaps, you know, as I mentioned, if an influencer then, uh, gets, mentions a product and or it goes out on the media somewhere, that can have a direct and of course it's so important when that happens to make sure you respond really well, because otherwise it kind of does you a disservice if you don't. So, um, yes, B2C is a lot more dynamic than B2B I would say in terms of like needing to really make sure that everything is kept, um, everything goes out same day, really.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:19:34

That sounds, yeah. Thank you so much for explaining it. I'm thinking, well, I hadn't actually thought about it at that level of detail, but it sounds like stock management is so, so key here, particularly if you're running both B2B and B2C, well, whichever, I guess. Um, uh, we haven't even touched on stock, Sam. What do you do in terms of helping customers manage their stock?

Sam Anderson: 00:19:57

Well, funnily enough, we encourage them not to have too much. Having said what I've just said, that seems a bit sort of counterintuitive. However, as you probably know, Amazon only really want to hold about 90 days worth of stock. And there's a good reason for that because obviously it allows for any seasonal peaks and troughs. It means that the things are turning over in their warehouses and they've not got stocks on shelves gathering dust that isn't moving. And I think it's a really good lesson that we can apply to all of our e commerce businesses because, um, it really doesn't make sense, especially for a smaller and growing e commerce business to overstock, simply because. Obviously, you're paying so much for the stock, but also then the storage space, and if you're not sure how quickly you're going to sell it, you can end up, you know, the whole cost of that stock, including the extended storage, can actually sort of skew your, your, your margins and your business model. The 90 days is a pretty good starting point, and obviously it's not an exact science because you cannot take into account, you know, unprecedented, uh, peaks and troughs. However, um, I do think that, um, it's one of the metrics I look at is the yield of my racks, and it's a good metric that e commerce business owners could look at as well in terms of the amount of base you've got, how much is actually coming in and going out and actually turning, because that's what you want. You don't want bucket loads of stock. You want a really high yield on the amount of orders you've got going out for the amount of storage space that you require. And that's the sign of a really healthy business, e commerce business. And if you start to notice you've got more coming in than going out and you're having to increase your storage all the time, that's a really good sort of alarm signal to look at why is that happening? What do we need to do to fix that? Um, because having bucket loads of stock isn't necessarily, you know, the most sensible thing to do.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:22:17

That's so helpful, thank you. And it sounds, I like the 90 days or whatever it is, because I guess that might depend based on the business and how long, like production takes, for example, but I think it makes total sense to think ahead and think, okay, how much stock am I likely to need for the next quarter, let's say, and plan accordingly. Because you're right in the, obviously quarter four, hopefully everyone will be selling. We hope everyone's going to be selling more and might need a bit more stock. And then there were certainly, especially if you sell a seasonal product, there can be times of the year where things are a bit slower and you maybe don't need to be holding as much. So I think that's, I think that's a really good reminder to sort of plan stock rather than be, to be maybe proactive rather than reactive where possible. Um, because I, I definitely see, and I'm sure you do too, um, where, you know, a certain product gets, gets sold out and then there's a wait for more to come in, which isn't always a bad thing, especially if you can take pre orders. I mean, that can be, you know, that can be great to get the money in and also to build up a bit of excitement. that way. Equally, it can be quite stressful, can't it, for business owners when they're, when, you know, you're constantly trying to work out how much of everything you have and how long it will last and when you need to be ordering in and things like that.

Sam Anderson: 00:23:32

Yes, definitely. And we saw actually doing, um, uh, you know, the supplier issues when, uh, you know, with, with COVID that people then moved their suppliers to closer to home because although they weren't, um, you know, that necessarily as cheap as buying it in from the Far East, actually, when they looked at the whole cost of it, uh, including delivery and landed into the warehouse, plus the fact they didn't need as bigger production runs. It actually made more sense from a business strategy standpoint to do it that way, than wait for a couple of containers stuck in the Suez Canal, for example, that then arrived and bit out of season, um, which is obviously worst case scenario. But, um, uh, yes, there are some amazing, um, the technology available nowadays to be able to forecast and report on historical data based on your, your orders and your stock movements is really fantastic. Um, so it is becoming easier, but as you say, it's not easy and also, especially if you're in the early days of your business and you haven't got any sort of historical data in terms of your stock movements and orders to, to look back on projecting into the future is that much more difficult, but, um, it does get easier with time, very much so.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:25:03

That's really reassuring. Thank you. While we're talking about some of these unexpected things that happen, so the Suez Canal was a really good example of something that nobody, I mean, maybe some people, but most of us didn't foresee and took a lot of people by surprise. And then obviously COVID. Um, but let's talk about some of the more common things that I said, when I say unexpected, um, perhaps people haven't planned for, so for example, I think it was last year, there were quite a few Royal Mail strikes. Um, do businesses need to think about having a contingency plan in case things come up? Is that something you recommend? And do you have any other advice about what small businesses can do when some of these things come up, that really put a spanner in the works?

Sam Anderson: 00:25:46

Yes, I mean, I do know a number of businesses that really struggled during the Royal Mail strikes, and, um, it, it, it was, it was dreadful to see, and I think it has made everyone within the industry, um, contingency plan much more than they ever did, because you realize that how reliant people are, but it was also a mindset thing, I think, because the general public realized Royal Mail was on strike, they thought, well, I've been, not ordering anything. I'll go to the shops instead. So it's all about communicating with the customer and saying, look, I know that the strikes are on, but we can get stuff to you anyway, we've got these other, uh, distribution, um, methods. So, obviously, we were sending everything out by courier instead of Royal Mail, and, um, I think everything was getting through the system, but we did notice just because of public perception that they might not get their orders in time for Christmas, that the orders dropped off anyway because they thought, well, I can't take the risk. So, it's all about communicating with your customer and saying, look, we can still get this to you. In fact, you'll get a better delivery service because it's coming by courier, um, and, um, yes, being, being, yeah. It's one of the ones that obviously has happened in the past, but I don't think anyone really foresaw it really coming in, in the run up to Christmas, which is when everyone in the industry, you know, builds up their bank account. And, you know, season through maybe quieter periods in the year. So it was, um, it really was devastating for some e commerce businesses. We know that. Um, and the, uh, other thing I've noticed is that people have moved away from using Royal Mail entirely in some instances, and are starting to use, uh, private courier networks as opposed to Royal Mail, um, so that, uh, they, they aren't beholden to them so much.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:27:46

Well, that makes total sense. I think, especially when you, if you have been burnt, let's say, I can definitely see that you might think of, okay, how are we going to do things differently going forward? And that makes sense. It sounds like having some sort of contingency in place, if you're doing your own fulfilment, especially is important, just thinking for, okay, should this happen? Again, what would I do? If it's okay Sam, I'd love to change the subject, um, entirely actually, and talk a little bit about Amazon. Um, because as you know, that's something that I specialize in and, um, Amazon fulfillment can be tricky. Um, because we've, we've, we've kind of spoken about, um, sort of how you might fulfill, because I guess how you fulfill customer orders, if they were doing Amazon FBM, which means fulfilled by merchant, obviously that's fairly straightforward for you, but what about if customers are doing Amazon FBA, which for anyone who doesn't know what that means, that's when you send your stock into Amazon for Amazon to fulfill for you. Um, so let's talk a bit about what kind of things you need to consider before sending any stock into Amazon.

Sam Anderson: 00:28:53

So, um, we, we, well, so there's, um, every single product seems to have its own rules and regulations and, uh, therefore it's quite difficult to be prescriptive about this because every single type of product will have different sets of rules and regulations to adhere to. From our perspective.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:29:15

That's true. I guess the first thing to say, worth knowing, sorry to interrupt Sam. So I guess that's one thing actually to, to say to people is that if you are looking to send your products into Amazon, have a look about what the requirements are for your specific products. Um, because yes, you're right. Every single thing you send, it's different. So sorry to interrupt Sam, but I thought it was worth letting people know that, whether you're there fulfilling orders themselves or asking someone else to do it, it's worth knowing what the rules are at the outset.

Sam Anderson: 00:29:44

Very much so. And so, um, for the examples that we've got here, where we're sending, um, palletized goods into Amazon for them to be sold on Amazon Prime, we get a very, very prescriptive set of instructions from the customer slash Amazon in terms of how it needs to be presented to them. And, um, we will then, uh, spend quite a lot of time relabeling, rebagging, resealing, um, uh, basically having to rework entirely the product in some instances so that it is, um, the right presentation for them. Uh, so that when they, it is receipted into their warehouse, it works with their own systems and processes. So, um. I mean, obviously working, I have a lot of customers who would love also to, uh, work with you and go work on Amazon, you know, get their products into Amazon as well, because I think selling off of multiple sales channels is, um, is can only really benefit your brand or your sales. Um, I can't see any other disadvantage from it unless, of course, there are some brand restrictions and, um, you do need to speak to someone like yourself, who's an absolute specialist in it, because it is a minefield. And we know that from the specific things that we're asked to do, to send out, every single thing we do is completely different. Um, we now actually got, um, uh, people on board who will specifically deal with product assembly and product free packaging for, to go back into Amazon because it is a job in its own right in many respects. And, um, you need to have, you know, a head on your shoulders to do it because it can be quite specific. So, um, I'm sorry I can't be more generalistic about it, um, because, uh, you know, the examples that we get, that we send out are quite complex. And I think that's because we attract that kind of customer. Um, but, uh, yeah, um, the best thing to do is to leave it to people that know what they're doing. That's really, honestly, the best thing to do.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:32:08

That is really helpful. Thank you. And I know you say it's generalistic, but I think it is still a really helpful response because people often don't realize the requirements for sending things into Amazon. I mean, something that comes up time and time again with my clients is relabeling because sometimes you have to relabel, sometimes you don't have to. And, um, it seems to be luck of the draw. There doesn't actually seem to be some logic behind some of the decisions that are taken. Um, but I know also that sometimes, yes, packaging has to be done or there needs to be additional packaging added. And it is a bit of a nightmare. So I guess my best advice here is to be really clear on what's expected before you make the decision. Okay. Is this something I want to pursue? And I mean, you won't be surprised to hear me say that I do think selling on Amazon is a good option for lots of businesses, not all. Um, I do think getting Amazon to do your fulfillment. 99 percent of the time is a good idea. Again, not, not always, as you'll know, every business is so different, but I think if you are going to consider it, you need to go into it with your eyes really open and know exactly what's required because some people, um, do make the decision, actually, this is a bit too much of a headache. And I think that's fair enough because it is.

Sam Anderson: 00:33:19

Um, and I think that's why we're getting quite a bit of business that way because they, they can then hand it off and go, okay, well, it's someone else's headache now.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:33:31

Yeah, and I actually think that's a good solution. And that's something I often say to people is if you, if you don't feel that's something you want to do, it is worth, you know, looking at maybe getting someone to do that for you because it's, none of it is impossible. It's just, it's just, I think a headache is a really good way to describe it, isn't it? It's just an irritation. So before we finish off Sam, we've covered so much today and thank you so much. Um, but what I would love to talk about, to talk about now, um, and I say it's a bit strange to say something I'd love to talk about, but I would like to know, because obviously you've got so much experience. I think it'd be really useful for our audience to hear some of the mistakes that you see, not to end on a negative point, but I think this would be really good, good practical things that, that everyone can learn from. So can you talk us through, um, as many as you like of the things maybe that we haven't covered already, that you think could be really useful for people to, to take away?

Sam Anderson: 00:34:28

Absolutely. Yes. So I, I, that's no problem at all. I, and. As you say, I do think we have covered quite a few already. So for example, not overstocking and making sure you've got, um, the right amount of stock in place and testing before you, you, you take the plunge. And particularly if you're then going to outsource, um. One other mistake that comes to mind is that customers, when they, uh, can, can dilute their efforts a little bit in, uh, when they're looking to tackle new territories. So for example, we've had customers that had set up, um, with stock in other continents, particularly in the U S and they've, um, done that because they've seen great success in the UK and potentially Europe as well, and fulfilling into Europe, but they want to get to say next day delivery into the States. And we, on nearly every occasion, we've seen that they've found it actually, less costly and easy to just fulfill into those continents directly from one point because they've ended up having, well, two or three businesses that all have very different sort of customer bases and markets and need servicing in different ways. Plus, of course, obviously, there's the accountancy side of it, there's the exchange rate side of it. And, um. I, I think it just, uh, is something that is obviously can be done, um, uh, when, when the time is right. Um, but I think it's making sure that you don't make that decision too soon because I've noticed in lots of companies that have lost a lot of money trying to get into other international markets by setting up fulfillment houses in other parts of the world and then realizing actually they, they, they, they haven't got the resources to run it as a, as another business as effectively. Um, so the other things we, we have actually spoken about for obviously personalization, that's an absolute big one. Um, and then we're also obviously, um, sales channels. Um, we obviously have talked about Amazon and I've also seen people go to the Nth degree and have sell off, in fact, too many channels. So, for example, you might have a pop up shop or a showroom. They might be at trade fairs. They might sell off a group on Wayfair, eBay, as well as Amazon, and their own website. And, and whilst you can't sort of do them down for the effort and enthusiasm, in actual fact, again, they would just really, they needed to nail one thing down really well and then move on to the next. Um, because they were dissipating their efforts and they actually ended up having an overall sort of negative effect on the business because they were exhausted. I mean, it sounds exhausting just thinking about it actually. So, um, so yes, um, I think, you know, um, that, that, that is one thing that we, as well that we've seen, um. Something else that comes to mind is, um, thinking that more product lines mean that you'll get more business. We've had customers that have brought in more and more product lines and it doesn't necessarily equate to more and more sales. Um, and, um, the other thing that does sort of make me think is that sort of just not always hyper branding your packaging because, um, especially in the run up to Christmas, um, even Royal Mail send out white vans, um, and without wanting it to be, sound, you know, unfortunately, people do have sticky fingers. So anything that looks very luxurious and isn't going fully tracked can go awry. So when you, before you start spending a fortune on, you know, hyperbranding your packaging, um, think about obviously your customer base and your sale point, and whether the customer's happy to pay for a full, end to end tracked, signed for service, for that to be delivered. And if that's a yes to all those things, then go for it. But I have seen people do ultra hyperbranding on stuff and then send it second class, and of course it goes missing. So, um, I'm sure there are more, but I, I, those are the ones that came to mind for just now.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:38:59

That's really helpful. Thank you so much, Sam. And I know that you have a download, don't you, with your top 10 mistakes that you see on there. Um, and we'll make sure that that's available somehow, from the show notes for this episode as well. So people will be able to go and I do think that'd be, you know, it's a really useful resource. I've read it and I think, yeah, there was lots of things to consider in there.

Sam Anderson: 00:39:23

Oh, thank you. Yes, absolutely. Make that available for people and no problem whatsoever.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:39:29

Brilliant. Thank you. And before we finish off, I've got one final question and this actually seems a bit mean given what you have shared, um, but we'll try anyway. What would your number one piece of advice be around the logistical side of running an e commerce business?

Sam Anderson: 00:39:45

I would say cost it out. I had quite a few customers come to me and then realize that they've not really built it in. And I suppose this now goes full circle because we started our conversation on that, didn't we? And it is something you need to build it in, uh, to the cost of your business. And, um, I've seen so many smaller e commerce businesses that, um, have forgotten to build in those costs and then want to scale, but can't. Unless they put their price up and obviously they've already got an existing customer base, and then it gets difficult. So definitely building costs when you're going through that initial planning stage, look to the future and look to build that in.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:40:33

That's so helpful. Thank you so much, Sam. Thank you for everything you've shared. I think this is going to be a super useful episode for everyone. So thank you.

Sam Anderson: 00:40:40

Oh, thank you so much for having me, Vicki. Absolute pleasure talking to you. Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg: 00:40:47

Thank you so much for listening right to the end of this episode. Do remember that you can get the full back catalogue and lots of free resources on my website, vickiweinberg. com. Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful. Thank you again and see you next week.